Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU

[candide]

27 minutes ago, internationalism said:

member of bundestag Dagdelenon EU on lack of investigation:

 

"“The EU has failed to free itself from US dominance and pursue an independent, self-assured foreign and security policy. The apogee of European impotence in its feudal relations with the United States was the refusal to investigate terrorist acts of sabotage against the Russian-German Nord Stream gas pipeline, she said."

https://www.weeklyblitz.net/news/germany-linked-explosions-at-nord-stream-with-eu-dependence-on-us/

And who is this person? ????

"As late as February 2022, Dağdelen denied references by Western intelligence agencies to the imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022. On 18 February 2022, she appeared at a demonstration in Berlin with the slogan "Security for Russia is security for our country," where she accused the German media of spreading the "tall tales of the U.S. intelligence service".[9] After the Russian invasion occurred, Dağdelen was among the co-signers of a statement attributing significant responsibility for the Russian invasion to the United States.[10] In April 2022, she praised German protesters who opposed an increase in German military spending, and she described it as "madness" to deliver military weapons to Ukraine.[11]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevim_Dağdelen

 

[internationalism]

analisys,  Alfred de Zayas a law professor at the Geneva School of Diplomacy, a UN Independent Expert on International Order:

"The revelations contained Seymour Hersh’s analysis of the evidence pointing to US authorship of the blowing up of the  Nordstream pipelines[1] is compelling, and in a normal world this would cause a governmental crisis, a condemnation of the terror attack by the US Congress, a call for an internal investigation into illegal activities by the CIA and Pentagon, an international investigation under UN auspices, a cautious statement by the UN Secretary-General, a Protest by the United Nations Environmental Programme, a generalized media uprising, and even require the Biden Administration to step down in the light of the magnitude of the gross violation of the UN Charter and international treaties.

It is mind-boggling:  The country that claims to be a defender of international law engages is a brazen terror operation conducted in the name of the American people, who certainly would oppose the US government involvement in false flag operations and outright State terrorism."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/15/hersh-the-us-and-the-sabotage-of-the-nordstream-pipelines/

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

member of bundestag Dagdelenon EU on lack of investigation:

 

"“The EU has failed to free itself from US dominance and pursue an independent, self-assured foreign and security policy. The apogee of European impotence in its feudal relations with the United States was the refusal to investigate terrorist acts of sabotage against the Russian-German Nord Stream gas pipeline, she said."

https://www.weeklyblitz.net/news/germany-linked-explosions-at-nord-stream-with-eu-dependence-on-us/

Your links are a farce:

 

 https://www.weeklyblitz.net/  Run by: Uddin Shoaib Choudhury is a Bangladeshi journalist and the editor of the Bangladeshi newspaper 'Blitz'. Choudhury has faced a number of criminal charges against him including smuggling information out of the country, fraud, sedition, treason, blasphemy, and espionage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_Choudhury

 

As for Sevim Dagdelen

 

Sevim Dagdelen and Ukraine: The Left Party’s Donalda Trump

The Bochum member of the Bundestag Sevim Dagdelen (left) is something like Sahra Wagenknecht’s sidekick. In articles and on social media, she spreads fake news against Ukraine and the West.

[internationalism]

Interview with Jeffrey Sachs, american economist:

 

“I have long hypothesized that the U.S. Government carried out this action, and Hersh’s account adds to the likelihood of that hypothesis,” said Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, in an emailed interview with Xinhua.

The professor has listed 11 facts corresponding to Hersh’s report.

First and second are “the long-standing vociferous U.S. opposition to Nord Stream and the extensive record of U.S. covert operations against the infrastructure of other countries,” he said.

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2023/02/15/report-on-u-s-involvement-in-nord-stream-explosions/

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Interview with Jeffrey Sachs, american economist:

 

“I have long hypothesized that the U.S. Government carried out this action, and Hersh’s account adds to the likelihood of that hypothesis,” said Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, in an emailed interview with Xinhua.

The professor has listed 11 facts corresponding to Hersh’s report.

