British police arrive in Thailand to observe Koh Tao murder probe

[iReason]

Maybe they can find out what happened to all the evidence this officer claimed to have.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

Yeah, no s##t.

They sent in Pol General Somyod from Bangkok to replace him, and all that went away...

And now, Somyod has gone away. Somewhere...

[heyexile]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

Thai criminal justice system has a terrible record in tourist murder cases as this recent article documents:

"Not saving Thailand`s face: the backlash of police corruption in tourist murders."

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509

[kcirtapyelrah]

How much input will they be allowed?

If just observing then they might as well stayed at home.

As for setting up a police station well that horse as truly bolted but I suppose anything is better than the current set up.

Still the RTP reckon they have the guys and the DNA so innocent until proven guilty but if they are then throw the full weight of the courts at them

Here is a sentence from a National News Bureau of Thailand article dated October 23rd. “Regional Public Prosecution 8 deputy director-general Thawatchai Siangjaew said that “Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario”.

What a scam, it's theater, a show for the public, the Brits will not be allowed to work on the case.

it is not a scam

Chris Ware stood up for his friend, and gave a full briefing of what happened that night.

The full details of what Scotland Yard detectives know, is everything we hoped for, and more.

So much so, that the word is, the Police general in charge, has recently gone on sick leave and his whereabouts are unknown

This case has blown wide open, and the people involved know it

Expect this to get bigger than any of the bad actors could have ever expected, and with it, international coverage of their arrests

They can't send Scotland Yard to Coventry without serious repercussions. THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWN.

[kcirtapyelrah]

There is no real evidence and no proving the evidence provided is correct or incorrect. That's a good start for them. Are they really interested in the judiciary system?

I don't believe that it is a waste of time. The officers will examine evidence and procedures, compare with what they know and do in Britain, and tell the world what they think. How can that be a waste of time?

What have they got to examine?

There is no real evidence and no proving the evidence provided is correct or incorrect.

They are not authorised to finger the justice system.

They will find nothing, it's just a few officers or forensics off on a free holiday.

Simple as that.

[joecoolfrog]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

[japsportscarmad]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

Your either an ex copper or a coppers mark or grass ain't you more likely the latter

As You know nothing about how the criminal justice system at all. The British police are no better than many out there and not as good as many. But whist many police officers are dedicated honest and hard working it would appear many are not.

[mojorison]

Just curious, does that guy in the photo have a gimpy left arm? If so, much easier to identify.

could easily just be an injury from a fall

but, it is seemingly autonomic,

Looks like Erb's Palsy. Nerve damage caused by difficult birth. Hard to treat, and much more common in Thailand than the west from my observations.

[thailandchilli]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

Agreed, I've lived in the UK for over 30 years and more recently in Thailand for 10, I know which police force I would rather deal with if this had happened to any of my children! So all this bickering is nonsense and childish when there is such a serious matter at hand

[Gweiloman]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

Well, I guess you don't drive or ride a bike on the streets in Bangkok.

[japsportscarmad]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

Agreed, I've lived in the UK for over 30 years and more recently in Thailand for 10, I know which police force I would rather deal with if this had happened to any of my children! So all this bickering is nonsense and childish when there is such a serious matter at hand

The Thai one? If you lived here 10 years you must like it and feel safe so the Police must be doing something right? In most countries incompetence is rife in the public services.

[mikosan]

It is not permitted to paste the entire article here, but,

there is a lengthy report about Chris Ware reporting to the Scotland Yard detectives,

everything that happened on that island and who it is that drugged the girl, intending to gang rape her

the CCTV footage has been identified as a man who later he police claimed was not on the island at the time,

but who's girlfriends internet postings dispute as she apparently felt abandoned for 2 days as there was no contact with that certain said un-named individual, for the two days in question

the CCTV footage shows a person favoring their left arm or shoulder,

you can hide your face,

but you cannot hide pain that causes body misalignment

it is also being reported on the same page of the same site which is a social media page of a Thai person with great personal interest in seeing the real killers being brought to justice,

that the police general in charge has suddenly taken a "sick leave" and his whereabouts are unknown

to the people who prefer to express doubt, and want to quote Thai officials

take a look at the facts on the ground,

they may as well have said, "over my dead body" you will come to Thailand and interfere in our perfect investigation

well,

they are here aren't they

today may be the longest day in Kho Tao history and, it is a bad time to be the guy on the CCTV footage

Where can I find the article you refer to?

[cookee68]

Let's hope the Embassy gave them a very full briefing on what to expect here, what they will be up against and what they MAY be allowed to do / see and most especially what is NOT going to happen.

If this all becomes a waste of time, barely going through the motions, I hope on their return home they are permitted to speak out fully on what did or did not happen. It's too important to have to observe diplomatic niceties so as not to upset Thailand.

