How do farmers survive in Isaan

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

You are looking too much at Youtube. Plenty of things to grow but no local markets in regional Thailand at a profitable price.

How do I know, by the losses over 2 years of my dear wife growing them.

Interesting. Which crops has she tried? Have you considered fresh herbs? Exotic fruit? Greenhouse stuff? 

[Dan O]

21 hours ago, blackcab said:

Monthly land tax payments? How much are you paying?

 

Land and building tax is payable annually, and the effective rate for agricultural land is miniscule.

 

Ask others in the farming forum how much tax they pay per rai per year.

It's the same all over thailand in agriculture. My wife's farm in the south was converted from rice some 40 years ago. Now they grow rubber, fish, palm, beetlenut, vegetables, coconuts, herbs, bananas and durian and still just break even.

 

It's gotten down to be Subsistence farming because the prices at market from the buyers coupled with the govt set pricing leaves nothing for profit while fertilizers and feed and supplies have gone up. Add the inflation cost of food and gas\diesel and there's nothing left. 

 

 

[GreasyFingers]

43 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Interesting. Which crops has she tried? Have you considered fresh herbs? Exotic fruit? Greenhouse stuff? 

Where are the local markets for any of those. If they have to be transported to Bangkok the middle man takes most of the profits.

[Dan O]

20 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I assume handouts from the government and payments from daughters in the cities.

The govt subsidies seem to evaporate before they reach most local farmers. Wife's farm never got I assistance payment from the govt during covid. Most in the area didn't either. 

[Dan O]

22 hours ago, worgeordie said:

It's the middle men and  conglomerates that make the profit, just look

at how much farmers are paid for rice, then how much it sells for in

shops and supermarkets for a 5 Kg bag , every year the Government

has to help the farmers .

regards Worgeordie

The money mostly evaporates before it gets to the farmers. 

[Dan O]

22 hours ago, Reginald Prewster said:

You need to see it with a different point of view.

 

I am working offshore since decades and yes, I made my coin after I left Germany and it's rip off taxes on everything..

But does it make rich?

Moneywise sure... but 

 

I bought a farm now, just 17 rai and rented another 7 rai (soon more) , our grocery bill dropped significantly from year one... 

I feel getting superrich (not moneywise) since I could reduce my work rotations from 9-10 to just 6 month a year..

 

 

 

And how much are you really spending to be a subsistence farmer? I'm betti g if you add it up your in losing even though you don't have to go but those veggies and fruits 

[Dan O]

20 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Disagree all you like.

 

Just look it up. You'll soon change your mind

You may be the one not on the playing field.

 

Are you a farmer and I this situation or just blowing smoke? 

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, Dan O said:

You may be the one not on the playing field.

 

Are you a farmer and I this situation or just blowing smoke? 

The post to which someone disagreed was regarding health care.

 

He later apologised for being wrong.

 

Therefore, I'm not sure why you asked your question. Had you quoted a previous post of mine, your question could have been valid, but inane, as I've already posted my experience.

[brianthainess]

23 hours ago, Reginald Prewster said:

our grocery bill dropped significantly from year one...

Could do that one one rai.

[Dan O]

48 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The post to which someone disagreed was regarding health care.

 

He later apologised for being wrong.

 

Therefore, I'm not sure why you asked your question. Had you quoted a previous post of mine, your question could have been valid, but inane, as I've already posted my experience.

Your just blowing  smoke as my comment was clear about the issue and your previous comments about farming. Don't like people replying then move along. 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Your just blowing  smoke as my comment was clear about the issue and your previous comments about farming. Don't like people replying then move along. 

Excuse me. I posted that the 30 baht health care  scheme covered accidents. The OP disagreed. I responded.

 

You replied with a question asking if I was a farmer. I'm happy to respond to that should you decide to quote a post of mine regarding farming.

 

If you look at my post timed at 23 hours ago, you'll get your answers. Any further questions, please quote that post and fire away.

 

 

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Excuse me. I posted that the 30 baht health care  scheme covered accidents. The OP disagreed. I responded.

 

You replied with a question asking if I was a farmer. I'm happy to respond to that should you decide to quote a post of mine regarding farming.

 

If you look at my post timed at 23 hours ago, you'll get your answers. Any further questions, please quote that post and fire away.

 

 

I don't need to search your posts, you wrote them so do it yourself 

[bigt3116]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:37 AM, soalbundy said:

land tax for the fields is about 30,000 Baht per year

At 230 Rai at 0.15% tax, that would equate to 84,000 baht value per Rai

 

230 x 84,000 = 19,320,000

 

These are the limited exemption examples for owners that meet the below criteria:

 

 

Your "wife's" land is well below the threshold to be free of tax ?

