Living in Thailand vs living in America?

[RamenRaven]

16 hours ago, habuspasha said:

I have lived in Manhattan for almost fifty years (at various pay-grades, but always happily and comfortably).  Now as I start my retirement I hope to split my time between Manhattan and Thailand.  For me, the question is: what kind of Thailand?  My GF prefers Hua Hin; I like the Andaman.  I could never afford beachfront or a half million US for a sinking condo in BK.  I'm fortunate in having a nice subsidized apartment in Manhattan and Medicare.  But every place has its compensations.  NY salaries rise to meet rent costs; Thai gov't jobs cover medical needs.  The cost of living in Thailand is a third of U.S.  There are always work-arounds if you want something enough.  Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia is a horrible disgrace--We Americans  should be shamed, perhaps especially those of us who live so much more comfortably.  But Kensington Avenue is not the U.S.--anymore than Fifth Avenue.

One-third?

 

Manhattan has to be at least 10 times more expensive than Thailand, unless you're living a very posh lifestyle in Thailand.

 

[habuspasha]

I compared Thailand with the U.S., not Manhattan.  I was rounding off the figure of 38% which I saw recently in global comparisons of countries.  Manhattan might be close to 10 times the cost of Thailand is some areas like rent (average in Manhattan now $5,000) and labor (massage, construction?).  Good dental work is 4-5 time more.  Food varies enormously.  I recently paid more for a mango in Patong than I do in Manhattan. (Actually my GF did so it wasn't the full falang mark-up.)

[Damrongsak]

6 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Yes immigrants  seem to love  the USA. But people from developed countries don't want  to live there.

Well, we were pretty much a nation of immigrants for a long time.  "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore." and all that. 

[Damrongsak]

20 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

First, you have would have to have the option of living in both places.

 

Second, you would need to be able to afford living in the USA or both places.

 

That being said, if you can afford it, both locations have good and bad points

 

I enjoyed Thailand a heck of lot more when I was young. 

...

^ Indeed.  Always thought I would retire in Thailand,  When I came back to the US in 1980 after 3 years, I noted how people seemed crazy, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  Now I'm close to 70, so I prefer a quiet, peaceful life style.  We own houses and have relatives in both places, so that's no problem.

 

That said, I'm planning to visit Thailand for 60 days on Sept/Oct.  Maybe you'll read about me in the crazy farang news, LOL.  Or search for old farang Loei.  555

[cdemundo]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The land of the free...

 

I see lots of these, they are funny.

Jay Leno had a regular feature on his show doing this, nothing new about it.

No doubt they are selective, a kid who knows the answers doesn't make for a good video.

 

I am guessing you could do similar interviews with young people in a lot of countries.

Let's ask some young people in any country questions about politics, science, geography the results would probably be similar.

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I see lots of these, they are funny.

Jay Leno had a regular feature on his show doing this, nothing new about it.

No doubt they are selective, a kid who knows the answers doesn't make for a good video.

 

I am guessing you could do similar interviews with young people in a lot of countries.

Let's ask some young people in any country questions about politics, science, geography the results would probably be similar.

There are also some very disturbing statistics about the knowledge of many Americans.

"About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent."

Survey Reveals Geographic Illiteracy (nationalgeographic.com)

 

 

[cdemundo]

 

This Cadillac ad didn't seem to last long, it overestimated the percentage of Americans who bought into this view of life.

You hear people talk about the "work ethic" and politicians like to talk about "hard-working families".

Fact is a lot of people recognize the shortcomings of the "American way of life" as expressed in the Cadillac ad.

The idea not just of Work but Hard Work as an essentially good thing (and an end in itself)  has been used to some people's advantage at the expense of others. Even still, a lot of Americans are content and make the most of the system.

[Damrongsak]

18 hours ago, Iamfalang said:

Opportunity?  America, all day and twice on Saturdays.   Jokers can make $100,000 a year and some over $300,000 without being too smart.   In Thailand, $12,000 a year for falangs.

..........

grow up in America, work in America, get rich in America and then see if you are rich enough to enjoy a nice retirement.  ...

Yeah, I came back in 1980 because I didn't know if I could eke out a living in Thailand for the two of us.  Back then in my third year I did make $12K a year plus benefits and per diem.  A big step up from $250/mo with the Peace Corps.

 

I never made $100 K a year, maybe 70-80 but that was 15-25 years ago.  Invested, it's cushion for the future.  My Mom lived to be 92 and was in a nursing home for about 3 years.  Her care & etc. was about $65 - $70K per year.  But she planned for it and had plenty.  She was a bean counter (accountant).

 

So Thailand is/was/can be a lot more fun. 