First and second are “the long-standing vociferous U.S. opposition to Nord Stream and the extensive record of U.S. covert operations against the infrastructure of other countries,” he said.

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2023/02/15/report-on-u-s-involvement-in-nord-stream-explosions/

Sachs explicitly against U.S. helping Ukraine, Sounds very radically biased to me. 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Interview with Jeffrey Sachs, american economist:

 

“I have long hypothesized that the U.S. Government carried out this action, and Hersh’s account adds to the likelihood of that hypothesis,” said Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, in an emailed interview with Xinhua.

The professor has listed 11 facts corresponding to Hersh’s report.

First and second are “the long-standing vociferous U.S. opposition to Nord Stream and the extensive record of U.S. covert operations against the infrastructure of other countries,” he said.

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2023/02/15/report-on-u-s-involvement-in-nord-stream-explosions/

Because an economics professor is always the were to go for expert analysis on Russia and Ukraine

 

 

Jeffrey Sachs

In 2013, he praised Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan for winning three consecutive general elections, “each time with a greater share of the popular vote,” without noting growing concerns about his repression of dissent. More recently, Sachs has downplayed concerns about China’s crackdown in Hong Kong and Xinjiang, including at a Chinese government online event hosted at a “guesthouse featuring traditional Uyghur-style decorations.” And in 2020, 16 months after the dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, he flew to Riyadh to speak at a forum hosted by a Saudi investment firm.

https://theintercept.com/2021/12/29/jeffrey-sachs-uae-happiness/

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

analisys,  Alfred de Zayas a law professor at the Geneva School of Diplomacy, a UN Independent Expert on International Order:

"The revelations contained Seymour Hersh’s analysis of the evidence pointing to US authorship of the blowing up of the  Nordstream pipelines[1] is compelling, and in a normal world this would cause a governmental crisis, a condemnation of the terror attack by the US Congress, a call for an internal investigation into illegal activities by the CIA and Pentagon, an international investigation under UN auspices, a cautious statement by the UN Secretary-General, a Protest by the United Nations Environmental Programme, a generalized media uprising, and even require the Biden Administration to step down in the light of the magnitude of the gross violation of the UN Charter and international treaties.

It is mind-boggling:  The country that claims to be a defender of international law engages is a brazen terror operation conducted in the name of the American people, who certainly would oppose the US government involvement in false flag operations and outright State terrorism."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/15/hersh-the-us-and-the-sabotage-of-the-nordstream-pipelines/

This is also the guy, the only person in fact, who denied that Venezuelan was experiencing a humanitarian crisis.

More than eighty Venezuelan organizations questioned de Zayas' conclusions that there was not a humanitarian crisis in the country. In a public statement, the organizations said that before finishing his mission in Venezuela and without having processed the information provided by the organizations, de Zayas formed an opinion prematurely and assumed the government's point of view, which blames the "economic warfare" and "blockade" for the food and medical supplies shortages. The organizations said that in two years, among twenty two experts from twelve international organizations, de Zayas' report was the only one to say there was no humanitarian crisis in the country. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas

 

And what sort of reviewer accepts Hersh's allegation unqualifiedly. Not an impartial one, that's for sure.

[KhaoNiaw]

On the surface Seymour Hersh's story looks passable, but as you dig deeper it has more holes than the Nord Stream pipe.
https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/blowing-holes-in-seymour-hershs-pipe

[internationalism]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:53 AM, heybruce said:

A tediously long story.  Can you point out the parts where evidence to support the story is provided?

a summary of hersh investigation published today in

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/22973-us-and-norway-blew-up-the-nord-stream-pipelines-seymour-hersh.html

Finland is not a neutral country, but probably media are less censored, than in some other countries

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[KhaoNiaw]

Link to a Twitter thread where Oliver Alexander identifies factual errors made by Hersh:

 

[Hummin]

17 minutes ago, internationalism said:

a summary of hersh investigation published today in

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/22973-us-and-norway-blew-up-the-nord-stream-pipelines-seymour-hersh.html

Finland is not a neutral country, but probably media are less censored, than in some other countries

Sabotage is not terrorism! I guess only time can tell if true. Every conspiracy have some truth to it. I can wait and see, but as a Norwegian I would be surprised the Americans did not execute this themselves. 

