Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[HeijoshinCool]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

These two young suspects have had more support than I would have thought possible, and maybe more than they deserve. I hope they will provide the truth as to what happened, but I suspect that either they were too drunk at the time, or they are simply scared to tell the truth and implicate the true murderer. Who ever committed the murder probably made sure that the two suspects too drunk to be able to remember what really happened in any detail so they would never be able to provide effective testimony against anyone. The suspects were probably handy for obtaining DNA for the crime scene, but were probably too drunk to be able to clearly explain what really happened.

Wait, they are too scared to tell the truth?

They are quite likely facing the death penalty if they are found guilty.

What do you think might have them more frightened than that?

.

I'll reply to you once, then that's it. I happen to believe you and JohnThailandJohn are twins.

How about slow torture? How about the promise of having their families killed?

In a foreign country, in the hands of deep corruption, this would motivate me, and I'm educated.

[ClutchClark]

I've got to wonder what's in 850 pages if there isn't enough "crucial information?"

When I wrote reports, it was limited to crucial information. Yep. 100% crucial, or it does not get included.

Anything else would be, like many of the posts in this thread, what's commonly referred to as "superfluous."

There were over 100 investigators.

850 pages is not that much when you consider how many interviews would have been conducted, how many alibis verified, etc, etc.

They include every detail lest they be accused of cover-up and lack of transparency and now instead they are accused of providing too much detail.

[Carrerakiss]

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

Think you are jumping the gun a bit re the parents, you have no idea what-so-ever to what they re doing, thinking or planning. Easy on the mangelwurzel's catweasle might be affecting your thinking.

The families have more than enough to deal with. I'm sure the UK authorities have told them to wait for things to take their course and when it becomes clear what is happening, then they can decide what to say and do.

Let's face it, the whole thing is a total farce right now with utter confusion as to who did what to whom and when, with more confusion coming out of the woodwork by the hour.

[jamstock]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

A rapist that doesn't want to leave semen inside the victim as it can be a bit of a give away!!!

So then they leave the condom behind instead. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Also I imagine they had plenty if time to fumble around and put it on.

[ClutchClark]

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

These two young suspects have had more support than I would have thought possible, and maybe more than they deserve. I hope they will provide the truth as to what happened, but I suspect that either they were too drunk at the time, or they are simply scared to tell the truth and implicate the true murderer. Who ever committed the murder probably made sure that the two suspects too drunk to be able to remember what really happened in any detail so they would never be able to provide effective testimony against anyone. The suspects were probably handy for obtaining DNA for the crime scene, but were probably too drunk to be able to clearly explain what really happened.

Wait, they are too scared to tell the truth?

They are quite likely facing the death penalty if they are found guilty.

What do you think might have them more frightened than that?

.

I'll reply to you once, then that's it. I happen to believe you and JohnThailandJohn are twins.

How about slow torture? How about the promise of having their families killed?

In a foreign country, in the hands of deep corruption, this would motivate me, and I'm educated.

OK, but if they are so afraid of what you suggest then why did they just recant their story?

Wouldn't doing so now place them at odds with the dark omnipotent forces you allude to?

[Sviss Geez]

Jesus wept.

Jesus may have wept but thats about all he did. He sure never lifted a hand to help the innocent on that beach.

Stupid comment bashing Christianity again. Its called free will, look it up and try and learn a bit more before making such naive comments.

He wasn't Christianity-bashing, neither was it a stupid comment. It was an accurate observational response to a blasphemous (in some people's eyes) profanity made by someone who clearly has no Christian beliefs and thus could be considered to be bashing Christianity himself. Which, incidentally is called free will, look it up.

[Carrerakiss]

It is not clear to me who actually represents the two accused migrant workers that are from a third country nation which may or may not be Myanmar. I read reports that their lawyer states the two suspects had recanted their confessions, then I read this statement from a "Human Rights Group" stating that the accused are insisting that they did commit the crimes... I guess that some of the "Human Rights Group" folks as well as the migrant workers' country's embassy, which may or may not be Burma, might not have the interests of the accused at heart.

Sshh. Don't mention Burma. I think I might have mentioned it once but got away with it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

A rapist that doesn't want to leave semen inside the victim as it can be a bit of a give away!!!

