ATM withdrawal charge

[JensenZ]

*deleted* 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:48 PM, Leaver said:

 

Do Visa and MasterCard charge fees for cash advances? 

The term "cash advance" usually means using a credit card to withdraw funds from your account via ATM or a teller.

 

Most banks charge pretty hefty fees for credit card cash advances, sometimes up to 5% of the amount withdrawn. I believe, some of that goes to the card network (VISA or MC) and the other part of it is kept by the card issuing bank.

 

Using a DEBIT card to pay for purchases or withdraw funds at an ATM or a bank teller is not generally considered or called a cash advance. Since all you're doing in reality is withdrawing your own already on deposit funds from your own account.

 

In the case of foreign DEBIT cards, Thai banks have the typical 220b per withdrawal ATM fee... Though counter withdrawals with a debit card may not have any local fee, depending.

 

And of course, both foreign / home country CREDIT and DEBIT cards may also have a foreign currency conversion fee of up to 3% or more assessed when the card is used outside the country where it was issued.

 

In the worst case scenario, a person trying to use a foreign credit card here for a cash advance could get hit with BOTH a cash advance fee of 5% or more PLUS the foreign currency conversion fee of up to 3% or more.

 

[nycjoe]

On 2/13/2023 at 6:02 AM, JensenZ said:

Banks don't do anything for free. If they don't charge you a fee, they make their money on the exchange rate. The banks always give you a lower exchange rate than most money changers, and probably lower than the MC or VISA rate.

The exchange rate is better than the atm rate

 

[blackshadow]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:06 PM, nycjoe said:

go into the bank with your debit card and passport, no fee, better rates, most banks will do it for you

 

BKK would not do using my debit card....visa card that is

 

[VBF]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:52 AM, jacko45k said:

I was told they would tell you to just go use the ATM on the wall outside. I did use my UK ATM card in Thailand last month... there was the local 220 baht charge, a percentage take hidden in the rate and a small fixed charge by my UK bank. Wise certainly far better. 

Does the Wise card also attract the ATM fee (220 Baht per transaction)? I've asked in different places and got conflicting answers and am considering getting a Wise card  (I already have an account) for my next trip.

[joloit]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:20 AM, KhunBENQ said:

If you take care not to fall into the DCC trap the exchange rates are determined by the card issuer (VISA, Mastercard...).

These rates are not that bad.

DCC: local banks try to let them do the exchange and show you the amount in your currency. If ever you see your currency then cancel/abort.

https://wise.com/us/blog/choose-local-currency-at-foreign-atm

 

In the first years I often used cards.

Since years now using WISE transfer.

Always remember….. when banks offer you something, it‘s always to your disadvantage as a customer. Never ever accept them exchanging the rate for. Very lousy exchange rate!! 

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, VBF said:

Does the Wise card also attract the ATM fee (220 Baht per transaction)? I've asked in different places and got conflicting answers and am considering getting a Wise card  (I already have an account) for my next trip.

I would expect so... it isn't a domestic card.

 

[Upnotover]

10 minutes ago, VBF said:

Does the Wise card also attract the ATM fee (220 Baht per transaction)? I've asked in different places and got conflicting answers and am considering getting a Wise card  (I already have an account) for my next trip.

Yes. it does  And also the monthly free withdrawal limit is very low, GBP200 for instance.  After GBP200 it's GBP0.50 per withdrawal and 1.75% on anything over GBP200.  And if you don't hold a THB balance there will also be a conversion fee.

[thailand49]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:20 PM, KhunBENQ said:

If you take care not to fall into the DCC trap the exchange rates are determined by the card issuer (VISA, Mastercard...).

These rates are not that bad.

DCC: local banks try to let them do the exchange and show you the amount in your currency. If ever you see your currency then cancel/abort.

https://wise.com/us/blog/choose-local-currency-at-foreign-atm

 

In the first years I often used cards.

Since years now using WISE transfer.

For a long time I thought the same whenever the bank ATM show you a breakdown as to what they are offering when showing the rate is much lower and I mean much lower but one think what choice I have so they push continue.

