Analysis The Gaza diplomacy of Biden, Sunak and co seems to be heading for failure

[Morch]

2 hours ago, bobbin said:

A further thought on an exchange of prisoners held by the Israelis in exchange for hostages..

 

 

Apparently the last such exchange involved 6000 Palestinians for 1 Israeli solder.. Well, that was a stupid deal on the part of the Israelis, apparently spear-headed by Netanyahu for short-term political points while ignoring the long-term security implications for Israel.

 

Make the exchange negotiations public and transparent. And proportionate. The World will then have the opportunity to make their judgements. It's my opinion that this would be a more successful strategy for Israel..

 

All prisoner exchanges between Israel and terrorist organizations were like that. A whole lot of Palestinians for a few Israelis, or bodies of. The one you cite was controversial due to the circumstances involved in the kidnapping, the high price paid, and the fact that Netanyahu previously spoke against such an exchange. When it became politically desirable, he went for it.

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I think that's one fine I'm-not-an-antisemite-but-Jews-control-the-World post.

Thanks for sharing.

Not a problem, I will be the first to admit I am an anti-Zionist, nothing to do with antisemitism, except perhaps in your world, not in mine.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Not a problem, I will be the first to admit I am an anti-Zionist, nothing to do with antisemitism, except perhaps in your world, not in mine.

 

 

From your post:

 

"Never going to happen because of all the US support for Israel and the amount of Jewish influence around the globe, there is a huge amount of Jewish money supporting mainstream media and governments which influences public opinion in there favour."

 

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

 

From your post:

 

"Never going to happen because of all the US support for Israel and the amount of Jewish influence around the globe, there is a huge amount of Jewish money supporting mainstream media and governments which influences public opinion in there favour."

 

 

 

So you do not agree with the above statement or because I wrote that it makes me an antisemite?

[bobbin]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There were thousands involved in the Hamas attack. Most of them in the Gaza Strip. If it was that easy for Israel to penetrate the border at will, snatch people without a problem and do this over and over thousands of times, maybe you'd have a point. Now back to reality....

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

[bobbin]

Oh no.. it's the confused emoji. If the topic is too difficult to understand best keep it to yourself..

[Jeff the Chef]

Just now, bobbin said:

Oh no.. it's the confused emoji. If the topic is too difficult to understand best keep it to yourself..

Very good post, to which I gave a thumbs-up, not wanting to be associated with the sad one.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So you do not agree with the above statement or because I wrote that it makes me an antisemite?

 

Jews-control-the-world is a very old antisemitic trope.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Oh no.. it's the confused emoji. If the topic is too difficult to understand best keep it to yourself..

Confusion has nothing to do with the topic, ol' chap, it is the written word that maybe confusing......😉

[bobbin]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Confusion has nothing to do with the topic, ol' chap, it is the written word that maybe confusing......😉

555

 

You can't follow what I wrote? Hmmm.

[Yellowtail]

30 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

Hey Humprey, ya gonna pass that? 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, bobbin said:

555

 

You can't follow what I wrote? Hmmm.

I haven't read your thingy, I was pointing out the use of a confused emoji to you, sorry if you are confused... 😉

[bobbin]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I haven't read your thingy, I was pointing out the use of a confused emoji to you, sorry if you are confused... 😉

Got it. 

 

But sad you didn't read my thingy..

Edited October 25, 2023 by bobbin
added comment

[Yellowtail]

31 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

So a thousand people are holding 200 hostages, firing 500 rockets a day and keeping the innocent Palestinians from rising up against the hamas we are told they hate. 

 

That is good sh*t Homer...

[bobbin]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

So a thousand people are holding 200 hostages, firing 500 rockets a day and keeping the innocent Palestinians from rising up against the hamas we are told they hate. 

 

That is good sh*t Homer...

I loves me weed.. but this is not the topic to be posting stoner memes.. and this is the second one in as many posts..

 

Maybe it's time for you to lay off the bong..

[RanongCat]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

All prisoner exchanges between Israel and terrorist organizations were like that. A whole lot of Palestinians for a few Israelis, or bodies of. The one you cite was controversial due to the circumstances involved in the kidnapping, the high price paid, and the fact that Netanyahu previously spoke against such an exchange. When it became politically desirable, he went for it.

Numerous teen boys imprisoned for looking the wrong way or  throwing a rock at a concrete  wall who if they did  not  get a head shot from an Israeli trainee sniper  in exchange for 1 immature relative of  somebody  IMPORTANT ?

How  many  "thousands" ? Maybe they  get fed  better than in  Gaza?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, bobbin said:

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

 

I think you are wrong with regard to the number of participants. The initial Hamas 'elite' force was followed by Hamas 'regulars', and a Gazan mob joined shortly after. While many attackers were killed - hardly all of them, probably not even most. In addition, you'll have to include those that planned, commanded or significantly provided support for this to happen. That's a whole lot of people. As to whom committed the worse atrocities, reports vary - apparently enough evil to around, and then some.

 

If it was that easy for Israel to sneak in, find specific targets and eliminate them, many of those who planned and carried this out would have been six feet under long before the attack. It's not like a first run for many of them. Hamas got a pretty tight security going, and sure to be more. That you think it not too hard, or even realistic, doesn't mean it is.

 

And to be sure, this is not just about getting those who carried out the attack. You do that, and a couple of years later you'll have more of them - with the same facilities, infrastructure, funding and whatnot in place. Not to mention each such assassination running the risk of further casualties (if things go badly, or via Hamas retaliating). I think the tit-for-tat era is done with.

 

As for 'the world' - I don't see the world embracing multiple Israeli assassination attempts (or aerial strikes when applicable) for very long. There will soon be talk about legal issues, mistakes and all the rest.

