13 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

There’s a white ( Frost ) Atto 3 near where I live, it’s a strange colour, at times it appears grey or even a very light purplish tinge. Green would have been my choice.

 The guy parks it half on the street and half on the pavement with a granny charger and extension lead disappearing into some bushes.

Strangely it still has red plates and I figure it appeared in mid April.

I have two white vehicles, A pickup truck and an SUV and I would never buy a white car in Thailand again.

It is always dirty!! 

During the dry season is always covered with clay dust. 

During the wet season , after any water it gets  splashed with dries , It is dirty. 

I wash it, and a month later the damn thing is dirty again. ????

I am sure other colors get just as dirty,  but they simply change shade. 

2 hours ago, Alotoftravel said:

Hi Pib,

Congrats on your BYD otto3 purchase . I was looking at the dolphin extended and now

Got to look at Otto 3 555.  But at least I have more time as the govt subsidy moved from eom sept to eom Nov .

Good luck in trying to decide....the Bt150K subsidiary is definitely nice which on a Bt1M vehicle represents a 15% price discount.  From my googling this subsidiary pot of money originally started off with around Bt2.9 billion and is close to depletion but supposedly the govt agency running the subsidiary program  wants to top it up again with another approx 2.9 billion if the new govt supports.  And I'm sure the vehicle manufacturers are pressing the new govt to keep the subsidiary going for as long as possible.

 

And BEVs still have the "Excise" Tax reduction from 8% to 2% which is suppose to continue/is locked in for a couple more years.  This BEV excise tax reduction of 6% is worth Bt60K on a Bt1M vehicle. 

 

So, between the BEV excise tax reduction and BEV subsidiary it makes a BEV cost 21% less than around a year ago.  

Regarding the current 2% "excise tax on BEVs (down from 8%) during my car shopping between MG and BYD I took pictures of the info sheet stuck to the MG ZS EV and BYD Atto 3 vehicle windows....see below.  At the very bottom in the right hand corner of each sheet where the total price is listed you'll see a "2%" in parenthesis.  The means the price includes a 2% Excise tax. 

 

For MG ZS EV

F

 

 

For BYD Atto 3

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Alotoftravel said:

Hi Pib,

Congrats on your BYD otto3 purchase . I was looking at the dolphin extended and now

Got to look at Otto 3 555.  But at least I have more time as the govt subsidy moved from eom sept to eom Nov .

I wouldn't take the end of November as written it stone it may finished before that 

There is a proposal to extend under a different subsidy model but some manufacturers are not happy and are stating it unfair as their costs will increase once they start local production

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1383716#:~:text=ส่วนมาตรการ อีวี 3.5,ขยายต่อแพ็กเกจ

https://www.blockdit.com/posts/65099284f652eaede52aa7f5

Below is some more news crossfeed on the government's EV subsidy/tax program such as comparing the "current" EV3.0 Subsidy Package with the "draft/tentative" successor EV3.5 Subsidy Package which is still under discussion between the govt and EV manufacturers...still pending approval from the new government. 

 

From comparing the EV3.0 and EV3.5 charts below the major changes I noticed are:

 

1.  The cash subsidy amount is reduced on cars and pickup trucks and is eliminated for motorcycles.  Like for example the subsidy on the BYD Atto 3 I'm in the process of buying would drop from Bt150K to Bt100K.

 

2.  The traction battery size trigger levels to get a cash subsidy changes.  For certain vehicles a larger battery would be needed (which increases the price of the vehicle) to get the higher cash subsidy.  Example: "if", repeat, if a person was buying a car under the EV3.0 it would only need a traction battery size of at least 30KWH to get the higher cash subsidy but under EV3.5 the battery size would need to be at least 50KWH to get the higher subsidy amount, otherwise, they get the lower subsidy amount.   Like someone interested in the Neta V EV (a very popular EV in Thailand) which comes with a 40.7KWH battery under the current EV3.0 it would get the higher subsidiary but under the proposed EV3.5 it would get the lower subsidy amount. 