So then they leave the condom behind instead. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Also I imagine they had plenty if time to fumble around and put it on.

I'm not saying they did this alone. It does seem like there was one other person involved at least (maybe the other victim used it) but didn't complete the act as he was interupted.

The fact that they haven't really managed to garner any evidence relating to the condom is suspicious and why the person left it mind even more so.

I don't think that anything can be proved at this point beyond the fact that the two Burmese men raped her!! As to who killed them and whether there was/were other rapists that covered their actions, who knows!!! Certainly nobody on this forum of amateur sleuths.

[CapFarmer]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

Yes, slightly off topic anecdote to illustrate a point. In preparation for my wedding ceremony years ago, we packaged Baht 300,000 which we were using to pay for land on which we were to build a house. At the wedding ceremony, the ceremony MC took the package, showed the contents to the crowd, stated that there was Baht 2 million in the container and that he had counted it himself, then handed it to my wife's mother. After the ceremony, we bought the land and to this day the story of how I paid millions and millions of baht dowry continues to circulate in the villages around my wife's baan. I estimate that there are more witnesses to the counting of the dowry than attended the ceremony of all weddings in that province that year.

[smutcakes]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

A rapist that doesn't want to leave semen inside the victim as it can be a bit of a give away!!!

So then they leave the condom behind instead. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Also I imagine they had plenty if time to fumble around and put it on.

I'm not saying they did this alone. It does seem like there was one other person involved at least (maybe the other victim used it) but didn't complete the act as he was interupted.

The fact that they haven't really managed to garner any evidence relating to the condom is suspicious and why the person left it mind even more so.

I don't think that anything can be proved at this point beyond the fact that the two Burmese men raped her!! As to who killed them and whether there was/were other rapists that covered their actions, who knows!!! Certainly nobody on this forum of amateur sleuths.

[Pundi6446]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

The whole case is strange, a total set up

[robsamui]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

Yes, slightly off topic anecdote to illustrate a point. In preparation for my wedding ceremony years ago, we packaged Baht 300,000 which we were using to pay for land on which we were to build a house. At the wedding ceremony, the ceremony MC took the package, showed the contents to the crowd, stated that there was Baht 2 million in the container and that he had counted it himself, then handed it to my wife's mother. After the ceremony, we bought the land and to this day the story of how I paid millions and millions of baht dowry continues to circulate in the villages around my wife's baan. I estimate that there are more witnesses to the counting of the dowry than attended the ceremony of all weddings in that province that year.

Wow. You single-handedly whacked up the price of a Thai wedding. Congrats.

[bkkgooner]

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

Their little girl was raped and murdered thousands of miles from home leave it out mate, nothing is going to bring their girl back to them.

[stephen terry]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

Maybe someone put the condom on inside-out. It was dark after all!

Condoms sometimes come off in the vagina , it might have remained their during the double rape , to be found afterwards with their DNA on the outside .

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

There's no evidence to support your wild accusation. Their confession was recanted, i.e. no evidence either way. There is no RTP report of DNA of theirs on the hoe. No evidence. There is no piece of evidence that supports a murder accusation. I suggest you think again.

[Neeranam]

WARNING - HEARSAY post.

So, this is what the CSI guys have been hearing from folks on the island, please don't bite my head off for posting rumours, but in the absence of cold hard facts I think its interesting at least to hear what people who are scared to speak publicly are willing to whisper in secret, make of it what you will.

Sean was indeed tight with Nomsod and family - he worked in their bar, we all know that much.

People have alleged that both Sean and Nomsod are known to gangbang tourists, sometimes using date-rape drugs. Nomsod's English is not so good so Sean was a good middle man, as someone put it.

We also know that Sean has a sexual offence in his past. I SAY AGAIN - I'm posting what I hear, if you DON"T LIKE IT then skip my post.

Also, Sean is still alive because he uploaded a song to his Soundcloud page 4 days ago. I have already sent him a message asking him to speak out

I think the song is Sean's way of speaking out.

Any link? He's an excellent songwriter.

[ClutchClark]

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

There's no evidence to support your wild accusation. Their confession was recanted, i.e. no evidence either way. There is no RTP report of DNA of theirs on the hoe. No evidence. There is no piece of evidence that supports a murder accusation. I suggest you think again.

