Royal Thai Police orders officers to stop revealing nationality information of foreigners arrested to the media

[kwilco]

A can be seen by many of the comments on this thread, necessarily revealing the nationality of those arrested can lead to racist responses and a lot of confirmation bias.

i'm also aware of a serious crime where the alleged offender's nationality was misreported - probably intentionally.

 

But when it really matters the RTP and those responsible for compiling statistics do not take into account whether or not the victims are Thai or foreign. Actually even then we don't really need to know their nationality merely that they are not Thai nationals.

[cheapcanuck]

I'll give you 3 guesses on which country complained.

1 China 

2 China

3 China

Any questions?

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, cheapcanuck said:

I'll give you 3 guesses on which country complained.

1 China 

2 China

3 China

Any questions?

Why?

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

A can be seen by many of the comments on this thread, necessarily revealing the nationality of those arrested can lead to racist responses and a lot of confirmation bias.

i'm also aware of a serious crime where the alleged offender's nationality was misreported - probably intentionally.

 

But when it really matters the RTP and those responsible for compiling statistics do not take into account whether or not the victims are Thai or foreign. Actually even then we don't really need to know their nationality merely that they are not Thai nationals.

There have been numerous recent reports of Chinese nationals overstaying their visas  and having dodgy visas from schools and there were suggestions it was the tip of the iceberg and it would be fully investigated .

   Is  it just a coincidence that the authorities have told the media NOT to mention perpetrators nationality NOW , now that Chinese seem to be in the spotlight ?

[In the jungle]

4 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I think it will be like the re-enactments that police were supposedly ordered to stop doing with great fanfare but continued without a pause.

 

Reporters have to pay the police for access to film arrested criminals and crime scene articles.  A favorite photo is a picture of an arrested foreigners passport.  I can't see them stopping that, even if China is making a fuss. 

 

Anyway the big triad cheese "Tuhao", married to a Thai police colonel, is Thai and, according to Chinese law, should have given up his Chinese nationality when he got Thai nationality, or had it revoked when the Thai Interior Ministry wrote to the Chinese embassy to advise them he had got Thai nationality, as they do.  So reports should just emphasise that he is Thai, until such a time as he is convicted and a court orders the revocation of his Thai nationality.

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that the Chinese gangster married to a Thai police colonel might have got his Thai citizenship corruptly?

[fobuff]

RUSSIA

[riclag]

Oh sure just lump us all together! It was the 

FALANG’s fault!

 

Very wrong ! When are they going to realize, countries cultures and morals are not the same !

[Chongalulu]

13 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

For the police, yes, but for the public! Why does the public need to know this? 

 

Other police states are available to live in should you wish to live in one of those closed dictatorships…. ????‍♂️ 

[nigelforbes]

11 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Other police states are available to live in should you wish to live in one of those closed dictatorships…. ????‍♂️ 

Say what! You have a bad night last night or something?

 

Be constructive. Tell me one single benefit to the general population of telling everyone the nationality of people who commit crimes.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by nigelforbes

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

Say what! You have a bad night last night or something?

 

Be constructive. Tell me one single benefit to the general population of telling everyone the nationality of people who commit crimes.

 

 

 

 

It’s called being in a society where freedom of information is a central tenet. In fact it has a name "Freedom of information act" which applies in democracies the likes of USA and UK etc. 

Perhaps if you you took the trouble to better inform yourself of its philosophy and understood the benefits of living in an informed society you might have fewer "bad nights" yourself… "say what" (sic) ??? 

[nigelforbes]

13 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

It’s called being in a society where freedom of information is a central tenet. In fact it has a name "Freedom of information act" which applies in democracies the likes of USA and UK etc. 

Perhaps if you you took the trouble to better inform yourself of its philosophy and understood the benefits of living in an informed society you might have fewer "bad nights" yourself… "say what" (sic) ??? 

Freedom of information act, democracy, where do you think you are! Once again, give me one good reason why that information is of value to the population?

Edited December 27, 2022 by nigelforbes

[nigelforbes]

9 minutes ago, BananaStrong said:

Could be worse for the farang if living in………

Some people seem to want the best of both worlds, all the rights and privileges of back home, along with the freedoms and benefits of being here. They'll be wanting the vote next.

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, cheapcanuck said:

I'll give you 3 guesses on which country complained.

1 China 

2 China

3 China

Any questions?

Such a big ego... such a fragile ego.....

[sqwakvfr]

Then I have a request as well:  Stop asking me “where you come from?”.  

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 12/26/2022 at 3:13 AM, ukrules said:

China ????

Bingo.

 

Spineless and cowardly decision but we all know who is the new boss here now.

[Mr Meeseeks]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 Is  it just a coincidence that the authorities have told the media NOT to mention perpetrators nationality NOW , now that Chinese seem to be in the spotlight ?

There are no coincidences here.

 

Chinese triad activity has been clamped down upon as it has encroached on local activity and the communists have complained. 

 

It doesn't get more obvious.

 

Thailand and China share that trait of using threats and intimidation to keep people from telling the truth.

