U.S. SSA Form 7162 delivery difficulties

[Pronto2]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

@Pronto2@oncebefore

 

Both of you mentioned you received the 2nd notice this week (week of 14 Nov).   To determine how long it took to get to you thru the mail what date was on the 2nd notice and/or included 7162?   Sometimes the date is just a line printed at the "very top" of the form which indicates when it was generated and should have been mailed very shortly after that.

 

And what part of Thailand are you located in as different parts get foreign mail faster/slower than other parts?

 

According to SSA instructions/regulation the SSA is suppose to mail the 2nd notice sometime in September....see partial quote at bottom.   But maybe since the SSA hasn't mailed the form for the past two years they took longer to get the 2nd notice mailed out.   If you just got the form that seems like a long time in the mail system unless a date on the 2nd notice/7162 indicates it was generated/mailed much later than September...like maybe mid-late Oct.   I get mail from the SSA/other govt agencies to my Bangkok home in around two weeks.

 

It may be too early for any of us to feel we are not on a 2nd notice list "if", repeat, if the 2nd notice wasn't mailed in September, but instead mailed recently (like mid-late Oct) and we just haven't received the notice yet.  Plus, 16-18 Nov are APEC special holidays here in the Bangkok area which may slow down mail getting delivered all over the country...I sure know the last day I saw the mailman in my Bangkok moobaan was Tuesday/15 Nov as he is now enjoying the special holidays.   He might be back to work on Saturday/19 Nov....then again, maybe not until Mon/21 Nov.

 

 

 

The date on my 2nd notice reads:  "Second Request  Oct. 27, 2022"   I am in Chiang Mai.

 

[jeffandgop]

I received the first notice/7162 in July and as I was traveling to the U.S. in August I took it with me and mailed it from a USPO facility- using the addressed envelope provided with the 7162.  Last week I received the damn second notice; so thinking you're safe mailing it within the U.S. is not a guarantee.  I suspect my first form arrived fine but hasn't been processed due to volume.  I'll be sending that second notice by Thai airmail...

[Pib]

46 minutes ago, Pronto2 said:

The date on my 2nd notice reads:  "Second Request  Oct. 27, 2022"   I am in Chiang Mai.

 

Yea...the SSA mailed the 2nd notice approximately a month later than their normal 2nd mailing schedule.  

[Skipalongcassidy]

SSI is online and easy... no postage... no wait... Social Security (ssa.gov)

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

SSI is online and easy... no postage... no wait... Social Security (ssa.gov)

You can't file this form there so why is that relevant?

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You can't file this form there so why is that relevant?

You must respect those 2 guns.

[Skipalongcassidy]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You can't file this form there so why is that relevant?

Sorry... now I remember why I established an ongoing address and bank account in the USA

[konaboy]

On 11/17/2022 at 7:59 AM, DineshR said:

I don't have this problem yet but after receiving benefits I suspect I will start to have this problem every year. Here are some lessons I have learned recently through my process of initiating retirement benefits from Thailand.

 

1. In order to get through to a live agent at the 1-800 SSA number, the only way to get around the automated system is to repeatedly ask for an agent. After 2 or 3 tries it will ultimately connect you with an agent. However, depending on when you call, you could wait quite a while before you actually get to speak with an agent - in my case, both times I called, it took about 30 mins.

 

2. The best way to connect with FBU Manila in my opinion is to send them an inquiry - https://ph.usembassy.gov/services/fbu-inquiry-form .  It may take a while for them to respond but in my experience, they do respond to inquiries received via this link.

 

A couple of things learned from prior posts here.

 

1. Keep the US address on my Social Security account.

 

2. Keep some local contact numbers of Social security offices near my US address

 

3. Consider sending the form to a friend and have them mail it to the required address.

 

 

 

Pick door#3

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Sorry... now I remember why I established an ongoing address and bank account in the USA

If you're living abroad social security requires that we inform them but deceiving them is a common way of avoiding the need to file the form.

[EVENKEEL]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you're living abroad social security requires that we inform them but deceiving them is a common way of avoiding the need to file the form.

I consider myself on a prolonged vacation.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I consider myself on a prolonged vacation.

So you won't partake of the rules. 

Up to you.

They are paying us money and it has conditions. 

[elektrified]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:22 PM, HuskerDo2 said:

The National Number for the SSA is 1-800-772-1213. Might be worth a call to explain the situation and find a resolution.

That doesn't work. I already tried that. They insist you have to call 410 9650160 in Pennsylvania to deal with this issue. I am having the same problem as the OP. I just got my 2nd letter today and have called that number in Pennsylvania 45 times and just get a recording that all lines are busy.

[elektrified]

On 11/18/2022 at 4:09 PM, Pronto2 said:

The date on my 2nd notice reads:  "Second Request  Oct. 27, 2022"   I am in Chiang Mai.

 

Me too. October 27.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, elektrified said:

That doesn't work. I already tried that. They insist you have to call 410 9650160 in Pennsylvania to deal with this issue. I am having the same problem as the OP. I just got my 2nd letter today and have called that number in Pennsylvania 45 times and just get a recording that all lines are busy.

Yea, talking to folks at the SSA 1800 call all customer support number for a lot of specific SSA problems often results in them referring you to another SSA number and saying they will send an internal message to that other SSA agency/department to contact you.  Kinda like throwing a stick for a dog to go chase and after you throw the stick you run away before the dog gets back to you because you don't want to play stick with your dog.

 

410 965 0160 is not in Pennsylvania; it's the number for the SSA Office of Earning and International Operations in Baltimore Maryland.   See below SSA webpage which shows the phone number.  It also gives a FAX number where you can fax forms....also has a link to contact them via email where you could include an attachment like a completed/scanned 7162. 

https://www.ssa.gov/foreign/

 

Recommend you immediately mail your 2nd notice 7162 to Wilkes Barre via "regular" airmail; not "registered airmail.  And maybe email/fax your 7162 to Int'l Ops to add another chance of your 7162 being recording into the magic SSA system.

 

 

 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea, talking to folks at the SSA 1800 call all customer support number for a lot of specific SSA problems often results in them referring you to another SSA number and saying they will send an internal message to that other SSA agency/department to contact you.

I've done this exact dance for 2+ years over an issue of income missing from SSA's list of yearly earnings.  The only positive result from phone calls is that the phone reps confirmed that they can see what I've sent to the SSA (letter and form 561).  All reps promised to send one of those wonderful "internal messages".  The only result from that is I now have significant evidence that black holes do exist.

Edited November 22, 2022 by gamb00ler

[Pib]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

I've done this exact dance for 2+ years over an issue of income missing from SSA's list of yearly earnings.  The only positive result from phone calls is that the phone reps confirmed that they can see what I've sent to the SSA (letter and form 561).  All reps promised to send one of those wonderful "internal messages".  The only result from that is I now have significant evidence that black holes do exist.

Dealing with the SSA for some issues/problems can extremely frustrating.  Around 4 years ago when the wife started her SSA pension the Manila FBU messed up the Benefits Begin date....this was done during the phone interview.   I was involved in that phone interview with the wife's and Manila permission.   Well, although the advance paperwork that had been sent to Manila stated a benefit begin date of October and they the rep was told that again verbally during the interview the rep apparently made a typo and entered a June Benefits Begin date in the application he forwarded to HQ SSA in Baltimore for review/approval.

 

The application was approved by Baltimore quickly like approx August...two months before October.  However, just days after the approval  a Jul and Aug combined payment was received...and then the approval notice that showed up in snail mail showed a June benefits start date vs October.  We immediately contacted Baltimore and Manila....explained the problem...and Baltimore started the process to pullback/recover the Jul and Aug payments and they had to recover those payments before they could correct the wife's Benefit Begin date to Oct.   The wife wanted the benefit to begin in Oct vs Jun and it made a significant difference in the monthly payment amount and added up to a lot over her expected remaining lifetime.....plus, it was simply October--not June--that she wanted and had requested.  Manila even admitted to their typo/mistake in an intra-agency message according to a Baltimore rep I had talked to.

 

Well, Baltimore recalled the payment from Bangkok Bank and within a few days of that payment being pulled back another payment for September arrived.  Once again, we are on the phone to Baltimore and Manila...Manila really can't do nothing as Baltimore has the lead.  Manila is mostly a middle man for a lot of SSA issues.

 

Now, for the next 4-6 months and "many" phone calls to Baltimore, the Baltimore SSA boys & girls had major problems in getting the Benefits Begin date adjusted properly to Oct...they kept blaming it on "IT system checks and balances, issues.   And this period of "fixing" the issue the Medicare folks started sending the wife premium notices since her SSA pension hadn't been restarted/reset correctly to October and the wife's SSA payment were in limbo....payments that would automatically pay her Medicare premium.   Baltimore finally got it fixed by actually deleting the wife's application (which had the Manila caused typo) from their magic computer system which took multiple supervisors' approval to do so and then re-entering on the Baltimore end.  That got the problem fixed and its been OK since.   

