Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 counts of falsifying business records

[LosLobo]

44 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The problem with this case is that from what I've seen, the charges against Trump would ordinarily be described as misdemeanors. If convicted of them they prove that he's a lowlife. But does any rational person need more proof of that. His mouth convicts him virtually every day.  But the legal theory that the D.A. is following is that because these misdemeanors were done in service of a felony, namely election fraud, then that's a felony. The thing is that the election fraud is a federal crime. So it's not at all clear that linking a state criminal charge to a federal crime is legitimate. A far stronger case will be made for his alleged obstruction of justice at Mar a Lago. And I suspect, if his White House staff and Pence are ultimately compelled to testify, he could be in trouble for the Jan 6 events and attempting election fraud as well.

Evidently, election fraud is also a NY State crime!

 

"During a news conference after the arraignment.......Mr. Bragg mentioned a number of potential underlying crimes, most prominently a violation of a state election law that bars any conspiracy to promote “the election of a person to public office by unlawful means.”

 

Explaining the 34 Charges Against Donald Trump - The New York Times (archive.md)

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by LosLobo

[ozimoron]

Top Republicans have obviously figured out they are on a loser.

 

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and his top deputies stayed silent Tuesday as former President Trump plead not guilty to 34 felony counts, signaling how far they have diverged from their former ally.

 

Many Republican senators blame Trump for the loss of the Senate majority and the disappointing performance of Senate Republican last year.  

 

There are also big doubts about Trump’s ability to win the general election in 2024, especially as he faces the prospect of additional charges from the Department of Justice and the Fulton County district attorney.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3934484-mcconnell-lets-an-indicted-trump-twist-in-the-wind/

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Top Republicans have obviously figured out they are on a loser.

 

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and his top deputies stayed silent Tuesday as former President Trump plead not guilty to 34 felony counts, signaling how far they have diverged from their former ally.

 

Many Republican senators blame Trump for the loss of the Senate majority and the disappointing performance of Senate Republican last year.  

 

There are also big doubts about Trump’s ability to win the general election in 2024, especially as he faces the prospect of additional charges from the Department of Justice and the Fulton County district attorney.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3934484-mcconnell-lets-an-indicted-trump-twist-in-the-wind/

This right here, and from the link above, really says a lot regarding how Trump is viewed.

 

“There will be other shoes to drop and I expect Mitch McConnell knows more about Donald Trump’s situation than we do,” he added. “He is one of the most influential and best-informed people in the country and has all kinds of sources of information and he probably sees other things coming.” 

Scott Jennings, a Republican strategist who has advised McConnell’s past campaigns, noted the Senate GOP leader is sticking to his strategy of staying clear of Trump, who has attacked him repeatedly over the past two years.  

[LosLobo]

Consigliere Marjorie Taylor Greene compares the Mafioso Defendant Don to Nelson Mandela and Jesus after arrest.......

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by LosLobo

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post about Hilary Clinton removed.

[mushroomdave]

17 hours ago, candide said:

Priceless! ????

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-arraigned-manhattan-alleged-hush-110056179.html

Agree....Priceless....the best part was while watching for me was the cop/bailiff (your picture actually) not holding the door for him and him having to open it.....small thing to you and me but to him????...... a lot!!  Don't blame those cops treating him like <deleted> as anyone walking from that booking room are to be in cuffs but he didn't have to do that.  And how he put the lives of cops at risk Jan/6 he can kiss the police union endorsement goodbye!!....if he makes it to election day LOL!!  Republicans......the "law and order" party my ass any more!!!  As Hillary says today: "LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP !!! " 55555555555555555

Edited April 5, 2023 by mushroomdave

[Pink Mist]

A trolling Meme has been removed.

[candide]

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Consigliere Marjorie Taylor Greene compares the Mafioso Defendant Don to Nelson Mandela and Jesus after arrest.......

 

 

Ahem! Invoking Nelson Mandela. Isn't it "woke"? ????

[GroveHillWanderer]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

But the legal theory that the D.A. is following is that because these misdemeanors were done in service of a felony, namely election fraud, then that's a felony. The thing is that the election fraud is a federal crime. So it's not at all clear that linking a state criminal charge to a federal crime is legitimate.

As Alvin Bragg specifically pointed out in his press conference after the arraignment though, the link making this a felony is not to a federal crime, it is to a New York State crime. He stated as follows:

 

Quote

'New York state election law makes it a crime to conspire or promote a candidacy by unlawful means.'

