Honda PCX v Yamaha N Max

[Just Curious]

Did a search and didn't find anything relevant in the forum. Opinions, comparisons, from learned forum members on these bikes which appear to be similarly priced and in direct competition?

Many thanks

[mihalis]

Love my PCX 150... Comfy, great economy..

[Just1Voice]

Love the PCX, but hate the seat. lol

[maximillian]

Unfortunately I haven't seen the N-Max in real yet, but from the broschure it looks great.

Presently I am riding a Yamaha Exciter 150 cc, very happy with it but want to have the seat altered.

The Exciter is a bit more like a bike than a scooter

The PCX is great as all Hondas are. What I don't like about the PCX is the seating position.

Don't decide on either one before you had the chance to test ride them.

[Thailaw]

Unfortunately I haven't seen the N-Max in real yet, but from the broschure it looks great.

Presently I am riding a Yamaha Exciter 150 cc, very happy with it but want to have the seat altered.

The Exciter is a bit more like a bike than a scooter

The PCX is great as all Hondas are. What I don't like about the PCX is the seating position.

Don't decide on either one before you had the chance to test ride them.

The N Max looks like a clone of the PCX, albeit not nearly as good looking as the PCX. Even the seats look to be identical -- if you can't beat them, copy them! The last good Yamaha was the Nouvo Elegance, and its been all "down hill" since. All else equal, I would go with the PCX, given the better durability and reliability of Honda and the fact that there is a Honda repair shop next to every 7/11, and parts are easy to get should you need one. Yamaha has not been especially loyal to its Tri-city owners, as few as there are, and getting parts for an orphan may be difficult in the future. Not sure I'd be comfortable with a new entry by Yamaha. As noted, if you can find a N Max rental, test both and see if the performance of the Yamaha is enough better than the PCX to justify owning it -- unlikely, but possible. Not much information on the price in Thailand yet, but I did see that "The Yamaha Nmax also features disc brakes front and rear with ABS as standard, .... The Yamaha Nmax costs 27.4 million Indonesian Rupiahs (about 62,500 THB)", so if it will be offered in Thailand at that price, it will be about B10-B12,000 less than the PCX, which might be enough to move some people from the PCX to the N Max. I had 2 PCXs -- first the 125 and then the 150, and really liked them both. I upgraded to a Forza which is far better (and bigger) than the PCX, but for a smaller scooter, you just can't do better than the PCX IMHO.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Thailaw

[NoshowJones]

Yamahas don't keep their value as good as Honda, it certainly applies to Yamaha Fino vs Honda Click.

[thailand49]

Not surprise the Yamaha looks like the PCX, the PCX is the most popular bike also top of list for being stolen. Regarding the seat you can replace it with after market more of a flat even without the big dip or separator from the driver.

Edited September 29, 2015 by thailand49

[bazza40]

Hondas of any capacity seem to be more popular than Yamahas here, perhaps that's a function of better marketing.

If you want to be sensible and not ruled by fashion, IMHO a secondhand Yamaha with low mileage (< 10 K Km) is probably the best value for money.

[pogal]

I have a PCX and had to change the tires immediately because it would slide if it touched any wet surface. Many other people told me the same thing. Michelin tires seem to fix the problem. Seat is terrible too. Otherwise it is a nice ride.

[Thailaw]

Hondas of any capacity seem to be more popular than Yamahas here, perhaps that's a function of better marketing.

If you want to be sensible and not ruled by fashion, IMHO a secondhand Yamaha with low mileage (< 10 K Km) is probably the best value for money.

"Better marketing"? How about "better quality and durability". And, if you want the best value for money, when new models come out, the prices on the old models falls significantly. The Nouvo Elegance was a good bike 6+ years ago, but I certainly wouldn't want one now (not even fuel injected). So, for best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125, which have prices in the mid 30's -- great value IMHO. And you get a bike with a similar design to, and looks better than, the N Max, and most important -- it's a HONDA!

[macknife]

Yamahas don't keep their value as good as Honda, it certainly applies to Yamaha Fino vs Honda Click.

A Fino is about 10,000B cheaper than a Click and should be compared with a Scoopy. Click's are in competition with the Mio and 2nd hand prices look similar to me.

