Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ridiculous inclusion of the Covid factor into the numbers yet again. Give it a rest.

I agree. And it's a good thing Republicans weren't blaming Biden for the inflation that afflicted all the major western economies in the wake of covid. I'm sure you would never countenance such blaming.

Edited August 8, 2023 by placeholder

[Danderman123]

39 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Yet, you try to ridicule those who vote differently to yourself and how you are better educated. 

As an unbiased observer in this polarity, it is rather disturbing the supremacy views by the Biden cult. While there may be a some rednecks and truck drivers and even people who can't read, there are supporters who have very good jobs and went to better universities than you did. 

Just take a look at the posts you wrote today and think about how an impartial would see them.

My last word on the matter, cult members can't debate rationally. 

 

 

 

 

Biden cult? Really?

 

Meanwhile, the Trump cult members are here inventing excuses for their thrice-indicted Dear Leader. You may notice how their posts get further from reality, until they just disappear.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, CharlieKo said:

On that basis, Biden also broke the law by having classified documents in his garage. So maybe Biden should be charged under the same law.  

As soon as the documents were discovered, they were given back to the government.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You do know these are allegations?

No they are indictments, there’s a difference.

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Are you really calling 70 million American voters losers? Unbelievable! 

Not at all - some are deplorables, most are plural denialists, others are misguided zealots .... but all are Trump devotees.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

You bet wrong.

 

Served the US at various times as a CIA case officer. Gained an MBA from the top biz school in the US, then had a career in finance. I used many of the millions I made setting up an NGO, where I provided medical and dental care, schooling and mentoring to hundreds of underprivileged children. SEt up a program granting microloans for community start-up businesses. ALso, I took zero donations; totally self funded.

 

Yea, on the govt teat my whole life.

Well done on a great career to date, and your experience and intelligence stands out like a beacon amongst the posts of the trump rubes. Keep up the good work.

[Walker88]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ridiculous inclusion of the Covid factor into the numbers yet again. Give it a rest.

That Lysol didn't work out, eh? And "15...soon down to 1" was wrong. And withholding PPE from Blue States was unwise.

 

As for Dems vs repubs, go back to the Civil War and look at all the data since. Economy performs better under Dem control. So does the stock market.

 

Even before trump mishandled Covid so badly, his economy was no big deal relative to the last 70 years, plus new debt exceeded growth. That is called debt-fueled.

 

Simple example: neighbor gets a new F-150, a bassboat and a barbeque pit. Looks flush and successful. The mailman delivers the credit card bill. That was trump's 'good years'.

 

At trump's poorly attended Inauguration, he spoke of American Carnage 'ending right here, right now'. Even Dubya said 'that's some crazy (slang for #2) right there'.

 

Dubya should know. He handed Obama a collapsing banking system, an insurance industry about to disappear, and the worst Recession since the 1930s. Obama turned it all around. UE fell from a peak of 10.4% to 4.8% when Obama participated in the peaceful transition of power to trump. Obama also handed trump a growing economy. Hardly 'carnage'.

 

trump signed off on the budget-busting tax cut, began fiscal profligacy on a scale never seen, tried to ignore and downplay what experts knew was a major international health crisis, and finally left---not quite so peacefully---handing Biden 6.8% UE and a Recession.

 

Losers have excuses. Winners achieve results. Obama took a crisis and beat it. trump took growth and quashed it.

[Berkshire]

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I'm not going to vote for a candidate with multiple felony indictments. Can you say the same?

Careful what you wish for.

You think the Biden DOJ would indict him with zero evidence?  No, only the House GOP would....except they can't indict. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

On that basis, Biden also broke the law by having classified documents in his garage. So maybe Biden should be charged under the same law.  

For 10-20 years, and his son had access to them. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Allegations?

 

Yes, here's one: trump admitted he had highly classified documents at his country club. The DoJ and FBI said the same thing. THAT is illegal. He admitted he had them, though he did offer up a silly excuse (declassified in his mind, had a 'right' to them).

 

Claiming something contrary to established law (trump had zero right to the docs, and there exists a system and procedure for declassification, so it cannot be done 'in your head') does not make him innocent.

 

He broke the law. The mere existence of the TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD docs in his country club---which was found to have at least one MSS member (Ministry of State Security of the Peoples Republic of China)---is criminal. No allegation. FACT.

So that's a no, you don't know the allegations. Thanks. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Pence and Biden inadvertently had some classified docs among their papers. Both men fully cooperated in locating and returning them.

