Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks, but I'll keep supporting the Palestinians as long as the illegal israeli occupation, illegal collective punishment, oppression and the war crimes are being carried out against Gaza and the West Bank.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

I guess posting excuses and justifications for the 7/10 attack could give this impression.

Same goes for constantly ignoring Hamas role in the current situation.

[rabas]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I think it's completely logical to assume that 100% of Gazans support Hamas at this point and every able bodied person actively assists or fights for them. I believe it's absurd to propose that's not the case. By the way, you have yet to provide any credible link to disprove my assertion and I would suggest that a single old crazy doesn't make your point.

 

The more you learn and know about anything, the more diverse and complex it becomes. 

 

So, yeah, sure, all Gazans think alike.  I would guess many are starting to question a lot of things. 

[ezzra]

Israel has started pumping water from the Mediterranean Sea into Hamas' underground tunnel system in Gaza

and hopefully all the "rats" of Gaza will drown,

 

***Maybe it's too late in the piece to ask this question/s, but did Hamas and their supporters thought what Israel response will be to such action the Hamas and other Palestinians took on the 7th of October? did they took into account how ferocious and deadly Israel response will be? if they did and dismissed it out hands just because they took hostages, Oh, how surly mistaken they were...

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

The more you learn and know about anything, the more diverse and complex it becomes. 

 

So, yeah, sure, all Gazans think alike.  I would guess many are starting to question a lot of things. 

 

Yeah, that's the Israeli line. The more they bomb civilians the more Palestinians will blame Hamas. Insanity.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

Israel has started pumping water from the Mediterranean Sea into Hamas' underground tunnel system in Gaza

and hopefully all the "rats" of Gaza will drown,

 

***Maybe it's too late in the piece to ask this question/s, but did Hamas and their supporters thought what Israel response will be to such action the Hamas and other Palestinians took on the 7th of October? did they took into account how ferocious and deadly Israel response will be? if they did and dismissed it out hands just because they took hostages, Oh, how surly mistaken they were...

 

 

 

Do you think they didn't? Are they less intelligent than you?

[ezzra]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think they didn't? Are they less intelligent than you?

Well, i/we and the world think that they're the epitome of moronic thinking, (no offence to you yes?) to conclude, even for one minute, that they can win this war, have they given a thought to the costs of lives and utter distractions of their homes and way of life and STILL went out to what they did? so the answer to your question is a resounding YES!!!

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Well, i/we and the world think that they're the epitome of moronic thinking, (no offence to you yes?) to conclude, even for one minute, that they can win this war, have they given a thought to the costs of lives and utter distractions of their homes and way of life and STILL went out to what they did? so the answer to your question is a resounding YES!!!

 

There's the inevitable racism coming to the fore. Do you think the Israelis thought about the inevitable consequences every time they established a new settlement or shot a kid?

 

Do you think Hamas should have expected massive war crimes in retaliation?

[ezzra]

It seems that what ever sane reasoning one will put in front of you you will still take the side of bunch of barbarians who went on a suicide mission and now and the cost is too much to bare,  they go crying to the whole world to come and save them...

And please don't bother to response to this post...

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There's the inevitable racism coming to the fore. Do you think the Israelis thought about the inevitable consequences every time they established a new settlement or shot a kid?

 

Do you think Hamas should have expected massive war crimes in retaliation?

 

   It has now changed to Israel committing war crimes and Hamas being the victim of those war crimes .

   The truth and realty is that Hamas committed war crimes and Israel was the victim of those war crimes .

   You can tell the same lie over and over again , but you cannot change the truth 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, ezzra said:

It seems that what ever sane reasoning one will put in front of you you will still take the side of bunch of barbarians who went on a suicide mission and now and the cost is too much to bare,  they go crying to the whole world to come and save them...

And please don't bother to response to this post...

 

There's your first mistake, to think your reasoning is sane. Unlike you, I am not a team player. I am capable of condemning both sides and I don't defend my country's war crimes unconditionally.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It has now changed to Israel committing war crimes and Hamas being the victim of those war crimes .

   The truth and realty is that Hamas committed war crimes and Israel was the victim of those war crimes .

   You can tell the same lie over and over again , but you cannot change the truth 

 

It has not changed. You are resorting to the tactic of the losers, to attack the messenger. I have clearly and unequivocally stated that I condemn Hamas. Both sides committed war crimes and both sides should be indicted for them by the ICC.