 

3.  Motorcycles are not included in EV3.5....the cash subsidy and excise tax reduction go bye-bye.

 

The Nation 7 July 2023 news article

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40029153

 

Headlight Magazine 24 Aug 2023 news article.

Full news article that contained below charts....the news article is in Thai but translates well.

https://www.headlightmag.com/2023-08-24-ev-subsidy-package-draft/

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

3.  Motorcycles are not included in EV3.5....the cash subsidy and excise tax reduction go bye-bye.

Sadly, that would hurt most of the common folks, as DECO MBs are quite the value with the incentives.  

57 minutes ago, Pib said:

Below is some more news crossfeed on the government's EV subsidy/tax program such as comparing the "current" EV3.0 Subsidy Package with the "draft/tentative" successor EV3.5 Subsidy Package which is still under discussion between the govt and EV manufacturers...still pending approval from the new government. 

 

From comparing the EV3.0 and EV3.5 charts below the major changes I noticed are:

 

1.  The cash subsidy amount is reduced on cars and pickup trucks and is eliminated for motorcycles.  Like for example the subsidy on the BYD Atto 3 I'm in the process of buying would drop from Bt150K to Bt100K.

 

2.  The traction battery size trigger levels to get a cash subsidy changes.  For certain vehicles a larger battery would be needed (which increases the price of the vehicle) to get the higher cash subsidy.  Example: "if", repeat, if a person was buying a car under the EV3.0 it would only need a traction battery size of at least 30KWH to get the higher cash subsidy but under EV3.5 the battery size would need to be at least 50KWH to get the higher subsidy amount, otherwise, they get the lower subsidy amount.   Like someone interested in the Neta V EV (a very popular EV in Thailand) which comes with a 40.7KWH battery under the current EV3.0 it would get the higher subsidiary but under the proposed EV3.5 it would get the lower subsidy amount. 

 

3.  Motorcycles are not included in EV3.5....the cash subsidy and excise tax reduction go bye-bye.

 

The Nation 7 July 2023 news article

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40029153

 

Headlight Magazine 24 Aug 2023 news article.

Full news article that contained below charts....the news article is in Thai but translates well.

https://www.headlightmag.com/2023-08-24-ev-subsidy-package-draft/

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

There are some brands that don't want EV3.5 their preferred option is EV 3.0 extended until end of March 2024 and then no EV subsidy on imported EV

When local production of EV start in 2024 it is expected that the cost of EV will increase and local production manufacturing will not to able to match the scale of manufacturing costs savings that Chinese manufacturing plants have fine tuned over a number of years hence the reason why some European brands  preferred option is to build in China rather than their home countries

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Below is some more news crossfeed on the government's EV subsidy/tax program such as comparing the "current" EV3.0 Subsidy Package with the "draft/tentative" successor EV3.5 Subsidy Package which is still under discussion between the govt and EV manufacturers...still pending approval from the new government. 

 

From comparing the EV3.0 and EV3.5 charts below the major changes I noticed are:

 

1.  The cash subsidy amount is reduced on cars and pickup trucks and is eliminated for motorcycles.  Like for example the subsidy on the BYD Atto 3 I'm in the process of buying would drop from Bt150K to Bt100K.

 

2.  The traction battery size trigger levels to get a cash subsidy changes.  For certain vehicles a larger battery would be needed (which increases the price of the vehicle) to get the higher cash subsidy.  Example: "if", repeat, if a person was buying a car under the EV3.0 it would only need a traction battery size of at least 30KWH to get the higher cash subsidy but under EV3.5 the battery size would need to be at least 50KWH to get the higher subsidy amount, otherwise, they get the lower subsidy amount.   Like someone interested in the Neta V EV (a very popular EV in Thailand) which comes with a 40.7KWH battery under the current EV3.0 it would get the higher subsidiary but under the proposed EV3.5 it would get the lower subsidy amount. 

