Sugguestions - electric small city 4 door car.

[scorecard]

Located in Chiang Mai.

 

Son and his wife want to buy a full electric small / very small 4 door city car, mainly for shopping and transport 2 small kids to/from school.

 

All suggestions / comments welcome, including cars from China.

 

Not interested in other comments like 'go hybrid' or similar.

 

As per the heading.

 

One item needing advice. From other comments seems that there should be a 'dedicated charging station' at home.

- Is this true? and Would that reduce the electric bill?

- Can the car be plugged into basic at home power outlet, same as used for TV, fridge, wash machine etc?

 

Thanks.

[Crossy]

The choices from MG are good value, BYD of course. The GWM Good Cat is very small but not the cheapest.

 

If you get a dedicated meter for the EV (talk to PEA) you can put it on TOU (Time of Use) and get very cheap power overnight!

 

You can charge off a regular outlet (granny lead) at about 2kW. If you don't drive far that could be enough but I would get a "proper" 7kW charger.

 

And, of course, get those solar panels up for truly zero emissions and free motoring!

[Kwasaki]

Nissan Kicks" e power looks ok. 

[scorecard]

39 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The choices from MG are good value, BYD of course. The GWM Good Cat is very small but not the cheapest.

 

If you get a dedicated meter for the EV (talk to PEA) you can put it on TOU (Time of Use) and get very cheap power overnight!

 

You can charge off a regular outlet (granny lead) at about 2kW. If you don't drive far that could be enough but I would get a "proper" 7kW charger.

 

And, of course, get those solar panels up for truly zero emissions and free motoring!

Thank you Crossy>

 

You mentioned "If you get a dedicated meter for the EV (talk to PEA) you can put it on TOU (Time of Use) and get very cheap power overnight!"

 

So I guess that means:

 

- Separate meter which is set up for lower xharges between say 8:00 pm and 6:00 am.

Could the several air cons in the house also be connected to this meter to achieve cheaper running costs for the air cons?  Approx. what reduction would that bring both the chargeing the car and say for the air cons?  Approx. 10%, 20%., reduction??

 

 

- But I guess the car could be charged at normal electric power rate using the dedicted meter outside of the TOU timing?

 

- But does is need (either approach above) special outlet boxes and plugs where the electricity is drawn from or standard plugs same as TV, fridge etc?

 

Thanks.

ridge etc?

that r outlesterNAd 

[KhunLA]

I'm a MG fan & owner (ZS), one of their SUVs, but don't let that fool you, as it's a bit shorter than EP.

 

MGs come with wall charger (installed free), and emergency/granny charge (which I use mainly).

If you keep charging only 20% per day or so, it's quick enough.

 

Of course if needing to charge a bit more, 50% or more, it can take awhile, depending which you choose ... ????

https://aseannow.com/topic/1276247-ev-owners-…-real-life-experience-help-thread/page/5/#comment-17927219

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

The ops best bet is defined a max budget

if your budget is less than 1 million baht 

that will leave you with a shortlist of currently 4 or 5 cars ( there may be more at the end of this month as the motorshow will be open at Bangkok)

I wouldn't called the MG ZS EV a small car also prices  starting at 949,000 baht

if your looking for something the size of a Yaris suggest you look at Neta V prices from 549,000 baht

When you look at different models ask what the lead time is for delivery some models it will be a couple of weeks some models it may be 6-9 months

Edited March 2, 2023 by vinny41
add

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I wouldn't called the MG ZS EV a small car also prices  starting at 949,000 baht

if your looking for something the size of a Yaris suggest you look at Neta V prices from 549,000 baht

Only a few cm difference in dimensions, Neta being shortest.  Not sure how small you want to go, assuming the wee ones will be growing 5-10 yrs, and keeping the car that long.  Unless budget restricted.

 

[KhunLA]

Yea 0339 hrs & I'm bored. 

I think these numbers are correct

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

As the op stated he was looking for a small city car should include the

VOLT FOR-FOUR Premium (5-Doors)   415,000 baht

If comparing the size of a normal engine car with VOLT City EV

• VOLT FOR-FOUR: 3,380 x 1,499 x 1,610 mm. / wheelbase 2,440 mm.

  Honda Brio: 3,610 x 1,680 x 1,485 mm. / Wheelbase 2,345 mm.

  Suzuki Celerio: 3,600 x 1,600 x 1,540 mm. / Wheelbase 2,425 mm.