But that isn't the case, when you see the breakdown all you got to do is push " NO " then it will revert back to what the market is giving instead of what the bank wants you to pay.

When I was told this I logged into my account and saw that was the case and not I would have gotten if I push Yes!

 

A few months back not sure of the bank I think it was Siam, I don't use the ATM any longer with foreign card. I normally don't get a breakdown when using a Charles Schwab card but this time I got the breakdown this was a new scam a new format so I read from top to bottom.  That day for example the Bloomberg market was showing 35 baht to the USD, it indicated I was getting 35 but fine print in getting the 35 baht there was now a surcharge of 2% - 5% can remember exact % I did that would have given me like 33 to 1.  if I had push yes!  I aborted because I didn't even want to take a chance. Banks like this I wouldn't give them a time of day!

[MadMuhammad]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:31 PM, Gottfrid said:

Still have to pay when you withdraw

Instant rebate with ING Aus 

 

 

[thailand49]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:09 PM, jacko45k said:

Most certainly the rates they offer posted up on their walls are rather poorer than the TT Exchange down the road, or MC/Visa rates.....

Correct!  Years ago I use mainly ATM to get my money from home with plenty of time on hand did a research and used every ATM on the market All of the Thai Banks, UOB, end result was all were very close then they charged 150, then to 220, the only one that kept it at 150 was Aeon but in Pattaya there were only three location today there is only one. Overall their rate was better than the others plus not charging 220Baht.  If the Bloomberg rate was 33.00 the ATM here would be 32.55 plus the 220, when a few you put them in and they will give you a breakdown the rate was near 31.90 plus the 220, I noticed my Credit Union Visa would do this at the Thai banks except Aeon. If I absolutely had to use the Thai ones when you see the breakdown push NO, you wont get the 31.90 but closer to the 32.55. I also use Charles Schwab, Wells Fargo and that doesn't happen.

 

When it comes to exchange booth in Pattaya I ran around looking at rates by far the most consistent was T.T. many of them are located on Soi Bauhkao, displaying basically the same rate so don't run around the heat looking for lower. The T.T. at Big C extra in the beginning was a bit lower than the ones on Baukhao, post covid I noticed pretty close example if it is 34.00 rate Bloomberg it's  like 33.75 while the ones on Baukhao will be 33.80.

 

Just my two cents experience.

[gamb00ler]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:06 PM, nycjoe said:

go into the bank with your debit card and passport, no fee, better rates, most banks will do it for you

 

I think not many Thai banks do teller "cash advance" (using debit card) for free or at all.  @Pib and I can verify that Bangkok bank provides this service for free.  @Pib also mentioned another Thai bank that does the transaction but charges a small fee.  Kasikorn and SCB do not offer cash advances at the teller.

 

I'm pretty sure that you will get the exact same exchange rate at the ATM and teller, but the maximum withdrawal is generally much larger at the teller.  The rate is adjusted once per day and not at all on weekends.  I can only verify this is true for US based accounts.

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

 

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

[spongeworthy]

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I think not many Thai banks do teller "cash advance" for free or at all.  @Pib and I can verify that Bangkok bank provides this service for free.  @Pib also mentioned another Thai bank that does the transaction but charges a small fee.  Kasikorn and SCB do not offer cash advances at the teller.

 

I'm pretty sure that you will get the exact same exchange rate at the ATM and teller, but the maximum withdrawal is generally much larger at the teller.  The rate is adjusted once per day and not at all on weekends.  I can only verify this is true for US based accounts.

And what is the card cash advance fee that your bank charges? For credit cards a cash advance is typically 3-5%. Does your bank not charge this fee when using a debit card?

[gamb00ler]

1 minute ago, spongeworthy said:

And what is the card cash advance fee that your bank charges? For credit cards a cash advance is typically 3-5%. Does your bank not charge this fee when using a debit card?

I only use two US based debit cards and both of those have no foreign transaction fees.  Charles Schwab and Capital One cards have no fees.  Schwab will also refund the 220 or 150 ฿ fee charged by ATM's in Thailand.