 

3.  Motorcycles are not included in EV3.5....the cash subsidy and excise tax reduction go bye-bye.

 

The Nation 7 July 2023 news article

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40029153

 

Headlight Magazine 24 Aug 2023 news article.

Full news article that contained below charts....the news article is in Thai but translates well.

https://www.headlightmag.com/2023-08-24-ev-subsidy-package-draft/

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

Is the subsidie still linked to future domestic production?

EV3.0 use to require 1 vehicle produced and sold locally in 2024 and 1.5 vehicle in 2025, right?

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is the subsidie still linked to future domestic production?

EV3.0 use to require 1 vehicle produced and sold locally in 2024 and 1.5 vehicle in 2025, right?

I think EV 3.0 is for every vehicle sold until 31/12/2023 1 vehicle to be locally produced in 2024 and if the brand not able to produce locally in 2024 1.5 vehicles in 2025 and all batteries must be locally sourced from Jan 1st 2026

Not aware of any stipulation that those vehicles built in 2024 and 2025 must be sold locally

 

 

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There are some brands that don't want EV3.5 their preferred option is EV 3.0 extended until end of March 2024 and then no EV subsidy on imported EV

When local production of EV start in 2024 it is expected that the cost of EV will increase and local production manufacturing will not to able to match the scale of manufacturing costs savings that Chinese manufacturing plants have fine tuned over a number of years hence the reason why some European brands  preferred option is to build in China rather than their home countries

I just noticed the fine print in Pib's post.

EV3.5 increased it to 2 vehicles in 2026 and 3 in 2027.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Sadly, that would hurt most of the common folks, as DECO MBs are quite the value with the incentives.  

Glad I bought my Electric motorbike in time to get the discount.

 

Currently debating bringing forward the purchase of my second EV  - bad case of FOMO 

1 minute ago, Bandersnatch said:

Glad I bought my Electric motorbike in time to get the discount.

 

Currently debating bringing forward the purchase of my second EV  - bad case of FOMO 

Looks like my Cyberster won't get a discount, I am sure it's going to be >2M baht.

14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I just noticed the fine print in Pib's post.

EV3.5 increased it to 2 vehicles in 2026 and 3 in 2027.

That is a draft that no-one has agreed to 

the main issue can a local manufacturing plant with no subsidy  compete with a Chinese manufacturing plant that has a subsidy of B100,000 for 50.1 kwh  or B50,000 for 10-50kwh

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Sadly, that would hurt most of the common folks, as DECO MBs are quite the value with the incentives.  

Ain't that the truth in terms of lower income folks probably being the most impacted by the EV motorcycle subsidy going bye-bye under government's tentative/draft EV3.5 subsidy program.

 

And when a person converts that Bt18K subsidy to a "percentage" of price reduction say for the Sofia model shown above (far left) that Bt18K subsidy reduces the normal price of Bt47,900 down to Bt28,640 which equates to a 40% price reduction!

 

On 9/22/2023 at 9:00 PM, Pib said:

Thanks. 

 

The wife and I agreed on White (or should I say Frost as BYD calls it).  The Atto 3 comes in 5 colors....Solar (red), Lagoon (blue), Emerald (green), Graphite (gray), and Frost (white).   Of course there an many variations of red, blue, green, gray and white.  A person has to actually see the color on the vehicle with their own eyeballs vs a TV/computer/smartphone to see if they like the color on that vehicle....and of course some vehicles look good in a certain color while another make/model with the exact same color may not look good.  At the dealership we used they had 4 of the 5 colors on their showroom floor and a red one in the garage area so we got to see all 5 colors up close, hands on.

 

Funny thing about the "red" Atto 3 (or really any "red" make/model in Thailand) they might be hard to find because both the BYD dealership for the Atto 3 and two MG dealerships regarding the MG EZ EV said they don't sell that many vehicles in red.   I can easily believe that because excluding taxis I guesstimate around 80-90% (or of the cars and pickup trucks in Thailand are either white, black, gray, or silver and then around 10% are red, blue, green, brown, pink, yellow, etc.  The Thai wife has always told me that most Thai's don't like bright colors on vehicles for various reasons but prefer the conservative colors of white, black, gray, and silver.  And boy, that is easily confirmed by just looking at the color of vehicles on Thai roads, parking lots, etc.   Additionally, I haven't seen a red Atto 3 on the road yet but plenty of the other colors.

