Volodymyr Zelenskiy dismisses Moscow ceremony as a farce and rules out negotiations with Putin

 

A defiant Volodymyr Zelenskiy has announced that Ukraine is officially applying for membership of Nato, hours after Vladimir Putin said in a Kremlin ceremony that he was annexing four Ukrainian provinces.

 

In a speech filmed outside his presidential office in Kyiv, Zelenskiy said he was taking this “decisive step” in order to protect “the entire community” of Ukrainians. He promised the application would happen in an “expedited manner”.

 

“De facto, we have already made our way to Nato. De facto, we have already proven compatibility with alliance standards. They are real for Ukraine – real on the battlefield and in all aspects of our interaction,” he said. “We trust each other, we help each other, and we protect each other. This is the alliance. De facto. Today, Ukraine is applying to make it de jure.”

 

See more:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/30/ukraine-applies-for-nato-membership-after-russia-annexes-territory

 

 

 

 

Precisely the one thing that will guarantee the war will go on and on. 

 

Who benefits from this war supported by the American taxpayer  to the tune of (at least) $39 billion?  The main beneficiaries clearly (see their stock price increases through this year) are Northrop Grumann  Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other such armament manufacturers.

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

23 minutes ago, blazes said:

Precisely the one thing that will guarantee the war will go on and on. 

 

Who benefits from this war supported by the American taxpayer  to the tune of (at least) $39 billion?  The main beneficiaries clearly (see their stock price increases through this year) are Northrop Grumann  Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other such armament manufacturers.

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

This war will go for as long as it takes for Ukraine to drive the barbarians out.

Not going to happen imo (unfortunately), however Ukraine doesn't need to join NATO to win. Its doing nicely without it now with the NATO support and from the west.

 

Canada supports Ukraine’s bid to join NATO, Mélanie Joly says

In Washington, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Canada’s Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly condemned Putin’s latest moves, including “sham” votes this week that were “political theatre” to justify Friday’s “illegitimate” annexations.

Joly said Canada supports Ukraine’s bid to join NATO. Blinken was more cautious, saying only there is a “process” to follow for any country seeking to join the western military alliance.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/09/30/canada-supports-ukraines-bid-to-join-nato-mlanie-joly-says.html

 

 

Zelensky is right but I don’t think NATO will go for this yet. Particularly Putin liking Hungary and now fascist Italy.

 

Unfortunately NATO will probably wait until Putin uses a nuke.

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This war will go for as long as it takes for Ukraine to drive the barbarians out.

But Ukraine can't do that alone.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But Ukraine can't do that alone.

Its not alone, this from Sept 12th:  In four days, Ukraine nullified four months of Russia's 'success'

 

Since then they are now reclaiming Yampil and Lyman.

 

With this level of support from the west in terms of military aid and training they can drive Russia out in time. Unless things get really ugly with Putin and his threats of a nuclear option.

41 minutes ago, blazes said:

Precisely the one thing that will guarantee the war will go on and on. 

 

Who benefits from this war supported by the American taxpayer  to the tune of (at least) $39 billion?  The main beneficiaries clearly (see their stock price increases through this year) are Northrop Grumann  Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other such armament manufacturers.

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

Freedom and democracy has never come cheap. The war machine vendors always are the financial winners 

1 hour ago, blazes said:

Precisely the one thing that will guarantee the war will go on and on. 

 

Who benefits from this war supported by the American taxpayer  to the tune of (at least) $39 billion?  The main beneficiaries clearly (see their stock price increases through this year) are Northrop Grumann  Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other such armament manufacturers.

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

A weapon to destroy, a weapon to protect.

 

Do you really think it is just "the Western political line" that this is all about ? Think again.

4 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Do you really think it is just "the Western political line" that this is all about ? Think again.

I did (think again) and find the exact same answer through  a  lifetime of seeing American failure after failure after failure to impose its view of the world upon one 3rd world  country  after another.

It's  only just over  12 months since the shameful retreat from Afghanistan after 20  years of showing the Taliban and company the values of the Western way of life.

 

You'd  think someone in Washington would, after all these failures,  "think again".

 

 

Given Putin's intention to annex part of the Ukraine , it would be a good lesson for him if the Ukraine became a NATO member in record time . If , ever , he decides to use Nukes on Ukraine , it would be a nuclear attack on NATO with all the consequences .

Ukraine with all it's valuable resources would be a welcome addition to the EU and Nato .

 

13 minutes ago, blazes said:

I did (think again) and find the exact same answer through  a  lifetime of seeing American failure after failure after failure to impose its view of the world upon one 3rd world  country  after another.

It's  only just over  12 months since the shameful retreat from Afghanistan after 20  years of showing the Taliban and company the values of the Western way of life.

 

You'd  think someone in Washington would, after all these failures,  "think again".

 

 

I can agree with your first sentence. Wrong method maybe, not thourougly thought through and maybe, deficiancies in their own understanding leading to catastrophic results wthout intent.