 

trump purposely stole TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD docs, and admitted he took them, offering silly excuses like "I declassified them all in my mind" and "I have a right to them" (he has zero right to them).

 

trump then lied about returning all of them, which resulted in the FBI search of his country club.

 

See the difference? Yea, I guess not. trump's vapors blind people to reality.

Yes, I see the difference, they are not Trump. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I ridicule those who think the minority wins, or who support a traitor who is now indicted for breaking laws for the purpose of overthrowing US democracy.

 

 

In CIA or when you got an "MBA from the top biz school in the US..." did they not teach you it's a Republic, not a democracy? 

 

Keep regurgitating dude, you're on fire! 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I see the difference, they are not Trump. 

You are really unable to differentiate between the fact that willfully withholding such documents is a crime whereas merely being in possession of them is not? That returning the documents to the National Archives upon request by the National Archives is not a crime whereas refusing to return them on request is?

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

As soon as the documents were discovered, they were given back to the government.

This is just not true, do you have anything that support this? 

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I see the difference, they are not Trump. 

Previously you claimed that Trump's attorneys would have grounds for appeal on the basis that  only Trump was being prosecuted for the offense of willful possession. That falsehood has been conclusively disproved by examples cited. You've got nothing.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

That Lysol didn't work out, eh? And "15...soon down to 1" was wrong. And withholding PPE from Blue States was unwise.

 

As for Dems vs repubs, go back to the Civil War and look at all the data since. Economy performs better under Dem control. So does the stock market.

 

Even before trump mishandled Covid so badly, his economy was no big deal relative to the last 70 years, plus new debt exceeded growth. That is called debt-fueled.

 

Simple example: neighbor gets a new F-150, a bassboat and a barbeque pit. Looks flush and successful. The mailman delivers the credit card bill. That was trump's 'good years'.

 

At trump's poorly attended Inauguration, he spoke of American Carnage 'ending right here, right now'. Even Dubya said 'that's some crazy (slang for #2) right there'.

 

Dubya should know. He handed Obama a collapsing banking system, an insurance industry about to disappear, and the worst Recession since the 1930s. Obama turned it all around. UE fell from a peak of 10.4% to 4.8% when Obama participated in the peaceful transition of power to trump. Obama also handed trump a growing economy. Hardly 'carnage'.

 

trump signed off on the budget-busting tax cut, began fiscal profligacy on a scale never seen, tried to ignore and downplay what experts knew was a major international health crisis, and finally left---not quite so peacefully---handing Biden 6.8% UE and a Recession.

 

Losers have excuses. Winners achieve results. Obama took a crisis and beat it. trump took growth and quashed it.

The garbage guys arrived about 5 minutes before this did. We're OK, thanks.

[candide]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Do you know any others that had classified documents?

Here's a hint - some say this guy might not finish his term in office, an others want to reelect him for another 4 years. 

As explained many time:

- Unlike Biden and Pence,Trump intentionally took the documents (his own words),

- Unlike Biden and Pence, Trump refused to give them back and committed an obstruction

Edited August 8, 2023 by candide

[Danderman123]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

This is just not true, do you have anything that support this? 

 

I am amazed you post so much and know so little.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_classified_documents_incident

 

"On November 2, 2022, Biden's attorneys discovered the first set of classified documents in a locked closet at the Penn Biden Center; they reported them that day to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), which retrieved them the next day. "

 

"In coordination with the Justice Department (DOJ), Biden's attorneys discovered a second set of documents at Biden's home on December 20, followed by several more on January 9 and January 12, 2023. Biden's personal attorney said on January 21 that the Justice Department discovered six items containing classification markings during a consensual search of his home the previous day, some of which dated to his tenure in the Senate; investigators also seized some of Biden's handwritten notes from his vice presidency."

 

I hope you understand the difference between immediate cooperation and *hiding* classified documents, which is what Trump did.

[candide]

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You are really unable to differentiate between the fact that willfully withholding such documents is a crime whereas merely being in possession of them is not? That returning the documents to the National Archives upon request by the National Archives is not a crime whereas refusing to return them on request is?

Of course he knows that, he's just trolling.

[Danderman123]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I see the difference, they are not Trump. 

Do you now understand that many people have been jailed for willful retention of classified documents?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Of course he knows that, he's just trolling.

And apparently a glutton for rebuttal.

[Danderman123]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So that's a no, you don't know the allegations. Thanks. 