 

Anyway, while I liked a red Atto the wife didn't want to have anything to do with red.  She preferred the white or green and I also liked the white and green....but both of us agreed that between white and green we both preferred the white.   So white it is...whoops, I mean Frost as it is a variation of white that does indeed look like Frost.   This also means our black Fortuner will soon have a white younger sibling setting next to it in our carport.

 

Colors and dealership locations can be found at the BYD Rever Automotive website as it appears Rever is official distributor of BYD vehicles in Thailand.   https://www.reverautomotive.com/en

 

By the way, the dealership called today....said our Atto 3 Extended Range will be delivered 27 Sep (next Wed)....we booked/made a deposit/ordered on 21 Sep.  Don't know if it's inbound from China or already in Thailand somewhere.  I sure hope my GoFundMe to help Pib buy a new car reaches Bt1.2M by next Wednesday morning.  ????

 

Dealer also asked which insurance company we wanted (i.e., the free 1st class insurance for one year)....the 5 insurance company choices offered by BYD at this time are:  Tipaya, Bangkok, LMG, KSK, or Navakit.  I already have LMG insurance on my Fortuner...but I called my insurance broker I've use for many years to ask her recommendation since a broker deals with dozens of insurance companies....she recommended Bangkok Insurance in this case.  So, I got back with the dealership saying I wanted Bangkok Insurance.  Cheers.

 

BYD Rever Dealer Locations

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/locator/dealer-station

 

Atto 3 Colors

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/model/atto3/overview

 

In my above post I talked how the wife and I decided on going with a "white" Atto 3 primarily because she didn't really like the red (which I liked), but we were both fine with white or green and ended-up agreeing on white.   

 

Well, since booking the white Atto 3 last week with delivery occurring later this week some events occurred that changed our color preference. 

 

Factors like seeing all 5 Atto colors on the road/in parking lots around Bangkok vs just at a dealership......the wife having more time to think privately about colors....the wife's 90 year Mom recommending we get a "purple" Atto instead of a white (now Atto's don't come in purple but Mom was basically hinting to the wife to go with a bright color instead of white).....a few days ago seeing a red Atto in the underground parking lot at a Central mall in a charging stall (it looked great in the low light)....and this morning another event occurred that caused us to switch from white to red.

 

This morning we got a call from the dealership asking that I bring in my passport, Yellow Book, and Pink ID card (no need for an Residency Certificate since I have a Yellow Book/Pink ID card) so BYD  admin could start preparing the formal registration/ownership paperwork for this week's delivery.   When we arrived the dealership on this bright & sunny morning a red Atto was parked right outside the showroom doors....it didn't belong to the dealership but to a customer who just happened to be visiting the dealership for some reason.  That red Atto looked great in the bright sunshine!...it caught (no, grabbed) both the wife's attention and mine.   

 

Neither the wife or I said anything to each other for about 30 seconds as we both looked at the red Atto.  And then out of the blue the wife said she wants to change colors.  She said while white would still be fine she now definitely preferred the red after events over the last week with this morning's red Atto being put right in front of us...she truly preferred red now.  And we both agreed the gods must have placed that red Atto right in front of this morning as a sign we should go with red instead of white.....it was just "meant to be."  

 

So, we told the dealership we want to change from white to red....the dealership didn't have any problem in doing the color change other than delivery will now tentatively be about two weeks from now vs later this week if we had stayed with a white Atto. 

 

 Yeap, happily the wife did a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde regarding color preference. ????

 

 

 

 

 

No.

9 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

No.

How useful!

