Driving in Thailand

[kwilco]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:16 AM, nigelforbes said:

A local rental car will have local insurance, I dunno what they require.

Insurance - Not sure what you mean by "local" insurance. do you mean national? - You home insurance may  not cover you for any form of driving without specifying it and motorcycles are often regarded as "extreme" activities - you'll need crowd funding to get out of that one.

This can be a minefield - as with everything concerning the "law" in Thailand the way it is enforced and the results are very inconsistent. One thing to bear in mind is that there is no court system that specifically deals with motoring offences. So the result is that courts are bypassed  altogether and the judicial duties are taken on by the police. It is they who decide who’s to blame and how much it will cost everyone involved and then take a “fee” for sorting it all out

However, driving without a really comprehensive cover leaves you open to all sorts of problems - you may end up paying medical bills for 3rd parties or repair bills, as well as your own.

If it's a rental car because you don't have an IDP the insurance company may decide not to cover you - even if the rental company thought it was OK

After 3 months in Thailand many insurance companies insist you have a Thai licence.

The basic insurance that comes with taxing a motor vehicle has virtually little value apart from paying for the first emergency bills after a crash.

Very few people check to see if they have bail bonds included. This can be important as the police have a habit of locking up everyone at the scene of some crashes until they can work out to their satisfaction what happened.

There is also a golden rule that some people ignore - if ever you are in any form of incident that looks even remotely serious, the first thing to do is call your insurance company - so have the number nearby or on your phone. Then make sure the emergency services or police have been called. The reason for this is the insurance company will quickly send an agent to the scene and they will act as an intermediary between you the police and the other parties involved. Many times I've seen gammon-faced farang standing by the side of the road arguing with police, other drivers, bystanders etc and  failing to realise the inevitable futility of their protestations.

[kwilco]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:17 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Only legal if he gets a thai driving licence

That's strictly not correct. ...and for a short-term visitor not a feasible idea.

His Aussie licence will be recognised especially  if he has an IDP.

He 's best off arranging to get one sent from home.

[lexxy]

Being through the process myself ill note my experience.

 

1) You should not drive in Pattaya without IDP. They will fine you even if you have an aussie license.

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

3) I was on a 2 month tourist Visa and went via a Visa agent, paid 4500 baht for both car and motorbike license and only thing i presented was my IDP (International driving permit). I was picked up and went to the road office and showed my passport and IDP and made a booking. 2 weeks later i went back, went upstairs and the only test i did was a color test and brake test, but even if you got it wrong many times they will keep allowing you to test until you get it right. I did not have to show any address etc as the agent fixed all that up.

[kwilco]

16 minutes ago, lextsy said:

Being through the process myself ill note my experience.

 

1) You should not drive in Pattaya without IDP. They will fine you even if you have an aussie license.

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

3) I was on a 2 month tourist Visa and went via a Visa agent, paid 4500 baht for both car and motorbike license and only thing i presented was my IDP (International driving permit). I was picked up and went to the road office and showed my passport and IDP and made a booking. 2 weeks later i went back, went upstairs and the only test i did was a color test and brake test, but even if you got it wrong many times they will keep allowing you to test until you get it right. I did not have to show any address etc as the agent fixed all that up.

You could rephrase that a little …

1 - "I could not drive" in Pattaya..... (last Time I was stopped in Pattaya was about 15 years ago)

2- "I could not get" a Thai licence without an IDP – (most people I know presented their home country licence and that was sufficient)

Then you should point out that you used an agent to get a licence on a tourist visa.

You should also say WHEN you did this as practices change.

I've had a Thai D/L for over 20 years, but always had a B visa....I NEVER went to the Pattaya office, or used an agent (actually I did use a friend from work one time)…… I've used Chonburi for almost everything motoring without any hassle apart from one renewal I did the eye/reaction colour test and watched the video - not for my first though.

More recently, I renewed on Samui - did an eye and reaction test there. In the Samui office (per-Covid) they were turning people away who they considered to be improperly dressed.

The thing is, that different offices do different things and so people may think they had the wrong documents when in fact they were wearing the wrong clothes – it’s as nuanced as that

  

 

[skatewash]

17 minutes ago, lextsy said:

Being through the process myself ill note my experience.

 

1) You should not drive in Pattaya without IDP. They will fine you even if you have an aussie license.