I agree the PCX is a great bike and looks better but...if this Nmax is sold around 65,000B with ABS compared to around 75,000B with no ABS on the PCX then it's definitely a good deal. When are they coming to Thailand? as I have never seen one yet.

[phitsanulokjohn]

My Pcx is very smooth and comfortable,with a classy predictable Honda feel.I am simply not and never been a fan of the combined braking system though.The one thing for sure is out of all the top 4 Jap makers,the Honda will always hold it's value the most.Haven't had a chance to view in person the n-max but I do like the look of the exciter,does good top speed and has a really nice large rear tyre.All the best very with your purchase whatever you decide and stay safe.

[bazza40]

Hondas of any capacity seem to be more popular than Yamahas here, perhaps that's a function of better marketing.

If you want to be sensible and not ruled by fashion, IMHO a secondhand Yamaha with low mileage (< 10 K Km) is probably the best value for money.

"Better marketing"? How about "better quality and durability". And, if you want the best value for money, when new models come out, the prices on the old models falls significantly. The Nouvo Elegance was a good bike 6+ years ago, but I certainly wouldn't want one now (not even fuel injected). So, for best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125, which have prices in the mid 30's -- great value IMHO. And you get a bike with a similar design to, and looks better than, the N Max, and most important -- it's a HONDA!

I've had two Yamahas, never had a problem with reliability/durability/call it what you will. Given that most of the posters on this thread seem to be complaining about the PCX 125's seating position, better quality is a dubious proposition. That's assuming you define quality as meeting the customer's expectation.

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting; however, your statement "best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125" seems to support my opinion that it's better in terms of value for money to buy a low mileage secondhand bike, rather than new, due to the price drop. Secondhand Yamahas appear to be 5 - 10 K cheaper than the corresponding Honda. So the discussion comes back to whether Honda is better than Yamaha. They are both good brands; however, permit me to doubt Honda is 5-10K better than Yamaha secondhand. If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

It's a bit like the marketing of Isuzu pickups here, most popular brand. In places such as America or Australia, Isuzu is either non-existent or regarded as agricultural.

[BSJ]

I was in the local Yamaha dealer a few days ago and asked about the NMax...and I got that look...you know the one: What you talking about crazy farang!

I like the idea of having a disk brake on the rear, ABS I am not so sure about!

[Namplik]

Hondas of any capacity seem to be more popular than Yamahas here, perhaps that's a function of better marketing.

If you want to be sensible and not ruled by fashion, IMHO a secondhand Yamaha with low mileage (< 10 K Km) is probably the best value for money.

"Better marketing"? How about "better quality and durability". And, if you want the best value for money, when new models come out, the prices on the old models falls significantly. The Nouvo Elegance was a good bike 6+ years ago, but I certainly wouldn't want one now (not even fuel injected). So, for best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125, which have prices in the mid 30's -- great value IMHO. And you get a bike with a similar design to, and looks better than, the N Max, and most important -- it's a HONDA!

I've had two Yamahas, never had a problem with reliability/durability/call it what you will. Given that most of the posters on this thread seem to be complaining about the PCX 125's seating position, better quality is a dubious proposition. That's assuming you define quality as meeting the customer's expectation.

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting; however, your statement "best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125" seems to support my opinion that it's better in terms of value for money to buy a low mileage secondhand bike, rather than new, due to the price drop. Secondhand Yamahas appear to be 5 - 10 K cheaper than the corresponding Honda. So the discussion comes back to whether Honda is better than Yamaha. They are both good brands; however, permit me to doubt Honda is 5-10K better than Yamaha secondhand. If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

It's a bit like the marketing of Isuzu pickups here, most popular brand. In places such as America or Australia, Isuzu is either non-existent or regarded as agricultural.

PCX are 150 ccm.... And about the seat, its no problem to have it rebuild at some shop specializing on motorcycle seats.

[Thailaw]

I've had two Yamahas, never had a problem with reliability/durability/call it what you will. Given that most of the posters on this thread seem to be complaining about the PCX 125's seating position, better quality is a dubious proposition. That's assuming you define quality as meeting the customer's expectation.