This morning I created a spreadsheet for myself comparing fuel costs/savings between my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel engine vehicle and the BYD Atto 3 Extended Range EV I'm in the process of buying.  I know, I know, some of you (or maybe all of you) are thinking it's just another one of those durn unrealistic fuel cost comparisons between ICE and EV vehicles....boring. But hey, here it is anyway!

 

All the cost factors are "actual/real world" numbers with the exception of the "Atto 3 Kilometers per KWH" number as that number is a best estimate at this time.   Cost factors like the "exact" cost of diesel fuel, the "exact" cost of each additional KWH of electricity used at my home to charge the EV, the "exact" kilometers per liter I get with my Fortuner over the last 15 years of driving, etc.  Note:  I've seen all kinds of "cost per KWH" amounts for home charging in various threads...Bt3.5, 4.5, 5.5, etc., and it's obviously some folks were only guessing as to how much they pay at home for each additional KWH they use and some of the estimates were probably only talking their "basic" rate and didn't include the Ft charge, meter fee, VAT, etc., that gets tacked onto the basic rate.  The Bt5.45/KWH I used in the spreadsheet is exactly what I will pay (including all basic rate/Ft/Meter Fee/VAT) for each additional KWH I will use when home charging the EV.

 

But the Atto Kilometers per KWH used is not exact (at this time it's just a best estimate) since I haven't had a chance to do a couple months of real world driving with it; instead, I must rely on testing under various driving conditions done by testing organizations.   

 

While the Atto 3 sales literature says it uses 149Wh/Km, in my calculation below to reach a 5.46 Kilometers per KWH I use 183Wh/Km as part of the underlying formula to reach that 5.46 Kilometers per KWH.  Using the 183Wh vs 149Wh means I'm lowering the kilometers per KWH efficiency by approx. 24%....or said another way from 6.71 kilometers per KWH based on BYD sales literature to probably a more realistic 5.46.   For now I'm using 183Wh based on testing results posted at this webpage:  https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3#efficiency.  Now none of the testing results at that webpage reflect driving in hot tropical weather but in cold & mild weather conditions.  Take a look at the webpage and you'll see what I mean.  

 

You'll see from the spreadsheet below my fuel (diesel or electricity) savings should be approx 65%.   Or said another way this particular cost analysis shows my fuel cost for the Atto will be exactly 1 baht for each kilometer vs 2.88 baht for the Fortuner.  1,000km in the Fortuner costs Bt2,889 for fuel....in the Atto Bt997.   I even included a summary of savings over various kilometers driven like the 160,000Km covering the Atto warranty period and 315,000Km my Fortuner currently has under its odometer.   Note: I set the spreadsheet to round to 2 decimal points for display purposes even although the underlying formulas go beyond 2 decimal points in some cases...just wanted as much accuracy as possible. 

 

Fuel Cost Comparison between a Fortuner and Atto

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

This morning I created a spreadsheet for myself comparing fuel costs/savings between my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel engine vehicle and the BYD Atto 3 Extended Range EV I'm in the process of buying.  I know, I know, some of you (or maybe all of you) are thinking it's just another one of those durn unrealistic fuel cost comparisons between ICE and EV vehicles....boring. But hey, here it is anyway!

 

All the cost factors are "actual/real world" numbers with the exception of the "Atto 3 Kilometers per KWH" number as that number is a best estimate at this time.   Cost factors like the "exact" cost of diesel fuel, the "exact" cost of each additional KWH of electricity used at my home to charge the EV, the "exact" kilometers per liter I get with my Fortuner over the last 15 years of driving, etc. 

 

But the Atto Kilometers per KWH used is not exact (at this time it's just a best estimate) since I haven't had a chance to do a couple months of real world driving with it; instead, I must rely on testing under various driving conditions done by testing organizations.   

