Sell or rent?

[liana3legend]

57 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

So you would have been up 19 M so to speak.

 

Not a figure to scoff at if the neighbouring places achieved 22 M in 2020 & 20 M in 2022, i.e. about a 10% drop in 2 years which is about right.

 

If these are figures you can get confirmations on, it would sound like the developer gave you a good offer, that is, unless those 2 properties sold for more, much much more and he is looking to make a quick couple of M by possibly having a buyer lined up, example: If he buys yours for 19 M.

 

In my opinion no one offers close to what other properties sold for in a downward market, unless they can see that they are going to make a good profit, e.g. 19 M outlay, plus stamp duties/taxes/holding costs/agents fees, he would want to get at least 5% net after the above expenses, because one could get half that return from the banks without the risk of how long it would take to sell to find a buyer in this market for a little extra.

 

If he buys it for 19 M he could be doing you a favour, think twice, e.g. confirm what the other 2 properties sold for and not what you have heard verbally, then you can make a clearer decision whether to go back to him with a counter offer, or get an agent involved, but don't sign up with them for too long or you could find yourself stuck with a non performing agent and contract hard to get out of because of the sign up period.

 

At the end of the day, don't listen to verbal offers/stories, once you have confirmation on the above, then you can make an informed decision, but please be wary of developers, because you might except the offer, but then he doesn't perform, then offers you something lower.

 

Best of luck.

Thank you very very much! It is very appreciated. In fact, because one of my neighbors sold theirs (no renovation, no pool grouting, bad paint and etc.) for 35 M in 2020, I didn't accept the developer's offer. Currently a realtor is working with me. I will see how it goes after it's been listed. 

[liana3legend]

19 minutes ago, lkn said:

Based on the most recent market price of your condo being 19M, this sounds too high.

 

I don’t know where in Thailand your villa is located, but compare with prices of staying at high end hotels in your area. I mean, if you do a one year rental for 250K/month, that’s 3 million baht for a year, and if the renter is only here 6 months/year, that gives them a hotel budget of 16,000 baht/night.

 

Based on the estimated price (19M), I would expect your place to rent for around 120,000-150,000 baht/month.

 

Now subtract your fixed cost of 40,000 baht/month, the agent fee (one month for each year rented out), and possibly maintenance and repairs (of which there might be more, when renting it out), and I think trying to sell this place is the best option.

 

And of course, if your realtor lists your place at unrealistic high prices, it will be vacant most of the time, generating no revenue.

 

As for the cost of selling, you normally pay a 3% agent fee and a 2% transfer fee for the title deed, but since this is leasehold, I don’t know how that works. There is also 0.5% stamp duty. The withholding tax, again, not sure if this is the same with leasehold, but for freehold, it’s based on years owned and the appraised value. The easiest is to get an estimate from your Land Office, they can do this.

Thanks a bunch! Actually, I live in a villa of a hotel resort in Phuket. That's why I have been talking about leasehold agreement that is due in 11 years. In fact, I promised to my realtor a 5% plus exclusivity, and I decide the selling price. I never believed in a "free lunch", but if I don't ask for it, I will never know an answer. Because the selling price was written on a piece of paper, I want to start that first. I will need a lot of luck, but I also don't want to give it up at the moment. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by liana3legend

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, liana3legend said:

Thank you very very much! It is very appreciated. In fact, because one of my neighbors sold theirs (no renovation, no pool grouting, bad paint and etc.) for 35 M in 2020, I didn't accept the developer's offer. Currently a realtor is working with me. I will see how it goes after it's been listed. 

Your welcome, and my apologies, I thought I read 22 M in 2020 and 20 M in 2022, my bad.

 

Yes it would appear he is trying to nick it so to speak.

 

If your in no rush, as the sale of the next door property in 2022 sold for just under 25 M and is relatively comparable, you could shave a little off of that, depending how far back in 2022 it sold, e.g. February, May and so on, even at 5% your still ahead, i.e. around 23 + M, so you have a lot of room to work with from the developers offer of 19 M.

 

Good luck. 

[liana3legend]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Your welcome, and my apologies, I thought I read 22 M in 2020 and 20 M in 2022, my bad.

 

Yes it would appear he is trying to nick it so to speak.

 

If your in no rush, as the sale of the next door property in 2022 sold for just under 25 M and is relatively comparable, you could shave a little off of that, depending how far back in 2022 it sold, e.g. February, May and so on, even at 5% your still ahead, i.e. around 23 + M, so you have a lot of room to work with from the developers offer of 19 M.

 

Good luck. 

Thank you! At least I know where my bottom line is. ???? 

[Orinoco]

If it was a free be, nothing lost.

No  one will buy it, to much money and lease hold !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rent it out or live in it,  it's free money, as you never bought it in the first place.

Then let it go back to the real owner, that was his long term plan. 

like all  30 years lease hold in this place.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Orinoco

[Aussieroaming]

Work out your rental return for 11 years minus any outgoings. If the nett sum exceeds the sale figure that is reasonably achievable then renting is the best economic option and you can then walk from the lease at the expiration of the current lease.

