Children refused permission to leave Thailand on a UK passport

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:21 AM, marin said:

But then he has to deal with a visa and Thai immigration. 

Not necessarily, depending on the child's age. As far as I'm aware up to the age of 16 there is no overstay fine - and no requirement to do 90 day reports.

 

Certainly that was my daughter's experience when she was younger and used to regularly enter Thailand on a visa exempt entry (sometimes for up to 3 months at a time) on her UK passport.

 

Admittedly, that is going back a while but as per @BritTim 's post it still holds true.

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, khunPer said:

Yes, as they probably haven't entered Thailand on the UK passport.

 

You can get "same day-service" at many Thai passport offices, if not all, the office I use charge 1,000 baht for a 5-year passport for a child, and 3,000 baht for same day-service. If the mail the new passport with EMS it normally takes ta couple of days to arrive, EMS mail-service costs 40 baht.

 

However, both mom and dad need to be present, when a minor needs a passport, if one parent - or other person - don't have sole custody. To my knowledge you cannot give a power of attorney, but check with the passport office, you are going to use, if they will accept that - they didn't do it in my case when my daughter should have her first passport, so mom and daughter had a trip in vain, and the three of us needed to to do a new trip together.

 

A Thai minor leaving Thailand without the mother might often need a written permission from the mother. That's a letter issued at the local amphor-office. It looks like this (the letter used to give me permission to take my daughter on a trip out of Thailand)...

 

I remember I had this letter before for my kids. 

now they are over 15, do they still need one when travelling with me soon?

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, bbko said:

I'm an American citizen, my wife is Thai and our 15 y/o son has dual citizenship, my son was born in Thailand and has never left Thailand but we're in the process of getting my wife a green card and then all of us will move to the US for few years. My son has both a Thai & US passport.

 

I plan on flying back to the US a few months ahead of my wife and son to get things ready (home, car, work, school).  Would I need to get a letter (like the attached photo) allowing my wife to fly with my son to come and stay with me in the US?

TIA.

Probably not, the letter is - to my knowledge - to protect foreigners to abduct Thai children. I can however not give you a definitely answer.

[khunPer]

34 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I remember I had this letter before for my kids. 

now they are over 15, do they still need one when travelling with me soon?

Probably not. I was travelling alone with my daughter when she was 11 years old and 13 years old, we was never asked for the letter, but I had it second time; first time her mom could follow us to immigration, which the officer might have noticed. My daughter has same surname as me, which might be a benefit, the immigration officer asked her a few questions in Thai language, probably to indirectly check if she was all right with travelling together with me.

 

I'm heading to Europe next month alone with my daughter, and will bring the same old letter, just in case.

 

I however cannot give you a definite answer, if it's still needed.

[brewsterbudgen]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not necessarily, depending on the child's age. As far as I'm aware up to the age of 16 there is no overstay fine - and no requirement to do 90 day reports.

 

Certainly that was my daughter's experience when she was younger and used to regularly enter Thailand on a visa exempt entry (sometimes for up to 3 months at a time) on her UK passport.

 

Admittedly, that is going back a while but as per @BritTim 's post it still holds true.

That's still true.  There are no fines or bans for children who overstay.  However, they still get an 'overstay' stamp in their passport which could prove problematic in the future, should they end up wanting to stay (live) in Thailand long-term and be educated here.  

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

As far as I'm aware up to the age of 16 there is no overstay fine - and no requirement to do 90 day reports.

Children under the age of 15 are not fined for a overstay and up the 18 of are not banned from entering the country for an overstay more than 90 days.

There is still a requirement for 90 day reporting if the they are legally staying in the country. Under the age of 15 they would not fined for not doing them.

[Richard3456]

Just to confirm, I’m travelling with my 9 years old Thai/UK daughter (she has 2 passports for each country) next week to UK. Previously past few times, I always got her mother (we aren’t married nor together) to sign her ID card and give consent for daughter to travel and this was always accepted. 
Has things changed with regards needing an “official” letter? Unfortunately her mother has Covid and is unlikely to be able to make it to the local district office before we travel. Thanks.
 

[BritTim]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not an exit visa , its the Thai parent giving the foreigner father the legal right to take the kid out of Thailand by getting legal/court documents .

   Its to stop child abductions 

So, you are saying, for the mother to take the children out of Thailand, she needs an authorisation for the foreign father to take the child out of Thailand. This still does not seem logical to me.

