Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

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4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Given * a bombing policy that even the Biden administration thinks is way over the top, you think a charge of ethnic cleansing is presumptively invalid? Allow me to acquaint you with the definition of ethnic cleansing

"Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing#:~:text=Ethnic cleansing is the systematic,making a region ethnically homogeneous.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're wrong.

He distinguishes between citizens of Israel and the West Bank situation  

Actually, for whatever his opinion is worth, Chomsky actually says that the situation in the West Bank is worse than apartheid.

 “In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid,” Chomsky says. “To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison.”

https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I wonder if these were vengeful/rogue soldiers  or the were given orders. We know Netanahu's plan(that was uncivered recently) to get all Gazans to leave for Egypt etc.

 

   As I understand the Israeli solders were given orders not to shoot .

Netanyahu doesn't give the orders on battle felids , the Army do that 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Not true, I want Israel to exist.

 

They want to accuse anyone who criticises Israel of any of antisemitism, racism, supporting Hamas, supporting terrorism. Take your pick.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

 

Actually, for whatever his opinion is worth, Chomsky actually says that the situation in the West Bank is worse than apartheid.

 “In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid,” Chomsky says. “To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison.”

https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

Yes he does that.

About the west bank.

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Not true, I want Israel to exist.

I don't believe that you do want Israel to exist as a Jewish state. 

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4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The Israel V Muslim Country confrontation is based on Religion .

Muslims consider Jews and Christians  to be unbelievers and only Muslims believe in the true God.

Muslims view it as a Religious war, Israel  views it as a battle for survival 

 

One has to be astonishingly ignorant of the Israeli rule in the West Bank and Gaza to believe that Palestinian hatred of Israel is based on anti-semitism. There's no doubt that anti-semitism is prevalent in the community. But, as I pointed out to you before, and to no avail, the Palestinians have plenty of reasons for hating Israel that have nothing to do with it being a Jewish country.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes he does that.

About the west bank.

 

 

Easier work visas for Gazans was just about divide and rule.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's based on land and resources.

 

   There may be disagreements on that issue, but the Muslims Countries are fighting on behalf of Muhamad and his words from their God in the Koran 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I don't believe that you do want Israel to exist as a Jewish state. 

 

I think you don't want Palesitinians to exists as a state.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

They want to accuse anyone who criticises Israel of any of antisemitism, racism, supporting Hamas, supporting terrorism. Take your pick.

I know and I blocked most of them for saying so. However, I like hearing educated views on the situation. I've not listened much to Chomsky before and find his material extremely educational; he must be one of the most knowledagble in the world on this topic.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There may be disagreements on that issue, but the Muslims Countries are fighting on behalf of Muhamad and his words from their God in the Koran 

 

Propaganda. Here we have a Jew telling Muslims how they worship.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't believe that you do want Israel to exist as a Jewish state. 

I do want Israel to exist but alongside non-Jews. Why would I not want that? I am an immigrant and value equal rights with no discrimination.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There may be disagreements on that issue, but the Muslims Countries are fighting on behalf of Muhamad and his words from their God in the Koran 

So much ignorance on display. Jewish and Christian communities in much of the Muslim world thrived for 1500 years. In fact, Jews generally fared a lot better in Muslim lands than they did in Christian Europe. And even where they were treated badly by Muslims, as were Christians, they weren't demonized by Muslims the way they were in Europe. There was no blood libel, no blame for Jews killing Jesus etc. Why do you feel compelled to advertise your ignorance?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

One has to be astonishingly ignorant of the Israeli rule in the West Bank and Gaza to believe that Palestinian hatred of Israel is based on anti-semitism. There's no doubt that anti-semitism is prevalent in the community. But, as I pointed out to you before, and to no avail, the Palestinians have plenty of reasons for hating Israel that have nothing to do with it being a Jewish country.

 

  Oh your favourite word again, "anti Semitism " , I didn't mention that word at all .

Muslims believe that Israel should be a Muslim Country because Mohammed lived there .

That is why Muslim Countries are opposed to there being a Jewish Country there 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Israel declaring war against Hamas does not mean the war started on that date. The Israelis would love people to think the Hamas attack occurred out of the blue.

 

   Honestly, you have the same discussion every few days and keep saying the same things over and over again 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't know about that but whether it is or isn't, I think it's pretty clear that Israeli is using the bombing campaign to somewhat depopulate Gaza. Not by genocide, but just by making the place uninhabitable for a good portion of the population.