•  

  
  

  FOR-FOUR

  Synchronous Permanent Magnet Electric Motor, maximum power 46 horsepower, 102 Nm, Lithium-ion phosphate battery, 115V voltage, size 16.5 kWh, drives the rear wheels.

  Can run up to 210 km. per charge (NEDC)

  Maximum speed 100 km/h

  Supports 3.1 kW AC AC charging.

  It takes about 5 hours and 30 minutes to charge from 0-100%.

•  

  https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-volt-city-ev-thailand-ev-primus/

   

   

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As the op stated he was looking for a small city car should include the

VOLT FOR-FOUR Premium (5-Doors)   415,000 baht

If comparing the size of a normal engine car with VOLT City EV

• VOLT FOR-FOUR: 3,380 x 1,499 x 1,610 mm. / wheelbase 2,440 mm.

  Honda Brio: 3,610 x 1,680 x 1,485 mm. / Wheelbase 2,345 mm.

  Suzuki Celerio: 3,600 x 1,600 x 1,540 mm. / Wheelbase 2,425 mm.

•  

   

  FOR-FOUR

  Synchronous Permanent Magnet Electric Motor, maximum power 46 horsepower, 102 Nm, Lithium-ion phosphate battery, 115V voltage, size 16.5 kWh, drives the rear wheels.

  Can run up to 210 km. per charge (NEDC)

  Maximum speed 100 km/h

  Supports 3.1 kW AC AC charging.

  It takes about 5 hours and 30 minutes to charge from 0-100%.

Not sure I'd buy any of the 'mini' EVs, as spec wise, they're definitely lacking.

 

There's also the Wuling & POCCO, but the specs for the price (฿400 & ฿500k) are not very good values, when the Neta V is a bit more, for a lot more vehicle (38.5 kWh).

Charging at home is pretty inexpensive operating cost, especially if solar now or in the future.

 

Not an EV, but starting price of Suzuki CelerIo is ฿338k (MT), ฿416k (AT), ICE (petrol & maintenance cost) but also a ~ 700 kms range.  Not that OP is interested in hwy driving.

https://www.suzuki.co.th/model/celerio?psafe_param=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAr4GgBhBFEiwAgwORrTDMCojnOYQwU3cZG6lmxb5hzVJphnxFUZj01TRQpMIvV6CQ9A_CqRoCabQQAvD_BwE

Edited March 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

And it should be said that while solar at home maybe the way forward for some people its worth mentioning that there is significant investment startup costs

I know your solar system is at the higher end of the scale that people might need but my understanding is your cost were ฿445K installed or put it another way 

 ฿30K more than the price of  the VOLT FOR-FOUR Premium (5-Doors)   415,000 baht

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

And it should be said that while solar at home maybe the way forward for some people its worth mentioning that there is significant investment startup costs

I know your solar system is at the higher end of the scale that people might need but my understanding is your cost were ฿445K installed or put it another way 

 ฿30K more than the price of  the VOLT FOR-FOUR Premium (5-Doors)   415,000 baht

Also is for the house & EVs, though expensive compared to other DIY systems noted on the forum, if this and last month is any indication, and not even hot weather yet, looking at <6 yrs ROI.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1268214-solar-8kw-hybrid-inverter-w10kwh-upgraded-to-20kwh-in-sept-2022-essbattery-not-diy/page/7/#comment-17928625

But we'll go way off topic if we get into that. 

 

ON TOPIC .... OP's 'small' car, is relative but as stated, I wouldn't buy anything with less specs than the Neta, or MG EP.

 

You have to put that against a small inexpensive ICE, like the Celerio, (฿328k) at 200k less than Neta, and put that 200K towards about 100+k kms of petrol.  That's a few years of knocking around town, kids to school and shopping, hopefully on the way.  Almost 2x that if buying the EP.  Definitely something to consider depending on budget.

 

Without our O&A, we barely put 10k kms a year on, and most of those aren't necessary for us.   So 10 yrs petrol for someone driving 200 kms a week/800 kms a month, 10k kms a year.  That's a lot of local driving, unless a long school run 5 or 6 days a week.  (20 kpL @ ฿35)

 

If considering the more popular, top end Toyota or Mazda entry level cars, then it's no brainer, as the Neta is cheaper & EP same or a tad more.

 

[Crossy]

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thank you Crossy>

 

You mentioned "If you get a dedicated meter for the EV (talk to PEA) you can put it on TOU (Time of Use) and get very cheap power overnight!"

