Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[candide]

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

don't sound so shocked. The same FED and same dems have history of doing exactly what you said.

 That is the problem here. It is not the first time they acted dishonestly trying to nail Trump on flimsy or flat out made up evidence. You know this, don't make me put up links again to FBI bad behaviour several years ago when they first tried to remove Trump.

 

What is exactly the history of the FBI conspiring with the Dems and federal judges?

The Russia probe has been audited by the IG, he found a flaw on a minor subset of it, but also declared that the Russia probe has been properly predicated. The Durham investigation found nothing. It also did not found the Russia probe was not properly predicated.

So what is it exactly?

[candide]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Looks like it's your turn to get real.

So what is real, according to you?

- Trump took classified document to MAL, had his lawyer sign a paper stating all documents but still kept a significant amount of them?

Or alternatively one or more of the following?

- the FBI planted documents (funny, you seem to have forgotten about it despite previous posts)

- the documents have been declassified, despite no evidence of it,

[Eric Loh]

53 minutes ago, riclag said:

Who am i to doubt or cast dispersion on the experts that Politifact subscribed too in describing the rights afforded to the office of the Potus to declassify/ classify with out process.

Im comfortable with the office holding these  constitutional powers!  

Politifact's point of view was based on a particular case and can't be compare apple to apple. In this case, Trump is no longer President and he has possession of tangible copies of secret national security documents that will implicate him to a host of legal problems.  

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Tell me how.  Are you a supporter who believes the FBI found no evidence, or one who believes that they planted it?  The investigation is on-going and will not be played out in the purview of the public, with pundits trying the case.

 

More republicans distancing themselves and calling Trump out as well as his supporters

 

Rep. Adam Kinzinger Slams Trump, His 'Creepy' Supporters' Reaction To FBI Search (msn.com)

 

“Donald Trump and his supporters have become quite creepy in how they’re acting and what they’re threatening,” Kinzinger said, referring to a message Trump reportedly had conveyed to Attorney General Merrick Garland last week.

 

A person familiar with the exchange told The New York Times the message was: “The country is on fire. What can I do to reduce the heat?”

“I don’t know what it means,” Kinzinger said. “Only Donald Trump in his own head knows what that means. But it does strike me as something like, you know, what you hear from the mafia. ‘Hey, if you want your store to be secure, give us money. We’ll make sure you’re secure,’ when in fact there was never a threat in the first place.’”

I'm a supporter of fair hearings. If Trump has broken any laws and goes to trial, then a fair one is all anyone can ask for. The problem is that this anti-Trumpery has been going on relentlessly for 6+ years with high visibility and prejudice to the point that even some Democrats seem not trust their own government agencies now. 

 

As part of this so-called "bipartisan" J6 hearing committee, Kinzinger should be keeping his verdicts and "creepy" opinions to himself, at least until his kangaroo court is over and dismantled. Maybe he's noisy now because he knows he's jobless and even quit last Friday without even contesting his seat. Cheyney is most likely gone too. 

 

 

[Berkshire]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'm a supporter of fair hearings.

 

No, you are not.  As clearly demonstrated by your endless stream of bias comments and predictable "likes."  I do wish Trump cult members would be more honest.  This is a freakin anonymous forum, for Christ's sake.  Just admit you don't care about truth, facts, or reality.  You worship Trump....end of story.  If Trump receives a fair hearing and is convicted, you will cry bloody murder.  You know this to be true.

[LosLobo]

 "In 2016, Trump promised to enforce laws on classified material"

And non-one is above the law!

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'm a supporter of fair hearings. If Trump has broken any laws and goes to trial, then a fair one is all anyone can ask for. The problem is that this anti-Trumpery has been going on relentlessly for 6+ years with high visibility and prejudice to the point that even some Democrats seem not trust their own government agencies now. 

 

As part of this so-called "bipartisan" J6 hearing committee, Kinzinger should be keeping his verdicts and "creepy" opinions to himself, at least until his kangaroo court is over and dismantled. Maybe he's noisy now because he knows he's jobless and even quit last Friday without even contesting his seat. Cheyney is most likely gone too. 

 

 

If Trump is indicted you’ll cry foul.

If Trump is sent to trial you’ll cry foul.

If Trump is convicted you’ll cry foul.

 

Feel free to pin this comment.

 

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

Who am i to doubt or cast dispersion on the experts that Politifact subscribed too in describing the rights afforded to the office of the Potus to declassify/ classify with out process.

Im comfortable with the office holding these  constitutional powers!  

