Chaos, confusion, confrontation and conning...Pattaya Immigration

[brewsterbudgen]

When reporting my address to Jomtien I was informed by the IO that they're enforcing this in the wake of the Eriwan Shrine bombing.

That's all well and good as us 'good guys' will follow (or attempt to follow) the rules.

As for the ne'er-do-wells, I'm not so sure...

Yet despite the Erawan Shrine being in Bangkok, it's not being enforced at Immigration in Bangkok.

[wobalt]

I always thought that the Erewan suspects were able to enter Thailand because of corrupt IO officers??

[homeseeker]

They are enforcing it in Jomtien , often arbitrarily, as it is a good way to increase their "revenues".

[Suksan101]

i went to Jomptien immigration office for my 90 day report about 2 months ago,

I am on an annual retirement extension.

I did not move, no change of residence, had not been out of the country.

Yet, i was required to submit yet again a TM30.

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That depends upon the immigration office you go to.

At Pattaya you might be fined since you have left and re-entered the country.

Ohh heck!  I'm in the same boat too.  Surat seems pretty hot on this too.  In my case I went back to Blighty a couple of months ago and returned on a reentry stamp.  I guess I should have gone to immigration.  It just never occured to me as I haven't changed address.

 

I came back 2 weeks ago.  Is it too late to go to immigration, do you think?

[VBF]

The following account of my 30 day extension to an SETV at Jomtien today (14th March 2017) might be of use here in particular my reference to the offered TM30 and the Printed extract of the spreadsheet 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by VBF

[jamie2009]

I have read through all the posts and many others relating too TM28 and TM30 Reporting and to be honest still I am not certain where I stand on the Reporting

 

I have lived in a rented house in Pattaya for over a year, I have the form from Immigration stapled in my Passport which confirms I live there.

i am on a ‘Retirement Visa/Extension of Stay’, I leave and enter Thailand 3/4 times a year always returning to the same residence, the Rental Agreement is in my name. I am never in Thailand more than 90 Days so don’t need to do a report. I do a Re Entry Permit when I leave.

I complete an Arrival Card like all Farangs stating where I am going to be staying in Thailand, same place every time, does this not get registered on a central Data Base so Immigration must know where I am residing ?

 

The bottom line is, I am entering and leaving Thailand going back too the same address so why do I need too a report as I am not changing address,  I am already registered there, the paper stapled in my Passport confirms this. f I didn’t report they would never know I was coming or going ?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jamie2009 said:

I have read through all the posts and many others relating too TM28 and TM30 Reporting and to be honest still I am not certain where I stand on the Reporting

 

I have lived in a rented house in Pattaya for over a year, I have the form from Immigration stapled in my Passport which confirms I live there.

i am on a ‘Retirement Visa/Extension of Stay’, I leave and enter Thailand 3/4 times a year always returning to the same residence, the Rental Agreement is in my name. I am never in Thailand more than 90 Days so don’t need to do a report. I do a Re Entry Permit when I leave.

I complete an Arrival Card like all Farangs stating where I am going to be staying in Thailand, same place every time, does this not get registered on a central Data Base so Immigration must know where I am residing ?

 

The bottom line is, I am entering and leaving Thailand going back too the same address so why do I need too a report as I am not changing address,  I am already registered there, the paper stapled in my Passport confirms this. f I didn’t report they would never know I was coming or going ?

The TM-6 form you fill out upon arrival does not "count" as reporting, as relates to the TM-30 system.  Worst case, it could be used against you, to prove you "should have" reported a TM-30.

 

The TM-30 was designed to be a report for landlords, but has now been changed into a mixed-up thing (often printed with cut-paste from the TM-28 law-language) which now affects non-landlords. 

 

Since you mentioned Jomtien - reports here of their requirements have varied from "Every time you leave your residence for more than 24 hours," to "Every time you leave the country," to "Only if out of the country for more than 3 days or more...," and variations of these. 

 

My personal experience is reporting every single time I leave the country - even if only gone 2 days - and getting a new TM-30 slip added to my passport each time.  I've never been told "not to bother," so I keep reporting to avoid any future potential fine.

 

It's you call as to whether you think the best strategy is to try to fly "under the radar" - since returning to the same residence - or to report every single time, until they tell you not to do so any more (as has been reported by others who showed up every month or so after trips).

Edited December 2, 2017 by JackThompson

[jamie2009]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The TM-6 form you fill out upon arrival does not "count" as reporting, as relates to the TM-30 system.  Worst case, it could be used against you, to prove you "should have" reported a TM-30.

 

The TM-30 was designed to be a report for landlords, but has now been changed into a mixed-up thing (often printed with cut-paste from the TM-28 law-language) which now affects non-landlords. 

 

Since you mentioned Jomtien - reports here of their requirements have varied from "Every time you leave your residence for more than 24 hours," to "Every time you leave the country," to "Only if out of the country for more than 3 days or more...," and variations of these. 

 

My personal experience is reporting every single time I leave the country - even if only gone 2 days - and getting a new TM-30 slip added to my passport each time.  I've never been told "not to bother," so I keep reporting to avoid any future potential fine.

 

It's you call as to whether you think the best strategy is to try to fly "under the radar" - since returning to the same residence - or to report every single time, until they tell you not to do so any more (as has been reported by others who showed up ever month or so after trips).

I am not changing addresses irrespective how many times I enter or leave Thailand, I have a Rental Agreement indicating where I stay.

i can understand if you leave and return too a different address in which case for me it’s up too the owner to notify Immigration.

They don’t provide literature anywhere about this rule not that I have see so how is a new y supposed to find out, not every one has access to the internet.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

I am not changing addresses irrespective how many times I enter or leave Thailand, I have a Rental Agreement indicating where I stay.

i can understand if you leave and return too a different address in which case for me it’s up too the owner to notify Immigration.

They don’t provide literature anywhere about this rule not that I have see so how is a new y supposed to find out, not every one has access to the internet.

Access to the Internet does not help (except to get some guidance here). Neither does attempting to apply logic to the situation. You can read up on the law if you like, but it is pointless. Even the Thai authorities understand that the law as written is totally impractical and unenforceable. What you have instead is partial enforcement of some of the sections of the Immigration Law, varying greatly from area to area.

 

The post by JackThompson gave you the best information available for those in Pattaya. That is important, as every office is different. Unfortunately, according to Jack, there are various interpretations of the law and its enforcement dependent on the immigration official. I suggest you follow his advice to report each time you return to Thailand until an official advises you otherwise.

[jamie2009]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Access to the Internet does not help (except to get some guidance here). Neither does attempting to apply logic to the situation. You can read up on the law if you like, but it is pointless. Even the Thai authorities understand that the law as written is totally impractical and unenforceable. What you have instead is partial enforcement of some of the sections of the Immigration Law, varying greatly from area to area.

 

The post by JackThompson gave you the best information available for those in Pattaya. That is important, as every office is different. Unfortunately, according to Jack, there are various interpretations of the law and its enforcement dependent on the immigration official. I suggest you follow his advice to report each time you return to Thailand until an official advises you otherwise.

I keep going back too the point, how do Immigration know if I or owner hadn’t filed a TM28/30 

i have done loads of Re Entry Permits, Extensions of Stay and possibly one 90 Day Report in 4 Years ?

They only know if you turned up voluntarily at Immigration and complete a TM28/30 Form ?

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by jamie2009
Review.

[BritTim]

40 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

I keep going back too the point, how do Immigration know if I or owner hadn’t filed a TM28/30 

i have done loads of Re Entry Permits, Extensions of Stay and possibly one 90 Day Report in 4 Years ?

They only know if you turned up voluntarily at Immigration and complete a TM28/30 Form ?

While immigration's system is shaky at times, they generally can check if a TM30 notification has been submitted. Each immigration office has a recordof all the notifications submitted in their area. In almost all cases, they will only choose to check if a TM30 has been done if you attend the immigration office. Those with multiple entry visas who leave the country every 60-90 days, and never apply for extensions or re-entry permits can ignore the rules on TM30 notifications. Unless lucky enough to live in an immigration area that waives TM30 notifications, those applying for extensions can assume the computer will be checked,. and you will be asked for proof the TM30 was done if immigration cannot find a record of it in their system.

[tgeezer]

I don't live in Pattaya and as an observer I feel that there is selective enforcement of the law.
This is the first time that I have heard of a form being stapled into a passport confiming an address for instance.
The logic in jamie2009's argument cannot be faulted and it is possible that 'Immigration' agrees with it.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[OJAS]

Out of curiosity, do Jomtien still require those who have fully complied with their TM30 requirements to specifically prove their addresses (in the form of rental agreements, etc) at 90-day reporting and annual extension of stay time?

[rook]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I don't live in Pattaya and as an observer I feel that there is selective enforcement of the law.
This is the first time that I have heard of a form being stapled into a passport confiming an address for instance.
The logic in jamie2009's argument cannot be faulted and it is possible that 'Immigration' agrees with it.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

pathum thani now pin address form in passport

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I don't live in Pattaya and as an observer I feel that there is selective enforcement of the law.
This is the first time that I have heard of a form being stapled into a passport confiming an address for instance.
The logic in jamie2009's argument cannot be faulted and it is possible that 'Immigration' agrees with it.

If you live in Bangkok, you would not need to deal with this - maybe some other areas, also. 

There is plenty of solid logic to counter the way this requirement is being handled (example - not incorporating a TM-6 submission of address as a valid address-report), but that doesn't affect the reality some of us must deal with at our respective imm-offices, unfortunately.

 

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

Out of curiosity, do Jomtien still require those who have fully complied with their TM30 requirements to specifically prove their addresses (in the form of rental agreements, etc) at 90-day reporting and annual extension of stay time?

For the TM-30, your rental-contract plus a letter from the jurstic-person of your condo, or landlord's ID, is usually sufficient.

 

For family-based extensions, Jomtien require the TM-30 be up to date, PLUS additional information on your residence, which are impossible to get if your landlord is not willing to cooperate and/or is unavailable (overseas, etc).  This is a "hard rule" there - even for 60-day family-based extensions.  In those situations, the applicant has no choice but to pay 10x+ the fee-cost to an agent (which magically bypasses many requirements, including financials) or travel for a Non-O-Multi from a consulate.  Using a consulate-issued Visa avoids being potentially caught up in a sting-operation, if the agent-scam is ever cracked-down upon, since all visas processed by that agent might come under scrutiny.

 

The Retirement desk does not seem to be as strict with regard to addresses, based on reports here - but I am not clear on the answer.  Some report doing retirement-based extensions without ever doing a TM-30, while others reported being fined for not doing one.

[Destiny1990]

Lots of long term tourists have left because nolonger its clear and workable these visa rules.

u give some guy 2x a fine will he come again next year?

 

[NanLaew]

53 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

... The Retirement desk does not seem to be as strict with regard to addresses, based on reports here - but I am not clear on the answer.  Some report doing retirement-based extensions without ever doing a TM-30, while others reported being fined for not doing one.

That is a correct statement; it's almost like the unspoken "Don't ask, don't tell." Most longer-term Pattaya area foreign residents file annual renewals and/or 90-day reports and are never asked to provide a TM30 and subsequently don't offer one.

 

The only thing that remains unconfirmed by those that complain about being fined is WHY they were fined. They were told why but they don't tell us why. Or they were told why but didn't (want to) understand the reason why. Hence the concept that it is lucky-dip and/or arbitrarily enforced on the whim of a desk clerk who 'hates us'. Then there are those that hand over money unquestioned and they tend to queer the pitch when trying to pinpoint the reasoning.

 

I still reckon it all comes down to making sure that Jomtien Immigration has your current, registered residential address on your main file. Don't cloud the issue with any perceived Landlords duty and addresses on TM6 cards on arrival. Those are a couple of procedures that you either have absolutely no control over or no idea how it is implemented. Or both.

 

• If you haven't changed address since you started filing extension, then IMHO there's no need to submit a TM30.
• If you have changed address at a point during your sequential, annual extension renewals and have never submitted a TM30, you may come up as one of their 'arbitrary' victims.

If you take some time to look over your extension renewal history and discover that yes, you have changed address at some point during that period and have never submitted a TM30, you should do so at your convenience but expect to be fined 2000 baht.

 

15 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Lots of long term tourists have left because nolonger its clear and workable these visa rules.

u give some guy 2x a fine will he come again next year?

 

That's the new excuse is it?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Lots of long term tourists have left because nolonger its clear and workable these visa rules.

u give some guy 2x a fine will he come again next year?

I doubt that this particular fine is a major factor, given the runaround + costs that long-term tourists currently endure to stay in Thailand legally using Tourist Visas.  In general, it is not tourists who are hit with TM-30 fines (late-filers are rarely fined in Jomtien when applying for extensions), but, some longer-term retirees, who already resent the 90-day reporting system, may have considered this "the last straw" and left. 

 

I suspect most of those who bailed, who formerly resided here longer-term on Tourist-type entries, did so because of the removal of 2x/3x Tourist Visas, and the end of easy "border-bounce" visa-exempt runs including arbitrary rejections or interrogations of entry visa-exempt and even Tourist Visa entries in airports.  Not many are willing to do what I did, and go out for Tourist Visas use land-borders for all entries.

 

Untold billions of baht in foreign-reserve currency-injections are being lost with those actions - combined with increased easy-visas and improving conditions in places like Vietnam.  Look at the advertising market - who is the most valuable demographic?  It's not "over 50s" - its younger people - the future.  It seems like some authorities in Thailand have no desire to compete for younger foreigners, so offer only crazy-priced schemes and high-bars to under-50s, driving thousands to stay in more accommodating, alternative destinations.

Edited December 3, 2017 by JackThompson

[geisha]

I as doing’ my notification yesterday at Jomtien and there were at least one hundred people waiting ,some over 2 hours , me, 1 and half. Last year I was told not to bother doing a Notification after a three day trip to Bangkok. Is this the case this year please ?

[jimn]

2 hours ago, geisha said:

I as doing’ my notification yesterday at Jomtien and there were at least one hundred people waiting ,some over 2 hours , me, 1 and half. Last year I was told not to bother doing a Notification after a three day trip to Bangkok. Is this the case this year please ?

You only have to report if you leave the country.

[geisha]

Jimn , i did my notification of address on my arrival in Thailand ( within 24 hrs) as everyone must do. 

[juice777]

That's the new excuse is it?

"If you haven't changed address since you started filing extension, then IMHO there's no need to submit a TM30."

 

So I think I see it the same way as you. I shouldn't rock the boat worst case scenario I get a 2000THB fine is that correct you think?

 

But I haven't stayed in a hotel in Thailand since all the this malarkey started. If I stay in a hotel should I report in then you think?

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

Pattaya seems over-officious shall we say!  In Surat, they were quick to get meon their computer database and I had to jump the hoops, but after that I've been coming and going without issue.

[jamie2009]

2 hours ago, juice777 said:

"If you haven't changed address since you started filing extension, then IMHO there's no need to submit a TM30."

 

So I think I see it the same way as you. I shouldn't rock the boat worst case scenario I get a 2000THB fine is that correct you think?

 

But I haven't stayed in a hotel in Thailand since all the this malarkey started. If I stay in a hotel should I report in then you think?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

The hotel is supposed to do a TM30 but how many Guest Houses/Rooms do ?

My previous owner did it online.

Its a 3500 Baht fine for a foreigner for not doing a TM28 and 1600 Baht fine for the owner not doing a TM30.

I in my ignorance reported too Jomtien about my change of address when I moved too a house over a year ago. I wasn’t aware of the 24 hour rule. After 2/3 hours of deliberation, initially they were going to fine me 3500 baht they let me off with it.