 

 

 

Or sell and accept whatever profit you get. Real estate isn't fantastic here, though some seem to make profit on sales. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by metisdead
Extra spacing removed.

[liana3legend]

24 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

Work out your rental return for 11 years minus any outgoings. If the nett sum exceeds the sale figure that is reasonably achievable then renting is the best economic option and you can then walk from the lease at the expiration of the current lease.

Thank you! It's a reasonable idea, but I don't want to live under uncertainty for the next 11 years.

 

24 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

 

Or sell and accept whatever profit you get. Real estate isn't fantastic here, though some seem to make profit on sales. 

 

It's an option, most definitely, but the future is unpredictable. What if I kick the bucket in between? ????

 

[ThailandRyan]

9 million Thb for a 30 year leasehold, what the hell, is the land made of gold?.  I have a house with a 30 year leasehold that was only 900k Thb for the entire 30 years, or basically 30k Thb a year, or 2,500 Thb a month which is less than my PEA bill. Your 9 million Thb leasehold equates to a payment of 25k Thb a month. I sure hope the home was worth 10x your leasehold. Insanity. For what I paid for my house and the leasehold I could walk away at the end of 30 years and it would not have cost me any more than a 30 year rental on a similar house which would have run 30K Thb a month, a true bargain.  

 

Short sell the house, and walk away if you want to retain any money. At the end of the day and after 30 years I will probably have been turned to ashes, as I will be almost 90..........

Edited January 31, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[liana3legend]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

9 million Thb for a 30 year leasehold, what the hell, is the land made of gold?.  I have a house with a l30 year leasehold that was only 900k Thb for the entire 30 years, or basically 30k Thb a year, or 2,500 Thb a month which is less than my PEA bill. Your 9 million Thb leasehold equates to a payment of 25k Thb a month. I sure hope the home was worth 10x your leasehold. Insanity. For what I paid for my house and the leasehold I could walk away at the end of 30 years and it would not have cost me any more than a 30 year rental on a similar house which would have run 30K Thb a month, a true bargain.  

 

Short sell the house, and walk away if you want to retain any money. At the end of the day and after 30 years I will probably have been turned to ashes, as I will be almost 90..........

You made me laugh. ???? Thanks for your math class! 

Edited January 31, 2023 by liana3legend

[ThailandRyan]

So I misread the Ops post and apparently it was a 30 year lease on the House and not the land, or did I read that wrong the second time. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, liana3legend said:

You made me laugh. ???? Thanks for your math class! 

Well it's correct if your talking leasehold versus Lease.  Was the house leased for 30 years and the 30 year lease paid upfront?  If that's the case who decided the neighbors properties were worth the millions they supposedly sold the leases for? Did I misread the information? Was the home purchased and then the land it sits on a leasehold? If thats the case and there is 11 years left on the leasehold, if the house was sold would the new owner be able to negotiate a new 30 year lease or would they only have the remaining time on the current lease.  If the house was leased for 30 years then basically it would appear your only selling the remaining lease such as a sublet.

[liana3legend]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So I misread the Ops post and apparently it was a 30 year lease on the House and not the land, or did I read that wrong the second time. 

It's the land lease.

[liana3legend]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Well it's correct if your talking leasehold versus Lease.  Was the house leased for 30 years and the 30 year lease paid upfront?  If that's the case who decided the neighbors properties were worth the millions they supposedly sold the leases for? Did I misread the information? Was the home purchased and then the land it sits on a leasehold? If thats the case and there is 11 years left on the leasehold, if the house was sold would the new owner be able to negotiate a new 30 year lease or would they only have the remaining time on the current lease.  If the house was leased for 30 years then basically it would appear your only selling the remaining lease such as a sublet.

Technically, I only sell the remaining time of the leasehold of the land, though the developer has already granted us 30 year + 30 year (total of 90 years), so the renewal won't be a problem.

[Elkski]

Excellent exchange of knowledge in this thread.  I'm totally ignorant on this type of leasehold property or property in Thailand. 

So my questions may be dumb. 

Did those comparable units have the same lease term expiry date?

Were they exact duplicate units? 

Is that 200-250k/mo rent based on other units being rented out recently?

I calculated and your benefactor figured it was worth 25k/mo back 19 years ago. And currently you have about 40k/mo in operating costs per month.  Are other units being let for 200k/ mo? On a yearly basis or monthly?

If it was a good deal 19 years ago at 25k/ no.  And  now rent is 200 a 8x increase then perhaps in 10 years for now rent could be  1mil/no. So I don't think you calculate based on a constant rental rate of 200-250.  Of course maintenance costs will rise also. 

Is it fully furnished?  

This is a very complicated deal and interesting.  Do any of the villas have short term guests? It sounds very fancy and some of those resorts are north of 10k/night. 