 

What a nightmare it was. But it "finally" got fixed....but it took around 4 to 6 months of many phone calls, emails, snail mail forms, etc.   The SSA is definitely a bureaucracy that can be extremely frustrating and hard to deal with when a significant problem occurs with your pension.   Thanks goodness that a SSA pension like this is a once in a lifetime event when you initially apply for benefits.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Pib

[BB1955]

I had the same issue this year . The first one I mailed off . Just last week I got another . So I signed it copied it both sides and emailed it to Manilla telling them the issue and saying I was mailing this one as well .  We as a group maybe need to contact someone that will listen .....

This was the response I got .

We understand that you have received the reporting form SSA-7162 / SSA-7161. To avoid the suspension of your benefits, please complete the form as soon as possible and mail it back to Wilkes-Barre, PA using the enclosed business reply envelope. We recommend using regular postal mail, as registered mail and some courier services may be unable to deliver to a P.O. box. It is not necessary to send a copy of the form to the Federal Benefits Unit in Manila. To ensure that your benefits continue without interruption, please do not submit the completed form to the Federal Benefits Unit in Manila or to a U.S. Embassy/Consulate.

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by BB1955

[cjinchiangrai]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:46 PM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I once had a registered letter to Wilkes Barre returned as undeliverable even though I used the envelope that came with the 7162 form. It got as far as the USPS facility in New York and was then sent back to me. 

 

Back in July, I emailed the FBU in Manila with a scan of my completed 7162 attached and mentioned that I was going to send the original by post to Wilkes Barre. They replied that it was not necessary to send the original. You might try emailing them with a scan along with an explanation of your situation. Perhaps also send a copy by regular airmail to Wilkes Barre.

 

[email protected]

I just got a second notice after not getting the first one. DeJoys post office at it's finest. It is a similar tactic used in keeping people off the voter rolls.

 

I also sent a scan to Manila. They said that I needed to send it to Wilkes Barre, I replied that SSA had been notified.

 

Why they do not email the forms is beyond me. Using snail mail does not work well

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Why they do not email the forms is beyond me. Using snail  mail does not work well

I will guess so that they can verify the address whether you are physically there or not.

[Pib]

As FYI in case anyone does have their benefit suspended in January because the SSA didn't receive a 7162/7161 from the 1st or 2nd notice, below snapshot/partial quote shows the Manila Federal Benefit Unit (FBU) responsibilities in trying to locate the beneficiary  and get the FEQ answered (i.e., FEQ is formal name for the 7162/7161 program).   Also shown is the duties of Office of International Operations (OIO) in Baltimore which is like the headquarters office for the FEQ program.   Review the SSA weblink for full details.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302655010

 

 

[Pib]

And the Manila FBU has a responsibility/duty to participate in the Foreign Enforcement Program (FEQ) per SSA regulation.   

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0200905350

 

 

[Pib]

Another SSA regulation stating Manila FBU responsibilities in the FEQ program like what they need to do if you forward your 7161/7162 to the Manila FBU.  WBDOC below stands for Wilkes Barre Data Operations Center.   The Manila FBU has certain FEQ responsibilities and per SSA regulation just can't blow you off.

 

 

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302655007

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

19 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

I just got a second notice after not getting the first one. DeJoys post office at it's finest. It is a similar tactic used in keeping people off the voter rolls.

 

I also sent a scan to Manila. They said that I needed to send it to Wilkes Barre, I replied that SSA had been notified.

 

Why they do not email the forms is beyond me. Using snail mail does not work well

On July 9th, I advised the FBU as follows: "Please see attached completed Form 7162. I will be mailing the original to SSA in Wilkes-Barre. Kindly note the applicable SSA records accordingly."

 

FBU's reply: 
"Good morning,Thank you for sending the completed SSA 7162. There is no need to mail the original form in Wilkes-Barre office.

Best regards.
Social Security Administration – Federal Benefits Unit"
 

 

In spite of the FBU's advice, I sent the first 7162 by registered mail on 19 July to Wilkes-Barre. The letter reached the USPS international receiving facility on July 30th but was not delivered to Wilkes-Barre until October 3rd. It apparently sat for two months upon arrival. 

 

Since I did receive the second notice, I can only conclude that Wilkes Barre was unable to process my 7162 between receipt on October 3 and the printing of the second request on October 27th.

 

I mailed the second 7162 by regular airmail late last week.

 

Still no sign of a 7161 for my daughter's benefits.

 

 

[connda]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

In spite of the FBU's advice, I sent the first 7162 by registered mail on 19 July to Wilkes-Barre. The letter reached the USPS international receiving facility on July 30th but was not delivered to Wilkes-Barre until October 3rd. It apparently sat for two months upon arrival. 

