Higher quality music streaming

[ozimoron]

I'm considering buying a pair of KEF LSX ii speakers and paying for a Tidal subscription to stream FLAC format music. Tidal has a superior service which allows streaming of MQA at twice the price. I think the difference between FLAC and mp3 is enormous, especially for a decent set of speakers.

 

The KEF speakers possibly don't justify the additional expense for the MQA format. I can buy them for 46,900 from Piyanas in Pattaya which is 5,000 under the listed prices from online sources.

 

<snip>

 

Does anyone have any experience with these services and formats? I'd appreciate comments.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Jai Dee
Advocating piracy

[Woof999]

Some interesting thoughts about the difference between FLAC and MQA here:

 

 

 

Main takeaways for me are:

 

1.) MQA is lossy.

2.) Depending on the mastering, MQA might be diverging away from the original sound

3.) The "warm" sound of MQA that some like could be better achieved in equalisation without compromising quality.

4.) ie. FLAC is superior to MQA.

 

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Some interesting thoughts about the difference between FLAC and MQA here

Main takeaways for me are:

 

1.) MQA is lossy.

2.) Depending on the mastering, MQA might be diverging away from the original sound

3.) The "warm" sound of MQA that some like could be better achieved in equalisation without compromising quality.

4.) ie. FLAC is superior to MQA.

 

I see that MQA is controversial. Any thoughts about Qobuz? It's cheaper than Tidal's MQA offering and likely has better quality than the Tidal basic service for $2 a month more.

[Woof999]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I see that MQA is controversial. Any thoughts about Qobuz? It's cheaper than Tidal's MQA offering and likely has better quality than the Tidal basic service for $2 a month more.

I'm the wrong person to give a real answer. I only really hear the difference between FLAC and a decent AAC or even MP3 file when using headphones, but I rarely use them.

 

I stream most of my music via an XDJ-XZ using BeatSource, which outputs via 8kW of Alto tweeters / subs. This setup, and my usual audience, cannot discern between a decent "old school" format and the new ones, plus the need for realtime streaming and the often lack of decent internet connectivity means that file size is at least as important as quality at times. No point in having a 100% faithful reproduction when it buffers every few seconds.

 

To be honest, I'm a little skeptical that most people who say that can tell the quality difference between formats, especially when using speakers, are doing anything other than noticing the tonal differences, much of which are more preference based rather than quality based, but each to their own.

 

Let us know what you decide and how you perceive the quality differences.

[NextG]

34 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I'm the wrong person to give a real answer. I only really hear the difference between FLAC and a decent AAC or even MP3 file when using headphones, but I rarely use them.

 

I stream most of my music via an XDJ-XZ using BeatSource, which outputs via 8kW of Alto tweeters / subs. This setup, and my usual audience, cannot discern between a decent "old school" format and the new ones, plus the need for realtime streaming and the often lack of decent internet connectivity means that file size is at least as important as quality at times. No point in having a 100% faithful reproduction when it buffers every few seconds.

 

To be honest, I'm a little skeptical that most people who say that can tell the quality difference between formats, especially when using speakers, are doing anything other than noticing the tonal differences, much of which are more preference based rather than quality based, but each to their own.

 

Let us know what you decide and how you perceive the quality differences.

☺️
 

If you are referring to the perceived differences between lossy and lossless formats, e.g. mp3 vs FLAC, the difference is clear. In fact it’s often annoying for me to listen to mp3 music @ 320kbps. Noticeable even when I’m playing music through a laptop and 2.1 speaker system. Would be more evident via a high quality system. Tonal differences? What does that mean exactly? I have no idea..

[Jai Dee]

Discussion about digital music formats is OK, however discussion of piracy is not.

 

I have edited the OP to remove references to piracy of intellectual property, which is illegal in Thailand.

 

From the Forum Rules:

 

6. You will not post or link to items or content that are illegal in Thailand or any other country within ASEAN. This includes but is not limited to gambling, prostitution, pornography, narcotics, counterfeit items, illegal file sharing of copyrighted material, pyramid schemes, etc. Discussion of the items included within this rule are permitted as a reply to a news item, but never as a "how to" topic. Discussions must not be in breach of local laws.