Those indeed are allegations in the classified documents case.

 

Do you anything truthful to post, or are you just here to troll everyone? Yes, I know you are having a sad because your Dear Leader is in trouble, but can't you control yourself?

[GroveHillWanderer]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

This is just not true, do you have anything that support this?

As far as I'm aware, every article that was written about the Biden classified documents supports this.

 

Here's the info from just one source, ABC News.

 

Firstly, for the documents found at the Penn Center.

 

Quote

The White House, meanwhile, says that it immediately heard from Biden's lawyers after they found the documents, and that the National Archives took possession of them the next day.

 Biden leaves questions unanswered on classified documents

 

And for those found at his home in Wilmington:

 

Quote

The Department of Justice was immediately notified, and the lawyers arranged for the Department of Justice to take possession of the documents.

 

Classified documents found at Biden's Wilmington home

 

 

[scottiejohn]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are you really calling 70 million American voters losers? Unbelievable! 

Yes if they support the orange liar!

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Biden's attorneys discovered a second set of documents at Biden's home on December 20, followed by several more on January 9 and January 12, 2023. Biden's personal attorney said on January 21 that the Justice Department discovered six items containing classification markings during a consensual search of his home the previous day, some of which dated to his tenure in the Senate; investigators also seized some of Biden's handwritten notes from his vice presidency."

They managed to keep that quiet, dept of justice searching Biden's home, the second place he had classified docs. 

Get it together DoJ, the whole world is observing your bias. 

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They managed to keep that quiet, dept of justice searching Biden's home, the second place he had classified docs. 

Get it together DoJ, the whole world is observing your bias. 

 

The only reason the Justice Dept was searching at all was that Biden's lawyers immediately notified the Justice Dept when they found documents in his University office. And they notified the jusitce dept again when they found documents at his home. And in both cases they invited the Justice Dept to do its own searches. Do I need to spell out how that compares to the way Trump and his attorneys accommodated the Justice Dept?

Another right winger who doesn't understand that it's only willful possession of the unapproved documents that's a crime.

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They managed to keep that quiet, dept of justice searching Biden's home, the second place he had classified docs. 

Get it together DoJ, the whole world is observing your bias. 

 

Actually, the FBI kept the search at Mar-A-Lago quiet.

 

It was Trump who disclosed the search publicly.

 

Either you have no memory, or you are poorly informed. Too much FOX News for you!

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So that's a no, you don't know the allegations. Thanks. 

I know the allegations. It's in the indictment.

 

-trump willfully took documents to which he had zero right

-he was told to return them

-he refused initially

-he eventually returned some, retained others

-he lied saying he returned them all

-the FBI obtained a search warrant, entered his country club, and retrieved 11 more boxes of documents

 

Perhaps you can explain why a country club operator and wedding planner needs TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD docs? Why did trump lie and claim he returned them, when he kept many?

 

Why did he lie and claim he 'declassified' them in his mind, when as ex-POTUS, he should know full well what the declassification procedure is?

 

For many years, I had classification authority, holding TS/SCI clearance. I know the procedures on both handling and declassifying. Why didn't trump?

 

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

This is just not true, do you have anything that support this? 

 

As soon as they were discovered, both Pence and Biden allowed FBI teams to search all of their private spaces and remove anything classified they found. Neither man fought the search, neither man lied about it.

 

trump stole, trump lied.  HUGE diffeerence.,

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

In CIA or when you got an "MBA from the top biz school in the US..." did they not teach you it's a Republic, not a democracy? 

 

Keep regurgitating dude, you're on fire! 

Ah, the old absolutely meaningless "republic" vs "democracy" !

 

Please tell me what you are implying, because if you think "Republic" is a valid excuse for trying to overthrow American democracy, then....

 

 

....you're a trumper

 

The Electoral College, anachronism that it is, is an entity that takes the tallies votes from each State, where DEMOCRACY means the one with the most votes takes that State and all of its electors. Each State electors' votes are then tallied to produce a winner.

 

Biden gained the most Electoral Votes, and thus a brave and patriotic VP Pence did his ceremonial duty and certified the results, ignoring trump's demands Pence break the law, or as un-indicted co-conspirator #2 said, "it's only a minor violation' of the law. Biden wins, trump loses.

 

Incidentally, Biden crushed trump in the nationwide popular vote. HRC womped his behind, too, but the electoral college awarded the victory to trump.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Walker88