The Children of Gaza = More than 7000 Killed.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

America wasn't fighting for their survival.  Israel is.  This is why Israel is determined to destroy Hamas. 

A/ If israel is actually able to be destroyed by a few fighters armed with rifles and RPGs, Israel doesn't have a hope of survival anyway. Who has all the tanks, who has all the artillery, who has the airforce, who has the huge trained reserve, who has the gunboats, who has the guided missiles and the air defenses, who has the absolute support of the most powerful country in the world? If you don't know, it's not Palestine.

 

B/ it's not possible to destroy Hamas unless you kill every man woman and child in Palestine and all those Palestinians outside Palestine as well.

By now there is probably within the beating heart of every Palestinian an unquenchable desire for revenge against israel, and that will be passed down generation to generation. Kill every Hamas fighter and they will be replaced. The name may change, but the desire will be the same- revenge on israel. The whirlwind is coming.

 

Some things are unforgivable and will never be forgotten.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Watching Sky News and it is appalling that IDF can kill 3 unarmed people in civilian clothes. They are obviously firing at anyone they see, with no reason.

The chances of this being in crossfire are impossible.

This is what ethnic cleansing is. Even Sleepy Joe Biden says the Israelis are bombing indiscrimently, which is incredible itself. He must know for sure there are war cries before publicly stating the country they are sponsoring are doing this.

The death toll continues...Israel will be paying for this for many decades in the future...

It's just as well it was the israelis that killed them. If the Palestinians had killed 3 unarmed israelis under a white flag they would likely have destroyed half of the remaining undestroyed Gaza by now.

Apparently it's only OK to kill unarmed civilians if it's israelis doing it.

 

I wonder how the israeli apologists are going to cover for soldiers that deliberately killed 3 unarmed men under a white flag. Expect more but but but stories anytime soon.

[Hawaiian]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A/ If israel is actually able to be destroyed by a few fighters armed with rifles and RPGs, Israel doesn't have a hope of survival anyway. Who has all the tanks, who has all the artillery, who has the airforce, who has the huge trained reserve, who has the gunboats, who has the guided missiles and the air defenses, who has the absolute support of the most powerful country in the world? If you don't know, it's not Palestine.

 

B/ it's not possible to destroy Hamas unless you kill every man woman and child in Palestine and all those Palestinians outside Palestine as well.

By now there is probably within the beating heart of every Palestinian an unquenchable desire for revenge against israel, and that will be passed down generation to generation. Kill every Hamas fighter and they will be replaced. The name may change, but the desire will be the same- revenge on israel. The whirlwind is coming.

 

Some things are unforgivable and will never be forgotten.

What a bunch of double talk.  It's no secret Israel is well equipped as you state.  To throw all of that at Hamas would result in complete annihilation of everyone and everything in Gaza including all the women and children many are screaming about, including you.  Already there are accusations of genocide.

No, it is not necessary to kill every Palestinian in the world to destroy Hamas.  That's not hyperbole, more like complete BS.

Seems like you never read my post about Hamas losing support from Gazans.

When the Allies defeated Japan in WWII, the Japanese population had great fears of retribution from the occupying forces.

To their surprise, what was left of the Imperial Army leaders were tried and convicted as war criminals.  The emperor was allowed to remain on his throne, albeit, stripped of his power.  General Douglas MacArthur gave strict orders to the troops that the Japanese were to be treated respectfully with harsh punishment

for any offenders.  The U.S. even imported food to supplement the meager food supply.

Seven years later, the occupation formerly ended.  Japan was now a democratic, demilitarized state on its way to become an economic power and a staunch ally of the U.S.

Given the chance there is hope for the Palestinians.  But first, they need to denounce Hamas and work with Israel and her allies in order to move forward. 

The hate you mention may remain in one form or another, but cannot be enacted if the Palestinians want to move forward.  Only people with your negative mentality will stop any meaningful progress.

 

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's just as well it was the israelis that killed them. If the Palestinians had killed 3 unarmed israelis under a white flag they would likely have destroyed half of the remaining undestroyed Gaza by now.

Apparently it's only OK to kill unarmed civilians if it's israelis doing it.

 

I wonder how the israeli apologists are going to cover for soldiers that deliberately killed 3 unarmed men under a white flag. Expect more but but but stories anytime soon.