 

What you talk about is can be carried if, indeed, discussing a limited number of potential targets, and that being the sole objective. This is not the case.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Morch

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Not a problem, I will be the first to admit I am an anti-Zionist, nothing to do with antisemitism, except perhaps in your world, not in mine.

I have agitated frequently here on people unjustifiably being called anti-semites. I would not say that for your post, clearly anti-Semitic.

[Jeff the Chef]

59 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I have agitated frequently here on people unjustifiably being called anti-semites. I would not say that for your post, clearly anti-Semitic.

I'm to long in the tooth to have any feelings about these anti this anti that, wtf is woke and all that similar garbage to care.

All I know is in my whole life I have lived by the rule of non violence towards anything, human or animal, except in self-defence.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'm to long in the tooth to have any feelings about these anti this anti that, wtf is woke and all that similar garbage to care.

All I know is in my whole life I have lived by the rule of non violence towards anything, human or animal, except in self-defence.

Ah, the old "anti semitic" attack rolled out when someone is losing the argument. Just like similar accusations of "misogynistic" when one points out the failings of a female, or "racist" when  pointing out something certain people don't like about other ethnicities.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

I have agitated frequently here on people unjustifiably being called anti-semites. I would not say that for your post, clearly anti-Semitic.

Being anti zionist is not anti semitic as not only Jews are pro zionist. It's a movement, not a race.

 

Next.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, bobbin said:

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

Excellent post, and certainly easy to understand.

 

IMO the israelis and Americans already lost public opinion in most of the world over trying to starve millions to death.

It's ironic that Russia is looking better with it's call for an immediate ceasefire than the US with it's hold out for a "pause". What the <deleted> does a "pause" mean anyway? Just keep them alive a bit longer so they can be blown to bits later?

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

While the israelis have not shared their plans for after the invasion, one can only surmise that they intend to arrest every Palestinian male left alive and able to walk, and lock them up for a very long time, as by now every Gazan must surely want nothing else than revenge against israelis.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So you do not agree with the above statement or because I wrote that it makes me an antisemite?

One can only surmise that certain posters consider anyone against the israeli actions concerning the Palestinians is "anti semitic".

[JBChiangRai]

14 hours ago, bobbin said:

Oh.. it's too difficult? Yes, it's much easier to unleash relatively un-targeted death from the sky..and hoping  a certain percentage of the casualties are active Hamas operatives blown to smithereens.. shame about the innocent women and children..

 

How many Hamas gunmen where killed by the IDF in the mop up inside Israel? I vaguely recall 1000+.. These were part of the suicide group that stayed behind. So most of the beasts are dead already.. the ones who committed the most horrific acts.

 

 

As for the difficulty of entering Gaza thousands of times to snatch people.. Firstly, the targets will not number in the thousands. This is what Israel gets wrong. There were probably a couple of thousand and half of them are dead already. Killed in Israel.

 

Second and most importantly, I didn't say anything about "snatching" anyone. I'm talking about killing them there on the spot. The hit teams will be small but if some of them are killed this is still better than large numbers of Israeli reservists and innocent civilians. That is not so difficult unless you are trying to hit all the targets in a week or two.

 

And I'm pretty sure that when Israel is talking about crippling Hamas that they are not talking about bringing any back for trial.

 

I appreciate that in many of your posts you point out that both sides have done bad things, but your bias is clear..and that's OK if you are Israeli. I am not.

 

Israel must not forget that the world is watching and forming their own opinions. I'm obviously not the first to point this out.

 

As has been said so many time re the Ukraine/Russia conflict.. It's possible to win the war and loose the Peace.

 

Is that real enough for you?

Excellent post

[JBChiangRai]

UN Chief said …

 

Mr Guterres told reporters: "I am shocked by the misrepresentations by some of my statement... as if, as if I was justifying acts of terror by Hamas. This is false. It was the opposite."

 

There seems to be a lot of that here too.  
 

It’s Shameful.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

UN Chief said …

 

Mr Guterres told reporters: "I am shocked by the misrepresentations by some of my statement... as if, as if I was justifying acts of terror by Hamas. This is false. It was the opposite."

 

There seems to be a lot of that here too.  
 

It’s Shameful.

 

 

He clarified:

 

The UN chief continues and stresses he condemns unequivocally "the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel".

Guterres points out that he said yesterday "nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets".

He goes on: "Indeed, I spoke of the grievances of the Palestinian people.

"In doing so, I clearly stated, and I quote: 'But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas'.”

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, the old "anti semitic" attack rolled out when someone is losing the argument. Just like similar accusations of "misogynistic" when one points out the failings of a female, or "racist" when  pointing out something certain people don't like about other ethnicities.

 

I don't make such allegationss often, only when the shoe fits.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Morch

[Nick Carter icp]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, the old "anti semitic" attack rolled out when someone is losing the argument. Just like similar accusations of "misogynistic" when one points out the failings of a female, or "racist" when  pointing out something certain people don't like about other ethnicities.

 

   Jeff did actually make anti sematic remarks and didn't try to hide it at all, he was quite open about it 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

He clarified:

 

The UN chief continues and stresses he condemns unequivocally "the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel".

Guterres points out that he said yesterday "nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets".

He goes on: "Indeed, I spoke of the grievances of the Palestinian people.

"In doing so, I clearly stated, and I quote: 'But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas'.”

Agreed, his opinion remains unchanged that Israeli Gov’t must stop indiscriminate bombing of Gaza’s civilians, especially in the South where they told them to move to for safety reasons.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Jeff did actually make anti sematic remarks and didn't try to hide it at all, he was quite open about it 

I though he made anti Zionist remarks, did I miss something?