[Elkski]

So was the house included in the initial leasehold or built by your benefactor? Not that it really matters to much if all these units are the same floorplan. 

If you have promises of 2 more 30 years leases do you have a price for that? Or is it the original 25k/mo?

Another question is do Thai people live in some units? Is it popular with Thais because how many foreigners are confident they will be able to get visas for the long term?  Do you have heirs? That are 39 now and want to call Thailand their home?

[Salerno]

21 minutes ago, liana3legend said:

the developer has already granted us 30 year + 30 year (total of 90 years), so the renewal won't be a problem.

I thought the only legal term was one 30 year term and any 30x30x30 can be reneged on at any time?

 

Edit: Quick search and this popped out at the top of the list: https://www.jftb-real-estate-phuket.com/blog/thailand-property-the-lease-of-30-30-30-is-illegal.html

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Salerno

[liana3legend]

4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

I thought the only legal term was one 30 year term and any 30x30x30 can be reneged on at any time?

That is correct, and that is the case.

 

4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Edit: Quick search and this popped out at the top of the list: https://www.jftb-real-estate-phuket.com/blog/thailand-property-the-lease-of-30-30-30-is-illegal.html

 

 

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, liana3legend said:

That is correct, and that is the case.

Yes, just read this one too https://www.thephuketnews.com/property/the-downfalls-and-risks-of-a-303030-leasehold-in-thailand/

 

As I said originally, personally, I'd sell up and use the money to set myself up nicely somewhere else, I couldn't be bothered with the uncertainties. That said, I obviously have no idea if you have any sentimental attachment to the property or area.

[liana3legend]

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Yes, just read this one too https://www.thephuketnews.com/property/the-downfalls-and-risks-of-a-303030-leasehold-in-thailand/

It's an interesting article to read. I wouldn't buy a leasehold property here especially having read so many comments/problems on other topics.

 

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

As I said originally, personally, I'd sell up and use the money to set myself up nicely somewhere else, I couldn't be bothered with the uncertainties. That said, I obviously have no idea if you have any sentimental attachment to the property or area.

Sadly, this is the property my deceased hubby left me. We even had our wedding ceremony at our villa. He achieved his will (departed from here that he lived the longest period during his lifetime). I do have feelings attach to this house, of course, but I need to move on with my own life. 

[Tropposurfer]

21 hours ago, proton said:

Burn it down for the insurance money? ????

Oooo you are naughty????????

[Salerno]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:33 PM, liana3legend said:

Sadly, this is the property my deceased hubby left me. We even had our wedding ceremony at our villa. He achieved his will (departed from here that he lived the longest period during his lifetime). I do have feelings attach to this house, of course, but I need to move on with my own life. 

My condolences. I assumed that would be the case but was hoping you had inherited it from a long lost uncle ... that would make the decision so much easier. Best of luck with whatever you finally decide.

[Orinoco]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:33 PM, liana3legend said:

Sadly, this is the property my deceased hubby left me. We even had our wedding ceremony at our villa. He achieved his will (departed from here that he lived the longest period during his lifetime). I do have feelings attach to this house, of course, but I need to move on with my own life. 

Well sounds like time to move on.

Sell it, and start your life a fresh.

Good luck.

[liana3legend]

16 hours ago, Salerno said:

My condolences. I assumed that would be the case but was hoping you had inherited it from a long lost uncle ... that would make the decision so much easier. Best of luck with whatever you finally decide.

Thank you very much for your kind words! I don't see many farangs who have uncles and aunties living with them here. No??? ????

[liana3legend]

16 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Well sounds like time to move on.

Sell it, and start your life a fresh.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot, with your kind wish! 

[liana3legend]

Thank you all very much for your participating in this topic! I feel it is the best issue I have raised here in order to determine my whereabout. My deceased hubby wrote it on a piece of paper with the selling price of 40. I know nobody will believe this would happen. I am a very pessimistic person, and I don't know what the outcome may be, but I am very anxious to know the result.

[A1Str8]

If you won't have enough money to renew then obv sell short.

Edited February 2, 2023 by A1Str8

[Salerno]

4 hours ago, liana3legend said:

I don't see many farangs who have uncles and aunties living with them here. No??? ????

I guess not 5555 But being a glass half full type of guy I'm still waiting for a knock on the door from a solicitor informing me my long lost uncle third removed has left me a small tropical island in his will ????

[liana3legend]

14 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

If you won't have enough money to renew then obv sell short.

That's an approach. ????

[liana3legend]

11 hours ago, Salerno said:

I guess not 5555 But being a glass half full type of guy I'm still waiting for a knock on the door from a solicitor informing me my long lost uncle third removed has left me a small tropical island in his will ????

A round of applauses! I wish.... ????

[mrwebb8825]

If the developer offered 19m ask him to put it in writing with him paying all transfer costs - otherwise counter with 20m and splitting the costs 50-50.

 

I hear View Talay 7 have a few sea-view condos that are still empty.