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

3) I was on a 2 month tourist Visa and went via a Visa agent, paid 4500 baht for both car and motorbike license and only thing i presented was my IDP (International driving permit). I was picked up and went to the road office and showed my passport and IDP and made a booking. 2 weeks later i went back, went upstairs and the only test i did was a color test and brake test, but even if you got it wrong many times they will keep allowing you to test until you get it right. I did not have to show any address etc as the agent fixed all that up.

Regarding #2, if you mean you cannot get a Thai license and skip the practical driving and written tests without an IDP, I would agree with that in general.  There may be some Land Transport Offices that will let an applicant skip the practical driving and written tests without an IDP, but many require it.

However, it is still possible for an applicant to apply for a Thai driving license without having any existing driving license by simply passing all the tests:  practical driving, written, and the physical tests (reaction time, light color recognition, etc.).

The advantage of having the IDP when applying for a Thai driving license at the LTO is that they will waive the requirements for the practical driving and written driving tests.

[Sparktrader]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

Driving on an IDP

A lot depends on what the police officer thinks he can do. Most want to see an IDP

 

Thangs seem to have changed though.

 

The old situation was that if your D/L had a photo and a recognised language (e.g. English” you’d be OK – and issued by a country that has a treaty with the Thai government allowing the mutual acceptance of driving licences

 

Thailand did sign the Geneva Convention 1949 – not sure they ratified it though.

 

However, that may be a moot point as they have signed the Vienna Convention (1968) on Road Traffic. This came into force in 1977 and Thailand signed in – wait for it! – 2020!

“When a state is contracting to more than one convention, the newest one terminate and replace previous ones in relation between those states”. - (UN – Vienna treaty)

 

Thailand has been ignoring a lot of the articles in this treaty but the IDP is in there.

Here is an extract………

"·      Contracting parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:

·      any domestic driving licence drawn up in their national language or in one of their national languages, or, if not drawn up in such a language, accompanied by a certified translation;

·      domestic driving licence conforms to the provisions of annex 6 to the convention;

·      International Driving Permit conforms to the provisions of annex 7 to the convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driving licence;

·      driving licences issued by a contracting party shall be recognised in the territory of another contracting party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;

·      the period of validity of an international driving permit shall be either no more than three years after the date of issue or until the date of expiry of the domestic driving licence, whichever is earlier;

·      an international driving permit shall only be issued by the contracting party in whose territory the holder has their normal residence"

 

“Normal place of residence” – this gives weight to the idea that those retired or working in the country are required to get a Thai driving licence.

Some insurance companies may withdraw cover on those who have been driving without an IP or on an IDP for more than 3 months.

 

IDPs are not meant to last for more tan 3 years from issue, but I’ve seen a 5 year IDP issued by Thailand.

 

So to be free from hassle and safe regards insurance you need an IDP that shows you have a FULL licence for whatever vehicle you are driving  (learner licences re all excluded) – it shows the international; categories and if you don’t have it at home it won’t show on your licence.

 

Whether or not the police will/can read this is another matter.

BTW – Those of you who have state-issued licences may also encounter problems with road side cops who want to see a nation on them

Most dont care.

[kwilco]

13 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Most dont care.

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years and I now get stopped a lot less than I used to ....... one of the vey first time I was stopped, I had a UK (i think I had a Thai one too) licence and they wanted an IDP , i persuaded them that the green paper part of my UK licence was an IDP....... they gave up and we left without a fine. Over the years though, I find that your personal attitude is one of the most important factors. There are so many farang who seem to think they are superior to Thais in every way and when stopped, cover their ignorance with a veil of cynicism....the RTP recognise this and are much more likely to make life difficult for you.

I've had some hilarious times when stopped and the have all ended friendly and to my advantage or minimum disadvantage - I thin it has helped I don't enter with prejudged "rules" or attitude and it works.

I had both cars and motorbikes.

[kwilco]

56 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Regarding #2, if you mean you cannot get a Thai license and skip the practical driving and written tests without an IDP, I would agree with that in general.  There may be some Land Transport Offices that will let an applicant skip the practical driving and written tests without an IDP, but many require it.

However, it is still possible for an applicant to apply for a Thai driving license without having any existing driving license by simply passing all the tests:  practical driving, written, and the physical tests (reaction time, light color recognition, etc.).

The advantage of having the IDP when applying for a Thai driving license at the LTO is that they will waive the requirements for the practical driving and written driving tests.

It always used to be the case that a UK driving licence holder (and some other countries) didn't need to take the practical test.  I think a lot of applicants are their own worst enemies when going for their licence, s I've said a couple of times they are their own worst enemy.

