Toyota CEO: "This new engine will destroy the entire EV industry !

[owl sees all]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You have 54 solar panels on the roof of your car? 

Why not make the entire body of the car out of solar cells?

 

Would make the battery distance driving much longer. Especially here in Thailand.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Why not make the entire body of the car out of solar cells?

 

Would make the battery distance driving much longer. Especially here in Thailand.

Already have some models, some concept stage, and at least 1 available now, and more coming next year, but very expensive.  That's some high tech expensive panels, since so little exposure area.

 

"The Lightyear 0 (formerly the Lightyear One) is an all-solar-electric car by Lightyear. Production was originally scheduled to start in 2021, with a starting price of €250,000 incl. VAT (US$296,000). The first units were delivered in December 2022."

 

Something a bit more practical, and cheaper hopefully, next year.  Not for the big family ????

 

More for the nomadic, lite traveler. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

11 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Even in remote Isan you'll be able to pull 5kW from the wall of the house of your GF. But you missed my point. Yes, charging an EV *right now* is not as optimal as refuelling a gasoline powered car. No doubt about it. The infrastracture is still being developed but it's making good progress. It's clearly the future.

I don't think it will be the future. Maybe it will be the near future for the next 10 or 20 years. But I am sure there will be better alternatives, in the future which is a little further away.

Heavy batteries which need a long charging time will never be the best solution. 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Already have some models, some concept stage, and at least 1 available now, and more coming next year, but very expensive.  That's some high tech expensive panels, since so little exposure area.

 

"The Lightyear 0 (formerly the Lightyear One) is an all-solar-electric car by Lightyear. Production was originally scheduled to start in 2021, with a starting price of €250,000 incl. VAT (US$296,000). The first units were delivered in December 2022."

 

Something a bit more practical, and cheaper hopefully, next year.  Not for the big family ????

 

More for the nomadic, lite traveler. 

 

Here’s Why Lightyear 0 Production Has Been Halted

Assembly of the sleek solar-powered EV sedan ends just weeks after production began.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a42634857/lightyear-0-production-halted/

Not sure how many were ever produced as they started production in December 2022 and ended production in January 2023

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Shouldn't make statements like that, your ignorance is showing.  Granny/emergency charger draws no more than powerful kitchen appliance, or a krappy shower water heater, 2300w.

Our water heaters are 3500w.  The one in Udon Thani was 8000w.

If you think charging 21 hours is a reasonable alternative compared to stopping 10 min on a gasoline station, then please think again.

Or if you like it, just do it.

I certainly won't.

[liddelljohn]

Electric cars are a techno dead end ,, yes the manufacturers and politicians are promoting them  but at same time  all the major vehicle manufactures  are pouring billions into Hydrogen for ICE or Fuel cells as that is the real way forward and they know it ,, Battery tech is messy, dangerous , polluting , corrupt and very very limited lifespan,and range ,, its all a big scam like dieselgate 

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't think it will be the future. Maybe it will be the near future for the next 10 or 20 years. But I am sure there will be better alternatives, in the future which is a little further away.

Heavy batteries which need a long charging time will never be the best solution. 

You must have missed all the progress with battery tech. Or the post in this very thead where I mentioned Toyota announced 1200km range with charge times of 10min. We've just seen the start of batteries seeing so much investment due to the change to EVs. What other system do you think will be supperior to batteries? 10-20 years is a very short timeframe.

[BenStark]

5 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

You must have missed all the progress with battery tech. Or the post in this very thead where I mentioned Toyota announced 1200km range with charge times of 10min.

Maybe you missed something

 

Toyota Motor Corp. aims for a commercial solid-state battery as soon as 2027.

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-evs-hydrogen-battery-climate-cd7730dbb9c157cf1663d39a3b39778e

 

That is the soonest prediction, and still 4 years away.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you think charging 21 hours is a reasonable alternative compared to stopping 10 min on a gasoline station, then please think again.

Or if you like it, just do it.

I certainly won't.

If you drain your battery everyday, then an EV wouldn't be for you, unless fast charging.

 

I've never 'needed' my 7.4kWh wall charger at home.  Consider I only use solar, so that's how practical the granny charger is, if using properly.  

 

We don't drive that much locally, and have the E-MB, to use if car is charging and weather is OK.  Dog prefers that anyway.  

 

6 hrs of good sunlight, and puts 13+ kWh in the car.  Good for ~100 kms.  My normal daily driving is <15 kms a day.