What happened to the three shot hostages is similar to friendly fire.  Tragically, it happens.  Avoidable?  Maybe.  Depends on the circumstances.  My neighbor, a Vietnam veteran, told me how he was fired upon when his chopper went down.  He was caught in the crossfire when air rescuers came to his rescue.  Fortunately he was not hit and lived to tell me about it. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

What happened to the three shot hostages is similar to friendly fire.  Tragically, it happens.  Avoidable?  Maybe.  Depends on the circumstances.  My neighbor, a Vietnam veteran, told me how he was fired upon when his chopper went down.  He was caught in the crossfire when air rescuers came to his rescue.  Fortunately he was not hit and lived to tell me about it. 

As I pointed out to another poster, a trained soldier shoots only what he aims at. If they shot unarmed men under a white flag it was deliberate, because they thought they were Palestinians, IMO.

It will never be admitted, but if they were Palestinian men, there would be none of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about it. Probably be cheering the shooter.

[Hawaiian]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Watching Sky News and it is appalling that IDF can kill 3 unarmed people in civilian clothes. They are obviously firing at anyone they see, with no reason.

The chances of this being in crossfire are impossible.

This is what ethnic cleansing is. Even Sleepy Joe Biden says the Israelis are bombing indiscrimently, which is incredible itself. He must know for sure there are war cries before publicly stating the country they are sponsoring are doing this.

The death toll continues...Israel will be paying for this for many decades in the future...

You talk like you are a seasoned combat veteran who has experienced the horrors of war.  Training and actually being involved in combat is not the same thing.  While training may prepare you not to let fear and apprehension take over it happens, even to the bravest.

Just saw Thaibeachlover's post about the deliberate shooting of hostages. This applies to him, too.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

You talk like you are a seasoned combat veteran who has experienced the horrors of war.  Training and actually being involved in combat is not the same thing.  While training may prepare you not to let fear and apprehension take over it happens, even to the bravest.

 

Those trained soldiers must have been shaking at the knees as they saw 3 unarmed and shirtless hostages waving a white flag.

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

What a bunch of double talk.  It's no secret Israel is well equipped as you state.  To throw all of that at Hamas would result in complete annihilation of everyone and everything in Gaza including all the women and children many are screaming about, including you.  Already there are accusations of genocide.

No, it is not necessary to kill every Palestinian in the world to destroy Hamas.  That's not hyperbole, more like complete BS.

Seems like you never read my post about Hamas losing support from Gazans.

When the Allies defeated Japan in WWII, the Japanese population had great fears of retribution from the occupying forces.

To their surprise, what was left of the Imperial Army leaders were tried and convicted as war criminals.  The emperor was allowed to remain on his throne, albeit, stripped of his power.  General Douglas MacArthur gave strict orders to the troops that the Japanese were to be treated respectfully with harsh punishment

for any offenders.  The U.S. even imported food to supplement the meager food supply.

Seven years later, the occupation formerly ended.  Japan was now a democratic, demilitarized state on its way to become an economic power and a staunch ally of the U.S.

Given the chance there is hope for the Palestinians.  But first, they need to denounce Hamas and work with Israel and her allies in order to move forward. 

The hate you mention may remain in one form or another, but cannot be enacted if the Palestinians want to move forward.  Only people with your negative mentality will stop any meaningful progress.

 

Tis you with the double talk. I thought you were better than that.

 

When the allies went into Japan you are right, they didn't massacre the population, UNLIKE what is happening in Gaza where they are massacring the civilian population, including over 7,000 children. Had the allies gone into Japan and blown up thousands of children, would the Japanese be of the same mind now?

 

I'm done with you for that post. Carry on without me from now on.

[Hawaiian]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Tis you with the double talk. I thought you were better than that.

 

When the allies went into Japan you are right, they didn't massacre the population, UNLIKE what is happening in Gaza where they are massacring the civilian population, including over 7,000 children. Had the allies gone into Japan and blown up thousands of children, would the Japanese be of the same mind now?

 

I'm done with you for that post. Carry on without me from now on.

They didn't have to.  Unlike Hamas, Japan surrendered.  It's in your world history book.

 

[Hawaiian]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Those trained soldiers must have been shaking at the knees as they saw 3 unarmed and shirtless hostages waving a white flag.

I see the Ozzie has joined forces with the Kiwi, has who run out of steam, to take on the Hawaiian.  Yep, the Kiwi has boxed himself into a corner.

Can you furnish a video?

[Nick Carter icp]

11 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

I see the Ozzie has joined forces with the Kiwi, has who run out of steam, to take on the Hawaiian.  Yep, the Kiwi has boxed himself into a corner.

Can you furnish a video?

 

   An Australian and a New Zealander and a Scot , all living on other peoples land .