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting; however, your statement "best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125" seems to support my opinion that it's better in terms of value for money to buy a low mileage secondhand bike, rather than new, due to the price drop. Secondhand Yamahas appear to be 5 - 10 K cheaper than the corresponding Honda. So the discussion comes back to whether Honda is better than Yamaha. They are both good brands; however, permit me to doubt Honda is 5-10K better than Yamaha secondhand. If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

It's a bit like the marketing of Isuzu pickups here, most popular brand. In places such as America or Australia, Isuzu is either non-existent or regarded as agricultural.

The earlier PCXs, both the 125 and the 150, had a "bump" in the seat behind the driver that made it difficult to slide back in the seat and was literally a pain in the ass if the driver was 6' or taller. For the average Thai driver, it was probably perfect. Most people just removed it and had their PCX seat recovered -- problem solved. The bump is now gone on the most recent model of the PCX -- buyers spoke and Honda listened. There are no second hand Yamahas like the PCX/N Max, so if you want that style in a second hand bike for "better value", the PCX is your only choice, and it is IMHO a fine choice. B5 - 10k is equivalent to $140 to 280, which doesn't get my notice in the decision of which bike to buy (once I do decide what bike I want to buy, I do try to get it for the best price, which is entirely different). If B5 - 10 k can push you from one bike to another that you like less (even slightly), I feel sorry for you. I don't buy used bikes ever, but if I did, I would gladly pay an extra B5,000+ for the reliability and quality that Honda provides over Yamaha, which becomes even more important as the bike gets older. I don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere, speaking little to no Thai, and hope I'll get my bike repaired and be on my way with minimum problems and delay. If your bridge is anything like your cheap used Yamaha, you can keep it with my good luck and sympathy. I don't want either. And you will get most/all of that B5 - 10k price difference back at the time of sale, as Hondas hold their resale value much better than Yamahas. In fact, date of purchase/sale, condition/mileage, etc. equal, the cost of ownership (the difference between buy and sell price) is generally higher for Yamaha over Honda, no matter when you buy the motorbike.

The OP is considering bikes in excess of B60K, which is in the upper end of the scooter market. He could buy a new Click or a Fino for mid 40's, so I assume that, unlike you, the price or saving a few thousand Baht is not his most important consideration, and he is willing to pay a bit more to get what he likes -- good for him. He will definitely like the new PCX should he decide to buy one, and he'd likely be happy with a used low mileage PCX if he is willing to take the time and effort to hunt for one.

And the Toyota Vigo is far and away the highest selling pickup truck in Thailand, not Isuzu. Oh, and in case you didn't notice, most of Thailand is "agricultural".

Edited September 29, 2015 by Thailaw

[laowai1960]

.

[macknife]

I've had two Yamahas, never had a problem with reliability/durability/call it what you will. Given that most of the posters on this thread seem to be complaining about the PCX 125's seating position, better quality is a dubious proposition. That's assuming you define quality as meeting the customer's expectation.

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting; however, your statement "best value for money, look at a low mileage PCX 125" seems to support my opinion that it's better in terms of value for money to buy a low mileage secondhand bike, rather than new, due to the price drop. Secondhand Yamahas appear to be 5 - 10 K cheaper than the corresponding Honda. So the discussion comes back to whether Honda is better than Yamaha. They are both good brands; however, permit me to doubt Honda is 5-10K better than Yamaha secondhand. If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

It's a bit like the marketing of Isuzu pickups here, most popular brand. In places such as America or Australia, Isuzu is either non-existent or regarded as agricultural.

The earlier PCXs, both the 125 and the 150, had a "bump" in the seat behind the driver that made it difficult to slide back in the seat and was literally a pain in the ass if the driver was 6' or taller. For the average Thai driver, it was probably perfect. Most people just removed it and had their PCX seat recovered -- problem solved. The bump is now gone on the most recent model of the PCX -- buyers spoke and Honda listened. There are no second hand Yamahas like the PCX/N Max, so if you want that style in a second hand bike for "better value", the PCX is your only choice, and it is IMHO a fine choice. B5 - 10k is equivalent to $140 to 280, which doesn't get my notice in the decision of which bike to buy (once I do decide what bike I want to buy, I do try to get it for the best price, which is entirely different). If B5 - 10 k can push you from one bike to another that you like less (even slightly), I feel sorry for you. I don't buy used bikes ever, but if I did, I would gladly pay an extra B5,000+ for the reliability and quality that Honda provides over Yamaha, which becomes even more important as the bike gets older. I don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere, speaking little to no Thai, and hope I'll get my bike repaired and be on my way with minimum problems and delay. If your bridge is anything like your cheap used Yamaha, you can keep it with my good luck and sympathy. I don't want either. And you will get most/all of that B5 - 10k price difference back at the time of sale, as Hondas hold their resale value much better than Yamahas. In fact, date of purchase/sale, condition/mileage, etc. equal, the cost of ownership (the difference between buy and sell price) is generally higher for Yamaha over Honda, no matter when you buy the motorbike.