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

At 230 Rai at 0.15% tax, that would equate to 84,000 baht value per Rai

 

230 x 84,000 = 19,320,000

 

These are the limited exemption examples for owners that meet the below criteria:

 

 

Your "wife's" land is well below the threshold to be free of tax ?

We are going to the tetsabaan today to ask why we are sending tax money for land that should be exempt. I've just spoken to my stepdaughter who has only 30 rai surrounding a house in Isaan, she also pays land tax. The wife has been on the phone for the last hour speaking with friends, all have to pay land tax (starting from 2023), some pay 6 monthly, some like us, pay monthly, non of our land exceeds 50 million.

Edited June 6, 2023 by soalbundy

[Reginald Prewster]

23 hours ago, Dan O said:

And how much are you really spending to be a subsistence farmer? I'm betti g if you add it up your in losing even though you don't have to go but those veggies and fruits

For myself it's more to have a Project after retirement, because what i blew in the farm is quit a bit of money.

5500 sqm lake, 400 mtr river, fruit trees from all around the world and an Aquaponics system is in planning....

 

More something to play with, instead hanging off with other expats in front of 7eleven on the stone table.

(Seen enough of them in Pattaya.)

Beside this I love to live in the nature and not in the city... 

 

I am happy if my family can make an income and when I see the prices of food since 2002, where I moved to Thailand I we talk about almost 10% per year but the pension isn't following up... 

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, Reginald Prewster said:

For myself it's more to have a Project after retirement, because what i blew in the farm is quit a bit of money.

5500 sqm lake, 400 mtr river, fruit trees from all around the world and an Aquaponics system is in planning....

 

More something to play with, instead hanging off with other expats in front of 7eleven on the stone table.

(Seen enough of them in Pattaya.)

Beside this I love to live in the nature and not in the city... 

 

I am happy if my family can make an income and when I see the prices of food since 2002, where I moved to Thailand I we talk about almost 10% per year but the pension isn't following up... 

If that's why your into farming that's great as it's not farming for income but pleasure. Big difference compared to trying to run it as a business

[fgmr]

On 6/4/2023 at 6:16 AM, soalbundy said:

I doubt that, I can read Thai and have all the documents, we've been together for 18 years and she is nearly 50, she has no incentive to lie, our main concern is for our sons higher education and his financial well being when I die.

Bored is a state of mind not a physical entity, I've always loved the country life, even in Germany I chose to live in a village instead of Munich despite the longer travelling times, living in London while I was still in the UK was an experience I disliked, even my son's house lies outside of Chiang Mai city. Life in a farming village in Isaan isn't for everyone I'll admit but it suites me.

Me too. I prefer the simple honest rural Ban inhabitants. Almost everyone in the village mucks in together for any occasion. Used by autocracy, bemused by bureaucracy, and conned by, Thai style 'democracy',

 

[Isaan sailor]

Wife and I manage several of her rice farms.  One farm located on an agricultural canal (I hate the word “ditch”).  We pump in water at will.  Next year we’ll push the water into anther of her farms. And the 3rd farm lies at the U-Turn of a new 4-lane divided Highway.  Big win for her.

Rice farming dovetails nicely with sailing season on the Gulf, so we look forward to the harvest.  And we escape before the burning begins.

[kickstart]

On 6/4/2023 at 12:47 PM, youreavinalaff said:

I agree with your comments on health care.

 

Farming? Can be done well and money can be made with forward planning and not getting sucked into debt.

 

My father in law always saves seed from the previous year's crop. That saves a lot. He does not use fertilizer. He uses eco methods. Ducks, a chicken coop above a lake full of fish. Channels from the lake for the fish to swim in the rice fields. Easily makes enough enrichment for the rice.

 

Minimal debt means no need to sell the rice at the first opportunity. Save it for when the price goes up. Sell milled rice to the locals when they've run out. 

 

He's not making loads of money but from 10 rai he has enough to eat and enough to sell to keep him going with food, bills and some baht for a gamble every now and then. He doesn't drink or smoke.

 

If someone says they can't make money on 230 rai they are either making serial mistakes or keeping the profits secret.

I agree with you ,somewhere, something is wrong ,Ok we only have 6 rie ,our land tax was I think, was  only 50 baht for year ,the wife has said it has gone up even if that was 100 % it will only be  about 100 baht ,the OP has 230 rie ,that would be about 2000 baht/year??, and I take it that the land is owned and not rented ,it is the owner of the land that pays the land tax ,for a clarification go to your local Or-Bor-Tor office and ask them how much land tax is ,that is where we pay our land tax.