All living on Aboriginal, Maori and Thai land , all very critical of Israelis living in Israel, which they claim is Palestinian land .

   Wonder when they will be leaving other peoples land ?

Shouting at the Israelis , whilst forgetting whose land that they live on .

Could be something subconscious ?

[ezzra]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A/ If israel is actually able to be destroyed by a few fighters armed with rifles and RPGs, Israel doesn't have a hope of survival anyway. Who has all the tanks, who has all the artillery, who has the airforce, who has the huge trained reserve, who has the gunboats, who has the guided missiles and the air defenses, who has the absolute support of the most powerful country in the world? If you don't know, it's not Palestine.

 

B/ it's not possible to destroy Hamas unless you kill every man woman and child in Palestine and all those Palestinians outside Palestine as well.

By now there is probably within the beating heart of every Palestinian an unquenchable desire for revenge against israel, and that will be passed down generation to generation. Kill every Hamas fighter and they will be replaced. The name may change, but the desire will be the same- revenge on israel. The whirlwind is coming.

 

Some things are unforgivable and will never be forgotten.

Hey,

For thousands of years, Israel and the Jews were fighting for their survival since ancient times where countless armies, countries, kings, rulers and religion crusaders have tried in myriads of ways to destroy the Jews where ever they were, but here they still standing, just as all the above came and gone and failed, so will the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims and all the others who wish to see Israel gone, if tens of thousand will  continue to die, than so be it,

10 or so years ago, Bashar al-Assad of Syria has killed well over half a million of his people and the world stood silenced,

but the the Jews are protecting their homeland the whole world stands on its hind legs...

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Hey,

For thousands of years, Israel and the Jews were fighting for their survival since ancient times where countless armies, countries, kings, rulers and religion crusaders have tried in myriads of ways to destroy the Jews where ever they were, but here they still standing, just as all the above came and gone and failed, so will the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims and all the others who wish to see Israel gone, if tens of thousand will  continue to die, than so be it,

10 or so years ago, Bashar al-Assad of Syria has killed well over half a million of his people and the world stood silenced,

but the the Jews are protecting their homeland the whole world stands on its hind legs...

Exactly.

All this global noise because there are Jews involved.

That actually proves the validity of the origin of the ideology of political Zionism.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

The sooner the haters fully accept that the sooner there is any hope for a better future for so called Palestinians.

 

[Hawaiian]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

All this global noise because there are Jews involved.

That actually proves the validity of the origin of the ideology of political Zionism.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

The sooner the haters fully accept that the sooner there is any hope for a better future for so called Palestinians.

 

They will not openly admit it, but the Saudis know this and are not about to waste any time and money messing with Israel.  Both Egypt and Jordan have realized this for awhile because they have had to deal with Hamas in the past and don't want anything to do with them and the trouble they caused.

[ozimoron]

31 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

They will not openly admit it, but the Saudis know this and are not about to waste any time and money messing with Israel.  Both Egypt and Jordan have realized this for awhile because they have had to deal with Hamas in the past and don't want anything to do with them and the trouble they caused.

 

They remain dependent on the United States for security—the same country that is helping to facilitate the withering assault on the Gaza Strip by Israel—itself a country with which just a few weeks ago the crown prince seemed willing to come to terms, without the promise of Palestinian statehood.

 

Yet the crown prince has evidently concluded that it is better not to be exposed in this way. From his perspective, issuing statements, criticizing the international community, calling his counterparts, and hanging out with soccer stars is a better strategy. Perhaps it is. But it also reveals Saudi Arabia for what it currently is—weak.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/26/saudi-arabia-mbs-israel-hamas-war-strategy-policy-diplomacy/

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts removed

Please see our Community Standards

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

Hey,

For thousands of years, Israel and the Jews were fighting for their survival since ancient times where countless armies, countries, kings, rulers and religion crusaders have tried in myriads of ways to destroy the Jews where ever they were, but here they still standing, just as all the above came and gone and failed, so will the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims and all the others who wish to see Israel gone, if tens of thousand will  continue to die, than so be it,

10 or so years ago, Bashar al-Assad of Syria has killed well over half a million of his people and the world stood silenced,

but the the Jews are protecting their homeland the whole world stands on its hind legs...

You don't reply to the point I made that if israel can be defeated by a few fighters with rifles and rpgs, it's not going to survive anyway.

Killing thousands of Palestinians to kill a few Hamas isn't going down well with much of the world, for obvious reasons.

