Quality of Thai paint?

[KhaoYai]

That looks like salts in the concrete coming out to me. There are thousands of things that can cause that to happen but if that's what it is, the best paint in the world will look the same because its not the paint blistering, its the concrete underneath.

 

In Europe, the biggest causes of such problems is painting concrete before all the salts have come out and incorrect concrete mixing ratios. I doubt that the concrete wasn't given enough time to fully dry in Thailand but moisture (humidity) can re-start the process.  Sorry to say I may have the diagnosis but not the cure.

 

It is possible that the primer was incorrectly mixed/applied.

[laochef]

Maybe a little of topic, Sorry ! But does anyone have info on "Non-Toxic" Paint, available in TH ? And quality, durability, etc... ? If possible, both for cement (bricks) and wood, all 'virgin' ? Thanks a LOT in advance !

Chris

[ThaiFelix]

I used Dulux Weathershield (white) for all my walls inside and out including garden walls.  5 years down the track and still like new.  One thing I am impressed with is that touch-ups (damage caused by careless builders or wife moving her pot plants etc) are almost impossible to notice.  The only place I have had problems is a small area on a boundary wall that is only rendered and painted on one side.  This area seems to get all the weather so I am certain it is dampness penetrating through the unsealed side and lifting the paint on the other side.  Scraping, sanding and touching up the damaged areas has rectified the problem and is not noticeable....especially if you "feather out" when touching up.  I might add this is more like bubbling of the paint (up to 10 baht size) rather than fine blistering shown earlier.

 

Polyurethane:  While slightly off topic I would like to relay a warning about using polyurethane.  I have used polyurethane finishers as a handyman and DIY for nearly 40 years without a problem.  All the woodwork in my current house is TOA Polyurethane .  Unfortunately polyurethane does not handle full sun very well here so my verandah posts and a teak bridge over my fishpond etc that get full sun need to be sanded clean and re-coated every 15 months approx.  About a month ago I performed this maintenance as per usual over a period of about 10 days (working cool mornings only).  I followed the instructions as per usual wearing gloves and having adequate ventilation (no mask because outdoors).  After a week I started having breathing problems (heavy phlegm) but put it down to some seasonal bug due to new rainy season.  After 10 days I woke with a full body rash.  Hospital explained it as change in the weather and smoking.  I wasnt convinced so did some research.

 

Apparently polyurethane contains a substance called isocyanate.  Exposure to isocyanate over many years can cause some people to become sensitized to it....like they have no tolerance to it.  Some people can even develop a nasty rash from a fracture cast which today are a mixture of fiberglass and polyurethane not plaster as previous.  End result is my lungs are damaged and I can never use polyurethane again.  I would suggest people always wear a mask and gloves (no skin contact) irregardless when using any coating containing polyurethane or isocyanate.

[Buzzboy05]

I have done lots of painting in Aus. For concrete and AC sheets first coat must be very watery so as o soak well into the substrate thus giving it a good adhesion to the surface. For moisture coming from outside on block walls I used special sealer from Dulux, ( but not remember now as was a long time ago) worked very good never a problem again. Once this is done to good top coats of thinned good quality paint , Thick paint not good.

[Buzzboy05]

The new painting of old paint success  is in the preparation, old paint usually breaks down under the stress from the new paint. Mostly prepare surface with high pressure water blaster, usually removes fade and deteriorated paint and any other foreign bits. When painting cement with first coat some times an advantage if wall is damp also helps penetration.   

[khunPer]

On 6/10/2018 at 4:14 PM, The Deerhunter said:

OK so am I just unlucky, using the wrong brands of paint, is the extreme climate conditions to blame or are Thai paints uniformly of low quality.  Some replies would be appreciated from people with extensive experience of various paints here and in other countries. 

I've been painting my own new-build house here, and it's still in perfect condition after 8 years since finished (some paint is 9-years old now), even I live beachfront and is therefore also exposed to sea and monsoon storms.

 

A friend of mine owns a painter-company in my Scandinavian home country, and he guided me a little, and said the paint in Thailand is perfectly good as home.

 

First thing is to make sure the concrete (plaster) has dried and cured for at least one month before painting, preferably longer time, my professional friend said three month.

 

I used TOA Super Shield acrylic paint – because they said in adverts that it would last for at least 10-years, and that it was used on Baiyoke Tower in Bangkok, which I presume they did not wish to repaint every third year or so; furthermore a lot of other benefits with that paint that might be worth the little higher cost – and TOA quick primer. Other brands might be equal good, I'm just saying what I chose.