 

[KIngsofisaan]

1 hour ago, Damrongsak said:

^ Indeed.  Always thought I would retire in Thailand,  When I came back to the US in 1980 after 3 years, I noted how people seemed crazy, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  Now I'm close to 70, so I prefer a quiet, peaceful life style.  We own houses and have relatives in both places, so that's no problem.

 

That said, I'm planning to visit Thailand for 60 days on Sept/Oct.  Maybe you'll read about me in the crazy farang news, LOL.  Or search for old farang Loei.  555

I have been giving some serious thought about only 90 Days in Thailand.

 

November to January

 

Lots to ponder

[pomchop]

57 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There are also some very disturbing statistics about the knowledge of many Americans.

"About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent."

Survey Reveals Geographic Illiteracy (nationalgeographic.com)

 

 

over 50% of american adults read at 8th grade or below level....makes for easy pickings for con men several of which seem to have a loyal following recently

[bendejo]

18 hours ago, 2baht said:

So, Americans need guns to protect themselves from Americans with guns? Sad, will they ever overcome the cowboy mentality?

It's actually getting worse with this new idea that guns are for promoting the ideas of certain leaders.  Some MAGA types are getting itchy, asking

'When do we get to use the guns?’  I'm not a follower of either political party and have my qualms with both and it is definitely a worst of two evils situation.  Just who they will be shooting at I don't know, and they don't either. 

But living conditions.  I have moved back to the US due primarily to health reasons. Decades ago when I started traveling in Third World countries I realized it would take a long time for these places to move up to developed world living conditions, whereas the developed world could become like them overnight: e.g. the water supply crosses pipes with the sewage, the electrical power infrastructure is crippled, etc.  Drinking tap water nearly anywhere in the continental 48 is a bad idea, so "don't drink the water" is longer just for travelers going abroad.

When the Covid thing hit in 2020 suddenly supermarket shelves were bare, hospitals had to turn people away.  Also that year the wildfires in the western part of the country were so bad the sky was dark for more than a week.  The smoke was evident thousands of miles away.

These pics are the same spot, same time of day (app. 3pm), 1 week apart:

 

 

My point is the developed world is no longer a refuge from the hazards of the less-developed world.  But in the US there is a 99.9% chance that when I cross the street at a STOP sign the approaching cars will stop.    On the other hand if police stop me for a moving violation it will affect my driving record, car insurance, and I may even get my driving license suspended, as opposed to simply putting some cash in the brown pocket.

 

 

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There are also some very disturbing statistics about the knowledge of many Americans.

"About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent."

Thirty years ago, and before, if you asked the average American (who was not in politics, government or the press) the name of Speaker of the House, or Senate majority leader, or even vice president you would not get a valid answer.  So can it be said that Americans are smarter now? 

(how's that for Pollyanna perspective?)

 

 

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There are also some very disturbing statistics about the knowledge of many Americans.

"About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent."

Survey Reveals Geographic Illiteracy (nationalgeographic.com)

 

 

My most astounding "ignorance in America" stories are almost identical to each other and feature not youngsters but Department of Motor Vehicle employees.

In both stories the DMV employee told the person that they need to have an US driver's license in order to apply for a driver's license in their new state.  The two stories were about individuals with New Mexico and Indiana driver's licenses that the DMV employees in the new state did not recognize as belonging to the 50 United States.

 

[KIngsofisaan]

14 minutes ago, bendejo said:

It's actually getting worse with this new idea that guns are for promoting the ideas of certain leaders.  Some MAGA types are getting itchy, asking

'When do we get to use the guns?’  I'm not a follower of either political party and have my qualms with both and it is definitely a worst of two evils situation.  Just who they will be shooting at I don't know, and they don't either. 

But living conditions.  I have moved back to the US due primarily to health reasons. Decades ago when I started traveling in Third World countries I realized it would take a long time for these places to move up to developed world living conditions, whereas the developed world could become like them overnight: e.g. the water supply crosses pipes with the sewage, the electrical power infrastructure is crippled, etc.  Drinking tap water nearly anywhere in the continental 48 is a bad idea, so "don't drink the water" is longer just for travelers going abroad.

When the Covid thing hit in 2020 suddenly supermarket shelves were bare, hospitals had to turn people away.  Also that year the wildfires in the western part of the country were so bad the sky was dark for more than a week.  The smoke was evident thousands of miles away.

These pics are the same spot, same time of day (app. 3pm), 1 week apart:

 

 

My point is the developed world is no longer a refuge from the hazards of the less-developed world.  But in the US there is a 99.9% chance that when I cross the street at a STOP sign the approaching cars will stop.    On the other hand if police stop me for a moving violation it will affect my driving record, car insurance, and I may even get my driving license suspended, as opposed to simply putting some cash in the brown pocket.

 

 

"My point is the developed world is no longer a refuge from the hazards of the less-developed world..."

 

The developed world is full of places you could never, ever afford to live or even visit. Maybe none of us.

 

So comparing the developed world to the less developed is just foolish.

 

From my developed world, things are a hell of a lot better, than my less developed world

 

Fire, Ambulance, Police 1 mile away

 

Hospital 2 miles away

 

All stores, banks, restaurants 2 miles away

 

Never been affected by crime, police falsely blocking the road or arresting me for no reason.

 

VA health care, maximum set waiting period of 15 minutes at my location

 

Beach with zero plastic or trash in the water

 

No psychotic traffic or drivers

 

No one burning fields or trash out in the open

 

Clean water

 

It all depends where you live in the developed world. If you chose a <deleted>-hole, that is what you got.

 

But to say the developed world in no longer a refuge from the third world? Well is sure as heck is where I live.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by KIngsofisaan

[KIngsofisaan]

10 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Thirty years ago, and before, if you asked the average American (who was not in politics, government or the press) the name of Speaker of the House, or Senate majority leader, or even vice president you would not get a valid answer.  So can it be said that Americans are smarter now? 

(how's that for Pollyanna perspective?)

 

 

Disagree 100%

 

30 years ago they taught US Government and Civics in High School

[pomchop]

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

over 50% of american adults read at 8th grade or below level....makes for easy pickings for con men several of which seem to have a loyal following recently

another "fun" fact about americans....guess i am lucky my grandmother taught me don't buy things you can't afford just because you want them...learn to tell difference between what you want and what you need...of course not just americans head over heels in debt....the fiscal control of a 5 y.o.  

• The average American had $5,525 in credit card debt in 2021.
• Credit card debt is the second largest debt source behind mortgage debt.
• Alaska has the most credit card debt of any state with $6,617 in 2020 and $7,089 in 2021.
• Iowa has the least debt, with a balance of $4,289 in 2020 and $4,587 in 2021.
• Generation X has the largest amount of credit card debt at $7,236..

 

[Iamfalang]

9 minutes ago, pomchop said:

• he average American had $5,525 in credit card debt in 2021.
• Credit card debt is the second largest debt source behind mortgage debt.
• Alaska has the most credit card debt of any state with $6,617 in 2020 and $7,089 in 2021.
• Iowa has the least debt, with a balance of $4,289 in 2020 and $4,587 in 2021.
• Generation X has the largest amount of credit card debt at $7,236..

90% of my friends OWN a house (no mortgage) worth over $500,000.   So, yea, maybe they carry some CC debt.  Let's put that number at around 50 people.  

 

Most also have other ASSETS.....

 

and I'm sure none of them have savings less than $10,000 and Retirement funds less than 300,000 or maybe even 400,000

 

you gotta see the whole picture.

 

Of course, there will always be the poor..................but I was lower middle-class.  

Edited August 14, 2022 by Iamfalang

[pomchop]

7 minutes ago, Iamfalang said:

90% of my friends OWN a house (no mortgage) worth over $500,000.   So, yea, maybe they carry some CC debt.  Let's put that number at around 50 people.  

 

Most also have other ASSETS.....

 

and I'm sure none of them have savings less than $10,000 and Retirement funds less than 300,000 or maybe even 400,000

 

you gotta see the whole picture.

 

Of course, there will always be the poor..................but I was lower middle-class.  

agree that most are not idiots but unfortunately many are in way over their head trying to keep up with some image they seem to have of what they need so much that they take out a 20% interest cc "loan" to get it....proud to say i have never paid one penny in credit card interest EVER..use credit card for convenience not for "loans".

[wwest5829]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:03 AM, Sticky Rice Balls said:

Biden beat him by record votes in 2020.....speaking of 10 yrs hes in a bit of trouble as well....

My "crystal ball" is a bit cloudy but I do fear unless the underlying economic stress on the American working class is addressed, the madness will continue. The wealth gap reflects the unsustainability of the direction over the last 50+- years (actions/policies of both major political parties).

[wwest5829]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:24 AM, Sparktrader said:

West is rubbish.

Yo! Go easy there ... name sensitive. 555

[wwest5829]

On 8/14/2022 at 4:12 AM, Jingthing said:

What income do you expect to have in the U.S.?

Let's say 100K a year which sounds like a lot from a Thailand perspective but it would not be good in Manhattan but would be quite good in nice places like Asheville North Carolina. 

My reality upon coming up to retire in 2011? Can I afford a comfortable working middle class sustainable monthly retirement budget of $2400.00USD a month. It seemed to me that I could afford a rusting trailer in Arizona or Florida but, upon investigation, could be much better off in a lower cost country. So, I joined millions of other working middle class folks from the USA, Germany, Australia, England, Denmark, Japan, etc. retiring in Thailand. No Mercedes and swimming pool but  ... 4 bed, 3 bath home, car, motorbike, excellent healthcare (much more reasonable than USA), etc.

[wwest5829]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:31 AM, 2baht said:

300 plus mass killings in USA so far this year....yes, there's plenty wrong with owning a gun! Why are Americans so obsessed with killing Americans???

 

 

That is the question. Seems like most wish to avoid the hard thinking required to half-way comprehend what are the root causes and address same.

 

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

retiring in Thailand. No Mercedes and swimming pool but  ... 4 bed, 3 bath home, car, motorbike, excellent healthcare (much more reasonable than USA), etc.

You need a 4 bdrm / 3 bath home in your retirement ?

 

We just downsized from 400+m² under roof on 2 rai, to 120m², and now 1 bdrm / 2 bath on 1/4 rai, w/ 1/4 rai for garden adjacent.  Actually the garden was an after thought, and on the other side of the road ????

 

1 bdrm ... prepping for the yearly virus and social distancing ... ????

If lived in city / urban area, could easily get by with a bicycle or ebike if lazy.

 

Just an observation as I know the difference between need & want.

Edited August 15, 2022 by KhunLA

[RamenRaven]

On 8/13/2022 at 4:54 PM, Iamfalang said:

People.   Depends on you.   In America, you can talk to their language.   Deep conversations.  Real relationships.  Here, "Food...ok, ok...good good? short time?"   The kindest people I met have been in America, but I've met many, many kind people in Thailand.   In America, they'll give you money, food, help you move, whatever......here, smiles. 

It depends on where you live in America. What you described is more like a small town in the rural Midwest or South.

 

Many American expats from the suburbs, particularly in states like California and New York, complain about how neighbors don't talk to each other since they want privacy and quiet neighborhoods. No one helps each other at all. Conversations are really fake, 1-5 minutes of boring small talk about the weather and traffic. And all they'll do is to call the cops on you because of a crying baby or barking dog, or because you said "hi" to a girl.

 

Cranky stuck-up suburban American neighbors giving you money and food, or even helping you move? Heck no. That's more like any part of Thailand except maybe for Bangkok.

 

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You need a 4 bdrm / 3 bath home in your retirement ?

 

We just downsized from 400+m² under roof on 2 rai, to 120m², and now 1 bdrm / 2 bath on 1/4 rai, w/ 1/4 rai for garden adjacent.  Actually the garden was an after thought, and on the other side of the road ????

 

1 bdrm ... prepping for the yearly virus and social distancing ... ????

If lived in city / urban area, could easily get by with a bicycle or ebike if lazy.

 

Just an observation as I know the difference between need & want.

We found a comfortable rental house on a double lot here in Chiang Mai for 15,000 baht a month ($423.00 USD). Our bedroom, Daughter's bedroom. My office with my library of European and Asian History books (already donated 300 American History books to Chiang Mai University Library). My wife, pre-Covid had been working sewing clothing together for the tourist market so one room holds her sewing machines and related materials. Each family's needs/wants are different. The Daughter (17) goes off to university, then would be the time for us to get that smaller house ... and on one floor.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

The Daughter (17) goes off to university, then would be the time for us to get that smaller house ... and on one floor.

That's when we downsized.  House was fine, but maintaining 2 rai was a bit much.  Plus needed a location change ... Udon Thani to surfside PKK, not HH 

[ColeBOzbourne]

On 8/13/2022 at 11:51 PM, Jerno said:

If you like all your neighbors and most strangers carrying guns everywhere... 

Sounds like you've never actually been there. Many people do own guns, but you rarely see anyone carrying them around in public. Occasionally, yes. The vast majority of guns are kept locked up at home. Maybe you've been watching too many old Cowboy movies????

[bendejo]

9 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

But to say the developed world in no longer a refuge from the third world? Well is sure as heck is where I live.

 

Where in Issan was this pic taken?

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

5 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

No Mercedes and swimming pool

Don't have no Mercedes or a car for that matter, but for me, a swimming pool is essential. With the big move last June, I now have a 25 meter saltwater pool about 100 meters from my house.

 

So some people have to be near water on a coast, but for me, this is even better.

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:51 PM, jack71 said:

I would like to here from some Americans

Well, it really sounds like this post is an attempt to clear a path for America bashing... 

 

It would be like me showing a video of the Sydney sewer system and saying I am reconsidering my plans to move there...