It was the Palestinian's homeland before Euro people half the world away took it and gave it to someone else. You wouldn't be happy if someone came and threw you out of your house to give it to someone else, or would you go willingly?

 

The other point I made was that the hatred being built up now isn't going to go away and israelis will be living in fear for a very long time, maybe hundreds of years. Is that what they really want?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't reply to the point I made that if israel can be defeated by a few fighters with rifles and rpgs, it's not going to survive anyway.

Killing thousands of Palestinians to kill a few Hamas isn't going down well with much of the world, for obvious reasons.

It was the Palestinian's homeland before Euro people half the world away took it and gave it to someone else. You wouldn't be happy if someone came and threw you out of your house to give it to someone else, or would you go willingly?

 

The other point I made was that the hatred being built up now isn't going to go away and israelis will be living in fear for a very long time, maybe hundreds of years. Is that what they really want?

It was part of the British Mandate and before that the Turkish Ottomam empire. There was a Jewish kingdom there in ancient times. There never has been a Palestinian nation state. Jewish people are indiginous to Israel. Arabs/Muslims are the Mo' come lately colonialists in the region. 

If you're talking about the UN partition the Arabs (they weren't called Palestinians back then) had a large chunk of land. But they attacked instead.

Starting wars when you lose has consequences mate.

[Hawaiian]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't reply to the point I made that if israel can be defeated by a few fighters with rifles and rpgs, it's not going to survive anyway.

Killing thousands of Palestinians to kill a few Hamas isn't going down well with much of the world, for obvious reasons.

It was the Palestinian's homeland before Euro people half the world away took it and gave it to someone else. You wouldn't be happy if someone came and threw you out of your house to give it to someone else, or would you go willingly?

 

The other point I made was that the hatred being built up now isn't going to go away and israelis will be living in fear for a very long time, maybe hundreds of years. Is that what they really want?

You mean just like how the former western enemies of the Germans, Italians and Japanese fear them today?

[ozimoron]

36 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

You mean just like how the former western enemies of the Germans, Italians and Japanese fear them today?

 

It took at least 50 years for them to get over it.

[Hawaiian]

25 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It took at least 50 years for them to get over it.

Fifty years?  Really?  In 1951, the U.S. and Japan signed a Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security which was amended 9 years later.

Italy was one of the founding members of NATO in 1949.  West Germany joined in 1955 right after the allied occupation ended.

So much for your hundred year comment.

Perhaps you and your friend from New Zealand should take remedial classes in world history.  You two may learn something.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

Fifty years?  Really?  In 1951, the U.S. and Japan signed a Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security which was amended 9 years later.

Italy was one of the founding members of NATO in 1949.  West Germany joined in 1955 right after the allied occupation ended.

So much for your hundred year comment.

Perhaps you and your friend from New Zealand should take remedial classes in world history.  You two may learn something.

 

I'm talking about the general population's attitude to these former enemies. I believe you were as well.

 

[Hawaiian]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'm talking about the general population's attitude to these former enemies. I believe you were as well.

 

Say what you mean and mean what you say. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hawaiian said:

Say what you mean and mean what you say. 

 

I did, I said and I meant that the general populations of German and Japanese enemies during ww2 took 50 years to get over. Years that I was mostly alive and can recall personally.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

I did, I said and I meant that the general populations of German and Japanese enemies during ww2 took 50 years to get over. Years that I was mostly alive and can recall personally.

So can I.  My first time in Japan was 1958 in the U.S. Navy.  Never recalled outright animosity for Americans. I returned in 1965 as a civilian and lived there for several months.  Returned again in 1972. At that time the Japanese were upset with Nixon for his removal of the gold standard.  The "Nixon Shock" was responsible for a decline in the yen from 360 to around 270 to the dollar.  Other than that my experience was mostly positive as I traveled from Hokkaido to Kyushu.

My brother served most of his army time in Germany.  This was in the mid 50's.  He married a German girl and went to work for an American electronics giant in Frankfort as a salesman to German businesses.  Other than visits back home along with his family he lived there till his death.  My friendship with my sister-in-law and my two nieces was excellent.  After my brother's death we continued to stay in touch.  I never visited Germany so my personal experiences are limited.

As far as Italy goes, no personal experiences.  In all my years of travel I have made many friends and never had any hassles with anyone.  Don't know about you.  Negative attitudes usually bring negative results.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

So can I.  My first time in Japan was 1958 in the U.S. Navy.  Never recalled outright animosity for Americans. I returned in 1965 as a civilian and lived there for several months.  Returned again in 1972. At that time the Japanese were upset with Nixon for his removal of the gold standard.  The "Nixon Shock" was responsible for a decline in the yen from 360 to around 270 to the dollar.  Other than that my experience was mostly positive as I traveled from Hokkaido to Kyushu.