The wife's son in law and daughter farm 27 rie of rice land ,last year they had an income of 100 010 baht ,last year was a good year, like the op on one crop of rice per year, and they rent they land that is 1100 baht/rie/year, they do most of the work themselves they have Kwie  Lec ,walk behind tractor, just using a tractor to initially plough the land ,and a combine in to do the harvesting ,and they can still make a profit ,not a big one ,renting the land being they biggest out lay.

So, if the op's family owns all they land they should be making some money ,in my area 230 rie of rice is a big farm, and what about the 15000 baht government, subsidy ,that is 1000 baht/rie for the first 15 rie.

I would say the land could well be the problem not fertile low crop yields, just mono -culture rice for years, the land is well short of organic matter, ask in the Farming Forum about how to improve this.

[kickstart]

10 hours ago, kickstart said:

I agree with you ,somewhere, something is wrong ,Ok we only have 6 rie ,our land tax was I think, was  only 50 baht for year ,the wife has said it has gone up even if that was 100 % it will only be  about 100 baht ,the OP has 230 rie ,that would be about 2000 baht/year??, and I take it that the land is owned and not rented ,it is the owner of the land that pays the land tax ,for a clarification go to your local Or-Bor-Tor office and ask them how much land tax is ,that is where we pay our land tax.

I asked our local office about land tax, it is a mine field, they is no fixed price for all the provinces, if you live near a town city you will pay more than if you live in a rural area ,a lot depends on if you have a full charnort  title  deeds, or just a Nor Sor 3, land awaiting title deeds.

Some also depends on value of the land, it goes up more if the land is worth more than 50 million baht, that would be apply to vacant land in city/town centers.

So back to the op, if his land is on the edge of a big town with a full charnort he could well be paying 30K year in land tax, but I doubt it ,he said he can read Thai, so he must be able to speak it ,go to your local office and find out.

[TimeMachine]

I find it quite bizarre that essential  telephone companies can or rather are allowed to make a massive profit. Yet a food making and selling company selling an essential struggles. What would happen if all farmers established their own union?  Some groups are just better at organising their standing position I guess. I've visited Udon, and saw it as a ruff choice to be a farmer in Thailand. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

I find it quite bizarre that essential  telephone companies can or rather are allowed to make a massive profit. Yet a food making and selling company selling an essential struggles. What would happen if all farmers established their own union?  Some groups are just better at organising their standing position I guess. I've visited Udon, and saw it as a ruff choice to be a farmer in Thailand. 

There are three or four telephone companies you can choose from, and millions of farmers .............

[Lacessit]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:24 PM, soalbundy said:

All my vegetables get eaten by insects but my mango trees produce giant mangoes which serve me as breakfast. I haven't worked since I was 57, I never regretted taking early retirement, working is for horses.

Working is for people who enjoy what they do, you obviously did not.

You could try planting vegetables which are not prone to insect attack, or grow them where insects can't get at them.  For example, I find it hard to imagine insects attacking chili, garlic and okra.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Lacessit

[TimeMachine]

51 minutes ago, sirineou said:

There are three or four telephone companies you can choose from, and millions of farmers .............

Does that mean more farmers,  Power in numbers.  If four farmers join together nothing will happen.  If millions join together then what would happen.  I don't think they would agree things are good for them as is the telephone companies. What is it that exactly stops farmers from joining together? Trust? Laziness? Lack of knowledge or drive? I'm not sure.  

[sirineou]

Just now, TimeMachine said:

Does that mean more farmers,  Power in numbers.  If four farmers join together nothing will happen.  If millions join together then what would happen.  I don't think they would agree things are good for them as is the telephone companies. What is it that exactly stops farmers from joining together? Trust? Laziness? Lack of knowledge or drive? I'm not sure.  

Collectives have been created to eliminate the middleman and combine resources  .  

But Supply and demand . I know it is not fair but such is the world.

[Farmerslife]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:57 AM, Lacessit said:

You could try planting vegetables which are not prone to insect attack, or grow them where insects can't get at them.  For example, I find it hard to imagine insects attacking chili, garlic and okra.

From my own experience, chillies are particularly prone to fungi and okra is severely plagued by the red cotton bug. 

We only grow garlic in small quantities for personal consumption, so I can't really say, but at one crop a year they're not really viable for us. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, Farmerslife said:

From my own experience, chillies are particularly prone to fungi and okra is severely plagued by the red cotton bug. 

We only grow garlic in small quantities for personal consumption, so I can't really say, but at one crop a year they're not really viable for us. 

 

 

I stand corrected, but then I am more used to sheep and wheat.