Picture: S26T submarine, courtesy of China Daily

 

In a notable development, Germany has officially confirmed it cannot proceed with the sale of submarine engines to Thailand. This decision stems from European Union restrictions on exporting military equipment to China, revealed Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister of Thailand, Phumtham Wechayachai.

 

The announcement follows discussions held on 13th May with German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius.

 

Thailand's long-standing efforts to acquire these German-made engines, starting from Prayut Chan-o-cha’s tenure, have faced repeated barriers.

 

Initially sanctioned in 2017, the planned procurement of three Chinese submarines, totalling 14,783 million baht, encountered turbulence as Germany enforced its arms embargo affecting China, which subsequently impacted Thailand’s plans.

 

The contemporary hold-up was propelled into the spotlight in early 2022 when Thai opposition flagged the stalled state of submarine construction. The issue originated from China’s adoption of German MTU engines in their designs without prior consultations, as affirmed by Philipp Doert, former German Federal Military Attaché in Thailand.

 

On a positive note, the recent meeting between Wechayachai and Pistorius was not solely focused on the stalled engine deal. commendations flowed as Thailand lauded Germany for hosting the forthcoming 6th United Nations Peacekeeping Ministerial Meeting 2025 and the newly minted German administration under Friedrich Merz. Continual stability in defense policy was highlighted by Pistorius’s retention as Defense Minister.

 

Beyond the pressing engine matter, Thai-German relations are robust, marking 163 years of collaboration. Germany holds its stance as Thailand’s primary EU trading partner while nourishing military ties through joint visitations, discourse, academic support, and purchases.

 

Concluding the dialogues, both ministers celebrated the progression of the Bilateral Annual Cooperation Programme and the 7th Politico-Military Staff Talks. Thailand extended gratitude for Germany’s educational aid, which bolsters Thai military capabilities, and explored further collaboration in cyber and AI technologies.

 

Notably, Thailand invited Germany to partake in the Defense & Security 2025 event in Bangkok, underlining aspirations for shared growth in defense partnerships.

 

  Adapted by ASEAN Now from Khaosod 2025-05-14

 

 

I thought this was ole news that Germany a few years ago said "cannot proceed with the sale of submarine engines to Thailand."

So is the sub deal off ?

3 hours ago, Dan747 said:

I thought this was ole news that Germany a few years ago said "cannot proceed with the sale of submarine engines to Thailand."

 

Indeed your'e right.

28 minutes ago, JoePai said:

So is the sub deal off ?

 

Has the Hopewell deal ever been resolved?

 

Is this palaver still going on? 

 

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Has the Hopewell deal ever been resolved?

 

I had forgotten all about the Thai Stonehenge.

 

So typically Thai. No foresight due to their appetite for corruption, greed, avarice and their hubris. 

4 hours ago, Dan747 said:

I thought this was ole news that Germany a few years ago said "cannot proceed with the sale of submarine engines to Thailand."

Absolutely right, and I was also under the impression that China and Thailand had agreed on a Chinese engine for this 'white elephant' so that the brown envelopes could continue flowing.

5 hours ago, webfact said:

the planned procurement of three Chinese submarines, totalling 14,783 million baht, encountered turbulence as Germany enforced its arms embargo affecting China, which subsequently impacted Thailand’s plans.

 

 

Less than 5 million each sounds cheap, is that because they do not have engines?

1 hour ago, Hornell said:

Absolutely right, and I was also under the impression that China and Thailand had agreed on a Chinese engine for this 'white elephant' so that the brown envelopes could continue flowing.

 

Wasn't there something about the Chinese dongers being unsuitable for use in submarines? Something about them being unable to work properly when the sub went underwater?

They should still buy it, they can park it's empty carcass next to the useless aircraft carrier and pretend they have a viable navy.

The sub deal was a planned failure from day #1..

Come on folks its been almost 10 years now..

This was a massive success story for the brown envelope boys and their families.....

There're still some solutions... 

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Wasn't there something about the Chinese dongers being unsuitable for use in submarines? Something about them being unable to work properly when the sub went underwater?

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thailand-strikes-new-submarine-deal-with-china

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Less than 5 million each sounds cheap, is that because they do not have engines?

 

14,783,000,000  baht

Just under 5 billion each.

3 hours ago, Hornell said:

Absolutely right, and I was also under the impression that China and Thailand had agreed on a Chinese engine for this 'white elephant' so that the brown envelopes could continue flowing.

