Sneaking around corners on motorbikes

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your classroom approach to this issue is missing reality.

 

No offense to anyone but this is what happens when you're brainwashed by egalitarian propaganda. People just can't accept that Thai's are dangerous drivers and it's their own fault. There's always some system to blame but never the individual. I've seen this many times before. Very difficult to get through to these people.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:56 PM, NorthernRyland said:

The Thairath Online YouTube channel really is a treasure trove of road accident videos. They post these like once day as if it's even news anymore.

 

This is a typical driving pattern you see in Thailand and should be aware of. The guy on the motorbike is turning left at a junction and goes into the right lane then proceeds to sneak around the corner when entering the road. I don't know why people think this is a good idea but I see it all the time here. It's almost like "if I can't see them they can't see me" mentality. Total mental.

 

So in this incident the guy sneaks out into the road to see if he can make it across and hits a woman carrying a 1 year old child and who is also 7 months pregnant. Just consider the utter shambles of a scene but this could happen anywhere if you're not lucky and don't watch intersections like a hawk since these guys could be lurking around the corner.

 

As usual they present this matter of fact as if it's a legit accident instead of a pattern of driving which is totally normal here. No sessions to be learned it seems.

 

 

I will say this again despite of being ridiculed by a certain deluded poster. There is a reason why the average Somchai and Ms Somchai have only an 80% odd IQ.

The nice honest Thai person who runs after you when you walk away from a counter after forgetting to pick up your change, could very easily be the same person who jumps on their motorbike and rides up the wrong side of the road then turning into a main road without checking if it is safe to do so.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:24 AM, kwilco said:

Like so many foreigners, you don't understand driving in Thailand or the video. THen try to make up some wierd assumptions as if you are superior to Thai people.

You do realise that you can watch the same sort of driving in videos from all over the world including UK?

Check the road accident fatalities of the UK against Thailand taking into account they both have similar populations. I rest my case.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:17 PM, it is what it is said:

 

like many of the mad and dangerous traffic traits here it's basically down to laziness and lack of attention.

Stupidity?? Low IQ's??

[giddyup]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:22 PM, kwilco said:

...my point is there is no point explaining this to people who can't understand - you are a case in point.

Copout.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:23 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  Find that very hard to believe; why is it not an issue, don't they have traffic accidents in the UK?

Not anywhere near what it is in Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:31 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

While Britons, and others, have quite a few positive attributes, there is no denying that many are just as sh!t drivers.

So Britain has as many sh!t drivers as Thailand?? Did I read your post properly.

[NanLaew]

Context. Motorcycles are involved in around 80% of road traffic accidents, injuries and death.

 

Note how the smart guy in the red pickup easily drove past the "carnage" totally unscathed.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:50 PM, kwilco said:

I agree - You will also know that the substance used has inferior reflective and friction qualities. You will also know that in UK and EU their are standard formulae for where road markings and signs are stationed - i am of the opinion that there are NO qualified traffic engineers in Thailand - the entire system is haphazard and inconsistent. 

 

These things actually do make a difference as you are probably aware that they work "subliminally" and the male motorcyclist may well have positioned himself better before entering the junction. As it was he was able to ignore the stop line and this was probably s=due to its positioning and a lack of visibility at the junction - this is not available from the video.

When designing these junctions in UK a lot of research goes into how rto position them and how people observe and adhere to road signs and markings - there is little or no evidence of this on any Thai roads.

When Thai roads are repaired with patches of tar it is always left uneven and  that when you ride your motorbike over it you can feel the bumps, I just accepted that as "TiT".

Recently I rode the 12 Highway from Phitsanulok to Petchabun, there are many patches, but the job is done properly and when you ride over them you cannot feel the difference.

The road markings and signs are all perfect unlike on my trip to Kanchanaburi last week.

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

On 12/7/2023 at 9:31 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

While Britons, and others, have quite a few positive attributes, there is no denying that many are just as sh!t drivers.

So Britain has as many sh!t drivers as Thailand?? Did I read your post properly.

 

I just spent a dozen days in England and had to avoid three "sh!t drivers" (one particularly persistent idiot was in a car park).

 

It takes me about a month to reach the same tally up here in Nakhon Nowhere.

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

I just spent a dozen days in England and had to avoid three "sh!t drivers" (one particularly persistent idiot was in a car park).

 

It takes me about a month to reach the same tally up here in Nakhon Nowhere.

How heavy is the traffic in Nakhon Nowhere?

[NoshowJones]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:43 AM, kwilco said:

The 5 pillars of road safety are

 

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

 

In relation to this video how do they apply?