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg accuses Donald Trump of ‘catch and kill’ scheme

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

As Alvin Bragg specifically pointed out in his press conference after the arraignment though, the link making this a felony is not to a federal crime, it is to a New York State crime. He stated as follows:

 

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg accuses Donald Trump of ‘catch and kill’ scheme

Interesting. I'll look into it. Thanks.

[candide]

Charge #35, you have a d$(& looking like a toadstool!

"Not guilty, your honour!" ????

[LosLobo]

17 minutes ago, mushroomdave said:

Agree....Priceless....the best part was while watching for me was the cop/bailiff (your picture actually) not holding the door for him and him having to open it.....small thing to you and me but to him????...... a lot!!  Don't blame those cops treating him like <deleted> as anyone walking from that booking room are to be in cuffs but he didn't have to do that.  And how he put the lives of cops at risk Jan/6 he can kiss the police union endorsement goodbye!!....if he makes it to election day LOL!!  Republicans......the "law and order" party my ass any more!!!  55555555555555555

Trump was the privileged son of a multi-millionaire, born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

 

All doors are open to someone like that, with many choices and obviously with no limitation on bad behaviour.

 

But in the courtroom Trump is just any other defendant and Lady Justice is blind to class inequality.

 

Trump has already been warned about his rhetoric inciting violence yet he still persists.

 

With the judge's family being targeted, I am sure the judge will not take this kindly.

 

Trump  once tweeted his golden rule "He who has the gold makes the rules".

 

But Trump should take note that in the courtroom, it is the judge who makes the rules!

 

[pomchop]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/05/politics/mike-pence/index.html

 

The stormy case is the least of trumps worries.

 

  Wait til Pence sings like a  bird about what he observed and was told by trump in regards to efforts legal or illegal ,violent or whatever it takes to overthrow the election.  The flood gates will soon open and just maybe a few republicans will grow a spine and tell what they know rather than hide under their desks with their thumbs in their mouth.  Maybe it has finally dawned on Pence that trump would have been just fine if his MAGA thugs had hung him.....next bring on mealy mouth coward Mark Meadows and give him a choice of testifying or spending some time in a very small cell thinking about how trump throws everyone he touches under the bus.

 

Lots of stormy days coming for trump and he will dearly wish that the only thing to worry about is a porn star.

[scorecard]

On 4/5/2023 at 4:50 AM, Tug said:

This is the least serious of the cases he’s facing (because of his actions) does anyone think it’s penetrating his brain that he in deep trouble or does he think he’s truly untouchable?

Seems that way.

Better for all for trump to be tried and if found guilty then jailed, prove to him and to all that he's not  above the law / nobody is above the law.

 

 

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Trump was the privileged son of a multi-millionaire, born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

 

All doors are open to someone like that, with many choices and obviously with no limitation on bad behaviour.

 

But in the courtroom Trump is just any other defendant and Lady Justice is blind to class inequality.

 

Trump has already been warned about his rhetoric inciting violence yet he still persists.

 

With the judge's family being targeted, I am sure the judge will not take this kindly.

 

Trump  once tweeted his golden rule "He who has the gold makes the rules".

 

But Trump should take note that in the courtroom, it is the judge who makes the rules!

 

"Trump has already been warned about his rhetoric inciting violence yet he still persists."

 

His speech back at his base a long diatribe of lies, untruths, twist, more lies and more lies. Still seems he believes he's special/he's above the law. If guilty should be in jail.

Sure there's concerns about rioting but the law must proceed.

[LosLobo]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"Trump has already been warned about his rhetoric inciting violence yet he still persists."

 

His speech back at his base a long diatribe of lies, untruths, twist, more lies and more lies. Still seems he believes he's special/he's above the law. If guilty should be in jail.

Sure there's concerns about rioting but the law must proceed.

This explores Trump's playbook into why he may be ignoring the Judge's warning and why he is still attacking the judge and family,

 

 

[heybruce]

Please Judge, charge him with whatever is the most serious, legitimate charge for endangering you and your family, and lock him up!  Require that all communications from Trump from now until the end of the trial must go through his lawyer.

[bamnutsak]

"Where's my Roy Cohn?"

 

Still dead.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzyq3S-4Yk

 

 

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

"Where's my Roy Cohn?"

 

Still dead.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzyq3S-4Yk

 

 

I think Rudy Giuliani and the rest of the gang of idiots that tried to overturn the 2020 election were Roy Cohn wannabes, and not very good ones.  It looks like Trump is so scared now he hired a competent lawyer rather than a headline seeking one.

 

Now let's see if the competent lawyer can somehow keep Trump from incriminating himself or committing other crimes.  It doesn't look good.  https://www.newsweek.com/trump-threaten-judge-incite-violence-1792620

[LosLobo]

Interesting detailed article on court proceedings.