 

I did two layers of primer to make sure all surface was fully covered. I had some Thai construction workers helping me, and I taught them how to do it, not rush the job, and make sure the paint worked; i.e. not using too little paint. I also taught them how to use covering tape, and cover all areas not to be painted. Test covering tape before using them, some of them are really bad; I found that Japanese "Lion Brand" tape was best.

 

I did three layers of Super Shield acrylic on top. I used semigloss paint, even I preferred a matte finish, buecause my painter-expert said that semigloss would last longer in the Thai weather conditions, and after a year or two the gloss would be gone; I'm glad that I listened to him, he was right.

 

We waited a day between each layer of paint to make sure it cured well, before the next layer; i.e. next layer, next day.

 

My next door neighbor also build a house at the same time, a luxury villa, however their paint didn't last; some places not even one year. They used another brand of paint – which was little cheaper, the paint job probably part of a complete construction contract where the building constructor cut costs on paint – and they did only one layer of primer, and two layers of matte finish acrylic paint, painted by the normal building construction team.

?

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

I've been painting my own new-build house here, and it's still in perfect condition after 8 years since finished (some paint is 9-years old now), even I live beachfront and is therefore also exposed to sea and monsoon storms.

 

A friend of mine owns a painter-company in my Scandinavian home country, and he guided me a little, and said the paint in Thailand is perfectly good as home.

 

First thing is to make sure the concrete (plaster) has dried and cured for at least one month before painting, preferably longer time, my professional friend said three month.

 

I used TOA Super Shield acrylic paint – because they said in adverts that it would last for at least 10-years, and that it was used on Baiyoke Tower in Bangkok, which I presume they did not wish to repaint every third year or so; furthermore a lot of other benefits with that paint that might be worth the little higher cost – and TOA quick primer. Other brands might be equal good, I'm just saying what I chose.

 

I did two layers of primer to make sure all surface was fully covered. I had some Thai construction workers helping me, and I taught them how to do it, not rush the job, and make sure the paint worked; i.e. not using too little paint. I also taught them how to use covering tape, and cover all areas not to be painted. Test covering tape before using them, some of them are really bad; I found that Japanese "Lion Brand" tape was best.

 

I did three layers of Super Shield acrylic on top. I used semigloss paint, even I preferred a matte finish, buecause my painter-expert said that semigloss would last longer in the Thai weather conditions, and after a year or two the gloss would be gone; I'm glad that I listened to him, he was right.

 

We waited a day between each layer of paint to make sure it cured well, before the next layer; i.e. next layer, next day.

 

My next door neighbor also build a house at the same time, a luxury villa, however their paint didn't last; some places not even one year. They used another brand of paint – which was little cheaper, the paint job probably part of a complete construction contract where the building constructor cut costs on paint – and they did only one layer of primer, and two layers of matte finish acrylic paint, painted by the normal building construction team.

?

Most of my prep was ok but I will definitely change brands.  No one on here has recommended the brands I used so I will change and make sure do only one coat a day.  Paint dries quickly here so it is tempting to do two or more coats in a day.  Thanks for your input and that from others as well.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Most of my prep was ok but I will definitely change brands.  No one on here has recommended the brands I used so I will change and make sure do only one coat a day.  Paint dries quickly here so it is tempting to do two or more coats in a day.  Thanks for your input and that from others as well.

Thanks for your reply, if you're repainting make sure to clean well first, and use a primer before repainting; Toa Quick Primer can also be used on top of old paint (the instructions states), other brands might have same features.

[superal]

On 6/12/2018 at 10:07 AM, The Deerhunter said:

I hope you get an answer because is part of what I am experiencing.    Rising damp is a problem here because there is never a membrane of any sort between foundations/floors  and the walls.   ON some of my exterior walls the worst damage is around the bottom edge  of the exterior wall.  I also wonder if some of the floor tile failures we see around the country are caused by upward migration of water or efflorescence from the concrete coming up under the tiles.

Rising damp seems to be a common problem because as you say there is no damp course installed ,

so why is that I ask ? I have been told that there is a silicone paint/liquid that can be applied to the wall and over painted  and so stop the paint flaking at low levels .

Is there anyone who installed a damp course in a new build in Thailand . Have to say I have never seen a membrane in the diy stores .