 

I could always use the wall charger overnight, if I wasn't a spiteful customer of PEA.

[eisfeld]

4 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Electric cars are a techno dead end ,, yes the manufacturers and politicians are promoting them  but at same time  all the major vehicle manufactures  are pouring billions into Hydrogen for ICE or Fuel cells as that is the real way forward and they know it ,, Battery tech is messy, dangerous , polluting , corrupt and very very limited lifespan,and range ,, its all a big scam like dieselgate 

Hydrogren is more dangerous than batteries. Hydrogen is exactly as polluting as battery EVs because Hydrogren is created using electricity. Batteries can be recycled and are not inherently messy. No idea how battery tech can be corrupt. A scam? Please explain how it's a scam. All major vehicle manufacturers are switching to EVs, none are currently thinking of transitioning to Hydrogen. Toyota was the biggest Hydrogen supporter and they failed to make the market adopt it. They've switched to battery EVs as their main focus.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

And let's ponder Hydrogen, you make it with electricity, exactly the same electricity EV owners put in their car.  There is no difference with Hydrogen.

 

The real issue is transitioning away from fossil fuels, I have done that in my home and with my car.

You are correct if the hydrogen is manufactured by cracking natural gases such as methane and ethane. You are incorrect if the hydrogen is produced by electrolysis of water, using renewable energy such as solar, wind or tidal power.

 

If you are recharging your vehicle solely from the solar panels on your house roof, you can virtue signal. When you recharge from any public supplier, you're kidding yourself if you think you have transitioned away from fossil fuels.

 

This is a public charger on the 118 going out of Chiang Mai. Dollars to donuts the electricity comes from Mae Moh.

[eisfeld]

7 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Maybe you missed something

 

Toyota Motor Corp. aims for a commercial solid-state battery as soon as 2027.

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-evs-hydrogen-battery-climate-cd7730dbb9c157cf1663d39a3b39778e

 

That is the soonest prediction, and still 4 years away.

What did I miss? I posted myself this exact year. You must have missed my first post on it in this thead. The point is that a credible manufacturer is showing that range and charge times are not a problem that can't be solved. Heck there are already EVs right now with the same range as petrol powered cars.

[richard_smith237]

Hydrogen fueled engine’s are awesome & the perfect solution…. Except…

Volume. 
Even when clean means of isolation / extraction are readily available the simple practicality of little luggage space is a big issue… 

… the volume required to store the hydrogen is rather much larger than petroleum & a lot more than batteries.. 

[owl sees all]

28 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Already have some models, some concept stage, and at least 1 available now, and more coming next year, but very expensive.  That's some high tech expensive panels, since so little exposure area.

 

"The Lightyear 0 (formerly the Lightyear One) is an all-solar-electric car by Lightyear. Production was originally scheduled to start in 2021, with a starting price of €250,000 incl. VAT (US$296,000). The first units were delivered in December 2022."

 

Something a bit more practical, and cheaper hopefully, next year.  Not for the big family ????

 

More for the nomadic, lite traveler. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Already have some models, some concept stage, and at least 1 available now, and more coming next year, but very expensive.  That's some high tech expensive panels, since so little exposure area.

 

"The Lightyear 0 (formerly the Lightyear One) is an all-solar-electric car by Lightyear. Production was originally scheduled to start in 2021, with a starting price of €250,000 incl. VAT (US$296,000). The first units were delivered in December 2022."

 

Something a bit more practical, and cheaper hopefully, next year.  Not for the big family ????

 

More for the nomadic, lite traveler. 

 

Good news indeed. Have to start somewhere with this new stuff.

 

I can recall when an elastic band was used  to keep the pony tail in place; to stop our hair flopping all over. Now it's being used to drive big engines.

 

[KhunLA]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you are recharging your vehicle solely from the solar panels on your house roof, you can virtue signal. When you recharge from any public supplier, you're kidding yourself if you think you have transitioned away from fossil fuels.

 

This is a public charger on the 118 going out of Chiang Mai. Dollars to donuts the electricity comes from Mae Moh.

Maybe EV owners just like the better performance from their same priced to buy cars over their polluting ICEs counter parts, they use to have.

 

And saving money along the way without adding to the local air pollution.  Sounds like a win win for everyone to me.

 

Call me crazy, but I actually enjoy spending less for my transport.   And when I'm on the MB, I sure wish everyone had an EV, as the ICE exhaust is disgusting.