 

A prosecutor previews the case.....

"The defendant, Donald J. Trump, falsified New York business records in order to conceal an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of the 2016 presidential election and other violations of election laws".

 

What It Was Like Inside the Courtroom During Trump’s Arraignment - The New York Times (archive.md)

Edited April 6, 2023 by LosLobo

[Credo]

For all the noise the talking heads are making, it may boil down to something much less complex.

 

A Surprise Accusation Bolsters a Risky Case Against Trump

The unsealed indictment against former President Donald Trump on Tuesday laid out an unexpected accusation that bolstered what many legal experts have described as an otherwise risky and novel case: Prosecutors claim he falsified business records in part for a plan to deceive state tax authorities.

For weeks, observers have wondered about the exact charges Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg would bring. Accusing Trump of bookkeeping fraud to conceal campaign finance violations, many believed, could raise significant legal challenges. That accusation turned out to be a major part of Bragg’s theory — but not all of it.

https://news.yahoo.com/surprise-accusation-bolsters-risky-case-113626001.html

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:33 PM, johnnybangkok said:

But why is it 'infinitesimal'? By bribing Stormy D and taking care of all the other stories that were being bandied around at the time through 'catch and kill', he effectively paid his way out of any negative press at a time when it could have seen him lose the White House. This is pretty significant when you consider Hilary lost because of the server stories being touted at exactly the same time. 

One could argue it was far from ' infinitesimal' when you consider what was at stake.

 

Errrr, if the tapes of a sexual nature were not enough to make him lose, it's highly unlikely that paying off Daniels was going to.

I really thought he was done and dusted when they came out, but I guess enough people hated disliked Hillary enough to still vote for Trump over her.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

As Alvin Bragg specifically pointed out in his press conference after the arraignment though, the link making this a felony is not to a federal crime, it is to a New York State crime. He stated as follows:

 

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg accuses Donald Trump of ‘catch and kill’ scheme

No doubt that will be decided in court, if it even gets that far. Apparently a judge has to decide if there is enough there there to proceed to trial.

As Daniels is apparently not a New York state resident, would N Y state law apply to her case.

[placeholder]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

As Daniels is apparently not a New York state resident, would N Y state law apply to her case.

If I commit a crime in New Zealand, but I'm a resident of NY State, would Zealand law apply to my case? Crimes are judged in the locales where they are committed. What does residence have to do with it?

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No doubt that will be decided in court, if it even gets that far. Apparently a judge has to decide if there is enough there there to proceed to trial.

As Daniels is apparently not a New York state resident, would N Y state law apply to her case.

The charges are against the Donald for violating a New York statute, remember he is the resident of New York and that is where the crimes occurred as far as his fraud charges etc...., and it does not matter where he paid the money. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As Daniels is apparently not a New York state resident, would N Y state law apply to her case.

Let's try it another way. Let's say a women who is officially a resident of NY State gets an abortion that the state of Texas decides is a crime. Would she be immune from prosecution?

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Seems that way.

Better for all for trump to be tried and if found guilty then jailed, prove to him and to all that he's not  above the law / nobody is above the law.

He only needs to be tried. Failure to do so (on the insurrection charges) will b a green light for the far right fascists.

[Pink Mist]

A trolling post regarding tapes which this OP clearly is not about and replies have been removed.

[GroveHillWanderer]

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No doubt that will be decided in court, if it even gets that far. Apparently a judge has to decide if there is enough there there to proceed to trial.

As Daniels is apparently not a New York state resident, would N Y state law apply to her case.

As others have pointed out, the electoral fraud charges apply to Trump, not Daniels, so where she lives is immaterial.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 4/5/2023 at 11:51 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

The only factual evidence so far is that Cohen paid her. To convict they have to prove Trump knew that he was reimbursing a pay off, and not just a retainer.

You seem to have forgotten the multiple pieces of evidence that show Trump knew about the payments and what they were for. Firstly, there are recordings of phone calls between Trump and Michael Cohen that were used in Cohen's trial where they discussed the payments and their purpose. 

 

Then, Trump himself admitted to the payments (but claimed they weren't compaign expenses) both in Tweets in May 2018 and in an interview with Fox News in December 2018.

 

Trump admits to Stormy Daniels payment

 

Also, as I mentioned previously, they have evidence from emails and text messages that Trump talked about delaying the hush money payments until after the election, by which time it wouldn't matter. This proves that a) he knew what the payments were for and b) that they were election-related.

Edited April 6, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer