Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[61guitarman61]

It also remains to be seen what shape everything will take due to events of the past month. This could cause substantial changes in many ways in Thailand, not only regarding tourism/retirement. Another 6 to 12 months will be very telling.

[digibum]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

Totally agree with i claudius.  In this age of social media there's no way the government is  going to boot out thousands of farangs from some countries while at the same time allowing farangs from select other countries to stay.  As i claudius said, imagine all the weepy news stories.  And all the heart-tugging videos that would be posted--and reposted.  Not really the way to raise your image in the world.  And, yes, the government DOES care what the world thinks--look what happened when Bill Gates made a harmless offhand joke about the overhead wires in Bangkok.  Suddenly, it's time to bury those darn wires!

 

555555555555555555555555

 

Bill Gates made a comment that embarrassed Thailand . . . might have had an impact on tourism.  

 

The Thai government would simply say that due to the cancellation of the TPP that they can no longer afford to take more indigent foreigners who are not cared for back in their home countries.  They would find a few Brits or Trump fans who would rant about immigrants getting better treatment than citizens back in their home countries and the whole argument would pivot away from what Thailand is doing and why people can't survive on a government pension back home and why are they all flocking to beautiful Thailand where the people are so poor already.  

 

Discussion deflected.  Fire up the deportation busses.  

 

[digibum]

2 hours ago, Chopperboy said:

The whole infrastructure and security system run by the government - without that it would be like living in Africa. You probably think that happens by magic and is provided for free somehow. But it comes at a huge cost, and not one borne by the expat retirees living here effectively tax free.

 

Agreed.  The price of local rice is subsidized, the price of petrol, etc, etc.  All of this is done so that the poor people don't take to the streets and start rioting.  

 

If you buy anything that had to travel by truck you are benefiting.  If you eat anything grown locally, you're benefitting.  

 

It's all interconnected.  

[digibum]

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

Any retiree,living here even if he pays no tax,more than likely supports a family, whether it is a wife and children ,girlfriend etc ,many also help in this way by supporting poor relatives that they have in rural parts ,I myself am lucky in that my wife earns a good living and does not have to support anyone ,but no way would I put 3 million in a Thai bank account and just leave it ,and while not poor my pension is less than 100000 baht a month,as I said hours ago ,even the Thai govt are not going to throw out thousands of aging westerners ,leaving their family,s alone in hardship and destitution,

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk
 

 

Uhm, you forget that those retirees already made a substantial transfer of wealth to Thailand and are no longer of value.  Many of those Baan Farang homes occupied by retirees with their Thai wife are in the name of the Thai wife since it's not legal for farangs to own land.  

 

Many retirees forgot the first rule of Thailand:  Never be worth more dead than alive.  

 

Once they signed over a chunk of cash to the misses and declared it was her money so they could purchase a home, their utility to Thailand became greatly diminished.  

 

Thailand simply wants to keep the ones who still have more money to milk.  

[digibum]

36 minutes ago, 61guitarman61 said:

Well, Mr T, (mental picture of the shirt unbuttoned to your navel to reveal a gold chain forest type of guy), You are not going to spend more than you are right now, by choice anyway. What will happen here is that those long term low class "penny pinchers" who are forced to leave and find Cambodia or Laos will also leave a huge financial hole in the nearly 15% GDP tourist trade in Thailand. Your condo, your food, your car and fuel, hotels, and 300 baht yuppie beers will go up substantially. YOU, Mr Gold Chain, will be expected to fill that void out of your monthly stipend. And after the reality of their failed attempt at raking in more revenue through the false assumption that all farang are in your gold chain crowd by default, they will then amend their 10 year visa with shorter terms and new higher fees etc... Good luck to you unless you are truly in the hiso status you like to think you are in. Your days will be numbered as well. Cheers. (You might try to lower your nose a bit before it gets cut off by a ceiling fan)

 

In the words of Donald Trump:  WRONG!  

 

First off, most of what retirees spend in Thailand isn't factored into tourism numbers.  So don't compare it to the 15% of GDP because most expats are living local and aren't staying in hotels (which count in tourism numbers) or booking overpriced tourist packages (which count in the tourism numbers).  

 

Sure, retirees take trips but the percentage of what retirees spend as a part of Thailand's tourism revenues is rather paltry in comparison to actual tourists.   

 

Much like the idiots on back to back to back to back tourist visas who work illegally and pay no taxes, your estimation of your impact on Thailand's finances is grossly inflated.  What retirees contribute to the Thai economy wouldn't even pay for a single Chinese submarine.  

 

 

[pegman]

18 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

In the words of Donald Trump:  WRONG!  

 

First off, most of what retirees spend in Thailand isn't factored into tourism numbers.  So don't compare it to the 15% of GDP because most expats are living local and aren't staying in hotels (which count in tourism numbers) or booking overpriced tourist packages (which count in the tourism numbers).  

 

Sure, retirees take trips but the percentage of what retirees spend as a part of Thailand's tourism revenues is rather paltry in comparison to actual tourists.   

 

Much like the idiots on back to back to back to back tourist visas who work illegally and pay no taxes, your estimation of your impact on Thailand's finances is grossly inflated.  What retirees contribute to the Thai economy wouldn't even pay for a single Chinese submarine.  

 

 

You are forgetting the hit that Singha or Chang beer companies would take.

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

 

Yes, but your arguments are about fairness.  Fairness doesn't exist.  If life was fair I would be better looking and much richer.  :-)  

 

You're also not going to convince me (or anyone else for that matter) based on the common sense argument because the Thai government has repeatedly shown that common sense is not a prerequisite for public service or office.  

 

Given that your two main arguments are fairness and common sense, well, in Thailand you've already lost. 

You are forgetting one other argument, you seem to think Thai officialdom are stupid, but they aren't. That's why I doubt this to be the only option going forward. It is clear the revenue from retired persons will decrease and yes they have certainly figured that out already.

 

Can you even come up with one immigration requirement/rule change in the last decade or so that has led to a mass excodus of immigrants ?

[digibum]

7 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

You are forgetting one other argument, you seem to think Thai officialdom are stupid, but they aren't. That's why I doubt this to be the only option going forward. It is clear the revenue from retired persons will decrease and yes they have certainly figured that out already.

 

Can you even come up with one immigration requirement/rule change in the last decade or so that has led to a mass excodus of immigrants ?

 

No but I can think of plenty of changes that TVF members claimed would result in a mass exodus of foreigners though said exodus never occurred. Such is the nature of cash strapped people living in third world countries.  Every 5 baht change in the price of beer will lead to a mass exodus.   

 

Most at people are going to get grandfathered or they'll find a way to fake the requirements.  Some might be forced to leave but the message should now be clear that Thailand is no longer welcoming those who didn't adequately plan for retirement.  

 

In fact that should be the new TVF tag line.  Thailand:  No longer cheap.  No longer the LOS. Just another Asian country ruled by people bent on turning it back into a third world country.  Comments Welcome!  

 

Either that or:   Make Thailand Third-World Again.  

 

Though there may be trademark issues with that one. Oh, who am I kidding?  Thailand doesn't care about IP laws.  

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

No but I can think of plenty of changes that TVF members claimed would result in a mass exodus of foreigners though said exodus never occurred. Such is the nature of cash strapped people living in third world countries.  Every 5 baht change in the price of beer will lead to a mass exodus.   

 

Most at people are going to get grandfathered or they'll find a way to fake the requirements.  Some might be forced to leave but the message should now be clear that Thailand is no longer welcoming those who didn't adequately plan for retirement.  

 

In fact that should be the new TVF tag line.  Thailand:  No longer cheap.  No longer the LOS. Just another Asian country ruled by people bent on turning it back into a third world country.  Comments Welcome!  