Was it ever stated whether there were fingerprints lifted from the hoe?

All the talk is constantly DNA but fingerprints are every bit as useful.

For instance, the cigarette with DNA, was it ever made public whether fingerprints were also found on the butt (fag)?

[JLCrab]

Reply to #208: Thank you. some of you guys with your long-winded convoluted scenarios remind me of this from Humphrey Bogart:

[bkkgooner]

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms"

Let me help you complete the sentence:

They insisted that they didn't wear condoms whilst they raped her!!!

Sorry!! just realised, that bit was near the beginning of the sentence - do you not understand what this means?? surely you can't be that ignorant!!

Why is each of your posts so full of glee? Have some respect you are talking about two murdered people this is not a <deleted> game show, there is no prize for thinking correctly about who murdered two innocent people.

[Thai at Heart]

Declaring ones innocence does not make one innocent.

Not sure about other countries but the US is chock full of prisoners who declare their innocence.

Not saying they did it not saying they didn't.

Only saying recanting a confession is not proof either way.

Since the possibility continues to exist that they did commit this horrendous crime, I am not going to extend my sympathy to them.

I will leave that to the posters here who really want to see a Thai convicted.

Well, having a confession is an admission of guilt.

Pleading not guilty is not a stamp of innocence. That said. If they have recanted and there is now a request for more evidence it isn't looking like a water tight case is it.

Moral of this story is obviously admit nothing and get your embassy and a lawyer involved asap, before they start pulling your nails out and you sign a confession.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Well somebody raped and murdered them.

Who do you think did it, just out of interest??

[canuckamuck]

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

There's no evidence to support your wild accusation. Their confession was recanted, i.e. no evidence either way. There is no RTP report of DNA of theirs on the hoe. No evidence. There is no piece of evidence that supports a murder accusation. I suggest you think again.

Was it ever stated whether there were fingerprints lifted from the hoe?

All the talk is constantly DNA but fingerprints are every bit as useful.

For instance, the cigarette with DNA, was it ever made public whether fingerprints were also found on the butt (fag)?

The lack of fingerprints reported means that the fingerprints found belonged to someone who wasn't there.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms"

Let me help you complete the sentence:

They insisted that they didn't wear condoms whilst they raped her!!!

Sorry!! just realised, that bit was near the beginning of the sentence - do you not understand what this means?? surely you can't be that ignorant!!

Why is each of your posts so full of glee? Have some respect you are talking about two murdered people this is not a <deleted> game show, there is no prize for thinking correctly about who murdered two innocent people.

So you think that protecting the likely killers is showing respect for the family!!

[ClutchClark]

When the little girl was killed and thrown from the train and the police thumped the accused around a bit for his confession, nobody cared or tried to tuen him into a victim or say his confession didn't count.

Why do so many here want to make these potential killers into victims?

Does Burma not have any violence? Why is it so impossible for some to fathom that these confessed killers could have done this crime?

Now their high fallutin attorney has arrived and started a defense lime every attorney does everywhere. Do the numerous defenders of these two accused always believe what a defense attorney says about their client?

Has anyone presented photo evidence of physical abuse?

[HeijoshinCool]

I've got to wonder what's in 850 pages if there isn't enough "crucial information?"

When I wrote reports, it was limited to crucial information. Yep. 100% crucial, or it does not get included.

Anything else would be, like many of the posts in this thread, what's commonly referred to as "superfluous."

There were over 100 investigators.

850 pages is not that much when you consider how many interviews would have been conducted, how many alibis verified, etc, etc.

They include every detail lest they be accused of cover-up and lack of transparency and now instead they are accused of providing too much detail.

.

They weren't accused of providing too much detail. They were told to clean up the report, and to put something damning in it.

Another guy totally lacking law enforcement experience, who suddenly knows how to write a report on a double homicide, for submission to the prosecutor's office.

The report contained alibis? You are very funny man.

Prosecutors don't need alibis to file charges. That might come later, but not now. What they require now is a level of probative fact to feel assured they have a chance of getting a conviction.

They also need a well-written report, that won't be the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

They got neither. Just more evidence of a shoddy, incompetent investigation, with likely also enough loopholes to get the prosecutor jammed up.