Firstly we must acknowledge that the videos doesn’t show the whole picture – particularly the course of the woman when out of camera shot and the angles of visibility.

 

Education

Both parties involved clearly have little education on road safety – most governments do this but in Thailand it is almost non-existent, they didn’t even think to wear crash helmets and are using pee-taught driving techniques that are common to Thai road users. The woman clearly had restricted control over her vehicle. This means when human error occurs the results tend to be more serious than they need to be.

(my guess is the woman saw the bike come out of the junction and assumed she would pass behind, but the man saw her late and stopped thinking she would go in front – the resulting combination of human errors  - split second judgements – meant the collision occurred)

 

Enforcement

No -one stopped them from driving without helmets or carry an under-age passenger

 

Engineering means both vehicles and roads – we can’t judge the vehicles but as has been pointed out there are several concerns about the junction – road markings and visibility been the most obvious.

 

Emergency – the response time in the UK for SERIOUS injury is 8 minutes (at present this doesn’t happen very often) BUT in Thailand there are no targets and no uniform emergency services, first responders or paramedics.

 

Evaluation – as can be seen by the nonsense promulgated on this thread alone analysis and metrication of this accident is pure conjecture by amateurs. Will the police do any better  - of course not!  The result is we learn nothing from this to help prevent future crashes

 

PS – “sneaking round the corner” i=s not a complete description.

 

The man is obviously being cautious because he can’t see properly and the lines of travel is extremely common on Thai roads – if you want to understand this then you need to understand that unlike Europe where road travel was common before the motorcar, in Thailand the main mode of transport was by boat – the traffic sense, rules and behaviour stem largely from that culture hence the line of the male motorcyclist.

If you repeat to yourself whilst driving in Thailand “I’m in a boat” “I’m in a boat” you’ll suddenly find you for in with the traffic much better.

Of course if you’ve never navigated a boat on a river, it may not be that apparent to you. You have to shed your horse and cart mentality for a boat one.

 

"The 5 pillars of road safety are", There is a 6th one, probably the most important. Common Sense. Very little of that among most Thai's with their average IQ of 80% plus.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:41 AM, stoner said:

 

what does that have anything to do with not stopping ? the man approached the intersection which has a solid white line. this means stop.

 

if he had of stopped checked and made sure all was clear first then proceeded ok. but he didn't. so the position of the woman matters not as it is his responsibility to ensure the road is clear before proceeding. 

This is where the common sense bit comes in, he obviously does not have any.

[NoshowJones]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:40 AM, Lacessit said:

I drive between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai regularly. For 12 years, I have seen Thai drivers do the most stupid things. Not isolated instances, these are routine occurrences. Running red lights, overtaking up crests and on blind curves, texting while driving, assuming right of way. IME, most Thai drivers seem to think mirrors are for applying makeup, or squeezing pimples. 80% of the motorists on two wheels are not wearing helmets, and some even remove their rear vision mirrors.

 

When I first started driving in Thailand, I got my Thai scooter license on the strength of an Australian car license, a 200 baht medical certificate, and being able to identify the colors of a traffic light.

 

Subsequently, I got my Australian motorcycle license. The written test was 40 questions, split evenly between road laws, and motorcycle driving skills. The pass mark was 35/40. If one failed, re-apply in one months' time.

The practical test consisted of 15 minutes checking skills such as slow riding, an obstacle course, braking from a specified speed within a specified distance, etc. Put one foot on the ground during the tests, you flunked.

 

It's a serious offense in Australia to drive without a license. 6 month's jail for a second time. Here, 200 baht papers over everything.

 

If you want to talk about racism, consider this: Any accident dispute between a foreigner and a Thai which is taken to the police will almost automatically be resolved in favor of the Thai, irrespective of who is at fault. If I am a racist, why would I be with my Thai GF for nearly ten years?

 

The link between poor driver education/training and high death and injury rates on the roads is indisputable, regardless of which country it is. IMO anyone who thinks otherwise is an imbecile.

 

 

You mention running red lights. I am not condoning this, but the reason so many Thai drivers run red lights is the settings of the lights means a very long wait. ie I was sitting on a red light at a very busy crossroads, the road approaching from my right was on a green light, but there were no traffic on it while the other three roads approaching the crossroads had a long line of traffic waiting for the green light.

[Liverpool Lou]

40 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

On 12/7/2023 at 9:31 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

While Britons, and others, have quite a few positive attributes, there is no denying that many are just as sh!t drivers.

So Britain has as many sh!t drivers as Thailand?? Did I read your post properly.