The OP is considering bikes in excess of B60K, which is in the upper end of the scooter market. He could buy a new Click or a Fino for mid 40's, so I assume that, unlike you, the price or saving a few thousand Baht is not his most important consideration, and he is willing to pay a bit more to get what he likes -- good for him. He will definitely like the new PCX should he decide to buy one, and he'd likely be happy with a used low mileage PCX if he is willing to take the time and effort to hunt for one.

And the Toyota Vigo is far and away the highest selling pickup truck in Thailand, not Isuzu. Oh, and in case you didn't notice, most of Thailand is "agricultural".

You must really like the PCX.

Thais may desire a Honda over a Yamaha or could it be there is just way more Honda shops around?

Either way, it doesn't matter. Yes maybe a Honda holds it's resale value better but I don't think you can call a Yamaha scooter unreliable in any way or say Honda is better quality. There are literally millions of Fino's, Mio's and Nouvo's all over this country and I've seen many very old. In fact you are much more likely to see old Mio's and Nouvo's being ridden around than Honda's. Yamaha were the first to offer fully automatic scooters in Thailand. The Fino is probably the number 1 modded scooter in this country. So while there may not be as many Yamaha dealerships around as Honda, any backstreet mechanic can repair a Yamaha scooter so I seriously doubt you'll have any problems getting it repaired even in the middle of nowhere.

So please stop the crap, yes you can say Honda has a better resale value but the rest is rubbish. Just in case you think I'm biased, I own a Honda and it's great.

Edited September 29, 2015 by macknife

[Longtooth]

Sat on the N Max at the dealers yesterday. It felt better than the PCX for static riding position. More room for my 6'. I was told 67,000 in Chiang Rai. 117 k/hr tested on U tube, stock. Anti-lock works well according to most reports. I would vote for N Max no question. Off the track a little, I would pull off the silly little windscreen and put a modified small basket in front, like I did with my Yamaha Spark 135, which is still going great after 50,000 + km.

[bazza40]

The OP is considering bikes in excess of B60K, which is in the upper end of the scooter market. He could buy a new Click or a Fino for mid 40's, so I assume that, unlike you, the price or saving a few thousand Baht is not his most important consideration, and he is willing to pay a bit more to get what he likes -- good for him. He will definitely like the new PCX should he decide to buy one, and he'd likely be happy with a used low mileage PCX if he is willing to take the time and effort to hunt for one.

And the Toyota Vigo is far and away the highest selling pickup truck in Thailand, not Isuzu. Oh, and in case you didn't notice, most of Thailand is "agricultural".

"Agricultural" in motoring parlance means coarse, lacking refinement.

[papa al]

Yamahas don't keep their value as good as Honda, it certainly applies to Yamaha Fino vs Honda Click.

How many years have you been beating that drum?

All your purchase/sell decisions on the fino were "not smart."

Hence your generazations from the single anecdote lacks validity.

(But funny!)

[NoshowJones]

Yamahas don't keep their value as good as Honda, it certainly applies to Yamaha Fino vs Honda Click.

How many years have you been beating that drum?

All your purchase/sell decisions on the fino were "not smart."

Hence your generazations from the single anecdote lacks validity.

(But funny!)

I will keep beating drums whenever any subject I feel strongly about comes up.

The more posters I can reach about it the better, there are more and more posters

on Thaivisa all the time.

[oval]

The Nmax looks fugly

[Henryford]

I've had 2 Nouvos and now an SX and i always thought the Yamahas seemed more robust and solid than the equivalent Hondas. Certainly better suited to a farang, with 2 rear shocks etc. I really like the look of the NMAX and will probably get one even though i have never fancied a PCX. Must be a Yamaha fan. Sounds like they are in the shops now.