 

The P-8 is as far I know, not operative yet! 

 

Norway’s new state-of-the-art maritime surveillance aircraft, the P-8 Poseidon, will begin patrolling sea areas in 2023.

 

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/03/norways-first-p-8a-mpa-arrives-home/

[internationalism]

Yesterday's interwiew with Hersh by Alexander Zevin.

Some new details.

 

"And my perception is that they wanted to come up with options to forestall Putin and Russia. So this team was created and they asked themselves, Do we want to pursue a reversible or an irreversible course of action? Sanctions are reversible, whereas kinetic operations – attacks on infrastructure and the like – are not."

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/how-to-blow-up-a-pipeline

 

[Saanim]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sachs explicitly against U.S. helping Ukraine, Sounds very radically biased to me. 

 

 

Is he "radically biased" if pointed on wrong doing? 

 

[KhaoNiaw]

7 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Yesterday's interwiew with Hersh by Alexander Zevin.

Some new details.

Just to note that the Oliver Alexander thread deals with factual errors in Hersh's interview:

 

[Hummin]

48 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Yesterday's interwiew with Hersh by Alexander Zevin.

Some new details.

 

"And my perception is that they wanted to come up with options to forestall Putin and Russia. So this team was created and they asked themselves, Do we want to pursue a reversible or an irreversible course of action? Sanctions are reversible, whereas kinetic operations – attacks on infrastructure and the like – are not."

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/how-to-blow-up-a-pipeline

 

What is not reversible blowing up an pipeline! 

[Jingthing]

45 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Is he "radically biased" if pointed on wrong doing? 

 

If he's broadcasting misinformation just because it supports his agenda, that certainly is wrongdoing.

 

My issue here is to suggest that people not take such weakly verified theory as fact.

[Saanim]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If he's broadcasting misinformation just because it supports his agenda, that certainly is wrongdoing.

 

My issue here is to suggest that people not take such weakly verified theory as fact.

Your issue? Whatever is not in line with the official narrative is "biased", therefore wrongdoing?

However, we like to say: each voice to be heard.

 

Was it also you who said that Hersh is "biased". Because of wrongdoing? His?    

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Your issue? Whatever is not in line with the official narrative is "biased", therefore wrongdoing?

However, we like to say: each voice to be heard.

 

Was it also you who said that Hersh is "biased". Because of wrongdoing? His?    

Believing Hersch is the official narrative of Russia.

You seem to misunderstand hopefully not intentionally. 

I'm saying take his theory only as theory and not as fact because it is so weakly verified in addition to Hirsch's obvious bias. 

Consider his report possibly true but as yet unproven. 

Hopefully later it can be either better confirmed or definitively debunked.

Cheers.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Jingthing

[Hummin]

In retrospective, would it been wrong to sabotage the pipeline? Thats the question

 

And of course blaim Russia for it! It is a war, and every tactical move that hurts russia, should be appreciated? Right? 

 

Even higher energy prices in Europe is the price to pay

[Bkk Brian]

"The Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs told Insider: "These allegations are nonsense."

 

The claim by a discredited journalist that the US secretly blew up the Nord Stream pipeline is proving a gift to Putin

 

A journalist's heavily disputed claim on Wednesday that the US government blew up the Nord Stream 2 pipelines sparked a flat rejection from the White House — and glee from the Kremlin.

 

Seymour Hersh alleged in a self-published article that the Biden administration partnered with Norway in a top-secret operation targeting the pipelines under the Baltic Sea, which were destroyed in June 2022.

 

The White House, contacted by Hersh for comment, called the story "false and complete fiction" and issued a further denial after the article was published.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-embraces-hersh-claims-biden-blew-up-nord-stream-2-2023-2

[Saanim]

25 minutes ago, Hummin said:

In retrospective, would it been wrong to sabotage the pipeline? Thats the question

 

And of course blaim Russia for it! It is a war, and every tactical move that hurts russia, should be appreciated? Right? 