Finally I have seen some of the painting by Thai workers and majority is of a sub standard with no masking tape used plus cutting in techniques awful and no protection to the floor , what a mess . Having said that I hired a Thai guy for painting etc and he was meticulous to the extreme and a joy to watch , so they can do it but just have to find the good guys .

Finally do you use a brush or roller when painting walls ?  some say that rollers do not get the adhesion to a cement rendered wall .

[observer90210]

How good is the quality of local made Thai Paint ?....excellent quality, mainly when imported !!!!!!!!!!!

 

In more serious words, like anything else here, you get for what you pay......should it be the material or workmanship...

[The Deerhunter]

3 hours ago, superal said:

Rising damp seems to be a common problem because as you say there is no damp course installed ,

so why is that I ask ? I have been told that there is a silicone paint/liquid that can be applied to the wall and over painted  and so stop the paint flaking at low levels .

Is there anyone who installed a damp course in a new build in Thailand . Have to say I have never seen a membrane in the diy stores .

Finally I have seen some of the painting by Thai workers and majority is of a sub standard with no masking tape used plus cutting in techniques awful and no protection to the floor , what a mess . Having said that I hired a Thai guy for painting etc and he was meticulous to the extreme and a joy to watch , so they can do it but just have to find the good guys .

Finally do you use a brush or roller when painting walls ?  some say that rollers do not get the adhesion to a cement rendered wall .

One of the reasons that Thai pointing is so poor is that they do not like brushes.  I'm the opposite.  I don't like rollers.  I know some of the problems in paint in on my site is that rollers on a 3 metre bamboo pole do not apply paint very well at top or bottom of walls.  If a brush is necessary then tough luck.  It won't get used at all or only for the exact time that you are there to check It is being used.  And the moment you step away sealer will get thinned 150 - 200% and the top and bottom of walls will be lucky to get one coat each of sealer and top coat near top, bottom and ends.  And all coats done on one wall in one day.  I had the same problem getting them to properly attach a ply floor surface to the old plank floor in the farmhouse.  They just nodded at my instructions and did it my way only as long as I was there then defied me and did it their way.  It is dead easy to see where screws are not on 150mm 6" centres.  Not so easy to see if paint is not correctly applied.

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

42 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

One of the reasons that Thai pointing is so poor is that they do not like brushes. 

I asked the brother in law if Thai painters hate brushes and he told me to ease off on the weed.

[The Deerhunter]

6 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

I asked the brother in law if Thai painters hate brushes and he told me to ease off on the weed.

Not sure what you mean by that but the guys I have seen love to stand back a couple of meters from the wall and give it a lick and a promise with a roller on a 2 metre bamboo pole.  I have given them roller trays to use but they scorned them in preference for dipping the roller on the pole into the 20 litre pail of emulsion.  Actually get down on their knees or up on a ladder or trestle to do the wall top and bottoms properly? Not them: Go wash your mouth out with soap. I have got several weeks work ahead of me when the rain stops, water blasting sanding priming and repainting all 4 walls of quite a large house.  And all the wooden joined that I painted myself but I am going to have to re- do with a different brand of paint.

[yrag]

On 6/11/2018 at 7:15 AM, Rarebear said:

I used good paint but think the lady at the store sold me the wrong kind of primer for my concrete exterior walls around my property and now it is bubbling.  I have two questions.  1.  What do I do now?  Do I have to sand it all down and 2.  Do I have to paint both sides of the wall?  (it is an exterior concrete wall surrounding my property outside)

Answer/   Prime with Cito 09 by jotun...Home pro, Holiday Inn  all High end buildings use this along with a semi-gloss it appears,,,It's alkaline base that penetrates deep into concrete......That the secret to Paint Longevity

[yrag]

 Prime with Cito 09 by jotun...Home pro, Holiday Inn  all High end buildings use this along with a semi-gloss it appears,,,It's alkaline base that penetrates deep into concrete......That the secret to Paint Longevity

[yrag]

On 6/23/2018 at 5:30 AM, yrag said:

Answer/   Prime with Cito 09 by jotun...Home pro, Holiday Inn  all High end buildings use this along with a semi-gloss it appears,,,It's alkaline base that penetrates deep into concrete......That the secret to Paint Longevity

Anytime you paint.. do two times for complete coverage same with primer...Bleach walls to kill fungus etc...yes i sand my walls with abrasive paper...i bought my sanding block at Thai Watsadu..only place could find a good one pictured below.