 

Just my opinion, UP2U which you prefer.  But there are no, OK, very few real reasons not to own an EV, just baseless excuses.

[KhunLA]

For those interested in Hydrogen as a fuel, 'Electic Viking' has more than a few YT vids, both pros & cons discussed:

https://www.youtube.com/@electricviking/search?query=hydrogen

 

My favorite:

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, BenStark said:

I live not far from a large gas station, they have about 20 pumps to provide for those dirty gas guzzling vehicles.

 

Most of the time when I visit to fill up, all those pumps are occupied, and sometimes I have to wait in the queue.

 

They also have ONE charging station, but so far I have never seen a car charging there, so at this time you are correct that you just arrive and plug in the car.

 

But what, if your claims come through that EV is a success story, and everyone is buying EV's now.

 

What are the chances that you are third of fourth in the queue at that single charging station?

 

 

But not everybody is buying EV's.

 

Live out of the big cities in rural Thailand, and you will find that EV's are few and far between, and that charging stations off the main highway are rarer than hens teeth.

 

In rural Thailand which has a far larger area and a larger population than the cities, most people when replacing their vehicles are buying diesel pick ups and SUV's.

 

When it comes to replacing motorcycles and agricultural vehicles there is little option but non EV. Of course there are EV bikes and trikes but they are short range (50km or so). 

 

I don't even know if there are EV tractors, S, M or L, iron buffalos or 1, 2 or 3 ton small trucks even being manufactured.

 

In addition, all of the PEA transformers, cable network and customers electricity meters will need to be upgraded which would mean higher electricity bills for everyone.

 

The nearest gas station to me in rural Kamphaeng Phet is less than 1 km. The nearest charging station is more like 60 km away on the main highway

[Lacessit]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Hydrogen fueled engine’s are awesome & the perfect solution…. Except…

Volume. 
Even when clean means of isolation / extraction are readily available the simple practicality of little luggage space is a big issue… 

… the volume required to store the hydrogen is rather much larger than petroleum & a lot more than batteries.. 

https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-storage/metal-hydrides

[gargamon]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Let's look at a graph, that's always fun:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure we could come up with a very similar chart about the introduction and uptake of compact fluorescent bulb. Taking the chart out a few years would show a vertical drop around when the much superior led bulb was introduced. If the OP article is correct, the same drop will happen with EVs. 

[chalawaan]

Something something Segway will change the world! 

 

PR BS 1999. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

When it comes to replacing motorcycles and agricultural vehicles there is little option but non EV. Of course there are EV bikes and trikes but they are short range (50km or so). 

 

The nearest gas station to me in rural Kamphaeng Phet is less than 1 km. The nearest charging station is more like 60 km away on the main highway

And yet, I can get 90 kms out of mine (E-MB), and 50+ out of ebike (full power), 100+ using PAS.

 

2nd part is mute subject, since EV owners charge at home.  I've never needed one of the 5 or so local CS in my area.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe EV owners just like the better performance from their same priced to buy cars over their polluting ICEs counter parts, they use to have.

 

And saving money along the way without adding to the local air pollution.  Sounds like a win win for everyone to me.

 

Call me crazy, but I actually actually enjoy spending less for my transport.   And when I'm on the MB, I sure wish everyone had an EV, as the ICE exhaust is disgusting.

 

Just my opinion, UP2U which you prefer.  But there are no, OK, very few real reasons not to own an EV, just baseless excuses.

I have no argument with the fact EV's are cheaper to run. It's when EV owners start virtue signalling I call BS.

The cheapest new EV in Australia is AUD 43,000. The cheapest new ICE is AUD 21,000. Same price to buy? BS.

You had better get used to ICE's being around for a while yet. EV pickups are off the chart in terms of cost compared to ICE's, and the Cubans have managed to keep vehicles that are 70 years old on the road..

 

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

Something something Segway will change the world! 

 

PR BS 1999. 

Read consumer reports on Segways, they are not complimentary in terms of after-sales service.

[eisfeld]

13 minutes ago, gargamon said:

I'm sure we could come up with a very similar chart about the introduction and uptake of compact fluorescent bulb. Taking the chart out a few years would show a vertical drop around when the much superior led bulb was introduced. If the OP article is correct, the same drop will happen with EVs. 

By that logic LEDs should soon be replaced with something much better. Oh and that one then again needs to be replaced with something once more much better soon after. And then... or maybe not everything in the world follows the exact same curve? Especially not if the two things have nothing at all in common apart from being somehow related to electricity...