 

So I guess that means:

 

- Separate meter which is set up for lower xharges between say 8:00 pm and 6:00 am.

Could the several air cons in the house also be connected to this meter to achieve cheaper running costs for the air cons?  Approx. what reduction would that bring both the chargeing the car and say for the air cons?  Approx. 10%, 20%., reduction??

 

 

- But I guess the car could be charged at normal electric power rate using the dedicted meter outside of the TOU timing?

 

- But does is need (either approach above) special outlet boxes and plugs where the electricity is drawn from or standard plugs same as TV, fridge etc?

 

Thanks.

ridge etc?

that r outlesterNAd 

 

Pretty much.

 

TOU timings and tariff are on the PEA website.

https://www.pea.co.th/en/electricity-tariffs

 

Nothing to stop you using a timed automatic transfer switch to move night loads over to the other meter, the car will be sucking up to 7kW (32A) so a 15/45 leaves you with around 2.5kW (say 25,000 BTU of A/C with lights and technology) to play with.

 

 

[proton]

22 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Pretty much.

 

TOU timings and tariff are on the PEA website.

https://www.pea.co.th/en/electricity-tariffs

 

Nothing to stop you using a timed automatic transfer switch to move night loads over to the other meter, the car will be sucking up to 7kW (32A) so a 15/45 leaves you with around 2.5kW (say 25,000 BTU of A/C with lights and technology) to play with.

 

 

How much would it cost to fully charge a car up then? I like the look of the BYD but have yet to see one on the roads here yet.

[Crossy]

44 minutes ago, proton said:

How much would it cost to fully charge a car up then? I like the look of the BYD but have yet to see one on the roads here yet.

 

I saw an Atto in the office parking last week, looks rather nice. Need to find out who it belongs to.

 

I like the look of the BYD-e6 but you have to go to SATR as the importer (they import the BYD fork trucks, vans and buses) as it doesn't seem to be in the dealerships. A mate bought a BYD van from SATR earlier this year, his wife loves it so he still drives their MG ES.

 

The Atto has a 60kWh pack, say 48kWh to charge 10% to 90% so about 130 Baht at cheap-rate TOU.

 

BYD also use LiFePO4 batteries, which are less liable to go fzzzt than the Li-ion packs and their "Blade" batteries are easily serviced if a cell fails.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Neta V has to be the cheapest, of the big brands, at 549k , looks okay, a little basic but the price is way ahead of the others.

MG4 at 869/969k is a great little hatch, very popular in the U.K. and no doubt will become so here.

MG ZS EV is still a great small SUV at around the 1 mill mark.

MG EP , the updated version will appear here soon, this popular est/wagon was very good value at 771k for the previous version, not sure how much the latest is.

Atto 3, 1.1/1.2 mill, the current favourite of the Thai/Chinese EV’s , a quirky interior but some excellent tech , starting to see plenty of these on the road now, Australia and NZ already approved.

Ora Good Cat , various models and prices, starting around 850k i think, a great small EV setting the futuristic trend. Only drawback could be the minuscule boot/trunk.

 

Obviously budget dependent but I would say the MG4 is the best value for the baht, unless you are limited then go Neta V.

[Andrew Dwyer]

AC ( slow ) charging.

Most , if not all, EV’s will come with a free wall charger ( and installation although a new additional meter may be required) to enable you to charge at your leisure, usually around 8 hours 0-100%. Your normal electricity charges apply unless you have a TOU meter installed and charge between 10 pm - 9 am for a reduced rate.
A Granny charger , supplied with some cars, enables you to plug in to a normal household socket, handy if you go to visit relatives. Granny charging is very slow and would take around 24 hrs typically. Guesthouses or resorts may charge you for doing this.

DC ( rapid ) charging.

Available at shopping malls, many gas stations, PEA authorities and dealerships ( i.e. MG ) is faster.

Obviously depends on battery size and car model but will allow you to charge around 40 minutes 20%-80%.
The majority of these will need paying for with an app or credit card, not sure if free DC charging can still be found ?, maybe at MG ?.

Prices are around 7.5 baht per kw , reduced rate from 10 pm to 9 am.(?).

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Also is for the house & EVs, though expensive compared to other DIY systems noted on the forum, if this and last month is any indication, and not even hot weather yet, looking at <6 yrs ROI.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1268214-solar-8kw-hybrid-inverter-w10kwh-upgraded-to-20kwh-in-sept-2022-essbattery-not-diy/page/7/#comment-17928625

But we'll go way off topic if we get into that. 

