Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[CharlieH]

 

US President Joe Biden has said Israel is starting to lose global support over its "indiscriminate bombing" of Gaza.

His comments, made to donors at a fundraising event on Tuesday, marked his strongest criticism yet of Israel's leadership.

Mr Biden has offered unwavering public support to the country since Hamas launched its attacks on 7 October.

And while he reiterated that Israel could count on US backing, he issued a direct warning to its government.

"Israel's security can rest on the United States, but right now it has more than the United States. It has the European Union, it has Europe, it has most of the world," he told donors to his 2024 re-election campaign in Washington.

"But they're starting to lose that support by indiscriminate bombing that takes place," he said.

 

Mr Biden, however, added that there was "no question about the need to take on Hamas" and Israel had "every right" to do so.

The US leader has faced growing pressure, including from within his own Democratic Party, to rein in Israel's military campaign. Washington recently urged its ally to "put a premium on human life" and give clearer instructions to allow people to avoid the conflict in Gaza.

Senior US officials have also displayed increasing discontent at Israel's response.

The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said on Tuesday that more than 18,400 people had been killed by Israeli bombing since 7 October, when Hamas broke through Israel's heavily guarded perimeter and killed 1,200 people.

In a statement, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel had received the "full backing" of the US for its ground war and its goal of destroying Hamas and recovering hostages.

He added that Washington had blocked "international pressure to stop the war".

 

"Yes, there is disagreement about 'the day after Hamas' and I hope that we will reach [an] agreement here as well," he said.

 

FULL STORY

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

US President Joe Biden has said Israel is starting to lose global support over its "indiscriminate bombing" of Gaza.

Israel has lost global support over its "indiscriminate bombing" of Gaza.

 

Fixed the title. Only 10 against the resolution just adopted in the UN general assembly. That's a pretty dramatic display of opposition to israel.

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Israel has lost global support over its "indiscriminate bombing" of Gaza.

 

Fixed the title. Only 10 against the resolution just adopted in the UN general assembly. That's a pretty dramatic display of opposition to israel.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

This was commented on almost at the start of these topics.

 

They dynamics are well known, and expected.

What is out of the ordinary is how long the support phase lasted, and how muted the lack of support was/is (I'll get to Biden's words, don't worry).

 

To put things in perspective, this is a non-binding resolution, meaning it is of declarative value. As such countries are way more likely to vote for, because it doesn't mean a whole lot. Not the first or the last of these. Also, note that 23 other counties abstained or did not vote (among them such lightweights such as the UK, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands).

 

Just another day on the UN.

 

As for Biden words - one got to appreciate the dilemma you're faced with. On the one hand, topic after topic, you denigrate and ridicule the man as having no clue what he's talking about. Now he comes out and say something you like, can't really have a decent go at him. I do remember, however, that near the start of this war you were all over the place about Biden's comments regarding the atrocities (that thing with the pictures he claimed to have been shown and than retracted). Somehow, now - Biden is a perfectly credible source. Amusing, to say the least.

 

I think Biden's main thrust is less about global support, and more about 'the day after' issue. The White House would like to see some progress on that front post-war, while Netanyahu and his right-wing allies broadcast a different tune. On this issue, what Biden said is diplomatically off the charts as far as relations between the countries go. But this is not so much against Israel, rather directed specifically at Netanyahu's coalition partners.

 

[Neeranam]

Even the Israeli’s main supporter admits there is indiscriminate bombing, yet a few members here refuse to acknowledge this fact. 

Biden saying this says a lot about the war crimes Israel are committing. 

[stevenl]

"

They dynamics are well known, and expected."
You're like a windvane here. When I commented on this a few weeks ago you were denying, and now suddenly it was to be expected? Only a fool did not see this coming.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

"

They dynamics are well known, and expected."
You're like a windvane here. When I commented on this a few weeks ago you were denying, and now suddenly it was to be expected? Only a fool did not see this coming.

 

That is not true. I have posted on how these things 'work' since the start.

What you may be referring to are comments made in reply to earlier claims that the support 'phase' was over.

This war has been going on for two months now, and claims Israel is losing support, or about to lose support were aired since the start.

My point then was that this will follow it's course, but slower than compared to past time (due to the nature of the Hamas attack, the hostage issue and Hamas response) - and I was right.

[Nick Carter icp]

Is the headline quite biased from the BBC ?

They could have used the angle of "The USA fully supports Israel"

"Biden says most of the World supports Israel"

But the BBC choose a negative (to Israel) angle of the story 

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

"

They dynamics are well known, and expected."
You're like a windvane here. When I commented on this a few weeks ago you were denying, and now suddenly it was to be expected? Only a fool did not see this coming.