I was involved in declassification. I don't need to 'research' or find a 'link;.

 

We had in-house counsel at the agency, and the White House and Nat Sec Staff has counsel. They lead everyone through the process.

 

It is NOT instantaneous. There is a protocol, and there are markers, because once 'declassified', the handling of it matters as little as how one handles a napkin.

 

45 lied. Repeatedly. He is flailing now, because his lies show bad intent, and will be used to prosecute him.

 

To repeat, because some people refuse to get it or are incapable of getting it....

 

A request is made to declassify a doc. Relevant agency heads are asked to see if anything critical would be revealed. They make changes or redactions and sign off. The headings are then removed from the docs. "DECLASSIFIED" is stamped on the doc, and it is initialed by counsel. At that point it no longer need be handled any differently than a used napkin. It could be placed in a Macs Happy Meal with no security violation.

 

The docs at MaL were NOT declassified. 45 lied. He was asked to return them, as he had no right to hold them. He returned some, then lied and said he returned everything. That shows bad intent, and suggests he intended to monetize them.

 

In the search, according to the released inventory, there were TS and TS/SCI, and perhaps other things too sensitive to note. The inventory would be unlikely to note if RD docs were present, because those are so serious no one would want it noted, lest there be more hidden at MaL.

 

ANYBODY who held the docs noted in the inventory would already be cuffed and perpwalked, because the violations are so dangerous. That 45 isn't yet behind bars shows he is being given far more understanding than he should.

 

Get it? He did not declassify the stuff. He had no right to have it. He lied about giving it all back.

 

Jail the traitor.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

I was involved in declassification. I don't need to 'research' or find a 'link;.

 

We had in-house counsel at the agency, and the White House and Nat Sec Staff has counsel. They lead everyone through the process.

 

It is NOT instantaneous. There is a protocol, and there are markers, because once 'declassified', the handling of it matters as little as how one handles a napkin.

 

45 lied. Repeatedly. He is flailing now, because his lies show bad intent, and will be used to prosecute him.

 

To repeat, because some people refuse to get it or are incapable of getting it....

 

A request is made to declassify a doc. Relevant agency heads are asked to see if anything critical would be revealed. They make changes or redactions and sign off. The headings are then removed from the docs. "DECLASSIFIED" is stamped on the doc, and it is initialed by counsel. At that point it no longer need be handled any differently than a used napkin. It could be placed in a Macs Happy Meal with no security violation.

 

The docs at MaL were NOT declassified. 45 lied. He was asked to return them, as he had no right to hold them. He returned some, then lied and said he returned everything. That shows bad intent, and suggests he intended to monetize them.

 

In the search, according to the released inventory, there were TS and TS/SCI, and perhaps other things too sensitive to note. The inventory would be unlikely to note if RD docs were present, because those are so serious no one would want it noted, lest there be more hidden at MaL.

 

ANYBODY who held the docs noted in the inventory would already be cuffed and perpwalked, because the violations are so dangerous. That 45 isn't yet behind bars shows he is being given far more understanding than he should.

 

Get it? He did not declassify the stuff. He had no right to have it. He lied about giving it all back.

 

Jail the traitor.

 

I don't think it suggests that he intended to monetize them. It's important to keep in mind that Trump is not entirely rational, to put it weakly. He is consumed with rage over his election loss. I mean, it's been 21 months and he still won't shut up about it.

[Slip]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I'm a supporter of fair hearings. If Trump has broken any laws and goes to trial, then a fair one is all anyone can ask for. The problem is that this anti-Trumpery has been going on relentlessly for 6+ years with high visibility and prejudice to the point that even some Democrats seem not trust their own government agencies now. 

 

As part of this so-called "bipartisan" J6 hearing committee, Kinzinger should be keeping his verdicts and "creepy" opinions to himself, at least until his kangaroo court is over and dismantled. Maybe he's noisy now because he knows he's jobless and even quit last Friday without even contesting his seat. Cheyney is most likely gone too. 

 

 

You have cleverly couched a load of old nonsense with some sense.  Your first two sentences are perfectly reasonable, as is your last.  The rest though, utter nonsense.  Still, I think it's an improvement.

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Slip said:

You have cleverly couched a load of old nonsense with some sense.  Your first two sentences are perfectly reasonable, as is your last.  The rest though, utter nonsense.  Still, I think it's an improvement.

Dead on, thank you.

[placeholder]

35 minutes ago, Slip said:

You have cleverly couched a load of old nonsense with some sense.  Your first two sentences are perfectly reasonable, as is your last.  The rest though, utter nonsense.  Still, I think it's an improvement.