 

ON TOPIC .... OP's 'small' car, is relative but as stated, I wouldn't buy anything with less specs than the Neta, or MG EP.

 

You have to put that against a small inexpensive ICE, like the Celerio, (฿328k) at 200k less than Neta, and put that 200K towards about 100+k kms of petrol.  That's a few years of knocking around town, kids to school and shopping, hopefully on the way.  Almost 2x that if buying the EP.  Definitely something to consider depending on budget.

 

Without our O&A, we barely put 10k kms a year on, and most of those aren't necessary for us.   So 10 yrs petrol for someone driving 200 kms a week/800 kms a month, 10k kms a year.  That's a lot of local driving, unless a long school run 5 or 6 days a week.  (20 kpL @ ฿35)

 

If considering the more popular, top end Toyota or Mazda entry level cars, then it's no brainer, as the Neta is cheaper & EP same or a tad more.

 

You don't like the small Nissan  kick's e-power then. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

You don't like the small Nissan  kick's e-power then. 

Good question, (I know it wasn’t aimed at me )I’m not sure why I’ve never considered the Nissan. The Leaf got some bad rep for the outdated system even though it was one of the early adopters of EV tech.

I will take a look at the Kick.

 

Might be just a little bit bland, like Honda and Toyota and not as willing to take risks as the Chinese EV’s ?

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Good question, (I know it wasn’t aimed at me )I’m not sure why I’ve never considered the Nissan. The Leaf got some bad rep for the outdated system even though it was one of the early adopters of EV tech.

I will take a look at the Kick.

 

Might be just a little bit bland, like Honda and Toyota and not as willing to take risks as the Chinese EV’s ?

Whatever anyone says Nissan's owners I know like their motors whatever they are. 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

You don't like the small Nissan  kick's e-power then. 

No, nothing about that impressed me, when we got the 2020 MG ZS (ICE).  Loved the ZS, so simply got the EV version in 2020.   

 

If anything like the overpriced POS Leaf, then I don't think I would even consider it.

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No, nothing about that impressed me, when we got the 2020 MG ZS (ICE).  Loved the ZS, so simply got the EV version in 2020.   

 

If anything like the overpriced POS Leaf, then I don't think I would even consider it.

The Kick's e-power is new.

I just think OP should  look at try all different models. 

 

A bit like a wife you marry as see something else you want.

[Andrew Dwyer]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Whatever anyone says Nissan's owners I know like their motors whatever they are. 

I’m not knocking Nissan owners and i don’t know why I haven’t considered them.

Maybe their marketing dynamic isn’t making them as attractive as the Chinese invasion. Japanese cars, although reliable have a certain tendency to stay safe, particularly the interior.

With the Chinese EV influx is a certain futuristic element, bigger screens, rotating screens, two tone interiors , built in dvr’s , 360 degrees cameras etc etc 

Obviously it’s down to taste , some like the quirky interiors, some don’t.

 

But, you are right, the Nissan Kicks should be added to the list, starting at 749k it certainly falls into the affordable bracket.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

The Kick's e-power is new.

I just think OP should  look at try all different models. 

 

A bit like a wife you marry as see something else you want.

Nissan's E track record isn't too good with me, after the Leaf.   Which sold for silly price here due to lack of competitive.   A vendor's tactic that I would avoid just for spite.

 

Kicks back in 2020 was a 3 cyl, and hybrid, I think, which neither interested me.   I don't even think I peeked at it, or any EV as still too expensive back in 2020.  Without the govt incentives, we probably would still have the ZS ICE.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Neta V has to be the cheapest, of the big brands, at 549k , looks okay, a little basic but the price is way ahead of the others.

MG4 at 869/969k is a great little hatch, very popular in the U.K. and no doubt will become so here.

MG ZS EV is still a great small SUV at around the 1 mill mark.

MG EP , the updated version will appear here soon, this popular est/wagon was very good value at 771k for the previous version, not sure how much the latest is.

Atto 3, 1.1/1.2 mill, the current favourite of the Thai/Chinese EV’s , a quirky interior but some excellent tech , starting to see plenty of these on the road now, Australia and NZ already approved.

Ora Good Cat , various models and prices, starting around 850k i think, a great small EV setting the futuristic trend. Only drawback could be the minuscule boot/trunk.

 

Obviously budget dependent but I would say the MG4 is the best value for the baht, unless you are limited then go Neta V.

Good info, thanks.

 

In our case, my Thai son and his wife have decided to seriously look at all

their costs and aim for some level of quality but lower price to buy and operate.

