6 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Oh, it isn't, at all. My main point was, and is, that the UK government is so inept that the lives of the citizens would probably be better if Prayut and his gang were in charge.

 

The remark about Big Pharma was an aside, expressing surprise that people are willing to swallow anything that Big Pharma shovels in their direction while at the same time excoriating Big Oil for its predatory practices, when the two conglomerates are essentially identical.

 

If I'd thought that this self-evident truth would make people so defensive, I wouldn't have posted it.

I don't know about the UK but in the USA the rapaciousness of Big Pharma is a definite political issue. The Republicans do whatever they can to protect its profits. It was quite a fight for the Democrats to be able to give Medicare the right to negotiate prices even for just some medications. 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't know about the UK but in the USA the rapaciousness of Big Pharma is a definite political issue. The Republicans do whatever they can to protect its profits. It was quite a fight for the Democrats to be able to give Medicare the right to negotiate prices even for just some medications. 

This really isn't the place to continue the Republicans V Democrats USA politics  fight 

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

This really isn't the place to continue the Republicans V Democrats USA politics  fight 

Well, I was using it to debunk Eleutheros claims about how beloved Big Pharma is.

In fact, come to think of it, the phrase Big Pharma was not coined as a way to create a favorable impression of pharmaceutical companies.

27 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some Polish building companies got the contact for construction jobs (undercutting local building firms ) in London and only employed Polish workers (Who earned less than the going rate) and the interviews for the jobs were in Poland .

   So a British guy wanting to work in construction in London would need to go to Poland and have an interview for the job speaking in Polish .

   

If the company in question were paying less than the minimum wage and/or advertising that they would only employ Polish workers then they were breaking the law.

Just now, RayC said:

If the company in question were paying less than the minimum wage and/or advertising that they would only employ Polish workers then they were breaking the law.

It was above minimum  wage and they would employ anyone , just that you would have to go to Warsaw to apply and be able to speak and read Polish , as the jobs were advertised in Polish newspaper in Poland

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We have had the Covid pandemic and the Ukraine war sine Brexit and all three of those has had an effect on the U.K economy , other E.U Countries economies have been similar to the U.K's (some better, some worse) which shows Brexit isn't the reason for the current U.K economic condition 

No matter how many times you repeat this mantra, it still remains untrue.

 

Covid and the war in Ukraine have negatively affected economies but the fact remains that so has Brexit, as the link which I posted earlier demonstrates.

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

No matter how many times you repeat this mantra, it still remains untrue.

 

Covid and the war in Ukraine have negatively affected economies but the fact remains that so has Brexit, as the link which I posted earlier demonstrates.

Did you misread my post ?

We are both saying the same thing .

I am saying that Covid, Ukraine and Brexit have all had an effect on the U.K economy , rather than solely just Brexit 

 

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, I was using it to debunk Eleutheros claims about how beloved Big Pharma is.

'Beloved' is not quite the word I would use.

 

I would say rather that you would have to be reasonably sure of a company's ethical practices before you force people to use its products or suffer punishment, especially for products in a health context.

5 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

'Beloved' is not quite the word I would use.

 

I would say rather that you would have to be reasonably sure of a company's ethical practices before you force people to use its products or suffer punishment, especially for products in a health context.

I would say that when a product is this closely scrutinized and the issue is a contagious disease that put huge stress on the health system, people should stop being so selfish and irrational.

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Typical response what's needed is for Uk people to deal with all the problems and get on with instead of moaning.

Surprisingly I broadly agree with you. 

 

Mine is a typical response of those who did not believe - or were skeptical about - the claimed benefits of Brexit.

 

I also agree that it is time for the UK - I'd say government rather than people - to deal with the self-inflicted problems caused by Brexit and reap the rewards from leaving the EU.

 

The thing is that - based on the evidence to date - successive UK governments have been unable to identify - let alone implement - any of these perceived benefits. Of course - given that Brexiters are unable and/or unwilling to take accountability and responsibility for their action - the UK's current position can be attributed even in part to a failure of Brexit per sec, rather it is simply the consequence of Russian warmongering, a worldwide virus and the dastardly EU being nasty.

 

I think that I'll continue to point the finger and keep moaning.

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I would say that when a product is this closely scrutinized and the issue is a contagious disease that put huge stress on the health system, people should stop being so selfish and irrational.

I really can't tell if that is meant as a joke, or not.

 

Back to the UK's struggles, I think.

 

Lockdowns, boondoggles like Test & Trace, letting dozens of oil refineries close without replacing them, reckless sanctions against Russia (rather than using them as a bargaining chip), a farcical mini-budget. All in the last 3 years.

