BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, those of us affected need a few drinks to deal with the lunacy that has been inflicted upon us by the brit. embassy.....

 

And I can understand why other nationalities are also concerned after the brit. embassy stated that the USA was about to follow suit (????) - plus of course, I've no doubt that zero embassies actually verify the information provided by their citizens.

 

As far as I can make out, the brit. embassy was one of the 'better ones' - insofar as it at least demanded supporting documentation.

 

A bit off-topic, but I'd LOVE to have been a fly on the wall at the next meeting/party where the brit. embassador met the US embassador ????!

Well as I have said before here, the German embassy does all they can to ascertain that your claims are correct, first applicants must show up in person, only original documents are accepted (exception is the bank statements pulled from the internet banking) I was sent back to Surin from Bangkok once because I had a copy instead of an original, after that everything runs smoothly, you are in their computer, they know you and who knows if they verify further when you have left the embassy. I go personally every year in case there is a problem because of my British passport but the official bangs in my name and up come the details, I pass over my documents and he can see if anything has changed, sometimes there is a question but hardly ever, it's all straight forward, after 15 minuets I'm out.

[Kadilo]

19 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Thank you Thaidream...Ahhh isn't it nice to know we only have a few slow learning Brits on this site.  Even kindergarten law school know what to do as you have suggested.  

Why don’t you quit flaming and patrionising. It’s getting really tedious. 

This is a serious subject for many and the last thing people need is constant wind ups from others with nothing better to do on a subject that doesn’t even affect them. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Kadilo

[David Walden]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not quite so simple as many areas do not have a british consular service - so it would necessitate travelling to Bangkok.

 

Which reminds me of the panic felt by some of us when we first heard that the brit. embassy would no longer renew passports via the post.  The new 'system' was that we would have to go to an appointed agent in Bangkok to submit our application, and then wait a day to collect our new passport from the agent....

 

Fortunately, other agents have appeared to deal with this on our behalf - negating the need to stay in Bangkok for 2 days.  And yes, some of us would find this a problem before some poster argues that this isn't a problem....

So what's different it's been that for Australian and other expats for a long time.  That's what the Australian Embassy is for "to do business at"  Lord give us a break

Edited October 15, 2018 by David Walden

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

Well as I have said before here, the German embassy does all they can to ascertain that your claims are correct, first applicants must show up in person, only original documents are accepted (exception is the bank statements pulled from the internet banking) I was sent back to Surin from Bangkok once because I had a copy instead of an original, after that everything runs smoothly, you are in their computer, they know you and who knows if they verify further when you have left the embassy. I go personally every year in case there is a problem because of my British passport but the official bangs in my name and up come the details, I pass over my documents and he can see if anything has changed, sometimes there is a question but hardly ever, it's all straight forward, after 15 minuets I'm out.

Which brings me back to the following points:-

 

1) Not all of us are able to travel back and forth, for various reasons.  Plus, I cannot see why turning up in person somehow validates the information provided?

 

2) I always sent original documents to the BE -  and see no reason why bank statements 'pulled' from the internet should be acceptable.

 

Having said this - I think we both agree that the brit. embassy's unilateral decision is a lot of bs and unjustifiable.  So we shouldn't be arguing about details.

 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Why don’t you quit flaming and patrionising. It’s getting really tedious. 

This is a serious subject for many and the last thing people need is constant wind ups from others with nothing better to do on a subject that doesn’t even affect them. 

Best to ignore the poster.

 

Edit - He'll eventually go away if he doesn't receive any response.

Edited October 15, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Kadilo]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Best to ignore the poster.

 

Edit - He'll eventually go away if he doesn't receive any response.

Probably. In the meantime people have to filter through pages of dross

[Joe Mcseismic]

It's really very simple.

1. Thai immigration have told the BE (only?) that they expect them to verify the income from the people that are getting the embassy letter.

2. It is impossible for the BE to do that.

3. The BE are worried that they would be legally liable if one of their citizens in possession of one of their letters was proved to have lied about their income.

 

Therefore all your letters and petitions are going to fail because in effect, you are asking the BE to take legal liability, which of course they are not going to do.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

It's really very simple.

1. Thai immigration have told the BE (only?) that they expect them to verify the income from the people that are getting the embassy letter.

2. It is impossible for the BE to do that.

3. The BE are worried that they would be legally liable if one of their citizens in possession of one of their letters was proved to have lied about their income.

 

Therefore all your letters and petitions are going to fail because in effect, you are asking the BE to take legal liability, which of course they are not going to do.

Let me tell you what really happened.  The Thais and the Brits have known all of this for 10 years.  Someone in the BE who was tired of the paperwork and wanted a longer coffee break snuggled up to the boss and said, "I got an idea to save money and no one cares about those sexpats in Thailand anyway."