[kamalabob2]

The sanding block is available at better home builder stores and well worth the minor cost. I have experience with painting a few homes in Thailand and most brands offer different grades of interior house paint and exterior house paint. I am 100% satisfied with the TOA Supershield, Nippon Colourshield Plus Solar Reflect, and the Nippon Weatherbond Advance paints. The difference often is Sheen, Matt or Semi-Gloss finish. Black rolls of vapor barrier to prevent moisture is readily available in Buriram at a Home Builders merchants store. Wider 18" rollers or top quality paint brushes is another challenge I see the virtue in sourcing as I participate in painting a two story home. Fiberglass ladders that can hold 150KG are an investment that makes me feel safer as I am 64 and not keen on falling off a typical ladder. I recommend a UK home builder who has actual previous UK home building experience and participates daily in building houses in Isaan. He owns and personally operates a Graco 695 Ultramax airless paint sprayer with Nippon Paint. He also paints with 18" wide rollers and quality paint brushes.  Easy to buy Scotch blue masking tape for painting in Thailand at Homepro. What I have not yet found in Thailand is the green Frog tape which is rated higher in Consumer Reports. 

[yrag]

15 minutes ago, kamalabob2 said:

The sanding block is available at better home builder stores and well worth the minor cost. I have experience with painting a few homes in Thailand and most brands offer different grades of interior house paint and exterior house paint. I am 100% satisfied with the TOA Supershield, Nippon Colourshield Plus Solar Reflect, and the Nippon Weatherbond Advance paints. The difference often is Sheen, Matt or Semi-Gloss finish. Black rolls of vapor barrier to prevent moisture is readily available in Buriram at a Home Builders merchants store. Wider 18" rollers or top quality paint brushes is another challenge I see the virtue in sourcing as I participate in painting a two story home. Fiberglass ladders that can hold 150KG are an investment that makes me feel safer as I am 64 and not keen on falling off a typical ladder. I recommend a UK home builder who has actual previous UK home building experience and participates daily in building houses in Isaan. He owns and personally operates a Graco 695 Ultramax airless paint sprayer with Nippon Paint. He also paints with 18" wide rollers and quality paint brushes.  Easy to buy Scotch blue masking tape for painting in Thailand at Homepro. What I have not yet found in Thailand is the green Frog tape which is rated higher in Consumer Reports. 

Thank you for your informative post, preparation is everything, clean bonding surface and Primer, it took me some time to find out what the big boys use,,,Commercial bldg, Hotels Etc..Cito 09 and semi gloss paint...,,2 coats

[Dumbastheycome]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:30 AM, Rarebear said:

It is not bubbled all over just in a couple of spots.  What do I do?

That  looks  like a problem  caused  by painting  concrete  that is  too fresh. It  is  rare to  see concrete  construction  use  any  water  barrier from the  ground whether  that be  walls  or  floors. Even a wall  acts  like a  wick that draws  moisture upwards  which  results  in  salt concentration and leaching . Most  paint  products usually  include as  part of recommended  application methods to not  apply  to fresh  concrete surfaces for a  minimum  of  3  months.

A close inspection  of those  bubbles will  probably  be seen to contain powdered salt crystals and/or  unconverted

lime. In Thailand on-site  plastering  mortar mix often  also  has  excessive cement content which exacerbates the  problem. 

The fast  but  not  simple solution is  to  strip  it  and  leave  that way a  while  before  painting  again. Or   just leave  it as  is  until  new  bubbles  stop appearing which will  take  considerably  longer. Maybe assisted by topping  the  bubbles and  washing as  they  form but unfortunately making  it more  ugly in appearance.

[yrag]

18 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

That  looks  like a problem  caused  by painting  concrete  that is  too fresh. It  is  rare to  see concrete  construction  use  any  water  barrier from the  ground whether  that be  walls  or  floors. Even a wall  acts  like a  wick that draws  moisture upwards  which  results  in  salt concentration and leaching . Most  paint  products usually  include as  part of recommended  application methods to not  apply  to fresh  concrete surfaces for a  minimum  of  3  months.

A close inspection  of those  bubbles will  probably  be seen to contain powdered salt crystals and/or  unconverted

lime. In Thailand on-site  plastering  mortar mix often  also  has  excessive cement content which exacerbates the  problem. 

The fast  but  not  simple solution is  to  strip  it  and  leave  that way a  while  before  painting  again. Or   just leave  it as  is  until  new  bubbles  stop appearing which will  take  considerably  longer. Maybe assisted by topping  the  bubbles and  washing as  they  form but unfortunately making  it more  ugly in appearance.