[Woof999]

8 minutes ago, NextG said:

If you are referring to the perceived differences between lossy and lossless formats, e.g. mp3 vs FLAC, the difference is clear.

I would agree. My BeatSource preferences are set to WAV.

 

 

9 minutes ago, NextG said:

Tonal differences? What does that mean exactly? I have no idea..

Probably the wrong term, but I mean differences that could be similarly achieved (or removed) using an equalizer.

[gargamon]

How old are you? As you age, the frequencies you can hear are greatly inhibited. We were listening to a test program on the internet and the younger gf could hear a much wider range.

 

So the bottom line is that if you're not in your 20s or 30s you're probably wasting your money on all that high end stuff. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, gargamon said:

How old are you? As you age, the frequencies you can hear are greatly inhibited. We were listening to a test program on the internet and the younger gf could hear a much wider range.

 

So the bottom line is that if you're not in your 20s or 30s you're probably wasting your money on all that high end stuff. 

That's a common argument but I believe it's not as bad as it's made out to be. I have a friend who is a real audiophile with $50k in one stereo and he claims huge differences. He uses tidal with roon.

[OneMoreFarang]

I use Roon together with Tidal. That is what audiophiles recommend.

I confirm the quality is great and it's easy to use. 

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

That's a common argument but I believe it's not as bad as it's made out to be. I have a friend who is a real audiophile with $50k in one stereo and he claims huge differences. He uses tidal with roon.

You expect somebody that has 50k tied up in his audio equipment to admit it was a waste of money?

 

Test what frequencies you can hear and let us know how you did.

https://www.echalk.co.uk/Science/biology/hearing/HowOldIsYourHearing/resource.html

Then tell us if it's worth it. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

32 minutes ago, gargamon said:

You expect somebody that has 50k tied up in his audio equipment to admit it was a waste of money?

 

Test what frequencies you can hear and let us know how you did.

https://www.echalk.co.uk/Science/biology/hearing/HowOldIsYourHearing/resource.html

Then tell us if it's worth it. 

 

Being able to hear high and low frequencies is only a small part of the overall experience.

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I'm considering buying a pair of KEF LSX ii speakers and paying for a Tidal subscription to stream FLAC format music. Tidal has a superior service which allows streaming of MQA at twice the price. I think the difference between FLAC and mp3 is enormous, especially for a decent set of speakers.

 

The KEF speakers possibly don't justify the additional expense for the MQA format. I can buy them for 46,900 from Piyanas in Pattaya which is 5,000 under the listed prices from online sources.

 

<snip>

 

Does anyone have any experience with these services and formats? I'd appreciate comments.

 

 

Alternative a decent pair of headphones for half of the price

 

39 minutes ago, gargamon said:

You expect somebody that has 50k tied up in his audio equipment to admit it was a waste of money?

 

Test what frequencies you can hear and let us know how you did.

https://www.echalk.co.uk/Science/biology/hearing/HowOldIsYourHearing/resource.html

Then tell us if it's worth it. 

 

Normally you can play the range of volume without distortion the more expensive gear, Im happy with my 20k headphones these days, but my hearing is wasted long time ago unfortunately 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Alternative a decent pair of headphones for half of the price

 

Normally you can play the range of volume without distortion the more expensive gear, Im happy with my 20k headphones these days, but my hearing is wasted long time ago unfortunately 

I don't like wearing headphones. I do understand that the sound can be great but I find them restrictive to wear instead of just listening to speakers.

[Hummin]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I don't like wearing headphones. I do understand that the sound can be great but I find them restrictive to wear instead of just listening to speakers.

For sure if you have the space and neighborhood for it ????

[NextG]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:02 PM, gargamon said:

How old are you? As you age, the frequencies you can hear are greatly inhibited. We were listening to a test program on the internet and the younger gf could hear a much wider range.

