Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, Media1 said:

The embassy are happy to verify.

They can't verify, that's the point!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read under 'Why' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They can only 'certify' your signature.

[CharlieH]

Time out guys unless someone fancies a holiday ??

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Time out guys unless someone fancies a holiday ??

I am putting this topic on a 2 hour timeout by closing it for that long.

Edit Unlocked now.

Edited November 10, 2018 by ubonjoe

[bigginhill]

Would it be possibile to have just one forum on this? Seeing as the original forum  

 is continuing and reading from page 176 onwards it seems that the income letter that was supposed to be valid for 6 months is being refused at Phuket if it doesn't contain only state pensions.

At this point or Australian or Brits or Americans we all have the same problem.

Can we pool the info on one forum?

If my income letter that should be issued before Dicember is refused at IM because it has generic income not state pension, the game has changed yet again

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by bigginhill
edit

[evadgib]

15 hours ago, bigginhill said:

Would it be possibile to have just one forum on this? Seeing as the original forum  

 is continuing and reading from page 176 onwards it seems that the income letter that was supposed to be valid for 6 months is being refused at Phuket if it doesn't contain only state pensions.

At this point or Australian or Brits or Americans we all have the same problem.

Can we pool the info on one forum?

If my income letter that should be issued before Dicember is refused at IM because it has generic income not state pension, the game has changed yet again

 

 

 

 

That seemingly came from immigration volunteers & should therefore be treated as hogwash/likely to be superseded when Imm hierarchy finally get off their kybers and issue the direction on which we all await...

Edited November 12, 2018 by evadgib

[Tanoshi]

17 hours ago, bigginhill said:

is continuing and reading from page 176 onwards it seems that the income letter that was supposed to be valid for 6 months is being refused at Phuket if it doesn't contain only state pensions.

That is against Immigration own Directive concerning proof of income, which has not changed.

 

I'm afraid Phuket need to be challenged on their decision to make a change in the rules without a new directive from Bangkok. Ring Immigration hotline 1178 to complain.

 

State pensions alone from most Countries wouldn't even meet the 40K per month requirement.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Tanoshi

[merijn]

 

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

That seemingly came from immigration volunteers & should therefore be treated as hogwash/likely to be superseded when Imm hierarchy finally get off their kybers and issue the direction on which we all await...

Hopefully Phuket Immigration will start listening and acting to immigration HQ instructions without making up their own rules but until then the do whatever they want.

Therefore i don't think that the immigration volunteers information is hogwash as they sit next to officers every day and have probable more information about Phuket immigration then we have here on TV. 

[dick dasterdly]

18 hours ago, bigginhill said:

Would it be possibile to have just one forum on this? Seeing as the original forum  

 is continuing and reading from page 176 onwards it seems that the income letter that was supposed to be valid for 6 months is being refused at Phuket if it doesn't contain only state pensions.

At this point or Australian or Brits or Americans we all have the same problem.

Can we pool the info on one forum?

If my income letter that should be issued before Dicember is refused at IM because it has generic income not state pension, the game has changed yet again

 

 

 

Understand your point - but a better solution would be for posters to post on the relevant thread.

 

Currently, many of the comments on the various threads are intertwined when most (not all) could be contained to the relevant thread -i.e. US citizens/Brit. citizens/Aus. citizens/those living on Phuket?

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

That is against Immigration own Directive concerning proof of income, which has not changed.

 

I'm afraid Phuket need to be challenged on their decision to make a change in the rules without a new directive from Bangkok. Ring Immigration hotline 1178 to complain.

 

State pensions alone from most Countries wouldn't even meet the 40K per month requirement.

Precisely who is prepared to 'stick their neck out' to complain about Phuket coming up with their own 'rules'?

 

Presumably not even Phuket Immigration volunteers are prepared to do so!

[Tounge Thaied]

On 11/2/2018 at 6:53 AM, wgdanson said:

Read carefully again, Section 5.......deposited with a bank totaling not less than Bht 800,000 as of the filing date. This kind of contradicts Section 4 which says Bht 800,000 in a THAI bank for 3 months. Confusing.

