Several neighbouring countries compete with Thailand for foreign retirees

[tomacht8]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

         Someone planning to retire to Thailand could wait until more than half the year is over and then transfer both the 20 million baht and themselves to Thailand.  No tax on the money since they have not been in the country 180 days, so not a tax resident that year.  

That would be the way. One also thinks of the pensioners who have been here for a long time and are already tax residents. If you want to transfer large sums to Thailand, you should first disappear from Thailand for six months + 10 days to be on the safe side. Nobody knows how this tiresome tax issue will ultimately turn out in practice and what changes will come. But one thing is for sure, it is disadvantageous for foreigners who want to live in Thailand long-term.

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Not falling short for me on any of the issues you mentioned.

 

Different budget.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, Homburg said:

And Paraguay?

A weird country.

[Roo Island]

Just now, Jingthing said:

A weird country.

Why? We were only there for a week but found it ok. Just not cheap!

[sambum]

9 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I wonder if a Thai tax receipt will be required when applying for a POS in the future

 

"POS"? = Piece of s**t?

Edited August 21 by sambum

[Sydebolle]

Looking at the absolute inefficiency of all those immigration offices, combined with a never-ending avalanche of bureaucratic paper nobody in his right mind could process - even if they wanted to .....

If Malaysia would not be run by the fidels, many people including me would have moved there long, long time ago. You can legally own one house/apartment, the first car is tax-free, the second car costs half the tax, the visa is issued for five years incl. a multiple re-entry. It is really only the presence of the Fidels in spiral building with loud speakers, the selection of meats and the instructions on drinks. Everything else is by far more advanced than the semi-divine land of the Thais! 

[BE88]

16 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Looking at the absolute inefficiency of all those immigration offices, combined with a never-ending avalanche of bureaucratic paper nobody in his right mind could process - even if they wanted to .....

If Malaysia would not be run by the fidels, many people including me would have moved there long, long time ago. You can legally own one house/apartment, the first car is tax-free, the second car costs half the tax, the visa is issued for five years incl. a multiple re-entry. It is really only the presence of the Fidels in spiral building with loud speakers, the selection of meats and the instructions on drinks. Everything else is by far more advanced than the semi-divine land of the Thais! 

 

Penang State could be a good solution where a large portion of Chinese live.

 

[Homburg]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Yes indeed. Cambodia is so easy and hassle free regarding visas and this was the main reason I left Thailand after 20 years to continue my retirement across the border in Khmer Land which is now approaching 5 years.   If you are 55 years or older and want a retirement visa for whatever period, PLEASE NOTE in addition to what is quoted above, you must show your registration on Cambodia Immigration FPCS (Foreign Persons in Cambodia System). The onus is not on you but on your landlord, property owner, hotel manager etc. My annual retirement visa is due this coming October and my landlord will accompany me to show the FPCS registration on his smart phone. (I do not own one so do not have the app)

The Agent that I used sorted the FPCS out with my accommodation provider.  All I saw was the duck gliding across the water, no view of what was going on beneath the surface. Add to that no need for any trips to immigration and it was well worth the extra cost of using an agent imho.  😊 BTW, it MUST be the property owner that generates the FPCS page because the foreigner tenant may not do that, so having a smartphone would be of no use in this instance. (That said I find a smartphone indispensable in Phnom Penh for PassApp and the Citybus App.) 

[Homburg]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A weird country.

So, kinda like Thailand?

[Fairynuff]

Over the (long) period of time I’ve been living here I’ve seen the visa rules change a million times and almost never to make things easier. When every IO has the power to interpret the rules THEIR way instead of following fixed rules, the end result will always be that your status here is precarious. I accepted that long ago, I accepted too that the “powers” don’t really want us here. I spend my money as much as possible with small businesses where I’m sure I’m benefiting “real” people and I’m most likely to be appreciated.

If Thailand wants to compete it has a long way to go but I think the national arrogance will prevent that from happening. The next big issue for me is taxation. I’ve already started bringing cash back with me on regular trips back home. I will not pay tax on inward transfers, I’ll just spend less time here and my plans are already well underway. I’ll just tell Thailand “ I’m not care you”. I’m sure everyone of us has had that little nugget hurled at us more than once.

[Homburg]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

If that's true, (I have no reason to doubt it, but it sounds too good...), add that to Thailand's new unlimited land border crossings and I could see a lot of expats moving across the river to avoid the 400/800K baht requirement for extensions, the 90 day reports, as yet unknown tax implications, and that tight feeling in their buttcheeks every year when it's time to renew.