 

While the Atto 3 sales literature says it uses 149Wh/Km, in my calculation below to reach a 5.46 Kilometers per KWH I use 183Wh/Km as part of the underlying formula to reach that 5.46 Kilometers per KWH.  Using the 183Wh vs 149Wh means I'm lowering the kilometers per KWH efficiency by approx. 24%....or said another way from 6.71 kilometers per KWH based on BYD sales literature to probably a more realistic 5.46.   For now I'm using 183Wh based on testing results posted at this webpage:  https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3#efficiency.  Now none of the testing results at that webpage reflect driving in hot tropical weather but in cold & mild weather conditions.  Take a look at the webpage and you'll see what I mean.  

 

You'll see from the spreadsheet below my fuel (diesel or electricity) savings should be approx 65%.   Or said another way this particular cost analysis shows my fuel cost for the Atto will be exactly 1 baht for each kilometer vs 2.88 baht for the Fortuner.  1,000km in the Fortuner costs Bt2,889 for fuel....in the Atto Bt997.   I even included a summary of savings over various kilometers driven like the 160,000Km covering the Atto warranty period and 315,000Km my Fortuner currently has under its odometer.   Note: I set the spreadsheet to round to 2 decimal points for display purposes even although the underlying formulas go beyond 2 decimal points in some cases...just wanted as much accuracy as possible. 

 

Fuel Cost Comparison between a Fortuner and Atto

1 baht per km is about right, you got good mileage on your fortuner, my Benz was 5 baht/km

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

1 baht per km is about right, you got good mileage on your fortuner, my Benz was 5 baht/km

Yea...when I first bought the Fortuner in 2009 over several months I did fuel efficiency tests...using actual kilometers driven divided by how many liters put in versus using what the vehicle estimates.  Over 5 full tanks I got an average of  10.46Km/L....wrote it down in my owners manual.  A few months ago after having the turbocharger core replaced I checked again and over 3 full tanks I got the 10.38Km/L.  So, over 15 years the ol' Fortuner has remained steady in fuel usage.  If I really tried to drive economically I can squeak out a little over 11Km/L....but it's no fun driving that way.

 

18 minutes ago, Pib said:

This morning I created a spreadsheet for myself comparing fuel costs/savings between my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel engine vehicle and the BYD Atto 3 Extended Range EV I'm in the process of buying.  I know, I know, some of you (or maybe all of you) are thinking it's just another one of those durn unrealistic fuel cost comparisons between ICE and EV vehicles....boring. But hey, here it is anyway!

 

All the cost factors are "actual/real world" numbers with the exception of the "Atto 3 Kilometers per KWH" number as that number is a best estimate at this time.   Cost factors like the "exact" cost of diesel fuel, the "exact" cost of each additional KWH of electricity used at my home to charge the EV, the "exact" kilometers per liter I get with my Fortuner over the last 15 years of driving, etc.  Note:  I've seen all kinds of "cost per KWH" amounts for home charging in various threads...Bt3.5, 4.5, 5.5, etc., and it's obviously some folks were only guessing as to how much they pay at home for each additional KWH they use and some of the estimates were probably only talking their "basic" rate and didn't include the Ft charge, meter fee, VAT, etc., that gets tacked onto the basic rate.  The Bt5.45/KWH I used in the spreadsheet is exactly what I will pay (including all basic rate/Ft/Meter Fee/VAT) for each additional KWH I will use when home charging the EV.

 

But the Atto Kilometers per KWH used is not exact (at this time it's just a best estimate) since I haven't had a chance to do a couple months of real world driving with it; instead, I must rely on testing under various driving conditions done by testing organizations.   

 

While the Atto 3 sales literature says it uses 149Wh/Km, in my calculation below to reach a 5.46 Kilometers per KWH I use 183Wh/Km as part of the underlying formula to reach that 5.46 Kilometers per KWH.  Using the 183Wh vs 149Wh means I'm lowering the kilometers per KWH efficiency by approx. 24%....or said another way from 6.71 kilometers per KWH based on BYD sales literature to probably a more realistic 5.46.   For now I'm using 183Wh based on testing results posted at this webpage:  https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3#efficiency.  Now none of the testing results at that webpage reflect driving in hot tropical weather but in cold & mild weather conditions.  Take a look at the webpage and you'll see what I mean.  