 

Either that or:   Make Thailand Third-World Again.  

 

Though there may be trademark issues with that one. Oh, who am I kidding?  Thailand doesn't care about IP laws.  

Right, I believe this to be the only option forward when it is in black and white. So far this just looks like an additional option. If it IS the only option, the way people are grandfathered in (number of years already here for instance) will determine how big the excodus is.

 

What is pretty clear is that these new requirements will prove to be a bridge to far for quite a large percentage of retired people already here. And Thailand will see a sharp decrease of new applications, as I already said, people with that kind of money are very likely to not even considering Thailand for reasons already stated.

 

 

[digibum]

23 minutes ago, pegman said:

You are forgetting the hit that Singha or Chang beer companies would take.

 

Viva LEO!!!!!!

 

 

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

Viva LEO!!!!!!

 

 

leo is brewed by  Boon Rawd, the same brewery that also brews Singha :)

[digibum]

28 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

leo is brewed by  Boon Rawd, the same brewery that also brews Singha :)

 

Brewed?   I was under the impression they simply filled bottles with dog urine and splashed a little grain alcohol on top.  

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

Brewed?   I was under the impression they simply filled bottles with dog urine and splashed a little grain alcohol on top.  

I wouldn't know, I refuse to drink Singha, and rarely touch Leo. Give me Beer Lao any day :)

[cedel]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 0:23 PM, humqdpf said:

According to the full article, visa holders would be expected to check in with immigration every 3 months.

 

But remember that you will still have to open up your social media and bank accounts for the authorities to scrutinise and most likely they will make the money conditions more and more difficult (earning 100,000 per year income or 3 million in the bank which you cannot touch). You will also have to have medical insurance that will provide $10,000 coverage.

 

And this is what we know so far, folks. It might be a lot of money and effort so as to avoid the regular visa run . . . 

you forgot the regular "retirement" visa 1 year, over 50 years; 800,000 baht , 20,000 € or $ and same report to immigration 5 minutes every 90 days...1900 baht every year so far..

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, digibum said:

 

<snip>

 

But that shouldn't be restricted to <snip2>

ThaiVisa.com is fun -- any time the Ministry of Foreign Affairs announces some new plan (although it isn't really clear right now what that plan is) the TV crowd comes in and tells the MoFA what they really should do.

[jeffcool]

Still about 15 years from retiring back in LOS with wifey, kids and the in-laws in Issan.....  Every day passing and reading on TV and the more I am wondering if it still a good idea to go back where i spend the 15 best years of me life..... And to the place  i used to call Paradise........

 

[MyFriend You]

On 11/22/2016 at 0:32 PM, LivinLOS said:

 

But why would anyone put themselves into such a precarious position.. 

 

If a country is only giving you <1 year at a time permissions to stay, who would sink all their eggs so deeply into that basket ?? 

Some don't have any other choice.........all their eggs are in this basket..........I see many overstays in the future..........

[d4291797]

The 'sting in the tail' re this 10 year proposal, is the 10,000 USD health insurance requirement!

Once retirees pass through 65 years of age ,this rockets in cost!

 

The 3,000,000 baht in the bank, would pale to insignificance ,compared with this cost.

In fact many folk would find this unobtainable .

 

Please correct me if I am wrong , but laying out 1,000,000 baht for a 20 year Elite Visa would have to be the only affordable option for elderly retirees.

[digibum]

53 minutes ago, jeffcool said:

Still about 15 years from retiring back in LOS with wifey, kids and the in-laws in Issan.....  Every day passing and reading on TV and the more I am wondering if it still a good idea to go back where i spend the 15 best years of me life..... And to the place  i used to call Paradise........

 

 

I think the biggest problem is that it's not the same place it was 15 years ago.  I know a lot of people say stuff like that all the time and change is inevitable but most of the change I've seen over the 15 - 20 years has been negative change.  