 

People who can see both sides to a story are a problem for the propagandists on both sides.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Israel has started pumping water from the Mediterranean Sea into Hamas' underground tunnel system in Gaza

and hopefully all the "rats" of Gaza will drown,

 

***Maybe it's too late in the piece to ask this question/s, but did Hamas and their supporters thought what Israel response will be to such action the Hamas and other Palestinians took on the 7th of October? did they took into account how ferocious and deadly Israel response will be? if they did and dismissed it out hands just because they took hostages, Oh, how surly mistaken they were...

 

 

 

 

I think that the Hamas attack did not quite go as planned. Evidence suggest that they were gearing for further 'achievements', possibly holding out within Israel's borders longer. Another element which I think they underestimated or weren't ready for was the mobs of Gazans following on their trail - as I see it now, this created a whole lot of confusion in Hamas ranks as well. But these issues aside - they were obviously expecting a strong response, maybe thinking it would not be as forceful, or not culminate in a massive ground operation. With regard to the latter, seems like they overestimated their ability to resist or slow it down.

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yeah, that's the Israeli line. The more they bomb civilians the more Palestinians will blame Hamas. Insanity.

 

You line seems to be that Gazans are oblivious to Hamas part in this.

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think they didn't? Are they less intelligent than you?

 

You seem to think so.

Assuming all Gazans hold the same positions embodies such a view.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

 

You line seems to be that Gazans are oblivious to Hamas part in this.

 

Operative word here is "seems" Your struggling.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

It has not changed. You are resorting to the tactic of the losers, to attack the messenger. I have clearly and unequivocally stated that I condemn Hamas. Both sides committed war crimes and both sides should be indicted for them by the ICC.

 

People who can see both sides to a story are a problem for the propagandists on both sides.

 

  You are mistaken .

Hamas committed war crimes

Israel  hasn't committed war crimes 

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There's the inevitable racism coming to the fore. Do you think the Israelis thought about the inevitable consequences every time they established a new settlement or shot a kid?

 

Do you think Hamas should have expected massive war crimes in retaliation?

 

There is no 100% Israeli support for the illegal settlement effort in the West Bank, or indeed, to Israel's occupation of the territory. On the contrary, there are many voices who warn about the consequences. The question raised in the post you replied to was more to do with Hamas, rather than Palestinians as a whole, or even Gazans as a group. Not same same.

 

I think that you're making a whole lot of loaded questions. Part of how you roll on these forums.

[placeholder]

23 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Same core comments.

Actually, if you had read just the opening paragraph of the article you would have noted that a Washington Post reporter found fragments of white phosphorous casings at the site which were traced back to shells supplied to Israel by the USA.

And, of course, on top of that, it's The Washington Post scrutinizing those claims. Ya think they rushed into publishing this article? That they didn't scrutinize the evidence? 

"Israel used U.S.-supplied white phosphorus munitions in an October attack in southern Lebanon that injured at least nine civilians in what a rights group says should be investigated as a war crime, according to a Washington Post analysis of shell fragments found in a small village.

A journalist working for The Post found remnants of three 155mm artillery rounds fired into Dheira, near the border of Israel, which incinerated at least four homes, residents said. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/12/11/israel-us-white-phosphorus-lebanon/

. 

[Wobblybob]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There's your first mistake, to think your reasoning is sane. Unlike you, I am not a team player. I am capable of condemning both sides and I don't defend my country's war crimes unconditionally.

I look forward to seeing the other side of you, because I cannot remember you condemning the barbaric terrorists, go on give it a go, condemn the evil satanic terrorists and their trusted brainwashed followers.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

There is no 100% Israeli support for the illegal settlement effort in the West Bank, or indeed, to Israel's occupation of the territory. On the contrary, there are many voices who warn about the consequences. The question raised in the post you replied to was more to do with Hamas, rather than Palestinians as a whole, or even Gazans as a group. Not same same.

 

I think that you're making a whole lot of loaded questions. Part of how you roll on these forums.

 

I am well aware that there is opposition to the settlements and to Israeli - Palestinian policies in general among Israelis. Do yourself a favor and cut the projection.

 

If you think my questions are "loaded" it's because you feel challenged by them. I don't see people such as yourself here wanting to talk about tens of thousands of dead civilians and how that might have been avoided. Notably absent is any condemnation of Netanyahu's role in this even though it's widespread within Israel. I'm not seeing centrist Israelis here.

 

Anyway, that's my ration for the day, I'm off to Central Festival to buy Xmas cards for my condo staff, if there's any left.

[ezzra]

With figures ranging from 15-20,000 dead Gazan people many of whom are Hamas terrorists and their leadership, where do they think the're going with it exactly? Win? absolutely not? pity of the world and more aids and billions of dollars that the Hamas can put their hands on? yes...do they care how many more Gazan will die and what their cities and towns will left once it is all over? not very likly, Palestinians lives are expendable and cheap and are used by others as a scapegoats...