 

You'll see from the spreadsheet below my fuel (diesel or electricity) savings should be approx 65%.   Or said another way this particular cost analysis shows my fuel cost for the Atto will be exactly 1 baht for each kilometer vs 2.88 baht for the Fortuner.  1,000km in the Fortuner costs Bt2,889 for fuel....in the Atto Bt997.   I even included a summary of savings over various kilometers driven like the 160,000Km covering the Atto warranty period and 315,000Km my Fortuner currently has under its odometer.   Note: I set the spreadsheet to round to 2 decimal points for display purposes even although the underlying formulas go beyond 2 decimal points in some cases...just wanted as much accuracy as possible. 

 

Fuel Cost Comparison between a Fortuner and Atto

Pib, do me a favor and add 2 extra columns that include depreciation for each vehicle. Your Fortuner is still a nice car and have value after 15 years. It will be interesting to see how much value the BYD retains over the next 15 years.

13 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Pib, do me a favor and add 2 extra columns that include depreciation for each vehicle. Your Fortuner is still a nice car and have value after 15 years. It will be interesting to see how much value the BYD retains over the next 15 years.

I don't have any depreciation data on an Atto....and other than what my insurance company says my 15 year Fortuner is worth to them I don't have any other depreciation data.

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

I don't have any depreciation data on an Atto....and other than what my insurance company says my 15 year Fortuner is worth to them I don't have any other depreciation data.

I was hoping you would stay around and share that sheet with us over the next 15 years, before you go to EV heaven.

You can use one2car or insurance data for the Fortuner, it is only an accounting tracker anyway. 

7 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I was hoping you would stay around and share that sheet with us over the next 15 years, before you go to EV heaven.

You can use one2car or insurance data for the Fortuner, it is only an accounting tracker anyway. 

I generally hang onto my cars a lot longer than the average person...like a Pontiac Firebird I owned for 24 years and only sold it because of moving overseas...and now my 15 years old Fortuner that I have no plans to sell.

 

But I don't expect I will keep any BEV 15 or 24 years as the BEV operating system/whiz bang infotainment system would probably be considered ancient/caveman after 10 years.  Heck, in 10 years maybe we'll have flying BEVs using Android 25.

 

And maybe the traction battery SOH/range will be too low although supposedly there are BEV taxis using BYD batteries in China that have over 1.2M kilometers with SOH above 70% predominantly using  high power DC Fast chargers.

 

Yeap...keeping my fingers crossed my life cycle continues another 15 to 24 years (preferably longer).

24 minutes ago, Pib said:

BEV operating system/whiz bang infotainment system would probably be considered ancient/caveman after 10 years.

Very good point. Your excel sheet might show huge fuel savings in favor of the EV, but after 10 years the BYD might be worth less than the then 25 years old Fortuner.

Total cost is tricky business in this electrifying new world.

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Very good point. Your excel sheet might show huge fuel savings in favor of the EV, but after 10 years the BYD might be worth less than the then 25 years old Fortuner.

Total cost is tricky business in this electrifying new world.

The EV might be worth more than the Fortuner.

 

Shouldn’t you have asked for an extra column on the spreadsheet for number of fires?

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The EV might be worth more than the Fortuner.

 

Shouldn’t you have asked for an extra column on the spreadsheet for number of fires?

Your guess is as good as mine, only the future will reveal the truth.

Talking about fires ????, if BYD maintain 2,000 sales/month, then the first "real" fire should statistically happen on December 8th, 2024.

At that day the combined fleet of BYD cars should have done 360 million km.

 

4 hours ago, Pib said:

While the Atto 3 sales literature says it uses 149Wh/Km ...

when charging an electric vehicle, there are charging losses

ranging from under 10% to about 20%.

 

these losses depend on various factors such as charging speed,

charger type, battery type, temperatures, etc.

 

i would also include these charging losses in a calculation ...

49 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

when charging an electric vehicle, there are charging losses

ranging from under 10% to about 20%.