The distinction is Section 4 is referencing "annual earnings" with a document showing "evidence of income" as seen in number three in the documents section. Section 5 is referencing evidence of a total amount for three months, without the need to show evidence of income. 

[Tounge Thaied]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:30 AM, ubonjoe said:

It does not say combination but that is what this means.

"(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date."

Annual earnings and funds deposited in a bank are two different things that are totaled up to reach 800k baht.

It's either or... not a combination of both. 

The distinction is Section 4 is referencing "annual earnings" with a document showing "evidence of income" as seen in number three in the documents section. Section 5 is referencing evidence of a total amount for three months, without the need to show evidence of income. 

[Tounge Thaied]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:38 AM, mikosan said:

Or maybe that is what it has been interpreted to mean.  Equally it could be interpreted the way I have suggested.  That's why lawyers make so much money and judges sometimes seem to make peculiar judgements, it's a matter of interpretation and establishing case law.  But whatever, I respect your knowledge on this and related subjects.  Let's wait and see what happens.

It's either or... not a combination of both. 

The distinction is Section 4 is referencing "annual earnings" with a document showing "evidence of income" as seen in number three in the documents section. Section 5 is referencing evidence of a total amount for three months, without the need to show evidence of income. 

[Tounge Thaied]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:59 AM, Pawpcorn said:

I tried to show bankbook with a past years worth ofregular monthly Social Security transfers to the Direct Deposit account Bangkok Bank had set up expressedly for that function, as well as the letter from SSA that stated my monthly payments... and they refused to look at either item... saying they would ONLY accept the Notarized Letter from American Embassy... as proof of monthly income. This at Udon Thani Immigration. I was told that his boss was in discussions with American authorities about alternative "proof of monthly income" but nothing had been decided, as of yet.

 

Very difficult to have any decent sleep, since this past Monday.

 

Pawpcorn

That simply means they are still accepting the Affidavit for now. Those discussions will likely remove the affidavit requirement option though. When is anyone's guess. 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Tounge Thaied said:

It's either or... not a combination of both. 

The distinction is Section 4 is referencing "annual earnings" with a document showing "evidence of income" as seen in number three in the documents section. Section 5 is referencing evidence of a total amount for three months, without the need to show evidence of income. 

It is a combination of income/cash in the bank. (3) is income. (4) is cash in the bank. (5) is a combination of 3&4.

 

It’s clearer on this immigration FAQ website:

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        1.  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

[Tounge Thaied]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is a combination of income/cash in the bank. (3) is income. (4) is cash in the bank. (5) is a combination of 3&4.

 

It’s clearer on this immigration FAQ website:

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        1.  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

Ahh... nice clarification. Thanks. I was considering this...

Time to use our 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56
 

[chingmai331]

Money market earning 2.5%?  maybe in Zimbabwe. Even the highest earner in USA just reaches 2% and most go at 1.5%, approx.

Why dream of beefsteak when chicken wings are prevalent. 

[elviajero]

A report from an Aussie getting an extension without an income letter.

 

 

[JimGant]

Morgandave said:

"I think it fair so say that when the dust settles, there will be a way to prove income without an embassy letter. "

 

Of course. Not necessarily income earned (and kept abroad), but cash flow coming into Thailand.

 

And TI certainly knows the problems now arising: The solid expat, who has been using the embassy letter income route, no longer can go that route (because he's Danish, or who finds out too late the Brit, US, and AUS embassies will no longer issue the income letter). And, he no longer has time to season 800k (even if he had it) before renewal time.

Certainly TI will throw a bone to these folks, as most are the type Thailand wants to keep here -- there's plenty of time to weed out the phonies after the phase in period.

 

And the phase in period? Heck, waive the 3 month seasoning period. Or, just show you now have a Thai bank account, with at least one 65k deposit in the month prior to renewal. This will calm the waters

 

Then, 12 months later, at your next renewal time, the rubber hits the road: Either the 800k for 3 months, or a passbook that shows deposits averaging 65k for 12 months. Or some combo of the above.