Thank you for making my point.

[Alwyn]

and those who refused to give DNA samples? (I believe the headman's son) no one asking why anymore?

The untouchable one.... I find it disturbing that a suspect can just refuse a DNA test, show's who is really running the show out there

[stephen terry]

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

There's no evidence to support your wild accusation. Their confession was recanted, i.e. no evidence either way. There is no RTP report of DNA of theirs on the hoe. No evidence. There is no piece of evidence that supports a murder accusation. I suggest you think again.

Was it ever stated whether there were fingerprints lifted from the hoe?

All the talk is constantly DNA but fingerprints are every bit as useful.

For instance, the cigarette with DNA, was it ever made public whether fingerprints were also found on the butt (fag)?

I don't recall any mention of fingerprints by the RTP. That could be deliberate. Or, as the crime scene was contaminated, it might explain lack of DNA or fingerprints on the hoe. I am sure the majority of the RTP have tried their best to complete a murder investigation, despite vocal pressure from outside. I think it could be likely that the suspects were in the vicinity of the crime scene, and it could be that DNA places them in bodily contact with the victims. But that's it. No evidence they murdered them, only conjecture and circumstantial evidence. A confession obtained under duress (albeit recanted) is not evidence.

The only known witness to what happened is Sean McAnna. Unless the FCO engage him to provide a witness statement, none of us (at this point of time) are able to evidence who killed David and Hannah.

[CapFarmer]

It is not clear to me who actually represents the two accused migrant workers that are from a third country nation which may or may not be Myanmar. I read reports that their lawyer states the two suspects had recanted their confessions, then I read this statement from a "Human Rights Group" stating that the accused are insisting that they did commit the crimes... I guess that some of the "Human Rights Group" folks as well as the migrant workers' country's embassy, which may or may not be Burma, might not have the interests of the accused at heart.

Sshh. Don't mention Burma. I think I might have mentioned it once but got away with it.

I mentioned Burma only because I inadvertently mentioned Myanmar and so I didn't want anyone to think I was singling out any particular country's citizens.

[rick182]

Well somebody raped and murdered them.

Who do you think did it, just out of interest??

David got into a argument at some Mafia type Thias bar.. He was defending her hourner became some locals were hitting on her.. They took offence to David defending her.. followed them out of the bar and did them in.. The murderes are mates with the owner and all the locals are too scared to dob them in.

[lucpez]

Declaring ones innocence does not make one innocent.

Not sure about other countries but the US is chock full of prisoners who declare their innocence.

Not saying they did it not saying they didn't.

Only saying recanting a confession is not proof either way.

Since the possibility continues to exist that they did commit this horrendous crime, I am not going to extend my sympathy to them.

I will leave that to the posters here who really want to see a Thai convicted.

Well, having a confession is an admission of guilt.

Pleading not guilty is not a stamp of innocence. That said. If they have recanted and there is now a request for more evidence it isn't looking like a water tight case is it.

Moral of this story is obviously admit nothing and get your embassy and a lawyer involved asap, before they start pulling your nails out and you sign a confession.

In a serious investigation a confession means nothing as there are several reasons why an accused may want to confess.

In a serious investigation all facts and suspects need to be probed, and all witnesses questioned, until the investigators are able to produce a solid reconstruction of the events.

[7Heaven]

WARNING - HEARSAY post.

So, this is what the CSI guys have been hearing from folks on the island, please don't bite my head off for posting rumours, but in the absence of cold hard facts I think its interesting at least to hear what people who are scared to speak publicly are willing to whisper in secret, make of it what you will.

Sean was indeed tight with Nomsod and family - he worked in their bar, we all know that much.

People have alleged that both Sean and Nomsod are known to gangbang tourists, sometimes using date-rape drugs. Nomsod's English is not so good so Sean was a good middle man, as someone put it.

We also know that Sean has a sexual offence in his past. I SAY AGAIN - I'm posting what I hear, if you DON"T LIKE IT then skip my post.

Also, Sean is still alive because he uploaded a song to his Soundcloud page 4 days ago. I have already sent him a message asking him to speak out

I think the song is Sean's way of speaking out.

Any link? He's an excellent songwriter.

This is the last one he have posted

https://soundcloud.com/seanmcanna/johnny