 

Thailand would get more tourist arrivals as we (because I may be one of them) cross over to visit several times a year, or perhaps even several entries per month, but the expats will be spending the majority of their sweaty money in Cambodia.

 

Yes.  That had certainly not escaped me either.  In fact I aim to spend a maximum of 5 months in any country every year so that I don't become "resident for tax purposes" anywhere.  If you become "resident for tax purposes" then at the VERY LEAST you get the hassle and stress of filing tax returns in that country, plus you are very likely to have to pay more tax (it's never a refund on taxes paid in the country where your income originates!).

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Homburg said:

Yes.  That had certainly not escaped me either.  In fact I aim to spend a maximum of 5 months in any country every year so that I don't become "resident for tax purposes" anywhere.  If you become "resident for tax purposes" then at the VERY LEAST you get the hassle and stress of filing tax returns in that country, plus you are very likely to have to pay more tax (it's never a refund on taxes paid in the country where your income originates!).

I recently spitballed the idea of a few guys getting together and renting properties in various SEA countries and rotating between them.  If you had 3 guys, they could rent (or buy) a place in Thailand, Malaysia, and Cambodia and each of them could live part of the year in all 3 countries.  Of course, it would have to be a group you get along with, and trust to keep up the shared properties while they're living there. 

 

And to be clear, I wouldn't advocate a room-mate situation.  More of a rotation where the guys never even have to see each other.  And they'd hire a cleaning crew to come in between each rotation.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, biggles45 said:

Philippines Options:-

1. Enter visa-free for 30 days, extend to total 59 days. Keep extending for a max of 36 months. Leave RP then return visa free entry and start again. No hassle from immigration for this. 

 

2. Resident Retirement Visa. (SRRV) A bank term DEPOSIT needed, amount varies. USA service folk deposit only $1,500°. No reporting to an migration office, EVER. The PRA, a govt agency, issues a member card, valid 2 years. You show it entering and leaving country. 

Had my SRRV 14 years, never a problem. Never visited a immig office in that time. 

Google PRA Philippines SRRV for more

Phillipines is now in the process of cracking down on that long standing tourist visa extension utopia.

 

How?

 

Extensive questioning at extensions.

 

Pushing married to Filipinos people into marriage status.

 

Pushing retired people to SRRV.

 

Pushing people living there out unless they can provide evidence they are really tourists.

 

On top of that I'm hearing of people being grilled even on first arrival as tourists. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

32 minutes ago, Homburg said:

So, kinda like Thailand?

 No.

[metisdead]

A post using ALL CAPS has been removed, please turn off your Caps Lock when posting. 

[CygnusX1]

1 hour ago, Homburg said:

Yes.  That had certainly not escaped me either.  In fact I aim to spend a maximum of 5 months in any country every year so that I don't become "resident for tax purposes" anywhere.  If you become "resident for tax purposes" then at the VERY LEAST you get the hassle and stress of filing tax returns in that country, plus you are very likely to have to pay more tax (it's never a refund on taxes paid in the country where your income originates!).

For Australians on certain types of superannuation pensions, it’s catastrophic financially to not be a “resident for tax purposes” - instead of losing 2% of your pension as tax, you lose 30% of the whole pension. Makes the hassle of filing a tax return well worthwhile, and is the reason I had to give up my dream of living in Thailand full time.

[Chwooly]

I have been living and working around SEA for about 30 years, Thailand is still the best option for a lot reasons, Vietnam is 2nd, Cambodia is 3rd, I put Lao 4th but have not had the chance to go there yet. Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines are non starters. Malaysia due to religion, Indonesia due to religion, infrastructure and crime and the Philippines is ridden with crime, food is not very good, water purification is poor, traffic and infrastructure are poor at best. Singapore is just too expensive. 

 

Just MHO

[metisdead]

A post contravening the following forum rule has been removed:

 

4. You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any member of the Thai royal family whether living or deceased. You will not criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments or discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing His Majesty The King of Thailand or the Thai royal family. You will not link to or discuss any website which contravenes this rule.To breach this rule is a serious issue that will result in suspension or possible removal from the forum.

[CallumWK]

3 hours ago, Chwooly said:

I have been living and working around SEA for about 30 years, Thailand is still the best option for a lot reasons, Vietnam is 2nd, Cambodia is 3rd, I put Lao 4th but have not had the chance to go there yet. Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines are non starters. Malaysia due to religion, Indonesia due to religion, infrastructure and crime and the Philippines is ridden with crime, food is not very good, water purification is poor, traffic and infrastructure are poor at best. Singapore is just too expensive. 

