BUYER BEWARE - questionable medical care

[The Snark]

My complaint: general bladder area  pain. Referred to a urologist. Urologist prescribed and had the diagnostics performed of radio-opaque dye injection and a full thoracic and abdominal C.A.T. scan. The area of pain was on the outer edge of the scan results. I was not informed what procedure was going to be used in the diagnostics.

 

Suspicious, I have consulted several physicians regarding the CAT diagnostics. Their general response was mostly an unnecessary procedure that exposed me to excessive x-ray. Local x-ray would have produced the same result.

Further checking. x-ray, under 2000 baht. CAT scan, 17,000 baht.

 

My qualifications: Former EMT II, ACLS certified, Nurses Aid, Bio-medical equipment technician and certified x-ray technician.

 

FYI, unnecessary diagnostics are a major money maker and it can be very difficult to spot and avoid these pitfalls. Your only recourse is to ask about every procedure and  get a second opinion from an unrelated physician that has no possible financial gain at stake.

In my particular situation, the dye injection was a give away, a cardio procedure where they went fishing for unrelated medical conditions. But, it can be legitimately prescribed!

Edited July 19 by The Snark
Spelling correction

[Ralf001]

Demand a refund !

[brewsterbudgen]

A big problem living here.  One of the advantages of the UK's NHS is they will only do the minimum required and make you wait months for it! 🤔

[howerde]

All to common here, unnecessary tests (poor interpretation of results), the only way is to do your research on the doctors(never take a hospitals recommended doctor), i would also read up  on the condition so have some idea of tests required. My experience of Thai doctors is they do not like to  be questioned, always get someone who has at least spent time abroad

[john donson]

whatever spices up their salary or bonus, it is a company to make profits, nothing to do with healthcare

[OneMoreFarang]

When I go to my usual hospital, they always attach a small paper with my hospital number and some other details to the current procedure.

And on that paper is written "patient pay" or something similar. Because the first time when I visited that hospital, I didn't have a health insurance.

 

It seems that helps that whenever they plan or "advice" something more expensive to ask me if I agree with that.

Sometimes it seems to me obvious that what they suggest is just an unnecessary more expensive option.

Sometimes I agree, because I think it makes sense.

 

But the whole point is, they ask me. And I am pretty sure "patient pay" is a good motivation to ask me, because they actually want to get paid by me.

 

So, maybe make sure that the hospital/doctor think you pay by yourself. Then they will likely ask. And obviously you can send the bill to your insurance, if you have one. 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, john donson said:

whatever spices up their salary or bonus, it is a company to make profits, nothing to do with healthcare

 

Mostly I agree with you.

But I also know at least one rich guy, with an expensive health insurance, who wants that the doctors make every possible test they might think about. Like, if there is a 1% chance that that test might show more, than do it.

And I guess some people would blame the doctor if he would not suggest that 1% option.

It's still up to us individually what we chose. 

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, john donson said:

whatever spices up their salary or bonus, it is a company to make profits, nothing to do with healthcare

Sounds like the USA … although in all fairness, I have found the medical care I have been given here in Chiang Mai has been great. That includes the heart attack and associated TIA from a “floater clot” following the stent placement and 2 additional angioplasties in 2015.

[The Fugitive]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A big problem living here.  One of the advantages of the UK's NHS is they will only do the minimum required and make you wait months for it! 🤔

UK NHS would refuse and tell you to go home. At least, that was my most recent experience!

[CanadaSam]

I'm confused, I thought that general pain without specific cause is first attemptedd to be diagnosed by a fairly cheap ultrasound?

 

Why did they jump to the expensive cat scan etc.?

[RayWright]

7 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A big problem living here.  One of the advantages of the UK's NHS is they will only do the minimum required and make you wait months for it! 🤔

Looking at the May stats from the ONS, then 7.47m currently on the waiting list, with some waits over a year (300k+). In terms of the Government target of 18 weeks, then 3.2m are waiting beyond this threshold.

Also noted, that over the last 5 years number of Doctors have increased by 26% and Nurses by 24%. Further reading, since 2010 there has been a 47% increase in the NHS staff. Yet waiting lists keep going up. In reality a 9.8% increase in population since 2010, yet health wise a 87% increase on NHS resources.

 

The current lot in the Gas Works reckon they will reduce the 3.2m 18 weeks plus wait time within their first term in office. Yer, right.

 

Despite what D-Ream said in 1994, Things wont get better.

 

[Thingamabob]

Going back to 1962, now 83 years old, I have never had any issues with the quality or cost of healthcare in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

Actually the first approach for something like this would be a urinalysis, possibly a urine culture, and a manual physical exam of the lower abdomen.

 

If the results of these suggested need for a scan, a simple ultrasound would often suffice.

 

Jumping straight to CT -- if that is what happened -- is questionable indeed.

[Robert Paulson]

Yes. They are complete crooks and criminals. I seriosuly could not believe the amount of times I had x rays done with my last injury. I called the first hospital to send me over my X-ray. Of course they never got back to me. It’s all complete and utter bs to just get you to do money making procedures treadmill style. Rest assured you’ll get another appt after the doctor sees you and doesn’t answer any of your questions.