 

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

That's strictly not correct. ...and for a short-term visitor not a feasible idea.

His Aussie licence will be recognised especially  if he has an IDP.

He 's best off arranging to get one sent from home.

Op said has no IDP and won't get one sent over, get real,  I got a thai licence on a tourist visa no problem, maybe he's here for months anyway

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, lextsy said:

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

If the agent told you that she was telling you porkies

[PJ71]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

There are so many farang who seem to think they are superior to Thais in every way

I'm gonna put this out there but i think i'm superior to 90% of thais, much superior.

 

This is based on my observations over 20 years +.

 

Scarey thing is, i'm not even that smart - lol.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, lextsy said:

Being through the process myself ill note my experience.

 

 

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

 

Yeah, thats not correct.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

He 's best off arranging to get one sent from home.

And how would he do that exactly... with not being present with licence and all ?

[lexxy]

29 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Yeah, thats not correct.

Well that was the case in Pattaya, i had no requirement to show my Aussie license and had to only show my IDP. Guessing rules arent followed to the book here

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, lextsy said:

Well that was the case in Pattaya, i had no requirement to show my Aussie license and had to only show my IDP. Guessing rules arent followed to the book here

 

Banglamung LTD issued me with a drivers licence based on sighting my home country licence.

 

No request to produce an IDP.

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

If the agent told you that she was telling you porkies

Exactly, My first 2 year licenses were obtained by just showing my California License which was good for both auto and motorcycle.  No IDP asked for at all.  Was stopped many times prior to obtaining my Thai DL's, in Phuket as well as Udon Thani, and never once needed to show an IDP all I showed was my California license and after paying the fine on the spot 500 Baht to the desk Sergeant after parking my motorbike at the side of the road (GF at the time had no MC Helmet on) I was on my way.  Other times I just showed my CDL and off I went, never a question asked.  I admit I was a bad man and drove for almost a year on my CDL without ever obtaining the Thai DL's.

[Sparktrader]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years and I now get stopped a lot less than I used to ....... one of the vey first time I was stopped, I had a UK (i think I had a Thai one too) licence and they wanted an IDP , i persuaded them that the green paper part of my UK licence was an IDP....... they gave up and we left without a fine. Over the years though, I find that your personal attitude is one of the most important factors. There are so many farang who seem to think they are superior to Thais in every way and when stopped, cover their ignorance with a veil of cynicism....the RTP recognise this and are much more likely to make life difficult for you.

I've had some hilarious times when stopped and the have all ended friendly and to my advantage or minimum disadvantage - I thin it has helped I don't enter with prejudged "rules" or attitude and it works.

I had both cars and motorbikes.

Always waved thru. Smile and speak Thai. Life is easier. Cops dont like angry folks.

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, lextsy said:

Being through the process myself ill note my experience.

 

1) You should not drive in Pattaya without IDP. They will fine you even if you have an aussie license.

2) You cannot get a thai license without an IDP.

3) I was on a 2 month tourist Visa and went via a Visa agent, paid 4500 baht for both car and motorbike license and only thing i presented was my IDP (International driving permit). I was picked up and went to the road office and showed my passport and IDP and made a booking. 2 weeks later i went back, went upstairs and the only test i did was a color test and brake test, but even if you got it wrong many times they will keep allowing you to test until you get it right. I did not have to show any address etc as the agent fixed all that up.

In Pattaya country I'm not surprised. ????

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years and I now get stopped a lot less than I used to ....... one of the vey first time I was stopped, I had a UK (i think I had a Thai one too) licence and they wanted an IDP , i persuaded them that the green paper part of my UK licence was an IDP....... they gave up and we left without a fine. Over the years though, I find that your personal attitude is one of the most important factors. There are so many farang who seem to think they are superior to Thais in every way and when stopped, cover their ignorance with a veil of cynicism....the RTP recognise this and are much more likely to make life difficult for you.

I've had some hilarious times when stopped and the have all ended friendly and to my advantage or minimum disadvantage - I thin it has helped I don't enter with prejudged "rules" or attitude and it works.

I had both cars and motorbikes.

Like i have said you can argue a case or just pay the fine. 

Long stay people know the DL laws in Thailand are not the same as in their home country. 

 

Simply put you on holiday want drive, get a IDP. 

Staying long time get a Thai DL. 

 

[Sparktrader]

3 hours ago, PJ71 said:

I'm gonna put this out there but i think i'm superior to 90% of thais, much superior.

 

This is based on my observations over 20 years +.