You were not the only one to make such obvious comments weeks ago, much of the media and even key players in this war did as well. However you are the first to revisit it to try and make a point.

[Neeranam]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:05 AM, CharlieH said:

"But they're starting to lose that support by indiscriminate bombing that takes place," he said.

So the US president says this. 

 

Indiscriminate bombing definition - 

This type of military tactic involves attacks that do not distinguish between military targets and civilian populations, causing widespread damage and casualties among civilians.

 

Indiscriminate bombing is generally considered a violation of international humanitarian law, which seeks to protect non-combatants and minimize harm to civilian infrastructure during armed conflicts.

 

So the US president is saying Israel are committing war crimes but still support them -  what kind of idiot is this? 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

So the US president says this. 

 

Indiscriminate bombing definition - 

This type of military tactic involves attacks that do not distinguish between military targets and civilian populations, causing widespread damage and casualties among civilians.

 

Indiscriminate bombing is generally considered a violation of international humanitarian law, which seeks to protect non-combatants and minimize harm to civilian infrastructure during armed conflicts.

 

So the US president is saying Israel are committing war crimes but still support them -  what kind of idiot is this? 

A big idiot that thinks people will believe lies if told by a POTUS.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A big idiot that thinks people will believe lies if told by a POTUS.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

And this coming from a Trump supporter.....

 

[Neeranam]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:46 AM, Morch said:

 

That is not true. I have posted on how these things 'work' since the start.

What you may be referring to are comments made in reply to earlier claims that the support 'phase' was over.

This war has been going on for two months now, and claims Israel is losing support, or about to lose support were aired since the start.

My point then was that this will follow it's course, but slower than compared to past time (due to the nature of the Hamas attack, the hostage issue and Hamas response) - and I was right.

Do you think Israel's indiscriminate bombing is a war crime? 

Do you think Biden saying that, as the one who is supplying all the weapons and cash, could be understating the facts? 

[Morch]

I think the issue of 'war crimes' and posters tossing it about like they knew what they were talking about has been discussed plenty of times.

I also think it's amusing people who berate, denigrate and ridicule Biden on every opportunity, suddenly take his words very seriously.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

I do think that Biden is just playing Politics and sitting on the fence .

He is giving full support to Israel and also criticising Israel and making false accusations about incriminate bombings .

   That way , both the Pro Israel and Pro Hamas supporters will both still support and vote for Biden in the next election 

[spidermike007]

And it should be the case, the degree to which Israel is engaging in genocide against the women and children of Gaza is completely out of proportion to anything that was necessary, or required. It appears that they simply want to cleanse the Gaza of Palestinians entirely and claim all the territory for it. The callousness and hatred being shown is intolerable. Isreal is losing credibility all over the world, and they deserve that. 

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And it should be the case, the degree to which Israel is engaging in genocide against the women and children of Gaza is completely out of proportion to anything that was necessary, or required. It appears that they simply want to cleanse the Gaza of Palestinians entirely and claim all the territory for it. The callousness and hatred being shown is intolerable. Isreal is losing credibility all over the world, and they deserve that. 

 

   Hamas need to be wiped out , the people who committed war crimes , ethic cleansing , apartheid, racism , Nazi like actions on October 7 th need to be killed , so they don't do it again .

   It is rather unpleasant now, but the World will be a better place when its all over and Hamas no longer exist 

[placnx]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:29 PM, Morch said:

I think the issue of 'war crimes' and posters tossing it about like they knew what they were talking about has been discussed plenty of times.

I also think it's amusing people who berate, denigrate and ridicule Biden on every opportunity, suddenly take his words very seriously.

 

Biden is complicit in war crimes by supplying weapons for the indiscriminate bombing, but that's the least of his problems. He is alienating the young people and Arab Americans in key states whom he needs to be reelected. That suits Netanyahu fine, since then he can get Trump back in little over a year's time, so prolonging the war is in Netanyahu's interest. Biden fell into a trap.

 

The poster you cite was editing Biden's comment to be more truthful, in that Israel has already lost the world's sympathy for 10/7, with 3/4 of UNGA voting for ceasefire this past week. The poster was not taking Biden's comment at face value.

[placnx]

35 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I do think that Biden is just playing Politics and sitting on the fence .

He is giving full support to Israel and also criticising Israel and making false accusations about incriminate bombings .

   That way , both the Pro Israel and Pro Hamas supporters will both still support and vote for Biden in the next election 

Hard core pro-Israel Christians are Trump supporters. Pro-Hamas are a negligible number in the US. Biden is definitely not pandering to them, since he is still supporting the campaign to eliminate.