 

It is no wonder that the Bank of England is predicting the country will fall into its longest-ever recession, with unemployment set to double by 2025. Paying people not to work, shutting down refineries, and sanctioning other countries may feel good. But that doesn’t mean it can be done without disastrous consequences.

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you misread my post ?

We are both saying the same thing .

I am saying that Covid, Ukraine and Brexit have all had an effect on the U.K economy , rather than solely just Brexit 

 

The addition of "sole" changes the meaning significantly. You originally concluded:  "... which shows Brexit isn't the reason for the current U.K economic condition."

 

I'll agree that it isn't the sole reason but it is a major contributory factor.

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

Surprisingly I broadly agree with you. 

 

Mine is a typical response of those who did not believe - or were skeptical about - the claimed benefits of Brexit.

 

I also agree that it is time for the UK - I'd say government rather than people - to deal with the self-inflicted problems caused by Brexit and reap the rewards from leaving the EU.

 

The thing is that - based on the evidence to date - successive UK governments have been unable to identify - let alone implement - any of these perceived benefits. Of course - given that Brexiters are unable and/or unwilling to take accountability and responsibility for their action - the UK's current position can be attributed even in part to a failure of Brexit per sec, rather it is simply the consequence of Russian warmongering, a worldwide virus and the dastardly EU being nasty.

 

I think that I'll continue to point the finger and keep moaning.

Brexit , Covid and Ukraine have all effected on the U.K/World  economy and its not possible to divide them all up and apportion blame .

   There are still some Remainers  who are trying to claim that all the U.Ks woes are solely because of Brexit and re-joining again would solve all the problems , which quite clearly isn't the case 

On 11/12/2022 at 1:04 PM, Andrew65 said:

Brexit and COVID19 hit the UK at almost exactly the same time. COVID is estimated to have cost the taxpayer £400 billion, the effects of this will of course all be blamed on Brexit.

Spot the deliberate omission.

Now tell us how much brexit cost the taxpayer.

 

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Brexit , Covid and Ukraine have all effected on the U.K/World  economy and its not possible to divide them all up and apportion blame .

Incorrect. Statistical methods such as regression analyses allow us to do just that.

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

   There are still some Remainers  who are trying to claim that all the U.Ks woes are solely because of Brexit and re-joining again would solve all the problems , which quite clearly isn't the case 

No doubt true. But the other side of the coin is that there are Brexiters - including many of this board - who refuse to accept that Brexit has had a detrimental effect on the UK economy.

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

That's demonstrably false since the population of Germany at the beginning of 2015 was 80.98 million and at the end of 2021 was 83.13 million

Yes.. you quote only the population figures.. 

immigrants in Germans out...

43 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was above minimum  wage and they would employ anyone , just that you would have to go to Warsaw to apply and be able to speak and read Polish , as the jobs were advertised in Polish newspaper in Poland

Wasn't the single market and freedom of movement great? I remember being interviewed for a job which would have required me to be physically present in Prague. The job required fluent English. The interview took place in Brussels.

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Spot the deliberate omission.

Now tell us how much brexit cost the taxpayer.

 

I don't know. How much did it cost? Please quote sources.

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Wasn't the single market and freedom of movement great? I remember being interviewed for a job which would have required me to be physically present in Prague. The job required fluent English. The interview took place in Brussels.

May have been good for you , but wasn't too good for hod carriers looking for a job in Cricklewood on building sites

8 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

I don't know. How much did it cost? Please quote sources.

Your words

"COVID is estimated to have cost the taxpayer £400 billion, the effects of this will of course all be blamed on Brexit."

 

The implication being that it was all to do with covid, brexit came at no cost to the taxpayer.

Many UK companies set up outlets within the EU and are now employing EU labout and paying taxes to the EU instead of the UK exchequer.

Of course in the eyes of a brexiteer, reduced revenue can never be seen as a cost to the taxpayer.

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Your words

"COVID is estimated to have cost the taxpayer £400 billion, the effects of this will of course all be blamed on Brexit."

 

The implication being that it was all to do with covid, brexit came at no cost to the taxpayer.

Many UK companies set up outlets within the EU and are now employing EU labout and paying taxes to the EU instead of the UK exchequer.

Of course in the eyes of a brexiteer, reduced revenue can never be seen as a cost to the taxpayer.

For E.U citizens working in the E.U , their taxes would have been paid to the Government of the Country they were working in , even before Brexit , no change there 

31 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your words

"COVID is estimated to have cost the taxpayer £400 billion, the effects of this will of course all be blamed on Brexit."