 

[John Drake]

Quote

TPN media notes that this is not a law and it would not be a violation for the press to post the nationality of a foreigner if they have that information. Instead, it is a policy change for Thai police.

So, I'll bet the media will still manage to give the nationality of Europeans and Americans. They just will not be able to discover the identity of Chinese and Russians. No news then becomes no crime.

[Mr Meeseeks]

30 minutes ago, John Drake said:

So, I'll bet the media will still manage to give the nationality of Europeans and Americans. They just will not be able to discover the identity of Chinese and Russians. No news then becomes no crime.

Very perceptive and I would assume this to be the case also.

 

 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Freedom of information act, democracy, where do you think you are! Once again, give me one good reason why that information is of value to the population?

Errr…here!

"The Official Information Act 1997 (Thai: พระราชบัญญัติข้อมูลข่าวสารของราชการ พ. ศ. ๒๕๔๐) is a Thai act which guarantees the people's right to have full access to government information."
Clearly,wilful ignorance to an embarrassing degree is your preferred status,especially if you need explaining to you the benefits of knowledge and information. Perhaps using them to inform your opinions may result in making less embarrassing faux pas in future..? 

[nigelforbes]

5 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Errr…here!

"The Official Information Act 1997 (Thai: พระราชบัญญัติข้อมูลข่าวสารของราชการ พ. ศ. ๒๕๔๐) is a Thai act which guarantees the people's right to have full access to government information."
Clearly,wilful ignorance to an embarrassing degree is your preferred status,especially if you need explaining to you the benefits of knowledge and information. Perhaps using them to inform your opinions may result in making less embarrassing faux pas in future..? 

You're a funny guy chuckles, here, laugh at this:

 

The first get out clause is here:

 

"A global principle states that state agencies are not to release information unless they are convinced that the request is necessary for the protection of the rights and liberties of an individual person or is beneficial to the public (section 11^[4]). Good luck trying to convince them of that!

 

The real killer though is here:

 

Other exemptions exist, although they are not absolute, and thus may or may not be a motive for the prohibition of the disclosure of official information. They are listed under section 15 and include information which may jeopardize the national security or international relations, information which may endanger the life or safety of a person, and medical reports. A Royal Decree can at any time add an element to the list of exemptions. International relations, hmmm, how about if we tell everyone how many criminals we caught from your country, that should go down well don't you think!

 

How can I cancel your request, let me count the ways!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Information_Act_1997#:~:text=The Official Information Act guarantees,”)%2C including the right to

 

And I have to say chuckles, you've just been unpleasant or obnoxious from the get go on this topic, you don't seem to have grasped the concept of intelligent civilized debate very well so I'm not sure how long this is going to last.

 

 

[Chongalulu]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

You're a funny guy chuckles, here, laugh at this:

 

The first get out clause is here:

 

"A global principle states that state agencies are not to release information unless they are convinced that the request is necessary for the protection of the rights and liberties of an individual person or is beneficial to the public (section 11^[4]). Good luck trying to convince them of that!

 

The real killer though is here:

 

Other exemptions exist, although they are not absolute, and thus may or may not be a motive for the prohibition of the disclosure of official information. They are listed under section 15 and include information which may jeopardize the national security or international relations, information which may endanger the life or safety of a person, and medical reports. A Royal Decree can at any time add an element to the list of exemptions. International relations, hmmm, how about if we tell everyone how many criminals we caught from your country, that should go down well don't you think!

 

How can I cancel your request, let me count the ways!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Information_Act_1997#:~:text=The Official Information Act guarantees,”)%2C including the right to

 

And I have to say chuckles, you've just been unpleasant or obnoxious from the get go on this topic, you don't seem to have grasped the concept of intelligent civilized debate very well so I'm not sure how long this is going to last.

 

 

It appears you are unable to comprehend the nature of what you quoted. Indeed if you wanted to know the nationalities of say those convicted of crimes  or the proportion of the prison population by nationality, that is indeed deemed in the national interest,that’s why it is available and frequently published in MSM. IT is certainly not detrimental to national security,nor deemed sensitive (as per the other principle you quoted)  or to contravene Data Protection laws . If you’re going to quote acts or principles you should first check if they’re relevant  to subject matter discussed.

Finally ,you may further wish to look up 'hypocrisy' when complaining about unpleasantness while simultaneously resorting to lame playground name calling. If you desire civilised ,intelligent debate you would be well advised to apply that to your own submissions.

[Sydebolle]

Well, well, what do we know? Did the Nigerian president call the Uncle or was it the Bigwig of the Red Brethren in the North?

In all fairness, most crimes are committed by the hosts here yet go much lesser reported as there is considerably less meat on the bone compared to the dirty aliens, the farangs, the jeks and the visitors of the more colourful continents - me thinks! 