Yes, probably, I wouldn't be surprised.  Doubtless you've got some statistics to refute that, though, but bear in mind the subject is "shlt drivers", not numbers of road deaths.  Just because someone is British doesn't make them an ace driver or automatically better than many Thai drivers.   

[brianburi]

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, probably, I wouldn't be surprised.  Doubtless you've got some statistics to refute that, though, but bear in mind the subject is "shlt drivers", not numbers of road deaths.  Just because someone is British doesn't make them an ace driver or automatically better than many Thai drivers.   

Memo to - UK Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency.

Scrap lessons and driving tests as we can produce the same sh*t drivers as Thailand. 

Laughing Lou - who must hit the bottle early to write such garbage.......

 

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

You mention running red lights. I am not condoning this, but the reason so many Thai drivers run red lights is the settings of the lights means a very long wait. ie I was sitting on a red light at a very busy crossroads, the road approaching from my right was on a green light, but there were no traffic on it while the other three roads approaching the crossroads had a long line of traffic waiting for the green light.

There is another reason, which is a product of the Thai driving mindset. Some drivers are running red lights because they are scared of being rear-ended.

I can remember slowing for an orange light, and watching some d!ckhead in a pickup in my mirrors, coming up far too fast on me. I finished up halfway into the intersection avoiding a collision, fortunately the green light traffic cut me some slack.

The incident had me thinking a rear-mounted machine gun would be useful.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

How heavy is the traffic in Nakhon Nowhere?

 

Same same Accrington, Blackburn and Preston.

 

Why?

[NONG CHOK]

It appears that many new traffic signs have been installed in Pattaya in recent months. When I go for my daily 2 hours walk commencing at 6.15 am I've never noticed one sign that's ever observed. This is mainly in the Wongamat area where people seem to think that they aren't being noticed. Cars, motorbikes and even tour buses only know one speed, flat out. Don't worry many farangs copy the Thai way.

[alien365]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There is another reason, which is a product of the Thai driving mindset. Some drivers are running red lights because they are scared of being rear-ended.

I can remember slowing for an orange light, and watching some d!ckhead in a pickup in my mirrors, coming up far too fast on me. I finished up halfway into the intersection avoiding a collision, fortunately the green light traffic cut me some slack.

The incident had me thinking a rear-mounted machine gun would be useful.

I've had two accidents here and both involved being hit from behind when the lights had turned red. The first was a high school kid riding a bike who was too busy talking to his mates on the back of his bike. I saw him in my mirrors but there's nothing I could do when I wasn't first at the light. The second was a lady in a Teana. My dashcam showed she was looking at her phone. 

 

I'll await being called a racist now, that I don't know the road rules, that I must be wrong for getting annoyed by these incidents, and that I'm victim blaming for sharing my anecdotal experience from the latest troll. Oh yes I forgot, something about boats... 

[NorthernRyland]

8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I just spent a dozen days in England and had to avoid three "sh!t drivers" (one particularly persistent idiot was in a car park).

 

What did they do? I'm sure I can find 3 drivers doing worse things in 10 minutes in Chiang Mai. Really hard to compare Thailand to any western country.

[NorthernRyland]

8 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

Common Sense. Very little of that among most Thai's with their average IQ of 80% plus.

So many Thai people don't seem to develop conscientiousness in their life times. They're in a culture in which you can basically do anything and don't have to worry about the consequences or effects on others because no one will call out on your bad behavior. You could drive your whole life like the biggest dick possible and not once will the police ever stop you and very unlikely another person will even do anything.  It's not just driving but burning, loud music, dogs and probably more.

 

Why they are like this is in the first place is the big question and probably related to genetics to some degree. I wish I could get in their heads but that's impossible I think.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, alien365 said:

I've had two accidents here and both involved being hit from behind when the lights had turned red. The first was a high school kid riding a bike who was too busy talking to his mates on the back of his bike. I saw him in my mirrors but there's nothing I could do when I wasn't first at the light. The second was a lady in a Teana. My dashcam showed she was looking at her phone. 

 

I'll await being called a racist now, that I don't know the road rules, that I must be wrong for getting annoyed by these incidents, and that I'm victim blaming for sharing my anecdotal experience from the latest troll. Oh yes I forgot, something about boats... 

Being called a racist is simply dishonest argument. It's a cop-out, when all the road death and injury statistics are saying Thailand is one of the worst countries in the two categories.

I wonder how I can be pigeonholed that way, when I speak reasonable Thai, and continue to have a good relationship with my Thai GF for nearly ten years.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, alien365 said:

I've had two accidents here and both involved being hit from behind when the lights had turned red. The first was a high school kid riding a bike who was too busy talking to his mates on the back of his bike.