 

 

 

[jonclark]

12 hours ago, Chopperboy said:

Retirees living here should pay towards the countries running costs - simple as that. Why should a Thai business or Thai people pay so you can live here for free? The Tax or Fee should be annual and built into the cost of a retirement visa and I don't mean the current few thousand Baht it costs to renew.

 

 

But I think you're missing the point - by choosing to retire here, the retirees are paying towards the countries running costs. Their cash encourages businesses to open up to cater for their unique requirements. The tax those businesses pay (or should pay) is in part directly coming from the retirees. 

 

If you put in place a set fee - how is that fee determined - the median amount of tax per year per person? 10 - 30 % are the most common tax brackets used by individual - 10 - 30 % of the retirees income?? Or just 1'000 baht a year. Both will have detractors and proponents. 

[Wilsonandson]

Visa fee to be waived for 3 months for foreign tourists

http://thainews.prd.go.th/website_en/news/news_detail/WNECO5911240010001

Quote:-
The minister added that tourists with a long term visa would be allowed to stay in Thailand longer or from one year to 10 years. 
End Quote

Replacing the existing retirement visa?

[doctormann]

Certain posters seem to be of the opinion that retirees should not be allowed to live in Thailand because they are not paying income tax here.  They are of course paying VAT and are contributing to the Thai economy in other ways, and these are not insignificant, but this appears to of no importance to these posters.

 

As far as the income tax question is concerned, I would recommend that they do a quick internet search on 'Double Taxation Treaties', when they will find that many countries have such arrangements - the UK and Thailand are two such countries - whereby it is agreed between the respective governments that a citizen of one country, who is paying tax in that country but resides in the other, incurs no tax liability in the second country.

 

For example, UK retirees living in Thailand, who are paying UK income tax on their UK pensions - state or occupational - incur no tax liability in Thailand on those pension payments.  Likewise,  retired Thai citizens living in the UK and who pay income tax in Thailand from income derived there - if there are any - do not pay tax on that income in the UK.  If they were working in the UK then they would, of course, be liable for UK tax on that income.  Of course, UK retirees living in Thailand are not allowed to work so the question of paying Thai income tax does not arise.

 

Seems like a perfectly fair arrangement to me.  Of course, I would prefer to pay no tax in either country but that is not the issue here.

 

[MrMuddle]

I've read through several pages of this and am none the wiser.
Can someone from TV's admin or moderators please sum up EXACTLY what the position is ?
Are retirement visas going to be replaced ?
Is this new visa just another option ?
Is the medical expenses retirement for ALL retirees ?
Are people on the present retirement visa exempt from the new provisions ?
 

[i claudius]

8 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Uhm, you forget that those retirees already made a substantial transfer of wealth to Thailand and are no longer of value.  Many of those Baan Farang homes occupied by retirees with their Thai wife are in the name of the Thai wife since it's not legal for farangs to own land.  

 

Many retirees forgot the first rule of Thailand:  Never be worth more dead than alive.  

 

Once they signed over a chunk of cash to the misses and declared it was her money so they could purchase a home, their utility to Thailand became greatly diminished.  

 

Thailand simply wants to keep the ones who still have more money to milk.  

 

While i have met guys who have been ripped off ,its 99%of the time by stupid men who come here ,marry the first bar girl that says they love him and then he believes it and lavishes all his money on her , all of my friends are with wives who they have been with for donkeys years have sons and daughters in school or as in my case just left uni , my wife"owns" everything has my pin nos and has joint bank accounts with me in the UK ,i trust her with my life , to be blunt its people who post stuff like you that give Thailand and its women a bad name , you just post alarmist twaddle.

[jayboy]

Without commenting on the detail, the government's initiative seems sensible and is consistent with the approach taken by all administrations of different political stripes.