I agree, if they are hindered away from many things, and all does, not add up, then they should be allowed to express their personal opinions based on what they saw, was allowed to see, and what was told and given to them, regardless of who it upsets, but I think there is more that meets the eye than what we know about, lets see, after all if and I say if, the 2 they have in custody are guilty, then we should quickly stop trying to get them treated like some sort of celebraties, Lets wait and see what pans out

[thailandchilli]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

Agreed, I've lived in the UK for over 30 years and more recently in Thailand for 10, I know which police force I would rather deal with if this had happened to any of my children! So all this bickering is nonsense and childish when there is such a serious matter at hand

The Thai one? If you lived here 10 years you must like it and feel safe so the Police must be doing something right? In most countries incompetence is rife in the public services.

I can assure you its not the Thai one, I've had experience of their work and to get them to do anything costs money even when you get your house burgled. Do I feel safe, no, not at all but have a Thai family to look after including children and so that is my responsibility.

[japsportscarmad]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

Well, I guess you don't drive or ride a bike on the streets in Bangkok.

No your right I don't like Bangkok much at all too many Farang moaning about how good Blighty is but not seeming to want to go home ( comment not directed at you though at all) I tend to use a double cab so blend in better as standing out is never good in a foreign country as your always more likely to appear more vulnerable and easier to either rip off or attack.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The Guardian story you quote is interesting. Most English will remember the Plebgate case which is a fair comment, top police working as attack dogs for certain politicians, a disgrace by anybody's standards. Most of the other stuff in his 330 page report he claimed to have in front of them are regarding brutality, false arrest (usually people who got arrested and subsequently released when fresh evidence came to light), racism (seems the racism thing goes the other way now, if you're a Muslim do what you want, if you're white, you're in trouble), none of it really corruption.

I agree with you BUT,

It becomes corruption, the moment someone 'higher up' tries to cover up mistakes or incompetence and their colleagues 'go along' with the cover up.

Hopefully there will come a time when all police, worldwide, put the law before each other.

Edited October 24, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[cookee68]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

Well, I guess you don't drive or ride a bike on the streets in Bangkok.

No your right I don't like Bangkok much at all too many Farang moaning about how good Blighty is but not seeming to want to go home ( comment not directed at you though at all) I tend to use a double cab so blend in better as standing out is never good in a foreign country as your always more likely to appear more vulnerable and easier to either rip off or attack.

So you are well aware of what happens in Thailand then, as your statement suggest, so you take precautions,

[japsportscarmad]

The British police may have been on occasion incompetent , corrupt and subject to political pressure but , and this is the point , the RTP are less professional in all respects by a huge margin. I doubt that any police force in the world has a reputation to equal the Brits so time to cut out the bullxxxx .

Agreed, I've lived in the UK for over 30 years and more recently in Thailand for 10, I know which police force I would rather deal with if this had happened to any of my children! So all this bickering is nonsense and childish when there is such a serious matter at hand

The Thai one? If you lived here 10 years you must like it and feel safe so the Police must be doing something right? In most countries incompetence is rife in the public services.

I can assure you its not the Thai one, I've had experience of their work and to get them to do anything costs money even when you get your house burgled. Do I feel safe, no, not at all but have a Thai family to look after including children and so that is my responsibility.

A good friend of mine lives next door to a Police man he's very honest and has no trapping of wealth at all so I doubt if he takes tea money, when my friend was seriously ill last Christmas he took him a considerable distance to hospital and stayed the night as he lives on his own. My experience of the Thai police has generally been good so I can only take as I find. Although the tourist murders do look at least on the outside to be at best poorly handled.

[japsportscarmad]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

Well, I guess you don't drive or ride a bike on the streets in Bangkok.

No your right I don't like Bangkok much at all too many Farang moaning about how good Blighty is but not seeming to want to go home ( comment not directed at you though at all) I tend to use a double cab so blend in better as standing out is never good in a foreign country as your always more likely to appear more vulnerable and easier to either rip off or attack.

So you are well aware of what happens in Thailand then, as your statement suggest, so you take precautions,

Of course I take precautions and there are always issues everywhere but I would take the same precautions in Europe the U.S. Middle East or Africa. I work in the security and risk assessment industry so it's just what I would do anywhere. I am based in London and Chaingmai mainly but would not want to stand out in London anymore than here. If you look like a target you will be one. My experience of vultures be them criminals, police, touts or scammers is they pick what they perceive as the easy targets first.

[ironbark]

The police seem to think that the "confession" is not necessary because the DNA will provide all the necessary proof. What they dont realise or at least not saying is that a smart lawyer only has to cast doubt on the way the DNA was collected, its security in storage or the possibility of contamination and it will be thrown out of court along with any chance of a conviction.

[Baerboxer]

In fairness to the Thai police I have never had an issue and have never been asked for a bribe or even had it suggested. In fact I have been surprised how courteous they have been and have always co-operated in anything we have needed. However, I have also never been accused of a crime. I am sure there are good and bad in all areas of life including the police, but my experience of the Thai Police had always been positive.

No one really likes the police.

They get damned by the PC / Liberal do-gooder brigade, and the law and order hang'em high lot too. They either do to little or too much.

You have not been a member of this site long, since July. Don't know how long you've been here. But, because you personally have not had a problem with the RTP, or been asked for bribes, yet, doesn't mean anything. Simply your experience in a time period.

Look up the actual performance statistics of the various British police forces. But, anyone can cherry pick cases to make a point. No police force is perfect. Some officers are no doubt corrupt, some have recently been punished for their actions, deservedly so, and some will be inept.

