Two New Zealand Men Arrested in Phuket for Alleged Brutal Assault on Traffic Cop

[alien365]

11 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Any tourist, wishing to return after a first visit to Thailand needs to get his head examined. Thailand 2024 has very little in common with Thailand 2009 and nothing with Thailand 1980.

 

So many greater and welcoming places to visit. Even Malaysia has a lot more attraction.

Each to their own I guess. I live here, but I have no intention to go back to Phuket. My most recent trips to Chiang Mai was also disappointing and Mahasarakham quite dreary. I would recommend other areas though like Sam Roi Yot, Bang Saphan, Nan, Kanchanaburi, and Kalasin, to name a few if tourists want something nice and a bit more peaceful.

[John Drake]

58 minutes ago, george said:

They state that their sons, while spirited, have never been in trouble with the law before.

 

"Spirited" Seems a euphemism for unhinged hotheads.

[ryandb]

4 minutes ago, Dolf said:

There issue isnt with people online. It is assaulting a police officer doing their duty. This is not a joke. 

 

Again for about the 50th time it depends what they were doing, was it their "duty' or were they infringing on rights, were they threatening to shoot the NZers, did they overstep the mark?

 

Again just being in a police uniform doesn't automatically give you the right to do anything to anyone

[Dolf]

6 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

Yeah and they took his gun from a buttoned down holster. Obviously the little sh*t had pulled the gun on them properly for a money shake down. We all know who should be facing the Monkey House 

The 2 Kiwi scumbags. 

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, ryandb said:

 

Again for about the 50th time it depends what they were doing, was it their "duty' or were they infringing on rights, were they threatening to shoot the NZers, did they overstep the mark?

 

Again just being in a police uniform doesn't automatically give you the right to do anything to anyone

Trying to stop 2 unlicensed guys from breaking the traffic rules. They responded by assaulting him doing his job.

 

Give them 3 years jail then deport the scumbags.

[Dolf]

6 minutes ago, alien365 said:

Each to their own I guess. I live here, but I have no intention to go back to Phuket. My most recent trips to Chiang Mai was also disappointing and Mahasarakham quite dreary. I would recommend other areas though like Sam Roi Yot, Bang Saphan, Nan, Kanchanaburi, and Kalasin, to name a few if tourists want something nice and a bit more peaceful.

Kalasin ahead of CM? Got to be joking.

[ryandb]

Just now, Dolf said:

Trying to stop 2 unlicensed guys from breaking the traffic rules. They responded by assaulting him doing his job.

 

Give them 3 years jail then deport the scumbags.

 

The traffic offenses are not proven, and again you are just assuming that they just took the cop down and took his gun (which he had in his hand) without the cop doing anything to elicit the reaction.

[Scouse123]

I don't know what's happened, but I wouldn't fancy being in their shoes right now.

 

I don't think they should be looking at retiring over here anytime in the future.

 

Seems a hell of a reaction though just for a traffic stop.

[Dolf]

4 minutes ago, ryandb said:

 

The traffic offenses are not proven, and again you are just assuming that they just took the cop down and took his gun (which he had in his hand) without the cop doing anything to elicit the reaction.

So you say cops go around assaulting tourists for no reason? What are you smoking?

[zakalwe]

5 hours ago, ryandb said:

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

False misquote per Wikipedia. Also this case is from 1893, lol.

Internet meme[edit]

Plummer v. State, along with Bad Elk v. United States,^[14] is cited in Internet blogs and discussion groups but often misquoted.^[15] The misquote is that "citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary" although the Plummer quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the Plummer opinion.^[16] Several other sources note that Bad Elk is no longer good law,^[17] what one legal commenter stated was a "bizarre, irrational or merely grossly wrong understanding of law...."^[18]

Modern sources describe Plummer and Bad Elk as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.^[19]

[alien365]

Just now, Dolf said:

Kalasin ahead of CM? Got to be joking.

CM just stank of weed and I saw more tourists there than locals (I know I didn't, but that's how it felt).  I've been to CM quite a few times over the last decade and agree with Ben Zioner on the changes. I feel like I get to experience more Thai culture in Kalasin and the people have always been very friendly to me there.

[Walker88]

50 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

It is stupid beyond belief to use violence against the police in any country, whatever the circumstances. This is bad for the reputation of all Westerners in Thailand. 

While your statement is largely true, and is true for people who know Thailand very well, it is not true everywhere. You did say 'in any country'.

 

Have you ever been to Dagestan? Syria? Afghanistan? There are times when an unwillingness to use violence or escape and evade would result in your death. Sometimes a shake down is a shoot down and a robbery, even by a police officer. Some parts of the world ain't pretty.

 

Perhaps these two had never been to Thailand. They didn't know how pleasant and helpful most Thai police officers are. Whatever the circumstances (we do not know everything), if a cop draws his weapon and brandishes it, many people are going to take that as a threat, especially if one is unfamiliar with the country they are in. Of course it is best to try to diffuse the situation, but fear brings out lots of responses that vary person to person. Those of us who know Thailand would behave quite differently from the start, which might include carrying a valid license and not speeding. Of course, sometimes one is stopped for a simple shakedown, as I noted happened to me in an earlier post. Best to just smile and pay the tribute.

 

No matter the actual circumstances, I suspect these two are proper effed.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, zakalwe said:

Not all guns have safeties.

I'll take your word for it, presumably some who need to carry firearms need to have them ready to fire at a moments notice, However , as most Thai cops probably never have reason to even think about drawing their weapons in anger ,  I can't see why any of them would elect to have a weapon without a safety catch.  Seems downright dangerous to me , I would have expected there to be  a list of guns approved for police use, and that a safety catch would be a key requirement.  But then again......