 

I'm sure the reason TI has been so slow with new implementation rulings is because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate, e.g. average 30k per month into Thai account, plus evidence of income abroad).

 

Who knows. We're all blowing smoke on this thread. But I think it's safe to say: Money in the bank in Thailand, in some form, is in our future.

[sambum]

19 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Morgandave said:

"I think it fair so say that when the dust settles, there will be a way to prove income without an embassy letter. "

 

Of course. Not necessarily income earned (and kept abroad), but cash flow coming into Thailand.

 

And TI certainly knows the problems now arising: The solid expat, who has been using the embassy letter income route, no longer can go that route (because he's Danish, or who finds out too late the Brit, US, and AUS embassies will no longer issue the income letter). And, he no longer has time to season 800k (even if he had it) before renewal time.

Certainly TI will throw a bone to these folks, as most are the type Thailand wants to keep here -- there's plenty of time to weed out the phonies after the phase in period.

 

And the phase in period? Heck, waive the 3 month seasoning period. Or, just show you now have a Thai bank account, with at least one 65k deposit in the month prior to renewal. This will calm the waters

 

Then, 12 months later, at your next renewal time, the rubber hits the road: Either the 800k for 3 months, or a passbook that shows deposits averaging 65k for 12 months. Or some combo of the above.

 

I'm sure the reason TI has been so slow with new implementation rulings is because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate, e.g. average 30k per month into Thai account, plus evidence of income abroad).

 

Who knows. We're all blowing smoke on this thread. But I think it's safe to say: Money in the bank in Thailand, in some form, is in our future.

"because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate,"

 

Yes - definitely too hard  to integrate as they won't be issuing them any more!

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, sambum said:

"because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate,"

 

Yes - definitely too hard  to integrate as they won't be issuing them any more!

Up until now only 4 embassies have stopped issuing the letters, it may be more later but let us stick to the facts as they are at the moment. I can see further acceptance of the letters as long as they are issued, for citizens of countries who no longer receive letters different proof of income will be needed. We know nothing at the moment but I am sure TI is looking at alternatives, with the exception of Denmark there is still time.

[sambum]

34 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Up until now only 4 embassies have stopped issuing the letters, it may be more later but let us stick to the facts as they are at the moment. I can see further acceptance of the letters as long as they are issued, for citizens of countries who no longer receive letters different proof of income will be needed. We know nothing at the moment but I am sure TI is looking at alternatives, with the exception of Denmark there is still time.

"And TI certainly knows the problems now arising: The solid expat, who has been using the embassy letter income route, no longer can go that route (because he's Danish, or who finds out too late the Brit, US, and AUS embassies will no longer issue the income letter)." 

 

"I'm sure the reason TI has been so slow with new implementation rulings is because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate, "

 

I was referring to the fact that it would be rather difficult for the ex pats who acquired their letters from the Embassies mentioned in the post! 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by sambum

[tropo]

56 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Up until now only 4 embassies have stopped issuing the letters, it may be more later but let us stick to the facts as they are at the moment. I can see further acceptance of the letters as long as they are issued, for citizens of countries who no longer receive letters different proof of income will be needed. We know nothing at the moment but I am sure TI is looking at alternatives, with the exception of Denmark there is still time.

Let's hope so. I'll be getting my letter from the Oz Embassy 6 months early, hoping to use it for a July extension renewal. At least I have time to season 800k if need be. No Australians need to be caught out without time to season 800k as the embassy is issuing income letters into the first week of January. They say they won't issue stat decs for income from January 7, so that leaves 3 appointment dates in January - the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. There doesn't seem to be any panic though as 31 slots (out of a possible 42) are still available as I write this. The last 3 days in December are also still wide open, and the rest of December too. 

[tropo]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:56 AM, chingmai331 said:

Money market earning 2.5%?  maybe in Zimbabwe. Even the highest earner in USA just reaches 2% and most go at 1.5%, approx.

Why dream of beefsteak when chicken wings are prevalent. 