[BritTim]

13 hours ago, falang1969 said:

We just filled out the UK passport application forms and submitted them via Chiang Mai VFS, never had an "interview", 3 weeks later passports arrived.

 

To be clear, this was for a first passport, not a renewal, correct? That was not true in my own daughter's case, but that was some time ago, and the rules may have changed. Later renewals are as straightforward as for anyone else.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:39 PM, ubonjoe said:

Children under the age of 15 are not fined for a overstay and up the 18 of are not banned from entering the country for an overstay more than 90 days.

There is still a requirement for 90 day reporting if the they are legally staying in the country. Under the age of 15 they would not fined for not doing them.

I stand corrected.

[2009]

How it works is: leave on Thai passport, arrive on UK passport.

 

Then, the reverse when returning to Thailand.

 

[2009]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:08 PM, khunPer said:

Probably not, the letter is - to my knowledge - to protect foreigners to abduct Thai children. I can however not give you a definitely answer.

It's also to protect foreign children from being abducted by Thais.

 

And Thais abducting Thai children.

[2009]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:55 PM, BritTim said:

So, you are saying, for the mother to take the children out of Thailand, she needs an authorisation for the foreign father to take the child out of Thailand. This still does not seem logical to me.

See what happens when a Thai mother tries to leave the country alone with mixed race kid. Lol

 

My EX was held by security until I made it through immigration and was able to verify it was my child too and we were leaving together. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, 2009 said:

See what happens when a Thai mother tries to leave the country alone with mixed race kid. Lol

 

My EX was held by security until I made it through immigration and was able to verify it was my child too and we were leaving together. 

Its to stop one Parent taking  Child out the Country without the other Parents consent , its to stop Child abductions 

[falang1969]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:01 AM, BritTim said:

To be clear, this was for a first passport, not a renewal, correct? That was not true in my own daughter's case, but that was some time ago, and the rules may have changed. Later renewals are as straightforward as for anyone else.

Correct, her FIRST UK passport, she is 2. I was surprised at how easy it was!

[RichardColeman]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:54 PM, Gallstone said:

Thank you. I understand now. 

An expensive new understanding !

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, 2009 said:

How it works is: leave on Thai passport, arrive on UK passport.

 

Then, the reverse when returning to Thailand.

 

More unambiguously:

Leave and re-enter Thailand on Thai passport.

Enter and leave the UK on UK passport.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:31 PM, GinBoy2 said:

I get all that, but it still seems odd.

 

I don't get why the airline refused them at check in.

 

You know better than any of us, the usual flow of things is that you show the passport at check in that grants you entry into the country of destination, either a passport of that country or a visa to that country.

 

It's usually only at immigration where a Thai passport, or a foreign passport with an entry stamp is shown.

 

I along with thousands of us have done this when traveling with our kids out of BKK.

 

I've never come across airline counter agents acting as first line immigration

Airlines always act as a first line for immigration. They have responsibility for the passengers to be allowed entry to the final destination.
 

They also need to be as sure as they can be that passengers who checkin are going to pass through immigration control on the way out, as if the passengers are refused exit the airline has the problem of extracting the baggage that has been loaded so potentially delaying the flight and incurring fines from the airport.

 

You also seem to have missed the point that while you only show 1 passport at immigration control you need to show both passports (assuming you are swapping in flight) to the airline checkin desk. 1 that enables exit from a country and 1 that allows entry at your final destination.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:21 PM, statman78 said:

Thanks for the information!  Am I correct to assume that the airline tickets for his wife and son should be booked using the US passport numbers?

I have never had to use my passport number when booking a ticket (hundreds of flights). I can enter my passport number into my frequent flyer profile if I wish.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:54 AM, LukKrueng said:

Happened to me on more than 1 occasion that when I showed airline check in staff only the passport that will allow me entry to the destination country they also demanded to see the passport with which I entered the country I'm about to leave. Can't remember if it happened in Thailand though.

That is standard procedure for any airline in any country. They are responsible for the first check that you have the correct document (usually a passport) to exit the country you are in and the correct documents (these do not have to be the same) to enter the country you are going to.

 

Airlines are being fined for transporting passengers who are rejected entry to a country for incorrect documents.

 

Airlines are in business to make a profit.

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Airlines are being fined for transporting passengers who are rejected entry to a country for incorrect documents

That part is correct. The airline will be fined by the destination country. However, if a passenger checks in while on overstay in the departure country - that has nothing to do with the airline. They are not supposed to check how one arrived at the airport for departure and I'm pretty sure many members of this forum can attest to the fact that the airline staff did nothing about their overstay. That's up to immigration.