[gaviny]

It's really very simple.

1. Thai immigration have told the BE (only?) that they expect them to verify the income from the people that are getting the embassy letter.

2. It is impossible for the BE to do that.

3. The BE are worried that they would be legally liable if one of their citizens in possession of one of their letters was proved to have lied about their income.

 

Therefore all your letters and petitions are going to fail because in effect, you are asking the BE to take legal liability, which of course they are not going to do.

Which begs the question , why not do it the Aussie way , with the a Stat Dec the liability is on the person and not the Embassy.

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[Joe Mcseismic]

Too many people thinking subjectively because it personally affects them. That won't help.

Think of it objectively from the BE's point of view. They really have no choice but to stop the issuance of these letters.

What if there is an announcement that the BE is going to go US style? You think that Thai immigration won't hear? What if Thai immigration suddenly realise after this announcement that NONE of the letters from any embassy actually guarantees their citizens statement. What happens then?

 

Far better to start sending your letters and petitions to Thai immigration because they'll do bugger all going to the BE. 

[doctormann]

I don't see that hassling Immigration directly is likely to have much effect.  Far better to hassle the BE, who can then hassle Immigration on our behalf.  I'm sure that they have more clout than we do!

 

I am, of course, assuming that the BE actually gives a tinker's cuss about this!

[Joe Mcseismic]

Thai immigration have been lazy for years. It's them that want to know if the income declarations are true, yet they have got away with passing their responsibility on to the embassies. 

Obviously, they, like all the embassies can't verify the income declarations. If they ever realise this, it'll be cash only in a Thai bank account. Nice and easy for them, a simple solution and the path of least resistance. A very "Thai" solution. They can even claim "Quality in, Cheap Charlies Out" and gain Brownie points with the Thai population.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

it's all straight forward, after 15 minuets I'm out.

That's me buggered then, cos I can't dance!

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Too many people thinking subjectively because it personally affects them. That won't help.

Think of it objectively from the BE's point of view. They really have no choice but to stop the issuance of these letters.

What if there is an announcement that the BE is going to go US style? You think that Thai immigration won't hear? What if Thai immigration suddenly realise after this announcement that NONE of the letters from any embassy actually guarantees their citizens statement. What happens then?

 

Far better to start sending your letters and petitions to Thai immigration because they'll do bugger all going to the BE. 

Poor BE.  The only embassy not able to figure out a way to continue the letters.  Time for some staff that can think as well as an Aussie. 

[Kalasin Jo]

20 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Let me tell you what really happened.  The Thais and the Brits have known all of this for 10 years.  Someone in the BE who was tired of the paperwork and wanted a longer coffee break snuggled up to the boss and said, "I got an idea to save money and no one cares about those sexpats in Thailand anyway."

There are apparently at least 3000 of us, as BE have said they process 250 a month. That's a significant number. Not everyone can just rustle up 400k or 800 k baht and just keep it in the bank seasoning. That's what I used to do but now I'm stuck with monthly pension income. Furthermore I don't spend all  my time in Thailand and have another home and expenses elsewhere than Thailand.I have written to the BE copy attached. I suggest those affected do the same. I agree, hassling thai immigration not a good idea and might just stir up a hornets nest for non Brits. Better to protest to BE.

[Pattaya46]

51 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

2) I always sent original documents to the BE -  and see no reason why bank statements 'pulled' from the internet should be acceptable.

You mean that you still have "paper documents" ?? 

I am not from UK, but in my country (nearly) everything is now on Internet and all my financial attestations (revenues, dividends, bank, taxes...) are PDF files only. Several years that I didn't receive a postal paper letter for such documents.

The authenticity of important PDF documents such as those of the Taxes Office can be verified online on their website using a code shown in the PDF.

[soalbundy]

21 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Too many people thinking subjectively because it personally affects them. That won't help.

Think of it objectively from the BE's point of view. They really have no choice but to stop the issuance of these letters.

What if there is an announcement that the BE is going to go US style? You think that Thai immigration won't hear? What if Thai immigration suddenly realise after this announcement that NONE of the letters from any embassy actually guarantees their citizens statement. What happens then?

 

Far better to start sending your letters and petitions to Thai immigration because they'll do bugger all going to the BE. 

I think it's fairly clear that IO isn't too concerned about the few that cheat otherwise they would close down the agents, clarity and order in the paperwork is of uttermost importance, the letter is simple and easy and gives this clarity. What would they do to the embassy if it turned out someone had only 50,000 instead of 65,000, a firing squad ? an international scandal ? apologies from the PM ? Let us be quite clear, nobody, not the Thais nor the BE is bothered about the truth of income statements as long as it isn't too blatant, the regulation is arbitrary, pulled from thin air. The embassy is making unnecessary waves to save a few Baht, that is all.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

I did suggest there are a few slow learners around???