 

Making a place uninhabitable with he stated intention of removing its inhabitants is genocide according to the accepted definition.

[placeholder]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Oh your favourite word again, "anti Semitism " , I didn't mention that word at all .

Muslims believe that Israel should be a Muslim Country because Mohammed lived there .

That is why Muslim Countries are opposed to there being a Jewish Country there 

People will use whatever issues they can when fighting off what they see as unjust treatment based on religion, race, or ethnicity,. This goes for South African blacks, Algerians, Kenyans, Native Americans etc. Even if it the case that Muslins cite this as a reason to oppose Israel, that wouldn't be anti-Semitism. Just anti-otherism.

And while there's a legend that Mohammed ascended to Heaven from where the Dome of the Rock is now located, that's doesn't appear in the Koran. And Mohammed never lived in what is Israel however it's defined. He spent his whole life in Saudi Arabia. That doesn't mean that some Muslims don't believe otherwise.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Honestly, you have the same discussion every few days and keep saying the same things over and over again 

Whereas your comments are an unceasing font of originality?

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

They want to accuse anyone who criticises Israel of any of antisemitism, racism, supporting Hamas, supporting terrorism. Take your pick.

 

 

   LOL ,just LOL 

No one who criticizes Israel has been accused of Anti Semitism (Pro Palestinians keep making that false accusation ) , Its your side who keeps accusing others of Islamophobia and racism .

   Denying that Hamas teach Children to terrorise is indeed supporting Hamas and supporting terrorism 

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

We know Netanhu's plan. He wants to force them to go to Egypt and other countries, but it is not ethnic cleansing.

I believe that one reason for the massive level of bombing is to force many or even most Gazans to move elsewhere. Not sure that any Mideast government wants to receive them. So it's not so much a plan as it is a kind of hope.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   LOL ,just LOL 

No one who criticizes Israel has been accused of Anti Semitism (Pro Palestinians keep making that false accusation ) , Its your side who keeps accusing others of Islamophobia and racism .

   Denying that Hamas teach Children to terrorise is indeed supporting Hamas and supporting terrorism 

 

 

I've been accused of antisemitism for no reason other than opposition to Israeli policies and Netanyahu in particular. Numerous times.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Whereas your comments are an unceasing font of originality?

 

  I didn't reply to him yet again about when the war started , I have already replied to him four times already about that in other threads saying the same thing , no point in saying it again . 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I've been accused of antisemitism for no reason other than opposition to Israeli policies and Netanyahu in particular. Numerous times.

 

   No you haven't .

You were accused of making anti sematic remarks, because you made anti sematic remarks and you weren't criticising Israel 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I didn't reply to him yet again about when the war started , I have already replied to him four times already about that in other threads saying the same thing , no point in saying it again . 

Well, you keep on repeating the same stuff about anti-semitism being based on the Koran and Islam when history shows that's not the case.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No you haven't .

You were accused of making anti sematic remarks, because you made anti sematic remarks and you weren't criticising Israel 

 

There's a difference? I made antisemitic remarks but I wasn't criticizing Israel. I challenge you to show where that's true or withdraw the accusation. I have not referenced Jews in any posts where I was accused of making antisemitic remarks. Not one.

[Nick Carter icp]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There's a difference? I made antisemitic remarks but I wasn't criticizing Israel. I challenge you to show where that's true or withdraw the accusation. I have not referenced Jews in any posts where I was accused of making antisemitic remarks. Not one.

 

  This thread isn't all about you and I wont be trawling back through threads looking for posts .

[Nick Carter icp]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, you keep on repeating the same stuff about anti-semitism being based on the Koran and Islam when history shows that's not the case.

 

   Well, apart from I haven't mentioned Anti Semitism at all , and only wrote it in reply to you mentioning it 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  This thread isn't all about you and I wont be trawling back through threads looking for posts .

 

You're comfortable about accusing me of antisemitism but when challenged you can't or won't say where. Nice.

 

It's a serious flame but you just flip it off.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

You're confortable about accusing me of antisemitism but when challenged you can't or won't say where. Nice.

 

   I do recall that it was pointed out at the time . 

Did you forget or something ?

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I do recall that it was pointed out at the time . 

Did you forget or something ?

 

It was accused, not "pointed out" by a number of people and now amplified by you. Have the cohones to show me the posts or apologise.