A sentence like this is obvous bloviation. 

 

"The problem is that this anti-Trumpery has been going on relentlessly for 6+ years with high visibility and prejudice to the point that even some Democrats seem not trust their own government agencies now. "

 

What percentage of Democrats. In a country with 10's of millions of them, what does "some Democrats" signify?

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, Slip said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

No, you are not.  As clearly demonstrated by your endless stream of bias comments and predictable "likes."  I do wish Trump cult members would be more honest.  This is a freakin anonymous forum, for Christ's sake.  Just admit you don't care about truth, facts, or reality.  You worship Trump....end of story.  If Trump receives a fair hearing and is convicted, you will cry bloody murder.  You know this to be true.

The cultish behaviour, majority of bias and prejudgment comes from the usual pack of obvious anti Trump posters on here. Say what you want but don't try to dictate to me what I care about.

 

I am prepared to wait for this all to unravel - and I wish everyone else was too - there are still far too many unknowns and conflicts of information about this FBI raid for anyone to know enough to make a fair conclusion but there are too many in a mad rush to get the noose ready, just like a lynch mob.

 

Now, if it comes about that Trump is charged with a crime that is punishable and if he goes to trial where he actually receives a fair hearing and judgement, then I won't have a problem with that. 

 

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If Trump is indicted you’ll cry foul.

If Trump is sent to trial you’ll cry foul.

If Trump is convicted you’ll cry foul.

 

Feel free to pin this comment.

 

Quite a foul post.

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Now, if it comes about that Trump is charged with a crime that is punishable and if he goes to trial where he actually receives a fair hearing and judgement, then I won't have a problem with that. 

 

Who will judge if its been a fair hearing and judgement if it goes to trial for you not to have a problem with the outcome?

[LosLobo]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

The cultish behaviour, majority of bias and prejudgment comes from the usual pack of obvious anti Trump posters on here. Say what you want but don't try to dictate to me what I care about.

 

I am prepared to wait for this all to unravel - and I wish everyone else was too - there are still far too many unknowns and conflicts of information about this FBI raid for anyone to know enough to make a fair conclusion but there are too many in a mad rush to get the noose ready, just like a lynch mob.

 

Now, if it comes about that Trump is charged with a crime that is punishable and if he goes to trial where he actually receives a fair hearing and judgement, then I won't have a problem with that. 

 

 

 

"Just like a lynch mob".....like this one?

Jan. 6 hearing: What did Trump say when mob chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’? | National Post

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Who will judge if its been a fair hearing and judgement if it goes to trial for you not to have a problem with the outcome?

A fair judge of course.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

A fair judge of course.

So not a jury of his peers, civilians like the Donald himself. A judge makes the call....hmmm

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

"Just like a lynch mob".....like this one?

Jan. 6 hearing: What did Trump say when mob chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’? | National Post

Certain similarities I suppose.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

So not a jury of his peers, civilians like the Donald himself. A judge makes the call....hmmm

Hmmm,

[ballpoint]

Six years ago, August 16th 2016, Trump said:

"In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information... ...No one will be above the law".

Happy anniversary.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A fair judge of course.

Yes of course a fair judge and a fair jury but thats not what I asked?

 

You said:

34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Now, if it comes about that Trump is charged with a crime that is punishable and if he goes to trial where he actually receives a fair hearing and judgement, then I won't have a problem with that. 

Again how would you classify the fairness, as it appears its on your terms

[Chomper Higgot]

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Quite a foul post.

I’ve invited you to pin it.

 

You should.

 

I have.

[riclag]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I was involved in declassification. I don't need to 'research' or find a 'link;.

 

We had in-house counsel at the agency, and the White House and Nat Sec Staff has counsel. They lead everyone through the process.

 

It is NOT instantaneous. There is a protocol, and there are markers, because once 'declassified', the handling of it matters as little as how one handles a napkin.

 

45 lied. Repeatedly. He is flailing now, because his lies show bad intent, and will be used to prosecute him.

 

To repeat, because some people refuse to get it or are incapable of getting it....

 

A request is made to declassify a doc. Relevant agency heads are asked to see if anything critical would be revealed. They make changes or redactions and sign off. The headings are then removed from the docs. "DECLASSIFIED" is stamped on the doc, and it is initialed by counsel. At that point it no longer need be handled any differently than a used napkin. It could be placed in a Macs Happy Meal with no security violation.