[placnx]

25 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hamas need to be wiped out , the people who committed war crimes , ethic cleansing , apartheid, racism , Nazi like actions on October 7 th need to be killed , so they don't do it again .

   It is rather unpleasant now, but the World will be a better place when its all over and Hamas no longer exist 

This sounds like a Putin screed. The only apartheid in question is that practiced by successive Israeli governments on Palestinians.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

This sounds like a Putin screed. The only apartheid in question is that practiced by successive Israeli governments on Palestinians.

 

  We've had that discussion numerous times reverently in various threads , you should have joined in with the discussion then .

   I cannot be bothered to go through it all again, someone else may come along though and go through it all over again 

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, placnx said:

Hard core pro-Israel Christians are Trump supporters. Pro-Hamas are a negligible number in the US. Biden is definitely not pandering to them, since he is still supporting the campaign to eliminate.

 

   I did mean that Biden was sitting on the fence and giving both sides enough support, that both sides (Israel and Palestine sided USA democrat voters )will continue to support and vote for him .

   Of course Trump supporters aren't going to vote for him , I did mean voters from the Democrat side 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hamas need to be wiped out , the people who committed war crimes , ethic cleansing , apartheid, racism , Nazi like actions on October 7 th need to be killed , so they don't do it again .

   It is rather unpleasant now, but the World will be a better place when its all over and Hamas no longer exist 

Do you really think that the Hamas top dogs are right in the middle of Gaza right now? I'll bet you they're in Lebanon or Syria or Saudi Arabia or New York City. So who does that leave, that leaves women and children being slaughtered on a daily basis. Is that morally correct, morally bankrupt or is that genocidal? 

[ozimoron]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:57 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Is the headline quite biased from the BBC ?

They could have used the angle of "The USA fully supports Israel"

"Biden says most of the World supports Israel"

But the BBC choose a negative (to Israel) angle of the story 

 

They could have used that but it wouldn't be true. While the US did veto the ceasefire resolution, Biden did call for one previously. Moreover, Biden has said that there has to be a 2 state solution and that's a position currently at odds with Israel.

[ThaiFelix]

Can he remember his own name now?  

[alien365]

The UK and Germany both abstained. I believe they did so to avoid riots in their own countries. They are running scared of the immigrants they let in while burying their heads in the sand to any sensible criticism. 

[coolcarer]

45 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

They could have used that but it wouldn't be true. While the US did veto the ceasefire resolution, Biden did call for one previously. Moreover, Biden has said that there has to be a 2 state solution and that's a position currently at odds with Israel.

When did Biden call for a UN ceasefire resolution before? The previous pause was broken by Hamas with Biden making clear it was their fault.

[tanner]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:57 AM, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

This was commented on almost at the start of these topics.

 

They dynamics are well known, and expected.

What is out of the ordinary is how long the support phase lasted, and how muted the lack of support was/is (I'll get to Biden's words, don't worry).

 

To put things in perspective, this is a non-binding resolution, meaning it is of declarative value. As such countries are way more likely to vote for, because it doesn't mean a whole lot. Not the first or the last of these. Also, note that 23 other counties abstained or did not vote (among them such lightweights such as the UK, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands).

 

Just another day on the UN.

 

As for Biden words - one got to appreciate the dilemma you're faced with. On the one hand, topic after topic, you denigrate and ridicule the man as having no clue what he's talking about. Now he comes out and say something you like, can't really have a decent go at him. I do remember, however, that near the start of this war you were all over the place about Biden's comments regarding the atrocities (that thing with the pictures he claimed to have been shown and than retracted). Somehow, now - Biden is a perfectly credible source. Amusing, to say the least.

 

I think Biden's main thrust is less about global support, and more about 'the day after' issue. The White House would like to see some progress on that front post-war, while Netanyahu and his right-wing allies broadcast a different tune. On this issue, what Biden said is diplomatically off the charts as far as relations between the countries go. But this is not so much against Israel, rather directed specifically at Netanyahu's coalition partners.

 

No matter how much you ramble on you still support Netanyahus campaign of genocide, yes ?.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, coolcarer said:

When did Biden call for a UN ceasefire resolution before? The previous pause was broken by Hamas with Biden making clear it was their fault.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67294334

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, tanner said:

No matter how much you ramble on you still support Netanyahus campaign of genocide, yes ?.

 

The answer will be yes but they will deny that its genocide.

[Hanuman2547]

Biden is still approving money to be allocated to Israel for the purchase of weapons and munitions.  That in itself makes Biden guilty of war crimes when he knows that Israel will use them to kill and maim anyone in Gaza as well as the West Bank.