 

But I am quite sure you would not prefer a culture where it is perfectly OK to kill your own daughter when she gets pregnant or where you may choose only a haircut from a restricted number of possibilities or where you are asked to tell the authorities if someone does not wear some clothes according to an artificial supersticious belief leading to an execution etc. etc. etc. etc..

 

And yes I believe that someone in Washington could eventually develop a correct rethinking (takes time maybe).

16 minutes ago, blazes said:

I did (think again) and find the exact same answer through  a  lifetime of seeing American failure after failure after failure to impose its view of the world upon one 3rd world  country  after another.

It's  only just over  12 months since the shameful retreat from Afghanistan after 20  years of showing the Taliban and company the values of the Western way of life.

 

You'd  think someone in Washington would, after all these failures,  "think again".

 

 

And here I though this was all about Russia's invasion of a peaceful neighboring country and not about what the USA might or might not have done for the last 50 years. Silly me!????

 

PS. Mods; you really need to change the title of the thread to reflect this astounding fact so eloquently pointed out by the poster Blazes (who in no way is obsessed with US foreign policy missteps to the degree he cannot bring himself to acknowledge that this is all on Putin - no way at all!)

22 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Given Putin's intention to annex part of the Ukraine , it would be a good lesson for him if the Ukraine became a NATO member in record time . If , ever , he decides to use Nukes on Ukraine , it would be a nuclear attack on NATO with all the consequences .

Ukraine with all it's valuable resources would be a welcome addition to the EU and Nato .

"the consequences"They would be what?3rd world war!!!I think we don't need that

Zelensky must be tearing his hair out.

Just now, farmerjo said:

Zelensky must be tearing his hair out.

Why? 

18 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

"the consequences"They would be what?3rd world war!!!I think we don't need that

That's up to Putin.

4 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Why? 

Because Stolenberg's response wasn't exactly encouraging.

1 minute ago, farmerjo said:

Because Stolenberg's response wasn't exactly encouraging.

true but this was more of a message to Putin that his previous statement that Ukraine would not join NATO is now off the table. Zelensky had mentioned that before publicly as a concession in peace talks. Now he’s being very clear that there are no talks left until Russia is kicked out.

2 hours ago, blazes said:

Precisely the one thing that will guarantee the war will go on and on. 

 

Who benefits from this war supported by the American taxpayer  to the tune of (at least) $39 billion?  The main beneficiaries clearly (see their stock price increases through this year) are Northrop Grumann  Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other such armament manufacturers.

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

Not supported just by the US.  Supported by many NATO countries already who have given arms to the Ukrainian Military to help save the country from the raping, pillaging, indiscriminate killing of woman, children, and aid givers, while the Russians torture the people. The stock prices you think are increasing are not.  I have stock in all companies and they have taken some serious hits like the rest of the companies listed on wall street.

Vladimir putin is a political genius.

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its not alone, this from Sept 12th:  In four days, Ukraine nullified four months of Russia's 'success'

 

Since then they are now reclaiming Yampil and Lyman.

 

With this level of support from the west in terms of military aid and training they can drive Russia out in time. Unless things get really ugly with Putin and his threats of a nuclear option.

An interesting point; if Putin uses a nuclear weapon seem to me that biden can't ignore it and will order a fast bigger nuclear drop on Russia.

Just now, scorecard said:

An interesting point; if Putin uses a nuclear weapon seem to me that biden can't ignore it and will order a fast bigger nuclear drop on Russia.

Problem Putin has is if he uses a tactical nuke the fallout has the potential to drift back into Russia or even across the borders into NATO countries. Then either Russians will suffer greatly at the hand of their own leader, or a defensive strike against Russia will be the end of all.

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Problem Putin has is if he uses a tactical nuke the fallout has the potential to drift back into Russia or even across the borders into NATO countries. Then either Russians will suffer greatly at the hand of their own leader, or a defensive strike against Russia will be the end of all.

The weather forecast with wind speed/ direction/ precipitation will be considered carefully should it come to the lunatic's decision to carry out this act of terrorism. He has no thoughts for any other nation except his own.

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

An interesting point; if Putin uses a nuclear weapon seem to me that biden can't ignore it and will order a fast bigger nuclear drop on Russia.

I personally don't see that happening, how can he drop a nuclear bomb onto a country that he claimed to be protecting their citizens? Its all sabre rattling because he's weak and losing. ????

The brave way the Ukrainians have fought I think that NATO should be applying to join Ukraine.

3 hours ago, blazes said:

It has been ever thus, via Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and all similar countries who failed in some way to toe the Western political line.

Or where the communist backed half chose to invade the Western backed half of their divided country, as was the case in Korea and Vietnam.

Hopefully it will happen after Putin is run out of Ukraine or it will be used as a bargaining chip when Putin is forced to capitulate after beeing run out of Ukraine!

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Or where the communist backed half chose to invade the Western backed half of their divided country, as was the case in Korea and Vietnam.

True for Korea, not really for Vietnam. The Viet Mimn (Viet Cong) was composed of and run by Vietnamese from the South for much of the war. Only as their numbes dwindled did that change.