 

If I 'member correct, the contract called for German engines, but Germany prevented transfer to China.  Meanwhile China had been making and selling exact copies under license from the German manufacturer.

 

A previous Thai government wanted to cancel and have frigates delivered instead.  Last government agreed to having Chinese engines, but most recent government reversed that decision.

 

This is just a final court ruling from Germany, not really affecting the current contract.

 

I expect Thailand will eventually agree to having the Chinese manufactured Germn-designed engines installed, as these are the same engines in the same subs China has been selling elsewhere, including Pakistan.

 

Seems Pakistan is satisfied with the subs, as well as the recent performance of Chinese jet fighters and missiles, so this should be a non-issue.

11 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thailand-strikes-new-submarine-deal-with-china

12 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

 

14,783,000,000  baht

Just under 5 billion each.

 

Money that could be used to other purposes but this didn't work for them, they just wanted the brown envelopes. Disgusting to say the least

 

No Western country is going to sell military equipment to you if you are very close to China. On a project I was on in a Russian state, CCTV cameras to Mil Std could not be purchased because the location was part of Russia.

4 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

So typically Thai. No foresight due to their appetite for corruption, greed, avarice and their hubris. 

Not strictly correct.

 

What is does prove however, is the stupidity of most of the senior military officers under an illegal military coup government don't seem to have any real idea of what they are doing.

I was hoping the new Thai leader would "can" this ridiculous purchase and thought Thailand was purchasing 1 submarine but now I see its 3!

Germany has repeatably told you no MTU's for china so why is this story back in the news!!!

Spend the money on education & infrastructure within Thailand you morons!!

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand's long-standing efforts to acquire these German-made engines, starting from Prayut Chan-o-cha’s tenure, have faced repeated barriers.

Cancel the order, get your money back... I'm sure Xi will understand

4 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Less than 5 million each sounds cheap, is that because they do not have engines?

And all the windows are broken

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand invited Germany to partake in the Defense & Security 2025 event in Bangkok

and afterwards there will be a massage followed by renewed engine talks, ja!

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thailand-strikes-new-submarine-deal-with-china

 

Are the two engines not identical, apart from the label?

 

the offered Chinese engine, CHD620 is actually a licenced-manufactured version of the German MTU396 engine.

 

https://www.defensemirror.com/news/35501/Chinese_Submarine_Engine_is_a_Licensed_produced_German_Powerplant__Thai_Navy_Chief

 

And the German engine is no longer in production.

 

Production of all MTU 396 diesel engines has been discontinued from 2020 as well that makes Chinese-style submarines equipped with diesel engine propulsion MTU16V396SE84 such as Type 039A/B/C/D (NATO) diesel-electric attack (SSK) submarines (class coded Yuan) built after this will have to be replaced with a CHD620V16H6 diesel engine.

 

https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2023/08/china-completes-certification-for.html

 

46 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Are the two engines not identical, apart from the label?

 

 

 

Ive no idea, I did not write the Thaiger article.

Thai submarine plans sink as Germany halts engine sale.

 

What in Satans Name is Wrong with all those people Thais /Germans /Chinese.

It was all in the Bag 2 years ago. The Germans said ,NO CAN DO  no German Engines in China Subs  for Thailand  .

China said after   That they could supply a similar Engine made in China for the Thai Subs. 

This is worse than a Kinder garden Argument . 

 

That should've  been it  Buy the Sub with the China "knock-off" engine  or "Scrap the deal"

 

7 hours ago, Hornell said:

Thailand had agreed on a Chinese engine

What they agreed was the installation of a Chinese electrical generator and label it an "engine." No Chinese submarine has such a generator that substitutes as an engine. But PM Prayut paid a very high nonrefundable deposit and annual payments that obligate Thailand to purchase 3 of such submarines. 

PS: While Prayut was PM he was also Minister of Defence

12 hours ago, webfact said:

procurement of three Chinese submarines, totaling 14,783 million baht

Wonder how many Thai citizens that money could have helped...how many kids it could have educated with schools built...how many helped with hospitals & dentists,,,how many provinces helped with redesign to stop yearly flooding...Instead 14,783 MILLION baht for three anchors

Thai submarine plans "sink."   Great play on words. 😀 

 

Germany halts submarine engine sale. That will "go down" well with the Thai gov't.

 

Has all this "torpedoed" the Royal Thai Navy's desire to have a submarine?