I also suggested that you keep on topic. 

 

You must be slower than I thought.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, vistana said:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/moderation-info  So how do we sign the petition?   looks like its being reviewed at the moment to see if meets the requirements. 

From the website

 

We’re checking this petition

5 people have already supported Richard Brown’s petition.

We need to check it meets the petition standards before we publish it.

Please try again in a few days.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Kadilo said:

Why don’t you quit flaming and patrionising. It’s getting really tedious. 

This is a serious subject for many and the last thing people need is constant wind ups from others with nothing better to do on a subject that doesn’t even affect them. 

Sadly there is no known cure for stupid.

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Best to ignore the poster.

 

Edit - He'll eventually go away if he doesn't receive any response.

 

Done and thank you.

[David Walden]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Poor BE.  The only embassy not able to figure out a way to continue the letters.  Time for some staff that can think as well as an Aussie. 

I think the BE has worked it out and it's a pity that the noisy minority Brits who are relying on the BE leter  do not want to go down the Stat dec road.  Like most other countries do.  It's a very good alternative.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

I think the BE has worked it out and it's a pity that the noisy minority Brits who are relying on the BE leter  do not want to go down the Stat dec road.  Like most other countries do.  It's a very good alternative.

stat dec is ok, it's an embassy document, it's all the IO wants.

[David Walden]

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

stat dec is ok, it's an embassy document, it's all the IO wants.

No a Stat Dec is your document it belongs to you, where you have sworn on your property (the stat dec) the that facts contained there-in are true under oath and given it to someone else as proof that you are telling the truth witnessed in this case by a JP at an Embassy.  If it's full of BS and you are found out well you pay the price.  That is all the Thais are asking for.  I just cannot see how the BE can reverse their decision.

[Expattaff1308]

10 minutes ago, David Walden said:

No a Stat Dec is your document it belongs to you, where you have sworn on your property (the stat dec) the that facts contained there-in are true under oath and given it to someone else as proof that you are telling the truth witnessed in this case by a JP at an Embassy.  If it's full of BS and you are found out well you pay the price.  That is all the Thais are asking for.  I just cannot see how the BE can reverse their decision.

Happy to sign a stat doc, my Pension Providers (as in my evidence to the BE) is factual. I cant see the DWP & Civil Service Pensions would falsify figures to suit my needs.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[NanLaew]

35 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I think the BE has worked it out and it's a pity that the noisy minority Brits who are relying on the BE leter  do not want to go down the Stat dec road.  Like most other countries do.  It's a very good alternative.

What stat dec? The BE doesn't do 'stat dec' and never has. Their website shows a very limited range of documents that they will provide and not one of them can be construed as an alternative to the soon to discontinued income letter.

[marcusarelus]

Do you all mean a statutory declaration? 

[Peterw42]

Here is an example of an Australian Statutory declaration, the citizen makes the statement and the embassy just says "signed before me"

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Here is an example of an Australian Statutory declaration, the citizen makes the statement and the embassy just says "signed before me"

 

 

 

Obviously too complicated for the BE to figure out. 

[Thaidream]

Ah yes- but the main point is that the Aussie Stat dec also includes a statement hat what is singing if false incurs a criminal or civil liability.

 

The US Affidavit includes an Oath and a statement hat oneis signing unfer penalty of perjury.

 

Very few Embassies will ever be able to  absolutely  guarantee the applicant is completely truthful- but they do state if the person lies there is an offense -criminal or civil. Thai Imm can have a person sign a similar statement and  randomly check added docs as they do in CM for some Americans.  

 

BE is simply refusing to play ball- and shutting down their system rather than working with everyone to find a solution. At least the Aussies and Americans are indicating to the Thais- if you find a lie- prosecute and notify  us and we can put you on the FBI or Australian Federal Police.

 

The BE i can do what they want but don't expect the Thais to change their system-  BE is throwing down the gauntlet saying our way  or the highway.  Can your imagine a Thai applying for a British Visa and when the BE asks for a certain document the Thai says- can't provide it- Thai government won't give it.  

[Jingthing]

It's really very simple.

1. Thai immigration have told the BE (only?) that they expect them to verify the income from the people that are getting the embassy letter.

2. It is impossible for the BE to do that.

3. The BE are worried that they would be legally liable if one of their citizens in possession of one of their letters was proved to have lied about their income.

 

Therefore all your letters and petitions are going to fail because in effect, you are asking the BE to take legal liability, which of course they are not going to do.

You take their explanation literally. That is cute.

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