I remember being asked for arrival passport when checking in to a flight to Thailand (using a different passport). On my last flight back to Thailand from another country all I showed was the passport with which I'll enter Thailand and no one asked for the other passport.

[2009]

20 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its to stop one Parent taking  Child out the Country without the other Parents consent , its to stop Child abductions 

I thought that's what I said.

[2009]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

More unambiguously:

Leave and re-enter Thailand on Thai passport.

Enter and leave the UK on UK passport.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

You do a good "Explain It Like I'm 5"

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

That part is correct. The airline will be fined by the destination country. However, if a passenger checks in while on overstay in the departure country - that has nothing to do with the airline. They are not supposed to check how one arrived at the airport for departure and I'm pretty sure many members of this forum can attest to the fact that the airline staff did nothing about their overstay. That's up to immigration.

I remember being asked for arrival passport when checking in to a flight to Thailand (using a different passport). On my last flight back to Thailand from another country all I showed was the passport with which I'll enter Thailand and no one asked for the other passport.

You are reading more into my post than I put into it. So raising straw men to shoot down that was not there.

I sad nothing about the airline being required to check how a passenger arrived at an airport. (Straw man 1)

 

I said nothing about a passenger having a passport with and overstay (straw man 2)

 

I did say that the airline (usually) checks that you have the documents that allow you to pass immigration on the way out. As you know a passport with an overstay when presented to Thai immigration at an international airport for an international flight allows you to pass immigration on the way out. That immigration will fine you (if over 1 day overstay) and if over the limits also ban you from returning does not stop you from leaving.

However not having documents that show immigration when you arrived or how you are legally in the country certainly can stop you from passing immigration.

 

Different countries have different exit requirements.

[Inter Student Thailand]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:20 PM, ubonjoe said:

Unless the children were born here and there showed they were not Thai nationals the must leave on a Thai passport.

They cannot leave on a UK passport without a entry stamp in it unless their birth certificates show both parents are from the UK.

They can easily get a Thai passport. But you will need to do a document with your consent will be needed to get the passports. The parental consent can be done at the Thai embassy in the UK.

This is the form that can be used. https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/zE6021nSnu/เอกสาร/หนังสือให้ความยินยิม.pdf

 

 

3 years ago I took my son to the UK without my wife. As he was 3, he only had a British passport and not a Thai one. They called my wife at immigration departures to check I wasn't stealing him, and he was allowed to leave on his UK Passport. He was born here, so not sure the information above is correct. 

 

When we returned, he had no Thai visa and the UK Passport. The immigration officer said "does he need a visa or not?". I answered no, they said ok, and through he went. 

 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Inter Student Thailand said:

3 years ago I took my son to the UK without my wife. As he was 3, he only had a British passport and not a Thai one. They called my wife at immigration departures to check I wasn't stealing him, and he was allowed to leave on his UK Passport. He was born here, so not sure the information above is correct. 

 

When we returned, he had no Thai visa and the UK Passport. The immigration officer said "does he need a visa or not?". I answered no, they said ok, and through he went. 

The problem in the OP's case was not Thai Immigration. It was the airline that refused to check him in. I have known others who had your experience, but apparently you need to be aware that the airline might have different policies.

[kwonitoy]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:49 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

That is standard procedure for any airline in any country. They are responsible for the first check that you have the correct document (usually a passport) to exit the country you are in and the correct documents (these do not have to be the same) to enter the country you are going to.

 

Airlines are being fined for transporting passengers who are rejected entry to a country for incorrect documents.

 

Airlines are in business to make a profit.

Airlines are the first check for correct visas, but they don't always get it right.

 

Some years ago I was travelling to work in Dallas. Flew from Bangkok to Frankfurt, Frankfurt to Dallas.

In Frankfurt after checking in, at the boarding area they did an additional passport check for correct visas to enter the US.

I'm a Canadian and do not need a visa to enter the US. Boarding agent checks my passport, no US visa starts making a fuss. Supervisor comes over checks my passport says to me no visa you cannot enter the US.

I try explain that I've been to US dozens of times and work there and have never had a visa. I did point out my TN work stamp but they didn't know what it was so ignored it.

The Supervisor went to get her boss, and that guy took my passport and disappeared for what seemed a very long time.

When he came back handed my passport back and explained to the gate agents and the Supervisor that I don't need a US visa as a Canadian.

Luftstansa Airlines by the way