I agree. It is just too hard a sale for conservatives to accept a non-President can smash classified records on a hard drive with a HAMMER to destroy and it's totally fine, a non-President can store classified docs in what is essentially a crackhouse rented by national security nightmare Hunter Biden and again, it's fine. But don't let them catch a real President having some in a heavily guarded estate.

Sorry, not buying it. Looks like a 2 tier justice system.

9 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I agree. It is just too hard a sale for conservatives to accept a non-President can smash classified records on a hard drive with a HAMMER to destroy and it's totally fine, a non-President can store classified docs in what is essentially a crackhouse rented by national security nightmare Hunter Biden and again, it's fine. But don't let them catch a real President having some in a heavily guarded estate.

Sorry, not buying it. Looks like a 2 tier justice system.

It's been explained to you so many times that It's not worth spending time explaining again.

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I agree. It is just too hard a sale for conservatives to accept a non-President can smash classified records on a hard drive with a HAMMER to destroy and it's totally fine, a non-President can store classified docs in what is essentially a crackhouse rented by national security nightmare Hunter Biden and again, it's fine. But don't let them catch a real President having some in a heavily guarded estate.

Sorry, not buying it. Looks like a 2 tier justice system.

It's not a hard sale to believe a former President can not steal documents, keep highly classified information in a resort open to anyone with money, show classified to people without security clearances, refuse to return the documents and interfere with legal efforts to retrieve the documents.

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

It's not a hard sale to believe a former President can not steal documents, keep highly classified information in a resort open to anyone with money, show classified to people without security clearances, refuse to return the documents and interfere with legal efforts to retrieve the documents.

He was not a career politician, so your phrasing is flat wrong. He would have taken(or received from others that did the physical removal) documents while a sitting President, not "steal documents" as a "former President". A difference of seismic proportions.

7 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

He was not a career politician, so your phrasing is flat wrong. He would have taken(or received from others that did the physical removal) documents while a sitting President, not "steal documents" as a "former President". A difference of seismic proportions.

True, Trump was a con man before becoming president. Problem was he brought those same traits to the Oval Office. 

Bal bla bla same old troupe with this caveat it’s mr trump who attempted to do the rigging and with all his efforts at suppressing the vote he still lost.He isthe bigglest soreiest nasteyest crybaby loser of all time

35 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

He was not a career politician, so your phrasing is flat wrong. He would have taken(or received from others that did the physical removal) documents while a sitting President, not "steal documents" as a "former President". A difference of seismic proportions.

So you think ignorance of the law is an excuse, even though he had been President for four years, was surrounded by lawyers and advisers, and signed into law increased penalties for mishandling classified.

 

And what about after he was told the documents were government property and he had to return them, but didn't? 

Can't argue his thoughts, as the corruption is pretty bad, and there to see.   Not that it hasn't always been there.  Only difference this time, he is the target of the selective prosecution, as Snowden pointed out the other day.

 

Exposing the wrong group of corrupt folks, seem to be a crime, when you threaten their power.  Only difference I'm seeing, is everyone is scared of him.

 

I guess it beats him having an 'accident'

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I agree. It is just too hard a sale for conservatives to accept a non-President can smash classified records on a hard drive with a HAMMER to destroy and it's totally fine, a non-President can store classified docs in what is essentially a crackhouse rented by national security nightmare Hunter Biden and again, it's fine. But don't let them catch a real President having some in a heavily guarded estate.

Sorry, not buying it. Looks like a 2 tier justice system.

Anyone else would have been locked up a long time ago already, so agree with you it is a two tier justice system.

"I think it is a rigged deal here, we have a rigged country, we have a country that is corrupt." And to top that off, you have Donald J Trump!

 

How could America stoop so low as to give this obnoxious buffoon any credibility???

A truly myopic culture. 

34 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Can't argue his thoughts, as the corruption is pretty bad, and there to see.   Not that it hasn't always been there.  Only difference this time, he is the target of the selective prosecution, as Snowden pointed out the other day.

 

Exposing the wrong group of corrupt folks, seem to be a crime, when you threaten their power.  Only difference I'm seeing, is everyone is scared of him.

 

I guess it beats him having an 'accident'

Selective in what way?  Can you name any other person who stole government property, including highly classified material, refused to return it and was not prosecuted for that crime?

3 hours ago, 2baht said:

"I think it is a rigged deal here, we have a rigged country, we have a country that is corrupt." And to top that off, you have Donald J Trump!

 

How could America stoop so low as to give this obnoxious buffoon any credibility???

Well here is a partial answer from 2020 presidential election. Kansas metro area counties blue for Biden -- Counties red for Trump. Trump won roughly 56% to Biden's 41%.

 

 

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well here is a partial answer from 2020 presidential election. Kansas metro area counties blue for Biden -- Counties red for Trump. Trump won roughly 56% to Biden's 41%.

 

 

Who's the President?!  Who's in the White House! Not Donny! 

30 minutes ago, 2baht said:

How could America stoop so low as to give this obnoxious buffoon any credibility???

Which one? There are dozens of obnoxious buffoons at the higher levels of the US political system.

7 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Who's the President?!  Who's in the White House! Not Donny! 

Who's his biggest threat in next election, and who just go indicted ?

 

Selective ... yea.  Clinton, home server, deleted emails ...

... really have ask ?

 

Bush/Cheney ... war crimes, invaded sovereign countries ...

... really, you have to ask ?

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

Bush/Cheney ... war crimes, invaded sovereign countries ...

 

Don't forget Nixon!

Interesting that the former president does not establish any reasoning or defense for stealing, hiding, sharing and lying about classified documents.