 

I fully agree with op you need to be your own self advocate in hospitals, which is quite a ridiculous position to be in, but it’s a must because all these see is $$ they could not care less about actually fixing you

[couchpotato]

13 hours ago, The Snark said:

My complaint: general bladder area  pain. Referred to a urologist. Urologist prescribed and had the diagnostics performed of radio-opaque dye injection and a full thoracic and abdominal C.A.T. scan. The area of pain was on the outer edge of the scan results. I was not informed what procedure was going to be used in the diagnostics.

 

Suspicious, I have consulted several physicians regarding the CAT diagnostics. Their general response was mostly an unnecessary procedure that exposed me to excessive x-ray. Local x-ray would have produced the same result.

Further checking. x-ray, under 2000 baht. CAT scan, 17,000 baht.

 

My qualifications: Former EMT II, ACLS certified, Nurses Aid, Bio-medical equipment technician and certified x-ray technician.

 

FYI, unnecessary diagnostics are a major money maker and it can be very difficult to spot and avoid these pitfalls. Your only recourse is to ask about every procedure and  get a second opinion from an unrelated physician that has no possible financial gain at stake.

In my particular situation, the dye injection was a give away, a cardio procedure where they went fishing for unrelated medical conditions. But, it can be legitimately prescribed!

Two questions come to mind.

1) Where was this procedure carried out.. You don't specify country or hospital.

2) You obviously should have known better if you are a qualified/certified x-ray technician/EMT etc, so why did you let them do the tests without querying it.

[cardinalblue]

Sounds like an unnecessary test which rests the primary care doctor to inform...The patient needs to be informed what is the test, the purpose of it, why necessary and the pricing ahead of time...

 

This is an example of bad medicine and unethical practice

 

I have for the most part experienced fairly good quality care here...That said, Thailand is known for a lack of checks and balances by a third party whether internally or externally....It's a huge cultural problem that exists in many industries here...Bottom line is a lack of accountability to evaluate care given 

 

  

[Patong2021]

Always easy to criticize, without understanding context. Not mentioned is if there were existing test results that the urologist reviewed, or if a physical exam  was performed, or if there were pre-existing conditions or past illnesses. Some specialists requests  tests based upon their experience, or wish to have more comprehensive tests before going further.

 

Ok, some other physicians had a different opinion. It happens. Did you provide the same narrative to them as you did with the urologist? Are these other physicians urologists too?  Not saying that  the physician may be too conservative, but there is a reason why some tests will be requested by experienced specialists. If in doubt, ask.  You are allowed to ask why a test is recommended.

[PuiPuiHarry]

On 7/19/2024 at 3:15 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

A big problem living here.  One of the advantages of the UK's NHS is they will only do the minimum required and make you wait months for it! 🤔

Correct, same in NL: waiting lists for months. At Bumrungrad I had to wait the unbelievable 45 MINUTES for a neurologist, Saturday morning 10:30. He needed a 10 min to find out, it were not the nerves in my legs, but the "roots" of them at L4-L5 in my lower back. Monday morning at a special spine docter, Tuesday again, Thursday MRI scan+ meeting at my spine core docter , and Friday evening again a MRI scan, but extended. In NL they would need a few months for that. I was operated in Belgium with the Thai scans and data.

And at World Medical the astonisching 30 min for an orthopedist and.. the amazing 1h30 min for an MRI scan. I "faited" of the price of that scan: 10.000 THB. In NL over € 1500 for sure.

[brewsterbudgen]

On 7/19/2024 at 2:56 PM, The Fugitive said:

UK NHS would refuse and tell you to go home. At least, that was my most recent experience!

Yes, officially you have to have returned to the UK to live.  But there are many accounts of checks not being made.

[jaywalker2]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:20 AM, The Snark said:

My complaint: general bladder area  pain. Referred to a urologist. Urologist prescribed and had the diagnostics performed of radio-opaque dye injection and a full thoracic and abdominal C.A.T. scan. The area of pain was on the outer edge of the scan results. I was not informed what procedure was going to be used in the diagnostics.

 

Suspicious, I have consulted several physicians regarding the CAT diagnostics. Their general response was mostly an unnecessary procedure that exposed me to excessive x-ray. Local x-ray would have produced the same result.

Further checking. x-ray, under 2000 baht. CAT scan, 17,000 baht.

 

My qualifications: Former EMT II, ACLS certified, Nurses Aid, Bio-medical equipment technician and certified x-ray technician.

 

FYI, unnecessary diagnostics are a major money maker and it can be very difficult to spot and avoid these pitfalls. Your only recourse is to ask about every procedure and  get a second opinion from an unrelated physician that has no possible financial gain at stake.

In my particular situation, the dye injection was a give away, a cardio procedure where they went fishing for unrelated medical conditions. But, it can be legitimately prescribed!

Unfortunately, this is becoming par for the course in Thailand. Girlfriend went to the hospital with abdominal pain and the doctor insisted she needed a CT scan. He said it didn't reveal the source of the pain but she should now get an MRI because there might be something suspicious.

 

She said no and went to another clinic. The doctor there told her he couldn't help her without a colonoscopy.

 

When she told me the story and described the symptoms, I told her she had probably been drinking too much milk and was lactose intolerant. She switched to lactose free milk and problem solved.

[marin]

10 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

When she told me the story and described the symptoms, I told her she had probably been drinking too much milk and was lactose intolerant. She switched to lactose free milk and problem solved.

Good for her now she is set for life what with having a doctor for a boyfriend. 

[Lorry]

9 hours ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

MRI scan. I "faited" of the price of that scan: 10.000

Was that in the eighties?