[placeholder]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:11 AM, 1happykamper said:

The dividing of America continues. Why do you have to be right? It's important for you? Why? 

 

Non of us know the truth. 

 

May I suggest that the recent Netflix movie... Produced by Obama... Leaving the World Behind... will be a stark reminder to what miss information is capable of doing. 

 

Grow up and your Improve critical thinking skills 

Apparently you think you know the "truth": namely, that none of us know the truth. None of us may know the whole truth, but plenty of us know what's false.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There's your first mistake, to think your reasoning is sane. Unlike you, I am not a team player. I am capable of condemning both sides and I don't defend my country's war crimes unconditionally.

 

Your posts demonstrate that you invest far more energy into condemning Israel.  

[Morch]

51 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Operative word here is "seems" Your struggling.

 

Not struggling, just not into your own style of posting.

I use seems as to give you the benefit of the doubt, and room to explain your position.

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  You are mistaken .

Hamas committed war crimes

Israel  hasn't committed war crimes 

 

Again with this nonsense?

You and the poster your replied to are practically clones when it comes to these sort of statements.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Yeah, that's the Israeli line. The more they bomb civilians the more Palestinians will blame Hamas. Insanity.

 

No, it's from science. One of Richard Feynman's favorites. If it's all simple and all looks the same then you don't understand it yet. 

 

Propagandist's will tell you it's very simple and everyone hates their enemy. 

 

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, if you had read just the opening paragraph of the article you would have noted that a Washington Post reporter found fragments of white phosphorous casings at the site which were traced back to shells supplied to Israel by the USA.

And, of course, on top of that, it's The Washington Post scrutinizing those claims. Ya think they rushed into publishing this article? That they didn't scrutinize the evidence? 

"Israel used U.S.-supplied white phosphorus munitions in an October attack in southern Lebanon that injured at least nine civilians in what a rights group says should be investigated as a war crime, according to a Washington Post analysis of shell fragments found in a small village.

A journalist working for The Post found remnants of three 155mm artillery rounds fired into Dheira, near the border of Israel, which incinerated at least four homes, residents said. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/12/11/israel-us-white-phosphorus-lebanon/

. 

 

Oh, I read the thing.

 

Note that this is not from a WP reporter, but a freelancer (mentioned in the article). Previously based in Jordan, nowadays in Lebanon. Most of his articles and columns on related issues are negative toward Israel, often broadcasting the other side's (be it Palestinian, Lebanese, Hezbollah etc.) points and positions. If not mistaken, currently mainly works for a Qatari owned, Palestinian run publication. Considering this involves Hezbollah, expecting him to be openly critical, weary or even objective regarding this is an choice. I think the WP is being careful, leaving some hedging room by stating the source.

 

As the area is controlled by Hezbollah (addressed in the article), reporters will see what Hezbollah allows them to see. There is no clear indication where the fragments were found, or even whether they relate to the current incident. Same goes for citizens' reports - do you think they are likely to go against Hezbollah? Again, a choice.

 

Israel's comments on this was that such means were indeed used, but against areas where Hezbollah was staging, and against Hezbollah infrastructure.

 

It's customary for the USA to express concern at such reports, and this is not the first time such comments were made. Don't think a whole lot came out of previous instances. Guess that Israel presents more detailed  information to USA counterparts, and that sort of where it ends.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

I look forward to seeing the other side of you, because I cannot remember you condemning the barbaric terrorists, go on give it a go, condemn the evil satanic terrorists and their trusted brainwashed followers.

 

He does one liner Hamas condemnations now and then. Nothing as detailed or fiery as when addressing Israel's perceived sins.

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Again with this nonsense?

You and the poster your replied to are practically clones when it comes to these sort of statements.

 

  Its quite simple and straightforward

Hamas committed numerous war crimes , taking hostages for one .

   Israel hasn't committed any war crimes .

If he keeps stating that Israel has committed war crimes , I just have to keep replying that Israel hasn't committed war crimes 

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Its quite simple and straightforward

Hamas committed numerous war crimes , taking hostages for one .

   Israel hasn't committed any war crimes .

If he keeps stating that Israel has committed war crimes , I just have to keep replying that Israel hasn't committed war crimes 

 

If you ignore the killing of over 3,300 civilians and injuring over 12,000 in indiscriminate bombing raids then your statement might be accurate.

 

 

The strikes hit specifically protected locations, including hospitals, markets, refugee camps, mosques, educational facilities, and entire neighborhoods.[84] A group of UN special rapporteurs asserted Israel's indiscriminate airstrikes are "absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime."

 

 

 

But it isn't - and by keep repeating something doesn't make it right.