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I have no argument with the fact EV's are cheaper to run. It's when EV owners start virtue signalling I call BS.

The cheapest new EV in Australia is AUD 43,000. The cheapest new ICE is AUD 21,000. Same price to buy? BS.

You had better get used to ICE's being around for a while yet. EV pickups are off the chart in terms of cost compared to ICE's, and the Cubans have managed to keep vehicles that are 70 years old on the road..

 

Car buying in AU sucks, and glad I'm not there.   As I've stated more than a few times.  EVs, even without the gov't incentive, are cheaper than the quality equivalent Japanese imports here.  Quite the bargain with the govt incentives.

 

Top end modes of 'made in TH' Japanese badged entry level cars here are about same or tad less cost to buy in as some superior spec'd EVs.  Now with the incentives.   

 

Although I'd spend that wee bit more, without the incentive to have a quality car, instead of what is offered in the ICE Japanese branded 'made in TH' selection here.  They really are inferior.

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have no argument with the fact EV's are cheaper to run. It's when EV owners start virtue signalling I call BS.

The cheapest new EV in Australia is AUD 43,000. The cheapest new ICE is AUD 21,000. Same price to buy? BS.

You had better get used to ICE's being around for a while yet. EV pickups are off the chart in terms of cost compared to ICE's, and the Cubans have managed to keep vehicles that are 70 years old on the road..

 

You might want to leave Cuba out of any real discussion about cars:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-cars-idUSKBN20J2E6

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Is there electric at the house ? ????

 

You'd do the same as I do, doing now actually, simply plug in the car.... at home.  As most EV owners do.

 

Only need a CS when further than 150 kms from the house.  Of course if you can't charge at home, then maybe an EV isn't for you.

 

How often do working families take 150+ kms trips away from the house per week, month or year.  Some never, some once or twice a year if lucky.

 

Me, retired and take about 20+, and in no hurry to go anywhere.  Enjoy my leisurely lifestyle. 

 

Back in USA, when a 'working class hero' I would have loved to have an EV.  Never ventured more than 150 kms from home.  Simply hopped a plane if going out of Philly / tri-state area.

 

Now the silly cost of maintaining an ICE in the USA, OH YEA, EV is the way to go.

How long is the charge time to full at home from empty for your EV? I do believe the public charging stations will have a much higher current rating than anything you will get at home. I suspect your answer will be around 10 or more hours.

 

I looked at upgrading the electrical feed on a Canadian property to allow the fast charging. The cost to get just the extra 50 amps was around $10k. This didn't include the upgraded panels. 

 

The bottom line is that your scenario is fine if you have lots of time to be plugged in with little usage of the vehicle but is somewhat lacking if you drive a lot and need very quick charging. 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Car buying in AU sucks, and glad I'm not there.   As I've stated more than a few times.  EVs, even without the gov't incentive, are cheaper than the quality equivalent Japanese imports here.  Quite the bargain with the govt incentives.

 

Top end modes of 'made in TH' Japanese badged entry level cars here are about same or tad less cost to buy in as some superior spec'd EVs.  Now with the incentives.   

 

Although I'd spend that wee bit more, without the incentive to have a quality car, instead of what is offered in the ICE Japanese branded 'made in TH' selection here.  They really are inferior.

I am quite happy with my 2006 Toyota Vios, which will probably outlast me.

To me, it looks like EV ownership is becoming a cult, much like owning a Merc or Beemer.

I am financially sensible. The depreciation on my Vios has cost me about 15,000 baht/year since I bought it secondhand about 8 years ago. You probably blew more than that the moment you drove it out of the showroom.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You might want to leave Cuba out of any real discussion about cars:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-cars-idUSKBN20J2E6

Why? It's germane to my point ICE's can last a long time if they have to.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, gargamon said:

How long is the charge time to full at home from empty for your EV? I do believe the public charging stations will have a much higher current rating than anything you will get at home. I suspect your answer will be around 10 or more hours.

 

I looked at upgrading the electrical feed on a Canadian property to allow the fast charging. The cost to get just the extra 50 amps was around $10k. This didn't include the upgraded panels. 

 

The bottom line is that your scenario is fine if you have lots of time to be plugged in with little usage of the vehicle but is somewhat lacking if you drive a lot and need very quick charging. 

<8 hrs, no upgrade needed.