 

So the bottom line is that if you're not in your 20s or 30s you're probably wasting your money on all that high end stuff. 

What you write has nothing to do with it. I’ll explain why… 
Imagine you are music class at school. Can you hear the triangle? Can you you hear the cymbals? Can you hear the guitar? Not everyone in the class will hear the sounds exactly the same. The point of high end equipment is not to produce the highest highs and the lowest lows, but to reproduce the sound of those instruments faithfully. The people who can hear up to 15k when the instrument is live, can still hear the same from whatever to what they are listening. It’s the job of the system to reproduce it faithfully, so that to the listener, it sounds the same as if it were live. My perception may be different than yours, but that doesn’t matter. What is important is that it sounds the same as if that instrument is being played live…. to you. 
That’s high end. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by NextG

[OneMoreFarang]

This is a book which is recommended by many people who are interested in music reproduction.

After the first couple of pages readers realize that reproduction it's difficult. After some more reading they realize it is very difficult.

 

 

 

If you are interested in the subject then I can highly recommend it. I learned some things reading the book. And mostly I learned that basically I know nothing and should better listen to the experts.

[NextG]

16 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

This is a book which is recommended by many people who are interested in music reproduction.

After the first couple of pages readers realize that reproduction it's difficult. After some more reading they realize it is very difficult.

 

 

 

If you are interested in the subject then I can highly recommend it. I learned some things reading the book. And mostly I learned that basically I know nothing and should better listen to the experts.

We were reading that stuff when between twelve and fourteen years old and building our own speakers. The next door neighbour was particularly fond of us. I specialised in multi speaker systems. To create the experience of being there. 
 

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, NextG said:

We were reading that stuff when between twelve and fourteen years old and building our own speakers. The next door neighbour was particularly fond of us. I specialised in multi speaker systems. To create the experience of being there. 

About the same age I also thought about building my own speakers. But I never did it.

 

Now I just decided to buy some professional JBL speakers. I think that was a good decision. ???? 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About the same age I also thought about building my own speakers. But I never did it.

 

Now I just decided to buy some professional JBL speakers. I think that was a good decision. ???? 

I built a pair of speakers the size of a small fridge for a pair of Tannoy 15" (maybe 18?) concentric speakers. I made one fatal flaw though, I used marine ply instead of chip board so I could take them to outdoor parties.

[ozimoron]

I decided not to buy the KEF speakers which was probably a mistake as I will have spent half the money getting something I can listen to flac music on at 24 bit / 96 KHz.

 

I have a Fender Monterey which was on sale at a good price and have ordered a Topping 10s DAC from Lazada for 3,690 baht. I'll probably need a decent pair of RCA cables which could set me back close to 2,000 baht. I chose that DAC because it doesn't have a pre amp. The Monterey are active speakers. It also has USB input and RSA output only which is fine as the Monterey has RCA and audio jack input.

[JayBird]

Not an acoustic expert or audiophile.

 

I use Tidal with a pair of Sony noise cancelling in ear earbuds, with a Sony Xperia smartphone.

 

The audio quality was better than Amazon or YouTube, which I already paid for, so much so that I opted to buy the Tidal subscription.

 

I am content, other than Tidal keeps removing tracks from their offerings.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I'll probably need a decent pair of RCA cables which could set me back close to 2,000 baht.

Don't waste that money. Read or watch what Amir has to say:

 

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

 

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:02 PM, gargamon said:

How old are you? As you age, the frequencies you can hear are greatly inhibited. We were listening to a test program on the internet and the younger gf could hear a much wider range.

 

So the bottom line is that if you're not in your 20s or 30s you're probably wasting your money on all that high end stuff. 

You can check your ability to hear frequencies here ... https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/

 

I am 67yrs old and 10000 HZ is the max i can hear ...

 

Btw ... I have a good tube amp and a pair of 18 inch triaxial speakers . even mp3's sound jaw dropping ...

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

You can check your ability to hear frequencies here ... https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/

 

I am 67yrs old and 10000 HZ is the max i can hear ...