 

Just MHO

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

All those claiming that those countries you mention are better than Thailand, either haven't been there for longer than a few weeks holiday, or simply can not afford Thailand because they are skint.

[Flyguy330]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I know a few people who have stopped or are at least reconsidering their plans to retire in Thailand. Almost everyone has planned to sell their fully paid-up home and transfer the money to Thailand in order to live comfortably along with their regular pension. A single-family home in a big city, in a good location, can be sold for 500K Euros or around 20 million Thai baht. Anyone who then transfers these 20 million THB to Thailand in the hope of enjoying a peaceful retirement runs the risk of having to pay up to 35% in taxes. That would be around 7 million Thai baht or 185K Euros. Nobody who can do math will do that. Therefore, Thailand will lose a large piece of the pie of well-off pensioners in the future.

Are you sure about this?

In Malaysia (which has now got a Remittance Tax) you can REMIT the proceeds of the sale of a foreign property and it is EXEMPT from the Remittance Tax.

The Remittance Tax ONLY applies to INCOME earned overseas. Remitted proceeds from a property sale is CAPITAL (not Income), and is specifically exempted.

Maybe it's the same in Thailand?

[Flyguy330]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

I recently spitballed the idea of a few guys getting together and renting properties in various SEA countries and rotating between them.  If you had 3 guys, they could rent (or buy) a place in Thailand, Malaysia, and Cambodia and each of them could live part of the year in all 3 countries.  Of course, it would have to be a group you get along with, and trust to keep up the shared properties while they're living there. 

 

And to be clear, I wouldn't advocate a room-mate situation.  More of a rotation where the guys never even have to see each other.  And they'd hire a cleaning crew to come in between each rotation.

Nice idea, but if you never establish Tax Residence in one of those countries (and maintain it) you will probably be declared Tax Resident in your home country and taxed there instead. They've got us every way guys - you cannot become a global tax exile on planet earth. All you can do is find the cheapest legal option.

For me - I established Tax Residency in Malaysia, and only need do 90 days per year there to maintain it. The rest of the time I can be nomadic and untaxed.

Good plan for yachties too.

Edited August 21 by Flyguy330

[JTR1011]

1 hour ago, Flyguy330 said:

Nice idea, but if you never establish Tax Residence in one of those countries (and maintain it) you will probably be declared Tax Resident in your home country and taxed there instead. They've got us every way guys - you cannot become a global tax exile on planet earth. All you can do is find the cheapest legal option.

For me - I established Tax Residency in Malaysia, and only need do 90 days per year there to maintain it. The rest of the time I can be nomadic and untaxed.

Good plan for yachties too.

 

1 hour ago, Flyguy330 said:

Nice idea, but if you never establish Tax Residence in one of those countries (and maintain it) you will probably be declared Tax Resident in your home country and taxed there instead. They've got us every way guys - you cannot become a global tax exile on planet earth. All you can do is find the cheapest legal option.

For me - I established Tax Residency in Malaysia, and only need do 90 days per year there to maintain it. The rest of the time I can be nomadic and untaxed.

Good plan for yachties too.

In the US, if you spend 330 days a year outside the country you are exempted the first 120K of income.  If you make less than this it's best to claim tax residency in the home country (if you're American).

[geisha]

21 hours ago, Homburg said:

"Thailand offers a multiplicity of long term visas......" All of which seems to be thoughtfully designed to deter as many applicants as possible. By contrast in Cambodia, retirees pay an annual (multiple entry) visa extension fee of c.$200 (c.$300 via an agent with no need to ever set foot in immigration, just drop off your passport with a pic, pay the fee and collect it in about a week). And that's it. No mountains of paperwork, no bank deposit, no re-entry permits, no 90 day reporting. Just come and go as you please. One page in the passport is used up each year for the visa (plus entry and exit stamps). One gripe: the annual extension is for 364 days only!

I visited some friends in Cambodia. They live in Siem Reap.

Theres’ a good choice of very reasonably priced condos, my friends place was fantastic , rents are cheap, food is cheap, easy visas , I found it more social minded than Thailand, lots of get togethers,  great restaurants very cosmopolitan, nice night life , of course please don’t think I’m comparing it to Pattaya !! People are very kind and the spoken English quite good. I’ve been to most areas of Cambodia, it’s small after all, I used to go often to Sihanouk Ville until the Chinese invasion. All my friends businesses, lives , gone for good. Tho it seems lots of the invaders have left. I would consider Siem Reap for a long stay, the only problem would be medical care/ good hospitals . I’m not looking for being an expat, I appreciate my home and advantages too much to leave it all .