 

Even higher energy prices in Europe is the price to pay

So, you are insinuating that the pipeline sabotage is not wrong? Destroying billions of infrastructure, throwing millions of people into poverty? Is there any war in North of Europe, in Baltic Sea?

 

Whether did it it hurt Russia? There are figures that say something about that. And because of that "sabotage" there are many who are getting  profits never seen before on the cost of the Europe population. That's OK for you? 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, Saanim said:

So, you are insinuating that the pipeline sabotage is not wrong? Destroying billions of infrastructure, throwing millions of people into poverty? Is there any war in North of Europe, in Baltic Sea?

 

Whether did it it hurt Russia? There are figures that say something about that. And because of that "sabotage" there are many who are getting  profits never seen before on the cost of the Europe population. That's OK for you? 

It is a question! 

 

As said earlier I do not believe we did, but still would be an interesting debate. 

[Saanim]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a question! 

 

As said earlier I do not believe we did, but still would be an interesting debate. 

Not an interesting debate with somebody saying "would it been wrong to sabotage the pipeline?"

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, Saanim said:

So, you are insinuating that the pipeline sabotage is not wrong? Destroying billions of infrastructure, throwing millions of people into poverty? Is there any war in North of Europe, in Baltic Sea?

 

Whether did it it hurt Russia? There are figures that say something about that. And because of that "sabotage" there are many who are getting  profits never seen before on the cost of the Europe population. That's OK for you? 

It's not the sabotage that hurt Russia but the fact that Europe no longer requires Russian gas. 75% of Russia's gas exports went to Europe. 65% of its oil. Russia has to give steep discounts to India and China to sell its oil. As for gas, it will take years to build a pipeline to China. Which doesn't really have a pressing need for it.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Link to a Twitter thread where Oliver Alexander identifies factual errors made by Hersh:

 

Some compelling fact checks in that string of tweets, totally discrediting many aspects of the conspiracy nonsense by Hersh. Here's a few more facts.

 

Claim That US Blew up Nord Stream Pipelines Relies on Anonymous Source

This story, when deconstructed, is merely a pile of purported second-hand information allegedly collected by someone connected in some unknown way to deliberations of a highly secret, multi-agency task force. Such a story falls prey to the same criticisms of other more recent work published by Hersh, which has relied on similarly questionable anonymous sources.

If the U.S. did conspire to destroy the Nord Stream pipeline, Hersh's reporting has not proved that case, Hersh has, instead, made a very successful blog post that essentially transcribes a compelling story someone unknown to the general public told him.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/02/10/hersh-nord-stream-sabotage/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhaoNiaw]

 

Nord Stream, Seymour Hersh and how disinformation works 

Did the United States blow up the Nord Stream pipelines in the Baltic Sea? Spoiler: I don’t know. 

And Seymour Hersh, a well known U.S. investigative journalist who made the claim last week, has managed to ensure that we may never know the truth. Hersh’s story is a case study in modern-day disinformation.
https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/seymour-hersh-nord-stream/

 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

In retrospective, would it been wrong to sabotage the pipeline? Thats the question

 

And of course blaim Russia for it! It is a war, and every tactical move that hurts russia, should be appreciated? Right? 

 

Even higher energy prices in Europe is the price to pay

Yes it would be wrong. 

But no proof that it happened.

[onthedarkside]

A post has been removed.

 

Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source. Known conspiracy and fake news websites are not credible.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, internationalism said:

a summary of hersh investigation published today in

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/22973-us-and-norway-blew-up-the-nord-stream-pipelines-seymour-hersh.html

Finland is not a neutral country, but probably media are less censored, than in some other countries

Here's something interesting about the Helsinki Times

In 2020 and 2021, the newssite has sections for China News in English and Simplified Chinese, whose articles are provided directly by People's Daily, and which have downplayed the Xinjiang internment camps^[9] and published Chinese-written disinformation about Covid-19.^[10] It defended the arrangement as an attempt to balance allegedly biased Western media reports.^[10]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_Times}