 

Btw ... I have a good tube amp and a pair of 18 inch triaxial speakers . even mp3's sound jaw dropping ...

 

Well they would ????

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't waste that money. Read or watch what Amir has to say:

I have a close friend who is heavily into hifi and designs and makes his own cables. The cables he bought previously cost over 10k AUD for the pair second hand. He explained in detail what's wrong with them. He says good audio cables make a lot of difference and that solid core is a must. His main concern is reducing the dielectric differential between the core and it's sheathing. I know little about but I just take his advice. 2,000 baht isn't huge for a pair of cables.

 

Perfect Surface Copper Conductors 

 

Conductor
material quality makes a world of difference in the sound of an audio
cable. Since the surface of a conductor has 100% current density at all
frequencies, the surface most defines the sound quality of the whole
conductor. Ultra-smooth Perfect Surface Copper minimizes distortion
caused by grain boundaries that exist with any metal conductor. 

 

Solid Core Conductors 

 

Strand
interaction is the single greatest cause of distortion in cable, and
one of the easiest to avoid. Whenever current crosses the oxidized
contact between bare strands, the signal will be altered. In addition,
the magnetic fields of the various strands are constantly interacting,
causing confusion (smearing) and causing the contact pressure between
strands to be constantly modulated. AudioQuest's solid core conductors
are the complete solution to this problem. 

 

https://nocnoc.com/p/Products/AudioQuest-สายสัญญาณ-RCA-รุ่น-GoldenGate-1-เมตร-RCA-Cable/10194324?utm_source=google_pmax&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=|pl:pmax|fn:conversion|cat1:electronic-appliances|cat2:home-entertainment|&gclid=Cj0KCQjwho-lBhC_ARIsAMpgMoeSUQAl162gRgGfm7mFtHCKDtyGbva0lY2SbtwWqPZE6xmbCNqDEpEaAmucEALw_wcB

Edited July 4, 2023 by ozimoron

[Encid]

Just now, ozimoron said:

He explained in detail what's wrong with them. He says good audio cables make a lot of difference and that solid core is a must

How about using solid core 4mm² electrical cables as an alternative?

 

 

Much cheaper than brand name audio cables... 

[NextG]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I built a pair of speakers the size of a small fridge for a pair of Tannoy 15" (maybe 18?) concentric speakers. I made one fatal flaw though, I used marine ply instead of chip board so I could take them to outdoor parties.

????

[OneMoreFarang]

33 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I have a close friend who is heavily into hifi and designs and makes his own cables. The cables he bought previously cost over 10k AUD for the pair second hand. He explained in detail what's wrong with them.

Can he explain? Or can he, or anybody else, measure a difference?

 

Too many so called audiophiles believe they can hear a difference, but they can't measure any difference.

Modern measurement techniques are extreme good. And 20kHz or even 100kHz is nothing demanding. 

And even if cables would be 0.001% inaccurate, how about speakers?

 

This is a sample from a very good and very expensive speaker. And this is considered very good. Now think about the measurements of a cable... 

 

 

 

 

[NextG]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Can he explain? Or can he, or anybody else, measure a difference?

 

Too many so called audiophiles believe they can hear a difference, but they can't measure any difference.

Modern measurement techniques are extreme good. And 20kHz or even 100kHz is nothing demanding. 

And even if cables would be 0.001% inaccurate, how about speakers?

 

This is a sample from a very good and very expensive speaker. And this is considered very good. Now think about the measurements of a cable... 

 

 

 

 

Cables and connectors do make a difference. Though there is probably a point we’re the difference is negligible. 
I just changed my cable, as I had to use an adapter to make it compatible with the system I’m using. Removing the adapter from the equation has improved the sound noticeably. Bass is more defined and tighter; easier to follow and enjoy. I’m a bassist, so these things are important for me. Overall sound and depth improved. The cable cost me perhaps 50 baht. It doesn’t need to be high end, as it’s just a stopgap system for when I’m ‘travelling’. It just needs to be enjoyable, reproducing the essence of the music.