[bobbin]

Sat on the N Max at the dealers yesterday. It felt better than the PCX for static riding position. More room for my 6'. I was told 67,000 in Chiang Rai. 117 k/hr tested on U tube, stock. Anti-lock works well according to most reports. I would vote for N Max no question. Off the track a little, I would pull off the silly little windscreen and put a modified small basket in front, like I did with my Yamaha Spark 135, which is still going great after 50,000 + km.

Well that would be an excellent way to ruin the looks of the bike...not to mention the fact those front baskets are so 20th Century. Unsafe as well, since you lose your lighting at night if there is anything of size in the basket.

[Dublin]

Cant go wrong with a Honda in Thailand,Ive had the 125 and 150 PCX never any trouble, there are a few threads here where the PCX has been ridden for 100's of K's never an issue... stick with Honda if you plan to trade up or in after a few years .....

[Thailaw]

And the Toyota Vigo is far and away the highest selling pickup truck in Thailand, not Isuzu. Oh, and in case you didn't notice, most of Thailand is "agricultural".

"Agricultural" in motoring parlance means coarse, lacking refinement.

Your posts are factually inaccurate and simply wrong on all counts. Searching the internet, I cannot find a single reference to the use of the word "agricultural" when referring to a pickup truck in any way -- none. Had you said "industrial" (which I have used referring to the Isuzu pickup in another earlier thread when referring to its appearance) connoting "no frills, your post would at least be understandable -- nonetheless wrong. I am no fan of the Isuzu trucks, but they are certainly as "refined" as the other pickups in Thailand, and offer all of the creature comforts available from Toyota, Mitsu, Mazda, etc. And the Isuzu D-Max certainly is not the "most popular brand", which status goes to the Toyota Vigo by about 50% more sales than the Isuzu. Isuzu has a reputation like the Eveready Bunny -- it just keeps on going -- and for rural Thais (and many westerners living in Thailand)that is their primary consideration in deciding which truck to buy. And, IMHO, the same is true for the decision to buy a motorbike, which is why the Wave (at least as of 2103, which is the last information that I have) is the number 1 selling motorbike in Thailand -- people believe it is "indestructible".

And your comments about Yamaha vs Honda motor scooters are equally (if not more) wrong/inaccurate. One of the problems in Thailand is that used motor vehicles sell at a price that is too close to the price of new -- that is changing with cars due to the Government's "first time buyer" scheme, which put many put many cars into the hands of people that could not afford them and, as a result, more used cars into the market, which appears to have caused the price of used cars to fall relative to new. But, with motorbikes, why by a used motorbike with an unknown history of how it was driven or maintained, when you can buy a new one for only a few thousand Baht more? Most knowledgeable people recommend buying new because the price difference between new and used does not in most cases justify buying used. Of course, if you are buying from a friend and you know the history of the bike, the calculus may be very different.

And the price of the motorbike is not the relevant consideration -- cost of ownership is what should be considered, which you miss or don't understand at all. You will pay more for a Honda, but you will also sell it for more when it is time to sell. The cost of owning a Honda for 3 years is on average less than the cost of owning a comparable Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki even thought the Honda may (likely will) cost more to buy. And the foolish posters here will argue that this is because of "marketing" or other selling ploys/gimmicks by Honda, but buyers are not stupid -- they know which bike will give them better, less hassle service -- and they know they get a better bike from Honda and are willing to pay a bit more for it -- full stop. If you think that you are saving money buying a Yamaha, you are not. If you think that you are saving money by buying used, you are, but not enough to justify buying a used bike, at least not in most cases. Even the longer warranty on a new bike is typically enough to justify the purchase of new over used.

[Pinot]

I've done a couple of reviews of the 2015 PCX. One has over 200,000 views. I appreciate the PCX everytime I ride it. Perfect for riding around this beach town.

I've never seen the Yamaha. My other bike is a YNE. Excellent bike that doesn't hold its value. I'd wait on the Yamaha. Never a good idea to buy a new model.

https://youtu.be/rasFhzPx0EU

https://youtu.be/fqXk1rpQpS4

[bazza40]

And the Toyota Vigo is far and away the highest selling pickup truck in Thailand, not Isuzu. Oh, and in case you didn't notice, most of Thailand is "agricultural".