My brother served most of his army time in Germany.  This was in the mid 50's.  He married a German girl and went to work for an American electronics giant in Frankfort as a salesman to German businesses.  Other than visits back home along with his family he lived there till his death.  My friendship with my sister-in-law and my two nieces was excellent.  After my brother's death we continued to stay in touch.  I never visited Germany so my personal experiences are limited.

As far as Italy goes, no personal experiences.  In all my years of travel I have made many friends and never had any hassles with anyone.  Don't know about you.  Negative attitudes get negative results.

 

I personally bear no resentment but I'm saying that many people in Australia, at least, held significant resentment to Japanese and Germans and, as I previously said, comic books demonizing Germans and Japanese were common until the mid 60's at least. People like Bruce Ruxton, the head of the then powerful RSL was especially vehement. Most of those people have all died off by now.

[Hawaiian]

31 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I personally bear no resentment but I'm saying that many people in Australia, at least, held significant resentment to Japanese and Germans and, as I previously said, comic books demonizing Germans and Japanese were common until the mid 60's at least. People like Bruce Ruxton, the head of the then powerful RSL was especially vehement. Most of those people have all died off by now.

There are some on both sides that will never get over it.  My brother's father-in-law belonged to the Nazi party.  I have no idea how active he was.  However, this never seemed to be an issue with my brother and his German family. 

Perhaps my growing up in Hawaii with a large Japanese population made me more aware of Japanese culture and appreciative of Japanese cuisine.  While there, I ate everything put in front of me.

I recall one old Japanese lady regularly sneaking me in to the back of her restaurant and personally serving me.  Her establishment did not have a grade A sign.  This was a system imposed by the U.S. military, which I mostly ignored.  I miss those days.

As far as the Aussies go, I understand the resentment.  Not very many people are aware of the Japanese bombing of Darwin and other Australian towns.  Also the treatment of POW's by the Japanese Imperial Army was most barbaric. 

[ezzra]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't reply to the point I made that if israel can be defeated by a few fighters with rifles and rpgs, it's not going to survive anyway.

Killing thousands of Palestinians to kill a few Hamas isn't going down well with much of the world, for obvious reasons.

It was the Palestinian's homeland before Euro people half the world away took it and gave it to someone else. You wouldn't be happy if someone came and threw you out of your house to give it to someone else, or would you go willingly?

 

The other point I made was that the hatred being built up now isn't going to go away and israelis will be living in fear for a very long time, maybe hundreds of years. Is that what they really want?

When you aid and abide, harbour by allowing your schools, mosques, hospitals and homes to become a potential Hamas hiding places and battlefield, employed by the Hamas (50,000 Palestinians) digging tunnels to be used in guerrilla war, when you rejoice and dance, give away sweets in the streets of Gaza seeing dead, butchered and kidnapped Israelis, you're no better than the terrorists, you become the enemy and thus a fair target, and maybe if enough of the Palestinians babies will die the penny finally will drop...

[Hawaiian]

22 minutes ago, ezzra said:

When you aid and abide, harbour, allowing your your schools, mosques, hospitals and homes to become a potential Hamas hiding places and battlefield, working for the Hamas digging tunnels to be used in guerrilla war, when you rejoice and dance in the streets seeing dead, butchered and kidnapped Israelis, you're no better than the terrorists, you become the enemy and thus a fair target, and maybe if enough of the Palestinians babies will die the penny finally will drip...

There are others that feel the same way, but are afraid to express their sentiments because it's politically incorrect and they will be targets of ridicule. 

Basically I agree with you, except my sympathy goes to those Palestinians who wanted nothing to do with Hamas but were forced to cooperate.

In WWII, the Japanese population thought it be disloyal to the emperor were they to even think of surrendering to the Allies. The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki changed many minds. Of course, the rest is history.  

What happens next in the Israeli/Hamas conflict will also become part of history.  Right now what will be written will be anyone's guess.

[ezzra]

16 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Basically I agree with you, except my sympathy goes to those Palestinians who wanted nothing to do with Hamas but were forced to cooperate.

Unfortunately, there aren't many of them as on the 7th of October, many of the looters, rapists and murderers were ordinary Palestinians folks who joined the terrorist in their deeds, and what future do you wanna build for you and your future if you don't stand up and be counted and let them here you objection, and if enough of them will do that, all those terrorists will be gone...