British police are underpaid and underfunded. Training, moral and operational efficiency must be affected. Passing the tests to become a police officer are not easy. But you don't have to pay to pass, then buy your equipment from your superior officer, then buy your rank and position, then buy promotion - all with a tiny salary that has to be supplemented by other means.

If you believe the RTP are generally equal to or anywhere close to the ability, skills and professionalism of the UK police, then you should do some more research.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Gentlemen. Place your bets!!

new_sherlock_holmes_by_allegator-d4ll8lp.jpg620px-Royal_Thai_Police_officer.jpg

Arthur Conan Doyle every time.

[Alwyn]

The Guardian story you quote is interesting. Most English will remember the Plebgate case which is a fair comment, top police working as attack dogs for certain politicians, a disgrace by anybody's standards. Most of the other stuff in his 330 page report he claimed to have in front of them are regarding brutality, false arrest (usually people who got arrested and subsequently released when fresh evidence came to light), racism (seems the racism thing goes the other way now, if you're a Muslim do what you want, if you're white, you're in trouble), none of it really corruption.

I agree with you BUT,

It becomes corruption, the moment someone 'higher up' tries to cover up mistakes or incompetence and their colleagues 'go along' with the cover up.

Hopefully there will come a time when all police, worldwide, put the law before each other.

I'll drink to that!

[minikev]

I don't see why people are getting personal about this.Actually I see that as an insult to what we are discussing. It's not a Thai coppers Vs English coppers either it's simply to make sure all facts and leads are followed so the real animals that committed this crime are brought to justice.

The British police are here to observe the way the case has been handled. The Thai police have pretty much closed the folder and are presenting their case to the prosecutors. The prosecutors are asking them to iron out a few facts before they take the case to court. It would seem it is done and dusted from the Thai police perspective.

It seems like there were other leads that could have been followed to us outsiders and for that reason we have doubt. Perhaps the Thai police's case is so solid we will be proved wrong. Perhaps the Brit police will point out something that was overlooked.

I think it will be quiet for a few days as they exchange ideas and information.

My gut feeling is that the 2 accused didn't do it and then all the other information we were given points to only one place. That however is just a gut feeling. I trust the Brit police to report honestly on what they find. We all pushed for them to come and now they are here we should wait for their report.

[japsportscarmad]

Actually in this case I don't and couldn't blame the officer who shot him that sounds cruel but the country was on edge and people were scared. He did what he thought best at the time and it was the right decision under the circumstances and he was let down by his command chain. And the guy should not have been in the UK he was illigal hence he ran which was his fault. What I would ask is why they ever let him get to the tube in the first place as were following him and where and who they got their intelligence from to suggest he was a terrorist suspect.

[japsportscarmad]

I don't see why people are getting personal about this.Actually I see that as an insult to what we are discussing. It's not a Thai coppers Vs English coppers either it's simply to make sure all facts and leads are followed so the real animals that committed this crime are brought to justice.

The British police are here to observe the way the case has been handled. The Thai police have pretty much closed the folder and are presenting their case to the prosecutors. The prosecutors are asking them to iron out a few facts before they take the case to court. It would seem it is done and dusted from the Thai police perspective.

It seems like there were other leads that could have been followed to us outsiders and for that reason we have doubt. Perhaps the Thai police's case is so solid we will be proved wrong. Perhaps the Brit police will point out something that was overlooked.

I think it will be quiet for a few days as they exchange ideas and information.

My gut feeling is that the 2 accused didn't do it and then all the other information we were given points to only one place. That however is just a gut feeling. I trust the Brit police to report honestly on what they find. We all pushed for them to come and now they are here we should wait for their report.

I couldn't really disagree with what you say at all very sensible.

[japsportscarmad]

Hmm lets see what is done and what is suggested, the British Police may come up with something but I am sure even as casual observers of the situation there seem to be leads that may have been prudent to follow at the very least. It is as well possible the two are guilty and the police do have good evidence and have not used torture or other such methods to ensure a confession it is!I must admit on the video of the reenactment it did look like one police officer was showing the suspect what to do. I do love the crime reenactments they do here very very good, with the suspects in bullet proof vests and helmets sooooo cool.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[sweatalot]

The police seem to think that the "confession" is not necessary because the DNA will provide all the necessary proof. What they dont realise or at least not saying is that a smart lawyer only has to cast doubt on the way the DNA was collected, its security in storage or the possibility of contamination and it will be thrown out of court along with any chance of a conviction.

Hopefully you are right.

But don't forget:

TIT

[kcirtapyelrah]

Don't be confused these guys are pro's even if just observing they will see a lot that matters. It's what they do.

So, they criticize the procedures and then what?

another couple of nails in the Thai police coffins and strides towards truth and hopefully justice.

[japsportscarmad]

Gentlemen. Place your bets!!

new_sherlock_holmes_by_allegator-d4ll8lp.jpg620px-Royal_Thai_Police_officer.jpg

Arthur Conan Doyle every time.

His uniform looks a tad tight old chap, can't be easy investigating a major murder case in that uniform.