[Scouse123]

5 minutes ago, Dolf said:

Kalasin ahead of CM? Got to be joking.

 

 

Nothing wrong with Kalasin, how many times have you been here?

 

When was the last time?

 

Do you know where to go when you are here?

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, alien365 said:

CM just stank of weed and I saw more tourists there than locals (I know I didn't, but that's how it felt).  I've been to CM quite a few times over the last decade and agree with Ben Zioner on the changes. I feel like I get to experience more Thai culture in Kalasin and the people have always been very friendly to me there.

 

Good man,

 

Nothing wrong with Kalasin.

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Nothing wrong with Kalasin, how many times have you been here?

 

When was the last time?

 

Do you know where to go when you are here?

I have never been there. I saw Paddy Doyle go there and it looked pretty boring.

[ryandb]

4 hours ago, zakalwe said:

False misquote per Wikipedia. Also this case is from 1893, lol.

Internet meme[edit]

Plummer v. State, along with Bad Elk v. United States,^[14] is cited in Internet blogs and discussion groups but often misquoted.^[15] The misquote is that "citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary" although the Plummer quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the Plummer opinion.^[16] Several other sources note that Bad Elk is no longer good law,^[17] what one legal commenter stated was a "bizarre, irrational or merely grossly wrong understanding of law...."^[18]

Modern sources describe Plummer and Bad Elk as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.^[19]

it's on the constitution site....

 

here's another then

 

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, ryandb said:

it's on the constitution site....

 

here's another then

 

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

You might want to check the map. US laws don't apply to Thailand.

[charleskerins]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

 

"Have you never read a news article that got some things wrong?"

So we don't believe anything that has been said in the article? Or just "cherry pick" the parts that suits our agenda   we like?

 

(Maybe the other cop followed on behind - camera at the ready?)

 

Not doubting you, but I don't recall seeng a post which claims a Thai woman took the video - could you provide a link, please?

You believe a Thai policeman took the video of another officer being assaulted instead of jumping in?   

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, rexpotter said:

Something stinks

Even if 'something stinks' it is certain that people in any country are going to get big trouble if they assault police officers, whatever the circumstances.

[ryandb]

Just now, Dolf said:

You might want to check the map. US laws don't apply to Thailand.

follow the thread for this conversation, someone stated resisting an arrest is a crime everywhere, this was just a rebuttal

 

but we already know you don't like to wait to see all the evidence before you make a judgement

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, ryandb said:

follow the thread for this conversation, someone stated resisting an arrest is a crime everywhere, this was just a rebuttal

 

but we already know you don't like to wait to see all the evidence before you make a judgement

It does not matter what my opinion is nor yours. Thailand is no the place to fight cops, that's a well known fact.

 

Are you a Kiwi?

[Scouse123]

6 minutes ago, Dolf said:

I have never been there. I saw Paddy Doyle go there and it looked pretty boring.

 

 

You shouldn't form opinions based on no knowledge, should you?

 

It is as good as any place in Isaarn and nicer than a lot.

[zakalwe]

8 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I'll take your word for it, presumably some who need to carry firearms need to have them ready to fire at a moments notice, However , as most Thai cops probably never have reason to even think about drawing their weapons in anger ,  I can't see why any of them would elect to have a weapon without a safety catch.  Seems downright dangerous to me , I would have expected there to be  a list of guns approved for police use, and that a safety catch would be a key requirement.  But then again......

I did some research into Thai police official gun carry and found out that Thai cops have to buy their own guns. The Thai cops can buy whatever they prefer and can afford in Thailand. Even if the gun doesn't have a safety their holster should have a retention system. Also, cops should be exercising trigger discipline (their finger should be outside of the finger guard until ready to shoot).

[ryandb]

3 minutes ago, Dolf said:

It does not matter what my opinion is nor yours. Thailand is no the place to fight cops, that's a well known fact.

 

Are you a Kiwi?

No, I'm not. I'm a believer in people's individual rights, and being a cop does not mean you can infringe on them. I've never said it was wise to fight the cop but between 6ft under and fighting the cop, I'm going out swinging. Hopefully, you'll never find yourself cornered with one of the really bad ones.

 

[Dolf]

5 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

You shouldn't form opinions based on no knowledge, should you?

 

It is as good as any place in Isaarn and nicer than a lot.

Name 3 good things about it.

[Peabody]

I don't understand the refusal to stop, then fleeing.

Looked like 3-6 Thai cops around them at a stop, along with some other guy that a Thai cop motions to "stand over there". Was this the original stop? If so, how did they manage to jump on their bikes and flee?

[Dolf]

Just now, ryandb said:

No, I'm not. I'm a believer in people's individual rights, and being a cop does not mean you can infringe on them. I've never said it was wise to fight the cop but between 6ft under and fighting the cop, I'm going out swinging. Hopefully, you'll never find yourself cornered with one of the really bad ones.

 

From a traffic cop stop? You are joking. Ive driven thousands of kms in Thailand had no issues.

[ryandb]

Just now, Peabody said:

I don't understand the refusal to stop, then fleeing.

Looked like 3-6 Thai cops around them at a stop, along with some other guy that a Thai cop motions to "stand over there". Was this the original stop? If so, how did they manage to jump on their bikes and flee?

has the video been released then?

[zakalwe]

23 minutes ago, ryandb said:

 

The traffic offenses are not proven, and again you are just assuming that they just took the cop down and took his gun (which he had in his hand) without the cop doing anything to elicit the reaction.

Should be easy to prove driving without a license.