 

Instead he rants about "the rigged system".

 

 

 

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

 

attributed to Carl Sandburg

 

 

This ranting is of course why he will not be allowed to testify. And without his testimony the facts may be too overwhelming for a jury to ignore.

 

 

45 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Who's the President?!  Who's in the White House! Not Donny! 

You asked: How could America stoop so low as to give this obnoxious buffoon any credibility???

 

well about half the country did in 2020 and most of them maybe are still there. I spent lots of time in Florida counties that went for Trump 80% and even 90% in 2020. Thankfully well after I left US as my place of residence.

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well here is a partial answer from 2020 presidential election. Kansas metro area counties blue for Biden -- Counties red for Trump. Trump won roughly 56% to Biden's 41%.

 

 

The popular vote doesn't necessary always align with the electoral vote. and does not support the OP where Trump says 'we have a rigged country'.

 

Perhaps those who give this 'obnoxious buffoon' credibility based on 'your partial answer' are just being disingenuous or are illiterate.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

well about half the country did in 2020 and most of them maybe are still there. I spent lots of time in Florida counties that went for Trump 80% and even 90% in 2020.

Thankfully the majority prevailed and dumped Trump! Florida is not the USA, only 1 state!

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Can't argue his thoughts, as the corruption is pretty bad, and there to see.   Not that it hasn't always been there.  Only difference this time, he is the target of the selective prosecution, as Snowden pointed out the other day.

 

Exposing the wrong group of corrupt folks, seem to be a crime, when you threaten their power.  Only difference I'm seeing, is everyone is scared of him.

 

I guess it beats him having an 'accident'

Democrats would like him to run. Not scared at all. 
How did he threaten or rein in the corrupt and powerful unless you are talking about trumped up claims about Biden and Hillary.
At least if he is going to break the law he could be a tiny bit smart about how he went about it but he really gave authorities no option. He blew it. 

The question I responded to was: Who can give this buffoon any credibility?

 

That's the problem: Lots of people.

 

And I'm not a poster from Scotland who needs to have the popular and electoral vote explained to me.

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

And I'm not a poster from Scotland who needs to have the popular and electoral vote explained to me.

With respect, I fully realise that. 

 

But all of your audience here may not and I did notice that the reference that I supplied was omitted from your post.

Wonder where his fanbase was today, and why only a few decided to show up to the arraignment.  Amazes me that the polls show he has such a huge base, yet when he cry's wolf no one is there in person.  People need to remember that he is being tried by the Judicial Branch and neither of the other two branches are involved.  Separation of powers make that possible.  This was not a political job, and no-one else except the special counsel investigated, brought in a grand jury to view the evidence, and then indicted him.

 

Hardly anyone showed up to protest Trump's arraignment today... but Twitter sure had a lot to say about it (msn.com)

 

 

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Can't argue his thoughts, as the corruption is pretty bad, and there to see.   Not that it hasn't always been there.  Only difference this time, he is the target of the selective prosecution, as Snowden pointed out the other day.

 

Exposing the wrong group of corrupt folks, seem to be a crime, when you threaten their power.  Only difference I'm seeing, is everyone is scared of him.

 

I guess it beats him having an 'accident'

The problem the left had initially was and is ,they mostly never accepted him as the 45 th POTUS.

(Not deserving any rights and freedoms of the office) imop

This in 2016 was furthered by the Washington establishments  , (politicians,fbi and some in the media) by attempting to delegitimize Trump and everyone in his sphere) imop

Unfortunately for the American people like myself , we gotten delegitimized and defeated out of our vote for a Trump America policy by the establishment ever since!imop

Be nice to see a election by the citizens  of my country without any 

interference by the Washington establishment ! Imop

“The Establishment has been best understood as the primary source of power in a society, the implicit organization to which all politically minded people long to join but few will confess to being a member”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/what-is-the-establishment-now-213565/

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

The problem the left had initially was and is ,they mostly never accepted him as the 45 th POTUS.

BS. That's just plain WRONG. Everyone accepted him as POTUS, unlike the right which has not accepted that Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

 

You're confusing criticism with acceptance.

 

And the bulk of your post is just you complaining about further criticism, with a bit of conspiracy theory thrown in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

He was not a career politician, so your phrasing is flat wrong. He would have taken(or received from others that did the physical removal) documents while a sitting President, not "steal documents" as a "former President". A difference of seismic proportions.

Wrong.

 

He had no right to the documents after 12:01PM on 20 January 2021. At that moment, he did not even have a right to view such documents.

 

The term for taking something one has no right to possess is: Theft

 

The term for telling authorities everything was returned is: Lying

 

Q.E.D.

19 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well then apologies. I was not at all discussing the 2020 election. I was just noting that there is a large mass of persons who think Trump says what they think -- that they are marginalized and overlooked -- whether they are or not.

Maybe the 'elites' don't see the rest of us kind of like this:

 

No offence, but somehow I thought you were discussing the 2020 election.

 

Your comment 'well here is a partial answer from 2020 presidential election' and the graphic threw me!

 

By the way wasn't Trump an 'elite' feeding off the lower classes in New York most of his life?

 

I suggest that Trump and the GOP really represent the 'elites'  and that the Democrat represent the lower classes.

 

Ironic is it not?

 

Your graphic here is really quite good and describes what I think has gone wrong in US and how Trump rose to power.

 

The elite have ignored the lower classes and mainly supported themselves and maybe the college educated middle-class. 

 

One good example of this IMHO is that the US the richest country in the world has no universal health system and the less wealthy sometimes need to seek medical care in other countries.