[spongeworthy]

18 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Correct!  Years ago I use mainly ATM to get my money from home with plenty of time on hand did a research and used every ATM on the market All of the Thai Banks, UOB, end result was all were very close then they charged 150, then to 220, the only one that kept it at 150 was Aeon but in Pattaya there were only three location today there is only one. Overall their rate was better than the others plus not charging 220Baht.  If the Bloomberg rate was 33.00 the ATM here would be 32.55 plus the 220, when a few you put them in and they will give you a breakdown the rate was near 31.90 plus the 220, I noticed my Credit Union Visa would do this at the Thai banks except Aeon. If I absolutely had to use the Thai ones when you see the breakdown push NO, you wont get the 31.90 but closer to the 32.55. I also use Charles Schwab, Wells Fargo and that doesn't happen.

 

When it comes to exchange booth in Pattaya I ran around looking at rates by far the most consistent was T.T. many of them are located on Soi Bauhkao, displaying basically the same rate so don't run around the heat looking for lower. The T.T. at Big C extra in the beginning was a bit lower than the ones on Baukhao, post covid I noticed pretty close example if it is 34.00 rate Bloomberg it's  like 33.75 while the ones on Baukhao will be 33.80.

 

Just my two cents experience.

If you are looking for the best rate, have a Thai bank account, and want to transfer enough to get by for 6+ months with a cushion for emergencies, the best rate is a simple wire transfer. From what I can tell when sending USD my bank sends the exact amount and the local bank converts at the current rate with a small fee. I'm getting the current rate found on XE minus a small fee from the Thai bank for the incoming transfer. When transferring enough I'm looking at 0.1% or less in fees from both sides, and with the best exchange rate you can get.

[gamb00ler]

1 minute ago, spongeworthy said:

If you are looking for the best rate, have a Thai bank account, and want to transfer enough to get by for 6+ months with a cushion for emergencies, the best rate is a simple wire transfer. From what I can tell when sending USD my bank sends the exact amount and the local bank converts at the current rate with a small fee. I'm getting the current rate found on XE minus a small fee from the Thai bank for the incoming transfer. When transferring enough I'm looking at 0.1% or less in fees from both sides, and with the best exchange rate you can get.

I haven't checked recently.  About 18 months ago I compared three methods, Wise, SWIFT and debit card cash advance.  SWIFT was better than Wise for amounts above 20K US$, cash advance on debit card (without foreign transaction fees) was best but subject to limits on size due to your banks regulations.

[spongeworthy]

3 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I only use two US based debit cards and both of those have no foreign transaction fees.  Charles Schwab and Capital One cards have no fees.  Schwab will also refund the 220 or 150 ฿ fee charged by ATM's in Thailand.

I also have a Schwab card and have used it occasionally due to the ATM fee refunds (though the exchange rates are still taking a hit).

 

The conversation you responded to was about taking a "cash advance" at a bank teller which is is not the same as an ATM withdrawal or a debit card purchase. I was asking what fee the bank charges for a cash advance on a debit card. I wouldn't be surprised if Schwab doesn't charge a fee, but other banks may.

[Spock]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:25 PM, KhunBENQ said:

AFAIK there is no bank anymore with free withdrawals. The fee is 220 at most banks. AEON charges 150 but limits withdrawal to 20k.

Do the math.

The usual hint: try to withdraw as much as possible with a single take.

Many modern ATMs allow 30k some also 50k.

(seen for SCB, Krungsri and Kasikorn)

But as I don't use cards since ages I can't tell whether it works practically.

Best ATM machines are at fancy places like Central Festival.

I always bring cash to avoid these costs. 

[spongeworthy]

2 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I haven't checked recently.  About 18 months ago I compared three methods, Wise, SWIFT and debit card cash advance.  SWIFT was better than Wise for amounts above 20K US$, cash advance on debit card (without foreign transaction fees) was best but subject to limits on size due to your banks regulations.

So your bank didn't charge you a 3-5% cash advance fee with a debit card, or are you saying it was the best option even with whatever fee they happened to charge?

[gamb00ler]

4 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

The conversation you responded to was about taking a "cash advance" at a bank teller which is is not the same as an ATM withdrawal or a debit card purchase. I was asking what fee the bank charges for a cash advance on a debit card. I wouldn't be surprised if Schwab doesn't charge a fee, but other banks may.