LOL> I can get 2.65% in Australia with a regular bank account handled online. I'm sure there's plenty higher if one searches the market. I suppose that's about a month's rent for the average expat on 800k (21200 baht). Then you'll save about 1700 for an income letter and a trip to Bangkok. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by tropo

[JohnnyBD]

51 minutes ago, tropo said:

LOL> I can get 2.65% in Australia with a regular bank account handled online. I'm sure there's plenty higher if one searches the market. I suppose that's about a month's rent for the average expat on 800k (21200 baht). Then you'll save about 1700 for an income letter and a trip to Bangkok. 

The difference between 2.65% in Australia versus 2.50% on 800k in Thailand over a year's time is about 1,200 THB. Is that really enough to worry about?

Edited November 17, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

LOL> I can get 2.65% in Australia with a regular bank account handled online. I'm sure there's plenty higher if one searches the market. I suppose that's about a month's rent for the average expat on 800k (21200 baht). Then you'll save about 1700 for an income letter and a trip to Bangkok. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The difference between 2.65% in Australia versus 2.50% on 800k in Thailand over a year's time is about 1,200 THB. Is that really enough to worry about?

Who pays 2.50% in Thailand and for what kind of an account? Only some kinds of accounts are accepted by immigration, the money has to accessible and not locked away. Also, you will pay tax on the 2.50%.

Edited November 17, 2018 by giddyup

[onera1961]

20 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The difference between 2.65% in Australia versus 2.50% on 800k in Thailand over a year's time is about 1,200 THB. Is that really enough to worry about?

Which bank in Thailand gives 2.5%? 

[tropo]

48 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The difference between 2.65% in Australia versus 2.50% on 800k in Thailand over a year's time is about 1,200 THB. Is that really enough to worry about?

I'm not worried about bank account interest rates at all. 0% or 2.65% or 2.50%... it's all peanuts.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

LOL> I can get 2.65% in Australia with a regular bank account handled online. I'm sure there's plenty higher if one searches the market. I suppose that's about a month's rent for the average expat on 800k (21200 baht). Then you'll save about 1700 for an income letter and a trip to Bangkok. 

LOL??? the Aussie-Dollar lost about 30% vs. Thai Baht in the last five years? for the arithmetically handicapped that's an average loss of 6% per annum. 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Naam

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

LOL??? the Aussie-Dollar lost about 30% vs. Thai Baht in the last five years? for the arithmetically handicapped that's an average loss of 6% per annum. 

 

 

 

To grasp the LOL you need to see the post I replied to.

 

"Money market earning 2.5%?  maybe in Zimbabwe. Even the highest earner in USA just reaches 2% and most go at 1.5%, approx.

Why dream of beefsteak when chicken wings are prevalent."

 

It's not mathematics you need to understand, but context. The LOL was in reply to the "Zimbabwe" and "beefsteak" and "chicken wings".

 

Now considering you had to shout (bold text) your last post about the loss of the AUD against THB in 5 years and even provide a bright yellow chart along with insults, let's address that...

 

It's all about perspective and how long you've been here...

 

I've been here for 13 years. Here's a 10-year AUD/THB chart that shows that I'm 7.30% better off today (23.80 close) than I was on Nov 22, 2008 (22.18 close).

 

 

Also, you'll note that even on your 5-year chart, for 80% (Feb 2015 to present date) of the time the exchange rate was ranging in a narrow band, and never much higher than it was today. The high rates you're showing from 5 years ago were correlated to the AUDUSD, which was an unusually high period considering the history of the currency pair. I'm sorry I couldn't paint the chart yellow, but I'll spare you the bold type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Naam]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

I'm sorry I couldn't paint the chart yellow, but I'll spare you the bold type.

i don't pain charts yellow. it's the website that insults you.

 

check with a mouse-click:

 

https://www.comdirect.de/inf/waehrungen/detail/chart.html?timeSpan=5Y&ID_NOTATION=8327735

 

as for the rest of your yada-yada, especially using the peak of the 2008 crisis for a comparison with the US-Dollar i consider my time too precious to comment in details and of course to avoid "insults". 

 

summary: facts are facts.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Naam