 

What strikes me is not the harshness but the gentle and even generous attitude of the Thai government in face of a widely held view among Thais that the country should not become a mass retirement destination for foreign retirees.Thailand has changed a great deal in recent decades and has become a great deal richer, and one indisputable fact is that it simply doesn't need to be a retirement destination.There is no national policy on foreign retirement, simply a series of ad hoc reactions to the influx.

 

The truth is no country - which doesn't need it - is all  that keen on an influx of foreigners.In Thailand the poorly educated, the beachcomber element, the financially insecure etc are over represented in the expat "community".Many were attracted by the sex, sea, cheap booze life.Thailand does not on the whole attract well educated, prosperous middle class groups as do France, Canada,Singapore etc.Of course there are some but not many - often people who worked for MNC s and stayed on.

 

It is for example absurd for a Brit who primarily relies on his state pension (or even a Brit whose state pension is a key part of his income) to think of retiring in Thailand.The problems of health insurance cannot be wished away by the elderly and the NHS may well not be the safety net some had assumed.The figure of Bt 100,000 per month seems very reasonable though my comment is that it should be the absolute minimum.Double would be better.

 

All of this has been coming for a long time.I think it would be wise to anticipate a greater focus by the government on the type of foreigner who is most welcome.It's not just about money: I suspect those contributing to a more vibrant society will be welcomed - artists, technology experts,professionals etc - but these are of course working categories.Rich retiress will always find a niche.The Thai Elite programme is of course a little absurd but it provides clues on government thinking.I have genuine compassion for those foreigners with Thai families who have few options.I hope they can be looked after but it's reasonable a line be drawn in the sand for newcomers

Edited November 24, 2016 by jayboy

[lothda]

What about 10 year extensions of stay for retired foreigners who already live in Thailand on the 1 year extension system?

[Naam]

8 hours ago, Naam said:

the retirees don't build or buy houses/condos? they don't provide employment? they don't have to pay VAT? they don't buy cars paying exorbitant import and excise duties? give me a break man! i'd like to compare what i have spend on indirect taxes during the last 12 years with the taxes a middle income Thai pays during a life time and for sure i'd be way ahead. the same applies to a Farang who worked in Thailand for decades if he didn't have a top job or was sent to Thailand by a foreign company with an appropriate offshore employment contract.  

 

addendum: with any item we buy it's not only the value added tax we pay, but we also pay the taxes of the producer, the taxes of the distributor/seller and if the product is not made in Thailand we pay import and excise duties.

[Naam]

9 hours ago, puukao said:

3 million for retirement not to be touched..

5 million for house

500,000 a year to barely live decent existence

times 30, since plan on living long time

23 million..

plus medical..

 

100000000 million....

 

soon inflation at 40%

 

still a cheap place....................good.

how do you dispose of all the empty bottles?

[mania]

15 minutes ago, lothda said:

What about 10 year extensions of stay for retired foreigners who already live in Thailand on the 1 year extension system?

 

Seems you would use what they now propose right?

 

When looking at this 10yr retirement visa it looks like basic Thai thinking

 

This is 10 yr renewed after 5 yr

3million baht bank locked 1 yr + 10k fee per 5yr

 

Now look at existing per year fees

800k bank + 1900fee

 

So Thai reasoning ...... 800k x 5 yr = 4Mill ( give discount to 3 Mill)

1900 baht fee per year x 5 yr ...round up to 10k ( 500 baht up charge/consideration fee for 5yr visa)

 

So what is the difference? They always wanted to see if you had enough to live a year

hence the 800k bank...Now you want a 5 year they still want to see you have enough

Yes the 1 year lock is a benefit to their banks if you choose the bank rather than income route.

But it was never a one way street

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by mania

[lothda]

8 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Seems you would use what they now propose right?

 

 

Right. Wait and see. I'm not due until late 2017. I'll watch the immigration website for a new form to show up (The TM7 form actually allows to enter any number of days for the extension but the fee mentioned is 1,900 Baht, for 1 year.)

Edited November 24, 2016 by lothda