 

these losses depend on various factors such as charging speed,

charger type, battery type, temperatures, etc.

 

i would also include these charging losses in a calculation ...

Yes, in the 183Wh/Kilometer number I used it includes charging losses according to the website were I got the data.

https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3#efficiency

 

 

19 hours ago, Pib said:

This morning I created a spreadsheet for myself comparing fuel costs/savings between my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel engine vehicle and the BYD Atto 3 Extended Range EV I'm in the process of buying.  I know, I know, some of you (or maybe all of you) are thinking it's just another one of those durn unrealistic fuel cost comparisons between ICE and EV vehicles....boring. But hey, here it is anyway!

 

All the cost factors are "actual/real world" numbers with the exception of the "Atto 3 Kilometers per KWH" number as that number is a best estimate at this time.   Cost factors like the "exact" cost of diesel fuel, the "exact" cost of each additional KWH of electricity used at my home to charge the EV, the "exact" kilometers per liter I get with my Fortuner over the last 15 years of driving, etc.  Note:  I've seen all kinds of "cost per KWH" amounts for home charging in various threads...Bt3.5, 4.5, 5.5, etc., and it's obviously some folks were only guessing as to how much they pay at home for each additional KWH they use and some of the estimates were probably only talking their "basic" rate and didn't include the Ft charge, meter fee, VAT, etc., that gets tacked onto the basic rate.  The Bt5.45/KWH I used in the spreadsheet is exactly what I will pay (including all basic rate/Ft/Meter Fee/VAT) for each additional KWH I will use when home charging the EV.

 

But the Atto Kilometers per KWH used is not exact (at this time it's just a best estimate) since I haven't had a chance to do a couple months of real world driving with it; instead, I must rely on testing under various driving conditions done by testing organizations.   

 

While the Atto 3 sales literature says it uses 149Wh/Km, in my calculation below to reach a 5.46 Kilometers per KWH I use 183Wh/Km as part of the underlying formula to reach that 5.46 Kilometers per KWH.  Using the 183Wh vs 149Wh means I'm lowering the kilometers per KWH efficiency by approx. 24%....or said another way from 6.71 kilometers per KWH based on BYD sales literature to probably a more realistic 5.46.   For now I'm using 183Wh based on testing results posted at this webpage:  https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3#efficiency.  Now none of the testing results at that webpage reflect driving in hot tropical weather but in cold & mild weather conditions.  Take a look at the webpage and you'll see what I mean.  

 

You'll see from the spreadsheet below my fuel (diesel or electricity) savings should be approx 65%.   Or said another way this particular cost analysis shows my fuel cost for the Atto will be exactly 1 baht for each kilometer vs 2.88 baht for the Fortuner.  1,000km in the Fortuner costs Bt2,889 for fuel....in the Atto Bt997.   I even included a summary of savings over various kilometers driven like the 160,000Km covering the Atto warranty period and 315,000Km my Fortuner currently has under its odometer.   Note: I set the spreadsheet to round to 2 decimal points for display purposes even although the underlying formulas go beyond 2 decimal points in some cases...just wanted as much accuracy as possible. 

 

Fuel Cost Comparison between a Fortuner and Atto

Don’t forget, if you have solar at home, the cost per kWh reduces further. Couple that with TOU, it’s almost down to nothing.

 

Over the past weekend, the sun was out in full force. I had to be out on both Saturday and Sunday and even with my miserly 3 kWh system, I was able to charge both my Dolphin and Haval up to a good SOC for literally nothing as I also have a TOU meter installed.

 

There was an electrical brownout yesterday evening for around 2 hours just before dinner time. No worries, I plugged in my V2L cable and was able to continue watching YT on my TV with the fan on while the food was being prepared. The electricity hadn’t come back on when we sat down for dinner so it was a rather romantic dinner with battery powered led lights and with the fan still running.

 

And all at a cost of less less than 4 baht per kWh of electricity.

 

The advantages of owning an EV is such that very few EV owners will ever consider purchasing an ICE vehicle again.