"Agricultural" in motoring parlance means coarse, lacking refinement.

Your posts are factually inaccurate and simply wrong on all counts. Searching the internet, I cannot find a single reference to the use of the word "agricultural" when referring to a pickup truck in any way -- none. Had you said "industrial" (which I have used referring to the Isuzu pickup in another earlier thread when referring to its appearance) connoting "no frills, your post would at least be understandable -- nonetheless wrong. I am no fan of the Isuzu trucks, but they are certainly as "refined" as the other pickups in Thailand, and offer all of the creature comforts available from Toyota, Mitsu, Mazda, etc. And the Isuzu D-Max certainly is not the "most popular brand", which status goes to the Toyota Vigo by about 50% more sales than the Isuzu. Isuzu has a reputation like the Eveready Bunny -- it just keeps on going -- and for rural Thais (and many westerners living in Thailand)that is their primary consideration in deciding which truck to buy. And, IMHO, the same is true for the decision to buy a motorbike, which is why the Wave (at least as of 2103, which is the last information that I have) is the number 1 selling motorbike in Thailand -- people believe it is "indestructible".

And your comments about Yamaha vs Honda motor scooters are equally (if not more) wrong/inaccurate. One of the problems in Thailand is that used motor vehicles sell at a price that is too close to the price of new -- that is changing with cars due to the Government's "first time buyer" scheme, which put many put many cars into the hands of people that could not afford them and, as a result, more used cars into the market, which appears to have caused the price of used cars to fall relative to new. But, with motorbikes, why by a used motorbike with an unknown history of how it was driven or maintained, when you can buy a new one for only a few thousand Baht more? Most knowledgeable people recommend buying new because the price difference between new and used does not in most cases justify buying used. Of course, if you are buying from a friend and you know the history of the bike, the calculus may be very different.

And the price of the motorbike is not the relevant consideration -- cost of ownership is what should be considered, which you miss or don't understand at all. You will pay more for a Honda, but you will also sell it for more when it is time to sell. The cost of owning a Honda for 3 years is on average less than the cost of owning a comparable Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki even thought the Honda may (likely will) cost more to buy. And the foolish posters here will argue that this is because of "marketing" or other selling ploys/gimmicks by Honda, but buyers are not stupid -- they know which bike will give them better, less hassle service -- and they know they get a better bike from Honda and are willing to pay a bit more for it -- full stop. If you think that you are saving money buying a Yamaha, you are not. If you think that you are saving money by buying used, you are, but not enough to justify buying a used bike, at least not in most cases. Even the longer warranty on a new bike is typically enough to justify the purchase of new over used.

My my, you do go on. I'm wondering whether you read any motoring magazines, because the term "agricultural" can be encountered in some of them.

As I said before, I've had 2 Yamahas - a Fino in Australia, and a TTX here.

The Fino I bought in Australia for $2300 with 6500 km on the odometer. 3 years later I sold it for $2100, with 9500 on the odometer. New price $4500.

The TTX I bought here for 23,000 baht with 7000 km on the odometer two years ago, city driving only, now 9800 km. New price 45000 baht.

Neither of them have missed a beat during my ownership.

"Most knowledgeable people"? With cars, pickups and motorbikes, the first year of ownership is the most expensive in terms of depreciation.

On just about any money website, you will find one of the recommended strategies for wealth preservation is to buy low-mileage second-hand vehicles. Then drive the vehicle until it's worn out. Warren Buffett drives a ten year old car, and he's one of the richest men on the planet.

You appear to be very enthusiastic about your subject, and I don't have a problem with you liking Hondas. I'm a Mitsubishi fan myself, underrated engineering. However, your enthusiasm doesn't seem to be accompanied by analytical thinking, just fallacious arguments.

[northernphil]

I have a PCX and had to change the tires immediately because it would slide if it touched any wet surface. Many other people told me the same thing. Michelin tires seem to fix the problem. Seat is terrible too. Otherwise it is a nice ride.

I suppose you had IRC tyres. My first 125 had those tyres , second set I fitted Michellin. The PCX 150 I have now arrived with Dunlop and when they wore out I had Dunlop fitted again. A great scoot , loads of fun.