 

The implication being that it was all to do with covid, brexit came at no cost to the taxpayer.

Many UK companies set up outlets within the EU and are now employing EU labout and paying taxes to the EU instead of the UK exchequer.

Of course in the eyes of a brexiteer, reduced revenue can never be seen as a cost to the taxpayer.

Every single negative thing in the UK is now being blamed on Brexit by Remainers. A month or 2 ago I was reading a report about how many pubs will close in the UK due to their energy bills doubling or tripling. This of course is seized upon by Remainers as proof of Brexit being such a bad thing, when in fact it's more down to the war in Ukraine and it's effects on worldwide energy markets.

If Martians landed in Hyde Park tomorrow you would try and make out that it was all to do with Brexit. You will clutch at any straw, however tenuous, to try and prove how bad Brexit was.

5 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Every single negative thing in the UK is now being blamed on Brexit by Remainers. A month or 2 ago I was reading a report about how many pubs will close in the UK due to their energy bills doubling or tripling. This of course is seized upon by Remainers as proof of Brexit being such a bad thing, when in fact it's more down to the war in Ukraine and it's effects on worldwide energy markets.

If Martians landed in Hyde Park tomorrow you would try and make out that it was all to do with Brexit. You will clutch at any straw, however tenuous, to try and prove how bad Brexit was.

I think you're likewise trying to pin any garbage on the left, like the projectionist claim that the remainers don't understand that their energy bills are a product of the war, not brexit.

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I think you're likewise trying to pin any garbage on the left, like the projectionist claim that the remainers don't understand that their energy bills are a product of the war, not brexit.

No one has mentioned the "Left" , I do hope that you are not trying to suggest that Brexit was a Left/Right wing  issue .

  People from all sides of the Political spectrum had varying opinions about leaving or remaining .

   Lefties are doing their best to try and  portray Brexit as being racist/xenophobic/ right wing , whilst conveniently forgetting that many left wing labour supporters also voted Brexit and some right wingers voted to remain  

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Surprisingly I broadly agree with you. 

 

Mine is a typical response of those who did not believe - or were skeptical about - the claimed benefits of Brexit.

 

I also agree that it is time for the UK - I'd say government rather than people - to deal with the self-inflicted problems caused by Brexit and reap the rewards from leaving the EU.

 

The thing is that - based on the evidence to date - successive UK governments have been unable to identify - let alone implement - any of these perceived benefits. Of course - given that Brexiters are unable and/or unwilling to take accountability and responsibility for their action - the UK's current position can be attributed even in part to a failure of Brexit per sec, rather it is simply the consequence of Russian warmongering, a worldwide virus and the dastardly EU being nasty.

 

I think that I'll continue to point the finger and keep moaning.

Fair call ???? it's a sad time I'm glad i don't live there anymore and i have made provision for my family to come to Thailand, up to them. 

 

Live from UK

 

 

On 11/12/2022 at 12:58 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Easy. They stopped making things that people want to buy and went for the "financial" markets, whatever they may be.

Also, they let in loads of people that contribute nothing to the country, but suck the economy like leeches.

 

Wasted north sea oil. They should have been like Norway.

 

Keep throwing money at the NHS instead of making it only about what it was supposed to do. Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on it. Sacking 70% of the managers would be a good start.

 

Apparently 3 generations living on the dole up north.

 

Tony Blair and joining the US war in Iraq.

 

The mistakes of the past are coming back to bite them on the bum.

Much easier to identify than that.  It's brexit and at last people can see that.  Not just brexit though.  Bad governance for the last ten years or so and incompetent morons who have systematically destroyed what was once a great country.  Our failure to keep to deals agreed by Johnson and his cronies means we can no longer be trusted and that trust will take a long time to restore.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No one has mentioned the "Left" , I do hope that you are not trying to suggest that Brexit was a Left/Right wing  issue .

  People from all sides of the Political spectrum had varying opinions about leaving or remaining .

   Lefties are doing their best to try and  portray Brexit as being racist/xenophobic/ right wing , whilst conveniently forgetting that many left wing labour supporters also voted Brexit and some right wingers voted to remain  

It would be wrong to cast brexit as apolitical.

 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/28/brexit-divides-the-uk-but-partisanship-and-ideology-are-still-key-factors/

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some Polish building companies got the contact for construction jobs (undercutting local building firms ) in London and only employed Polish workers (Who earned less than the going rate) and the interviews for the jobs were in Poland .

   So a British guy wanting to work in construction in London would need to go to Poland and have an interview for the job speaking in Polish .

   

But do you have a link to back up this system?

Lol what a load of cr*p, Italy is dying... they are just better at telling lies.