I've had exactly that same thing happen.  I know others who have had that happen to.
I swear that USPS is deliberately sitting on 7162 the receive that are tracked, toss them in a bin, and don't deliver them until after the SSA 7162 cut off date.  It really does look deliberate as malicious as that sounds. 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

I've had exactly that same thing happen.  I know others who have had that happen to.
I swear that USPS is deliberately sitting on 7162 the receive that are tracked, toss them in a bin, and don't deliver them until after the SSA 7162 cut off date.  It really does look deliberate as malicious as that sounds. 

I am not quite sure what to think. I've had similar delays when sending my tax returns to the IRS by registered mail. It could be a number of things:

 

1) Louis DeJoy demolishing the USPS in general (possible).

2) Deliberate side-tracking of SSA-bound mail (less likely, but I suppose is possible).

3) Issues with how registered mail is handled and the paperwork/custody involved (more likely)

4. Issues with CBP and how they clear inbound mail. (possible)

5. All of the above to greater or lesser extent (most likely).

[elektrified]

I'm trying to contact the FBU in the Philippines using the FBU inquiry form. Does anyone know where the "BNC" number is on the 7162 Form? I don't see any number that is 13-16 digits. All of the numbers on the form are either less than 13 or more than 16 digits!  Thanks in advance.

 

Beneficiary Notice Control (BNC) Number:

The BNC# is a 13-16 digit alpha-numerical code that is found in the upper righthand corner of most SSA notices (below the return address and date).

Edited November 23, 2022 by elektrified

[Pib]

46 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I'm trying to contact the FBU in the Philippines using the FBU inquiry form. Does anyone know where the "BNC" number is on the 7162 Form? I don't see any number that is 13-16 digits. All of the numbers on the form are either less than 13 or more than 16 digits!  Thanks in advance.

 

Beneficiary Notice Control (BNC) Number:

The BNC# is a 13-16 digit alpha-numerical code that is found in the upper righthand corner of most SSA notices (below the return address and date).

A BNC is meant to replace social security numbers on  SSA forms but it's still multi-year work in progress.  Some SSA forms have BNC numbers to replace a person's SSN (example are COLA notices that reflect a BNC but no SSN) ....others still reflect SSN vs a BNC like the 7162.   SSA currently estimates it will by FY22/23 when SSN will be replaced by a BIC on the 7162 form.   Summary: The 7162 is one of the forms that still reflects your SSN vs a BNC number....currently there is no BNC on a 7162.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/legislation/Removing Social Security Numbers from Mailed Documents FY 2022.pdf

 

 

 

 

[flexomike]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:03 PM, Pib said:

@Pronto2@oncebefore

 

Both of you mentioned you received the 2nd notice this week (week of 14 Nov).   To determine how long it took to get to you thru the mail what date was on the 2nd notice and/or included 7162?   Sometimes the date is just a line printed at the "very top" of the form which indicates when it was generated and should have been mailed very shortly after that.

 

And what part of Thailand are you located in as different parts get foreign mail faster/slower than other parts?

 

According to SSA instructions/regulation the SSA is suppose to mail the 2nd notice sometime in September....see partial quote at bottom.   But maybe since the SSA hasn't mailed the form for the past two years they took longer to get the 2nd notice mailed out.   If you just got the form that seems like a long time in the mail system unless a date on the 2nd notice/7162 indicates it was generated/mailed much later than September...like maybe mid-late Oct.   I get mail from the SSA/other govt agencies to my Bangkok home in around two weeks.

 

It may be too early for any of us to feel we are not on a 2nd notice list "if", repeat, if the 2nd notice wasn't mailed in September, but instead mailed recently (like mid-late Oct) and we just haven't received the notice yet.  Plus, 16-18 Nov are APEC special holidays here in the Bangkok area which may slow down mail getting delivered all over the country...I sure know the last day I saw the mailman in my Bangkok moobaan was Tuesday/15 Nov as he is now enjoying the special holidays.   He might be back to work on Saturday/19 Nov....then again, maybe not until Mon/21 Nov.

 

me and the wife got our second notice today even though we sent the first one in early July which was marked as received last month, the date on the letter for the second notice was October 27, sent another set in today just to be safe

 

 

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, flexomike said:

me and the wife got our second notice today even though we sent the first one in early July which was marked as received last month, the date on the letter for the second notice was October 27, sent another set in today just to be safe

I expect your early July mailing was via "registered" airmail vs regular airmail?  

[flexomike]

51 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect your early July mailing was via "registered" airmail vs regular airmail?  

yes it was registered, tracked it all the way to received. I am sure they got it but sent in a second set for both me and the wife to be safe.