 

[geisha]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

I recently spitballed the idea of a few guys getting together and renting properties in various SEA countries and rotating between them.  If you had 3 guys, they could rent (or buy) a place in Thailand, Malaysia, and Cambodia and each of them could live part of the year in all 3 countries.  Of course, it would have to be a group you get along with, and trust to keep up the shared properties while they're living there. 

 

And to be clear, I wouldn't advocate a room-mate situation.  More of a rotation where the guys never even have to see each other.  And they'd hire a cleaning crew to come in between each rotation.

A new version of Airbnb. I could never live in Thailand all year round, I’d be bored silly.  Same as I don’t live all year round in my home town , I go away often . 

[mikebell]

19 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

$68).

Per MONTH = 28K annually versus 1900 in Thailand.  I think Laos doesn't want retirees.

[Burma Bill]

11 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

All those claiming that those countries you mention are better than Thailand, either haven't been there for longer than a few weeks holiday, or simply can not afford Thailand because they are skint.

 

With respect, how wrong you are!  I now live in Cambodia and have done so for the past 4 years. I lived in Thailand for 20 years and moved across the border when Thailand's visa system became a nightmare with all the associated financial bureaucracy.  I am certainly not skint (as you suggest), receiving a UK State Pension and 2 additional index linked UK Police Service Pensions. I have a nice regular income which provides me with a comfortable and hassle free life. Thailand does not provide a hassle free life - that is why I moved. I do visit Chiang Mai and Khon Kaen to visit old friends on short-break visa free holidays. IMO the Khmer people are far more friendly than the Thais. I enjoy a quiet life and I do not need sandy beaches, beer bars, prostitutes, night clubs etc. etc.  - my choice!

 

Regarding your statement above, may I suggest you put "brain into gear" before stating such rubbish! No further comment from me.

[CallumWK]

15 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

I lived in Thailand for 20 years and moved across the border when Thailand's visa system became a nightmare with all the associated financial bureaucracy. 

 

How strange, that I live in Thailand for 31 years, and the visa system isn't a nightmare at all for me.

15 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Thailand does not provide a hassle free life - that is why I moved.

 

What is not hassle free in Thailand? That you have to visit immigration once a year for your extension, need some money in the bank if you are not skint, and once every 90 days need to spend 5 minutes on a PC to do your report?

 

15 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

I suggest you put "brain into gear" before stating such rubbish! No further comment from me.

 

I put my brain into gear when I was born, and never became a policeman

Edited August 22 by CallumWK

[placeholder]

On 8/21/2024 at 7:37 AM, new2here said:

 

I agree that Thailands direction relative to what I’d call a “value proposition” for retirees is becoming less and less valuable … but… like it is with tourism.. rightly or wrongly.. thailand has had - for a long time - a near teflon coating .. and while they may implement X or Y rules that are clearly a net negative for a retirees, there’s STILL a large number who come.. so… i’d argue, so long as that trend doesn’t stop, there’s simply no incentive for Thailand to make it better…there will still be X thousands who come each year ….  plus, another point, retirees don’t vote.. and from a political ends, hitting a non-vote eligible segment of the people is a safer way to extract revenue than a voting segment. 

 

Short sighted? perhaps.. but again, it’s one that seems to have worked for Thailand for quite some time .. therefore I’d argue there’s no impending incentive for them to loosen up or change the rules in favor of a non-citizen. 

The thing is, in the past taxes weren't an issue. Now they are. And for wealthier expats taxes are likely to be a big issue. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Presnock]

On 8/21/2024 at 9:30 AM, Drumbuie said:

 Most of you are from countries which have with DTAs with Thailand  -have you actually bothered to work out and compare the tax figures for your income?  I did, and I'll be better off paying tax here than being tax resident in the UK. 

Also it feels right to contribute to the general good ( no pun intended) of the country I live in, whose roads I drive on, whose electricity I use, whose people grow, sell and cook the food I eat, whose schools educated the doctor I see, etc etc

 

Always good to look beyond yourself at the bigger picture. 

 

While I am free of Thai taxes, I do pay my share to the US.  I do however spend many millions of Thai baht yearly in Thailand which also benefits the people of Thailand.  I paid millions for my daughter's education and am still paying for further schooling and not complaining at all.  If however, Thailand were to change the laws and  force me  to pay Thai taxes, then I am not so sure I would still stay here but more and more countries that want retirees are starting to recognize that they may have jumped too quick to charge taxes on the expats which some didn't realize what they do bring with them.  My feelings anyway, and love being in Thailand still after 30 years or so.

[KhunLA]

Not much of a competition in my eyes, as neither destination interest me.  Or the other 2 countries, if they were expat friendly.