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

It appears you are unable to comprehend the nature of what you quoted. Indeed if you wanted to know the nationalities of say those convicted of crimes  or the proportion of the prison population by nationality, that is indeed deemed in the national interest,that’s why it is available and frequently published in MSM. IT is certainly not detrimental to national security,nor deemed sensitive (as per the other principle you quoted)  or to contravene Data Protection laws . If you’re going to quote acts or principles you should first check if they’re relevant  to subject matter discussed.

Finally ,you may further wish to look up 'hypocrisy' when complaining about unpleasantness while simultaneously resorting to lame playground name calling. If you desire civilised ,intelligent debate you would be well advised to apply that to your own submissions.

You seem not to have even clicked on the link I provided and read about the criticism the act has received and the foot dragging and stonewalling that the authorities are accused of in responding to requests by the public. It's one thing to have an act in place but it's something else entirely to have one in place that is useable to the extent envisaged by your use of the Western term, Freedom of Information Act. The realities are that the act is there in name only and little more, who can be surprised that is the case.

 

But enough of your deflections, for the third and final time of asking, give me one good reason why that information is of value to the population?

[JimGant]

20 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

My question is, why is it important to know the nationality, why is it even necessary?

Well, duh -- take a situation where a series of street muggings and robbery have taken place. I'd sure like to know what groups to avoid on the street. If reported as Thai, that would be a non-starter. But if reported as Nigerian, then I'd cross the street when approaching a group of blacks, assuming the worst -- which most likely wouldn't be the case. Blatant prejudice? Indeed. But humans can't evaluate every individual, thus we're dependent on making decisions about groups. Political correctness necessarily takes a back seat to self preservation. And I'd want the press to give me a 'heads up' on who I should consider avoiding, if I'd evaluated the situation as not being an isolated situation by a certain nationality (or race, on a broader scale).

 

Try living in Wash DC. The Wash Post has for years refrained from reporting the race of all the street crime perps. So, of course, we know who they are -- 'cause if a white dude is involved in a street crime, the Post jumps all over that. As it should, as this is 'news' in Wash DC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, duh -- take a situation where a series of street muggings and robbery have taken place. I'd sure like to know what groups to avoid on the street. If reported as Thai, that would be a non-starter. But if reported as Nigerian, then I'd cross the street when approaching a group of blacks, assuming the worst -- which most likely wouldn't be the case. Blatant prejudice? Indeed. But humans can't evaluate every individual, thus we're dependent on making decisions about groups. Political correctness necessarily takes a back seat to self preservation. And I'd want the press to give me a 'heads up' on who I should consider avoiding, if I'd evaluated the situation as not being an isolated situation by a certain nationality (or race, on a broader scale).

 

Try living in Wash DC. The Wash Post has for years refrained from reporting the race of all the street crime perps. So, of course, we know who they are -- 'cause if a white dude is involved in a street crime, the Post jumps all over that. As it should, as this is 'news' in Wash DC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crimes of violence by or against foreigners in Thailand are uncommon, perpetrators are far more more likely statistically speaking to be Thai. Crimes that are reported in the media tend to be more economic in nature. My question stands. 

[zzaa09]

13 hours ago, riclag said:

Oh sure just lump us all together! It was the 

FALANG’s fault!

 

Very wrong ! When are they going to realize, countries cultures and morals are not the same !

These ideals should be brought into consideration when referencing non-Farang cultures as well, which is usually not the case. Perfectly satisfactory to harbour the usual and conditioned stereotypes towards those people, yet convenient when such doesn't apply to Farang - 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:10 AM, freedomnow said:

We are all getting tarred with the one brush now.

Nonsense.   How is it affecting those who aren't committing offences?

[JimGant]

5 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Crimes that are reported in the media tend to be more economic in nature. My question stands. 

So, if a disproportionate amount of economic crime is committed by the Chinese -- you're saying this is not newsworthy?

[nigelforbes]

22 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, if a disproportionate amount of economic crime is committed by the Chinese -- you're saying this is not newsworthy?

Disproportionate to what, the number of Chinese people in Thailand, the number of similar crimes committed by locals etc etc? Something like that might be newsworthy as a one off but reporting every crime by nationality is not because it eventually makes people fear Chinese (or other nationality) because that's what they keep hearing on the news when most are normal honest people. 

 

You can see from the posts in this thread already that many posters are anti-Chinese based on almost no knowledge of them whatsoever, apart from the theory that Covid was spread by them. 

 

Identifying people by race or ethnic background is a wholly bad idea because after a while it tars everyone with the same brush and pretty soon the entire group is viewed as pariahs.. The jews and the rest of the world thought that under Hitler; the Rohingya in Myanmar feel the same way too; black people in the West, especially in the US believe that also; Mexicans in the US agree; Burmese in Thailand also agree; Palestinians agree, Serbs and Croats thought so,  the Uighurs in China think so, Aborigines' are the same and the Shia in Saudi agree, and so on and so on.  

[freedomnow]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense.   How is it affecting those who aren't committing offences?

Well, right now it isn't as it has not even been implimented yet.....but by not tagging crimes to nations it simply becomes "those frikin' foreigners again" over time without any discernment.....then it will be on par with UK views ...hahaha.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by freedomnow