They lack discipline and emotional maturity so they can't simply slow down and accept their fate of waiting 60 seconds. Just today there is some festival in the mountains and I watched pickup trucks packed with kids in the back and rushing to overtake me while narrowly slipping though a gap while another large truck passes them. If any slight error happens they only have maybe 3 feet of distance between them and the other truck and all the kids die a horrible death. What kind of person does this? It feels like a country of reckless teenagers some days.

 

What gets me in Chiang Mai is at traffic lights people will sneak in to the left lane to skip the line and then push their way in as the light turns green. Totally normal and no one says anything about it. How selfish are these people that they can't wait their turn and what's wrong with everyone else not being outraged? 

[NorthernRyland]

20 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Being called a racist is simply dishonest argument. It's a cop-out, when all the road death and injury statistics are saying Thailand is one of the worst countries in the two categories.

I wonder how I can be pigeonholed that way, when I speak reasonable Thai, and continue to have a good relationship with my Thai GF for nearly ten years.

so-called racism is just middle class white liberal morality and there's no reason to pay any attention to it anymore. It used to mean actual racial hatred targeted at entire group but now it's catch-all for not believing all people on the planet are perfectly equal in every way. Literally observing manifest reality is racist now.

 

I have a policy that I don't want Thai people living too near me now unless they can be vetted because I've had so many problems with noise, dogs, burning etc... but that makes me a racist because "not all Thai people are the same" Yeah I know that, I don't care, it keeps happening so I'm taking evasive action.

[NanLaew]

35 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

What did they do? I'm sure I can find 3 drivers doing worse things in 10 minutes in Chiang Mai. Really hard to compare Thailand to any western country.

 

1 ) Traffic merging. I'm in nearside lane, doing about 60 mph, I see a truck, a pickup and panel van coming down the slip road on my left. I move to middle lane to let them onto the nearside lane. The pickup driver decides to accelerate past the truck without signal or looking in mirror, barrelling into the middle lane, nearly sideswiping me. I jigged into the 'fast' lane to avoid him. If there had been a vehicle passing on my right, it would have been a three-car pile-up.

 

2 ) Tractor trailer hogging the middle lane on the M6 (motorway) as he tries to overtake a smaller truck in the nearside lane. Both doing the regulation 70 mph but neither driver has the brains to back off and either give up the overtake or slow down and let the bigger guy pass. The 'fast lane' tailback was about three to four miles. Loads of flashing headlights... just like in Bahn Nawk.

 

3 ) The parking lot guy was a just too sad. Swore blind that I had 'whacked' his door with my door while I was disembarking. Couldn't see any marks on either door but he demanded I open my door again so he could point out exactly where I had 'whacked' him. I politely declined to play silly buggers and he threatened me saying he had my registration number. I reminded him that the day happened to be my birthday. When he asked what that had to do with anything, I told him it had absolutely no relevance at all, just like him having my registration number.

 

I visit the UK twice a year and I have to say their standard of driving gets worse every time. Hardly see any police cars anywhere either, same same here.

 

 

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

 

What gets me in Chiang Mai is at traffic lights people will sneak in to the left lane to skip the line and then push their way in as the light turns green. Totally normal and no one says anything about it. How selfish are these people that they can't wait their turn and what's wrong with everyone else not being outraged? 

When I see that, I think fondly of the film "Ben Hur" and the chariots with sword blades on the wheels.

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

Common Sense. V

Exactly the WRONG answer! - THe 5 pillars are from scientific approach to road safety - "common sense" is deliberately not there

Again going back to archaic views and blame game - in reality common sense is irrelevant and subjective - your "common sense" is not the same as another's - thinking it is on a road is dangerous.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by kwilco

[papa al]

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

What gets me in Chiang Mai is at traffic lights people will sneak in to the left lane to skip the line and then push their way in as the light turns green. Totally normal and no one says anything about it. How selfish are these people that they can't wait their turn and what's wrong with everyone else not being outraged? 

Amen !!

Anyone who doesn't think like us

should be scorned.

Damn right.!

World definitely needs more outrage.

[Lacessit]

13 hours ago, kwilco said:

Exactly the WRONG answer! - THe 5 pillars are from scientific approach to road safety - "common sense" is deliberately not there

Again going back to archaic views and blame game - in reality common sense is irrelevant and subjective - your "common sense" is not the same as another's - thinking it is on a road is dangerous.

 

Remind me please - where in any of your posts is there mention of threat assessment? IMO that is the single most important thing to bring to the table, when driving on Thai roads.