What i would do would scrap it off, clean with solution of bleach and water, proper dry then two coats of cito 09 ....Dry then quality paint mentioned above...I also agree with the above analysis the cause...

[yrag]

[yrag]

The contractor that did NEW Home Pro Bang Saray, used Cito 09 and final coats semi gloss Toa....

[hackjam]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 3:03 AM, yrag said:

Anytime you paint.. do two times for complete coverage same with primer...Bleach walls to kill fungus etc...yes i sand my walls with abrasive paper...i bought my sanding block at Thai Watsadu..only place could find a good one pictured below.

Looks like this-Fungus-could be my problem, a small section of my wall is driving me round the twist, I have sanded it, primed and painted but each time it just flakes. What kind of bleach should I use. Also, can anyone recommend a good quality primer?

[petermik]

8 hours ago, hackjam said:

 Also, can anyone recommend a good quality primer?

I,m in the same position,need a good quality oil based primer.....oil based because my builder put the same ceiling boards up outside as was on the inside of the house....i.e. not the one,s that are moisture proof (green coloured I believe) ......from time to time I get the paint splitting in small ares as its no adhered properly to the board.....my painting expert back in the uk tells me to paint the affected areas first with an oil based wood primer/undercoat......any suggestions please?

 

[kamalabob2]

Petermik:  Do you have gypsum ceilings outside of your home or fiber cement wood soffit boards or fiber cement soffit sheets for your ceiling?  Green gypsum board is not recommended for a veranda or covered porch ceiling. Not for eaves in my experience. I have not seen any gypsum board rated for exterior in my shopping in Thailand. Gyproc might have such a product, but I have never seen it in Thailand. Fibercement soffit wood or soffit sheets made by SCG, Shera, Diamond, TPI or Conwood would seem a better long term product in my observation.  Oil base primer is readily available from reputable paint brands made in Thailand including TOA, Jotun, Nippon, Dulux. 

[petermik]

Gypsum board on the outside ceilings same as inside.....our "soffit boards" are shera fibre cement no problems there......yes they "cocked up" took a couple of years for the first signs of flaking/cracking to appear,nothing severe its just whenever I "touch them up" it doesn,t seem to last long even though I use a primer first......basically the paint isn,t bonding properly so a pal of my (ex P& D) told me to use an oil based undercoat/sealer......the look on the guys in Homepro etc when I try explaining "oil based" is hilarious.....I,ll try a specialist paint shop.

Thanks anyhow

[yrag]

9 hours ago, hackjam said:

Looks like this-Fungus-could be my problem, a small section of my wall is driving me round the twist, I have sanded it, primed and painted but each time it just flakes. What kind of bleach should I use. Also, can anyone recommend a good quality primer?

Regular bleach can buy anywhere even 7-11....Jotun Cito 09 what the big boys use on their buildings..Holiday Inn, Home pro..Etc...it is alkaline and penetrates deep within the substrate.. i use it and excellent if done two times with proper preparation...Note/.each time u do a step let it dry before continuing

[sometimewoodworker]

On 6/23/2018 at 5:30 AM, yrag said:

Answer/   Prime with Cito 09 by jotun...Home pro, Holiday Inn  all High end buildings use this along with a semi-gloss it appears,,,It's alkaline base that penetrates deep into concrete......That the secret to Paint Longevity

It doesn't have an alkaline base it is A solvent based paint that is resistant to alkali due to the Pliolite Resin that it uses.

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, petermik said:

Gypsum board on the outside ceilings same as inside.....our "soffit boards" are shera fibre cement no problems there......yes they "cocked up" took a couple of years for the first signs of flaking/cracking to appear,nothing severe its just whenever I "touch them up" it doesn,t seem to last long even though I use a primer first......basically the paint isn,t bonding properly so a pal of my (ex P& D) told me to use an oil based undercoat/sealer......the look on the guys in Homepro etc when I try explaining "oil based" is hilarious.....I,ll try a specialist paint shop.

Thanks anyhow

Just make sure that it isn't water based and the usual suspects ( Global House, DoHome, Thai Watsadu) all have it. If it needs thinner (AAA) it is what you need.

[yrag]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It doesn't have an alkaline base it is A solvent based paint that is resistant to alkali due to the Pliolite Resin that it uses.

u are correct, my bad....be solvent base is what i meant to say...Thanks