 

The docs at MaL were NOT declassified. 45 lied. He was asked to return them, as he had no right to hold them. He returned some, then lied and said he returned everything. That shows bad intent, and suggests he intended to monetize them.

 

In the search, according to the released inventory, there were TS and TS/SCI, and perhaps other things too sensitive to note. The inventory would be unlikely to note if RD docs were present, because those are so serious no one would want it noted, lest there be more hidden at MaL.

 

ANYBODY who held the docs noted in the inventory would already be cuffed and perpwalked, because the violations are so dangerous. That 45 isn't yet behind bars shows he is being given far more understanding than he should.

 

Get it? He did not declassify the stuff. He had no right to have it. He lied about giving it all back.

 

Jail the traitor.

 

I get it ,your a expert with a opinion. It seems now all the experts are coming out lately with conflicting opinions!

Ill stick with Grenell and Patel opinion and facts 
 

Kash Patel former security advisor risks legal jeopardy imop by concurring publicly the docs were declassified  before he left the WH. Rick Grenell former DNI as well.” There is no approval process”.

https://sports.yahoo.com/could-trump-declassify-whim-does-235027653.html

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-allies-declassified-mar-lago-231609255.html

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

I get it ,your a expert with a opinion. It seems now all the experts are coming out lately with conflicting opinions!

Ill stick with Grenell and Patel opinion and facts 
 

Kash Patel former security advisor risks legal jeopardy imop by concurring publicly the docs were declassified  before he left the WH. Rick Grenell former DNI as well.” There is no approval process”.

https://sports.yahoo.com/could-trump-declassify-whim-does-235027653.html

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-allies-declassified-mar-lago-231609255.html

Former CIA director says Trump ally's claim that he could instantly declassify documents is 'pretty much BS'

"If presidents want to declassify, they have to follow that process which basically requires that it be referred to the agencies that are responsible for classifying that material,"

Panetta's comments came after Kash Patel, a former Pentagon official under Trump, claimed that Trump had declassified all the documents he took to Mar-a-Lago.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-raid-claim-instantly-declassify-documents-is-bs-leon-panetta-2022-8

 

 

[placeholder]

49 minutes ago, riclag said:

I get it ,your a expert with a opinion. It seems now all the experts are coming out lately with conflicting opinions!

Ill stick with Grenell and Patel opinion and facts 
 

Kash Patel former security advisor risks legal jeopardy imop by concurring publicly the docs were declassified  before he left the WH. Rick Grenell former DNI as well.” There is no approval process”.

https://sports.yahoo.com/could-trump-declassify-whim-does-235027653.html

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-allies-declassified-mar-lago-231609255.html

If the only evidence there is is that someone says so, then that's not valid evidence at all. That's why such decisions by the President have to be memorialized.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 pages and there are still people who think Trump is innocent.

 

I really wander what must happen before his diehard supporters admit that he did something seriously wrong, and he should be prosecuted.

 

I.e. if the documents would include details of current nuclear weapons, would that be important enough to prosecute him? Or was it still just a little mistake with all those papers? 

What must he do before many of his supporters wake up? 

 

[candide]

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

35 pages and there are still people who think Trump is innocent.

 

I really wander what must happen before his diehard supporters admit that he did something seriously wrong, and he should be prosecuted.

 

I.e. if the documents would include details of current nuclear weapons, would that be important enough to prosecute him? Or was it still just a little mistake with all those papers? 

What must he do before many of his supporters wake up? 

 

It's hopeless.

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I really wander what must happen before his diehard supporters admit that he did something seriously wrong, and he should be prosecuted.

Ain't gonna happen, they have it covered already. 

 

If something goes awry they blame the vermin that surround him.  Kellyanne leads the charge on that one with the book she put out a few months ago: he is the victim (but of course!) and the negative stuff is the fault of the bottom feeders attracted to him.

 

Myself, I can't get over how in his very first polling, a few days after the Day of the Descending Escalator, he was at app. 35% and has not gone below that since.  Consider the magic his announcement worked the moment he went from reality show buffoon to candidate.  In the future poli-sci students are going to continuously dissect that speech in search of clues.

 

 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Me I've never worked at the White House. I'm assuming you have personal knowledge of how the documents are stored at the White House. Or could it be you're making it up as you go. 

I have personal experience working with classified, personal knowledge of how many important files are stored, and a typical amount of experience with cardboard boxes.  They're very widely used for storing documents.  Since your post seem to suggest that something was amiss because documents were kept in cardboard boxes, I can assure you that it is a common practice.

 

Do you have evidence or experience that indicates that classified documents are not stored in cardboard boxes?