I'm not positive, but I think that the foreign transaction fees that are normally charged by debit and credit card issuers are charged on all ATM withdrawals, normal store purchases and cash advances.  When an institution doesn't impose foreign transaction fees, then NO foreign transaction has that fee applied.

[gamb00ler]

8 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

So your bank didn't charge you a 3-5% cash advance fee with a debit card, or are you saying it was the best option even with whatever fee they happened to charge?

As I stated before.... both cards I use don't have foreign transaction fees on any and all transactions in Thailand.  Both are still subject to the ATM fee of 220 or 150, but Schwab refunds those fees.

[spongeworthy]

2 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I'm not positive, but I think that the foreign transaction fees that are normally charged by debit and credit card issuers are charged on all ATM withdrawals, normal store purchases and cash advances.  When an institution doesn't impose foreign transaction fees, then NO foreign transaction has that fee applied.

I have a "travel" MasterCard that doesn't charge foreign transaction fees but I'm pretty sure my bank would still charge me a cash advance fee, though I've never needed to use a credit card for a cash advance.

[spongeworthy]

3 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

As I stated before.... both cards I use don't have foreign transaction fees on any and all transactions in Thailand.  Both are still subject to the ATM fee of 220 or 150, but Schwab refunds those fees.

Foreign transaction fees and cash advance fees are two different things.

[gamb00ler]

1 minute ago, spongeworthy said:

I have a "travel" MasterCard that doesn't charge foreign transaction fees but I'm pretty sure my bank would still charge me a cash advance fee, though I've never needed to use a credit card for a cash advance.

I'm sure you're referring to a credit card, not a debit card.  That's a different ball game.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

Does your bank not charge this fee when using a debit card?

Withdrawing funds from your checking account with a foreign VISA or MC debit card via a Thai bank counter withdrawal generally incurs no cash advance fee...

 

Because, it's your own already deposited funds that you're withdrawing -- not like a credit card where the bank is extending you what is effectively a temporary loan of their funds until you repay the balance.

 

[bluejets]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:11 AM, sitta said:

Is there any Bank ATM in Pattaya that does NOT charge ATM withdrawal fee?

Get yourself a Thai girl and stick it in her bank account...... ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

I have a "travel" MasterCard that doesn't charge foreign transaction fees but I'm pretty sure my bank would still charge me a cash advance fee, though I've never needed to use a credit card for a cash advance.

Credit cards generally charge cash advance fees... Debit cards generally don't, although there might be some rare exceptions for debit cards.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

Just now, spongeworthy said:

Foreign transaction fees and cash advance fees are two different things.

Since we were talking about debit cards..... a teller withdrawal is not actually a "cash advance".... that's just what everyone calls it.  It is more accurately identified as an electronic debit with simultaneous foreign exchange.  The underlying bank account must already have the funds on deposit... so no "advance".

[spongeworthy]

Just now, gamb00ler said:

I'm sure you're referring to a credit card, not a debit card.  That's a different ball game.

No, I'm referring to a debit card as debit cards also offer the "cash advance" feature which is what people are using at bank tellers here in Thailand to avoid ATM fees, which appears to be what you have done, but with a Schwab card - and those tend to no have typical fees (I'd have to read the card agreement again to see what it states about cash advances).

 

I may have missed some definitive answer on the topic in this thread, but from looking online it appears many banks can and do charge a 3-5% transaction fee when doing a cash advance on a debit card, the same as they do with their credit cards.

 

I may have to just test this myself with a few ATM/Debit cards at a local bank here to see which banks may charge a fee and what rate the local bank gives me. This could prove useful in some situations.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

I was asking what fee the bank charges for a cash advance on a debit card. I wouldn't be surprised if Schwab doesn't charge a fee, but other banks may.

Using a Schwab bank debit card in Thailand, either for an ATM withdrawal or a counter withdrawal, incurs NO fees from Schwab whatsoever -- no cash advance fees when using their debit card, no foreign currency fees and Thai bank ATM fees reimbursed in total.

 

That's why it's one of the best bank cards available for foreign travelers, either short-term or long-term... ????