 

One important factor - reduce costs but ensure their 3 kids have good education. 

 

(They'r also looking at food costs; can they buy somewhere cheaper than Makro, quality but lower their costs?)

 

Why the focus on car? Currently costing around 4,500Baht a month for gasoline plus maint. cost etc., a for mid size Honda 5 door car, 2 trips to 3  different schools every day, also transport kids to sports activities every week-end/some evenings. Three kids, 16, 11, 7. Plus shopping, son's transport to his teaching/coachin locations 3-4 km there and same back 5/6 days a week.

 

So they're trying to get a lot of info re small electric vehicles.

 

Interested in quality but not interested in prestige brand names etc. (Son not interested at all re brand names etc.,  son's Thai wife the same. But her older sister and brother (who have no assets whatever) are manic about brand / prestige etc. Continuously come to the house with brochures about deals on Benz, BMW, Lexus etc., which son/son's wife refuse to look at. They've even asked my son to promise when I die my son will spend at least 500,000Baht on a lavish funeral, chinese banquet etc., to make the family look important/wealthy. Every time this discussion comes up son walks out of the room and drives away.  

 

Thanks to all for the info shares, much appreciated. More details/suggestion/brenad etc., very welcome. 

[steve187]

19 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Nissan Kicks" e power looks ok. 

hybrid

i think the best value would be the MGEP, in the 700,000thb range, the zs is in the 900,000+ range, the good cat is no longer having orders placed, due to demand but again in the 900,000thb range i believe, the really cheap ev vehicles are not road legal, the volt city ev is for the 4 door 385,000 or 425,000thb, not sure is they can be registered, or if they are safe enough especially if  carrying children

Edited March 3, 2023 by steve187

[Kwasaki]

47 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Nissan's E track record isn't too good with me, after the Leaf.   Which sold for silly price here due to lack of competitive.   A vendor's tactic that I would avoid just for spite.

 

Kicks back in 2020 was a 3 cyl, and hybrid, I think, which neither interested me.   I don't even think I peeked at it, or any EV as still too expensive back in 2020.  Without the govt incentives, we probably would still have the ZS ICE.

Only suggestion to OP up to him. 

Me I'd buy Fords V6 petrol Ranger. 

 

[Kwasaki]

27 minutes ago, steve187 said:

hybrid

i think the best value would be the MGEP, in the 700,000thb range, the zs is in the 900,000+ range, the good cat is no longer having orders placed, due to demand but again in the 900,000thb range i believe, the really cheap ev vehicles are not road legal, the volt city ev is for the 4 door 385,000 or 425,000thb, not sure is they can be registered, or if they are safe enough especially if  carrying children

I was trying to see if it mentioned anything about an engine and couldn't find, so assumed it was only electric.

[Andrew Dwyer]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I was trying to see if it mentioned anything about an engine and couldn't find, so assumed it was only electric.

Ah okay, I must admit I was a little confused as to whether the Nissan Kicks was HEV or EV .

Apparently it’s a different type of hybrid.

From Nissan website:

 

”However, what sets it apart from the rest is that the electric motor is the only one that drives the vehicle forward. The job of the gasoline engine is to act as a generator to supply the battery pack with more power when needed thus powering the electric motor in return. The proper term for this is a series hybrid which differs from the more common parallel hybrids that you see in most of the hybrid vehicles available in the country today. This simply means that Kicks can’t use its gasoline engine to move the wheels. ” 

[KhunLA]

58 minutes ago, steve187 said:

hybrid

i think the best value would be the MGEP, in the 700,000thb range, the zs is in the 900,000+ range, the good cat is no longer having orders placed, due to demand but again in the 900,000thb range i believe, the really cheap ev vehicles are not road legal, the volt city ev is for the 4 door 385,000 or 425,000thb, not sure is they can be registered, or if they are safe enough especially if  carrying children

The Wuling & Pocco can be registered, which they used to charge 35-50k to do.  Now get gov't incentives, but their specs are a bit lacking.  Inexpensive, but don't carry the warranties or network of dealers the Neta s will have.

 

If they would have had incentives when first available here, I might of picked one up, Wuling, instead of the E-MB for my daily runs with the dog.  Beat the rainy forecast, that I use the car for, JIC accurate.

 

Actually I like the uniqueness of the (SAIC/Wuling) Baojun E300 Plus (31.9 kWh), but not available here.

Edited March 3, 2023 by KhunLA