 

Scarey thing is, i'm not even that smart - lol.

Im superior to 95% of farangs

Just saying

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Op said has no IDP and won't get one sent over, get real,  I got a thai licence on a tourist visa no problem, maybe he's here for months anyway

We also don't know how long he's staying - If he's here for over 3 months, then he should get a driving licence. I don't know the process for getting an IDP in Oz but if he could do it by proxy, he could have it sent over.

There are also internet sites that issue them - how legal they are I couldn't say.

[skatewash]

28 minutes ago, kwilco said:

We also don't know how long he's staying - If he's here for over 3 months, then he should get a driving licence. I don't know the process for getting an IDP in Oz but if he could do it by proxy, he could have it sent over.

There are also internet sites that issue them - how legal they are I couldn't say.

Getting an Australian issued IDP can be done online with delivery by mail to Thailand.  The "International Driver's Licenses" are not backed by any convention or treaty as apposed to an International Driving Permit, which is.  No one has to accept your "International Driver's Licence," they carry no authority.  While signatories to the various IDP conventions (1968, 1949). of which Thailand is one, are obligated to accept actual IDPs.  Drivers must obtain their IDP from the organization authorized by their home country.

https://www.aaa.asn.au/international-motoring/international-driving-permits/

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Scarey thing is, i'm not even that smart - lol.

you said it!

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, PJ71 said:

I'm gonna put this out there but i think i'm superior to 90% of thais, much superior.

 

This is based on my observations over 20 years +.

 

Scarey thing is, i'm not even that smart - lol.

Basically that is a racist point of view and leads foreign road users to be a danger to themselves and others...

Detailed anecdotal descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving achieve nothing. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplifying matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

 

A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users

 

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

 

“ ….. there are only three types of drivers; the too fast, the timid and oneself.” 
― Virginia Graham, Say Please

 

“There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well, drive and make love.” – Stirling Moss

 

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behaviour regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” [1]

 

These were some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK....

 

The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents... (Cauzard, 2003) -

But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a riskier manner than individuals themselves do  - (King and Parker, 2008)

It’s not just driving, older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not - (Tolmie. 2006).

 

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.

• I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do.

• Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”

• Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.

• Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008)

• The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).

• High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education

• But not for themselves - for other people.

 

However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives.

 

---

 

 

[PJ71]

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Basically that is a racist point of view and leads foreign road users to be a danger to themselves and others...

Detailed anecdotal descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving achieve nothing. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplifying matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

 

A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users

 

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

 

“ ….. there are only three types of drivers; the too fast, the timid and oneself.” 
― Virginia Graham, Say Please

 

“There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well, drive and make love.” – Stirling Moss

 

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behaviour regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” [1]

 

These were some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK....

 

The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents... (Cauzard, 2003) -

But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a riskier manner than individuals themselves do  - (King and Parker, 2008)

It’s not just driving, older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not - (Tolmie. 2006).

 

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.

• I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do.

• Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”

• Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.

• Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008)

• The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).

• High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education

• But not for themselves - for other people.

 

However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives.

 

---

 

 

Too much jibberish, way too mutt.

[brianthainess]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:21 AM, Peterw42 said:

Thats completely wrong. You can drive on a home country license, for a limited time. Thailand,(and most countries) are signatories to the international treaties

 

Section 42 of the Thai vehicle act

 

Section 42 bis.46 In the case where there is a bilateral agreement between the Government of Thailand and a foreign Government concerning reciprocal recognition of domestic driving licenses, an alien temporarily permitted to stay in the Kingdom under the law on immigration having a driving license issued by the competent official or a driving society recognized by the Government of the country under such bilateral agreement may use the driving license of such country in driving in the Kingdom in accordance with the category and type of vehicle specified in such driving license; provided that the existing Conventions and/or Agreements between the Government of Thailand and the Government of such country and all the provisions relating to the obligations of a driver under this Act must be complied. Section 43.4

I'm sure if you tell the Thai cops this they will smile and give you the fine. 

[kwilco]

48 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Too much jibberish, way too mutt.

Noted - thanks for your articulate input. BTW - I think "gibberish" is spelt a "g'

[Kwasaki]

42 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Noted - thanks for your articulate input. BTW - I think "gibberish" is spelt a "g'

spell police strike again. ????

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Noted - thanks for your articulate input. BTW - I think "gibberish" is spelt a "g'

sorry dad.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

spell police strike again. ????

that would be 
"spelling"