New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[lamyai3]

53 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

How did you get an extension the last several years if a person needs 65,000 baht monthly? £1000 is approx. half that amount.

I'm not talking about myself, I'm nowhere near 75, and I can bring in the required income if I decide to use that method. But your comments completely ignore the large number of long-term older expats who had planned for their retirement prudently and have been hit by poor exchange rates, in spite of them still having plenty enough to live on. 

[Fex Bluse]

9 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Fixed income account 2%.  Given the fall of your currency against the baht how much is the real interest rate at home?

You are non stop in your defense of everything these silly folks do.

 

There are a metric TONNE of investments that yield better than 2% -- all over the world. There are better places to park money -- especially now that they don't even intend for you to use half of it in the case of the new rules requiring you to keep 400K tied up. Show me another country that has such silly rules.

[stanleycoin]

35 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

 

Maybe soon they'll promote him and hand him the reins of something more important. My suggestion is to put him in charge of the air pollution crisis and solving Bangkok's traffic problems. Fix these and he'd be a real hero of the people. 

Maybe better suited as,  Head Monk

He can then root out the pedophiles, drugs, alcohol and thieves. 

[dotpoom]

14 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Will this lot end up in the file cabinet marked ''It's all been a terrible misunderstanding '' ?

No!....that excuse is reserved only for "The Donald".

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, dotpoom said:

No!....that excuse is reserved only for "The Donald".

Darn, get over it!

[Fex Bluse]

10 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

You can also keep most of your money in your homeland and deposit/transfer funds 65,000 baht into a Thai account each month. What's the issue? Of course if you don't qualify for a retirement visa that's another story.

The issues for many (not me), at a high level, include the following:

 

1. They deny retirees the opportunity to work and earn an income in the country

2. The local investments are horrible and poorly managed in their tiny stock market riddled with corruption in insider trading

3. They deny retirees the ability to securely own their own property (and land)

4. They provide no reasonable long-term option that is not year-by-year

5. Now they are encouraging retirees to make a decision between locking up a significant amount of money for many in what is effectively a loss-making account or subjecting themselves to the instability of the currency markets and fluctuations

6. Further, transferring money into and out of Thailand easily is complicated by the fact that Thailand is on nearly every global financial list of "trouble countries" requiring correspondent banks and other workarounds -- where in stable, better placed countries, one can simply use one of the many services (like Paypal and others) to move money around with minimal fees and with maximal speed.

 

Edit:

7. Finally, the rules and regulations keep changing, and these clowns in the bureaucracy can't even agree on them putting many retirees in a high anxiety situation not knowing what to expect or when the rules will change again, randomly, without much planning or other thought process, and impact them negatively.

8. Now they are also thinking up brainless healthcare requirements that force retirees to opt into what will almost surely be poor health insurance options.

 

Are those enough issues?

[melvinmelvin]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the thing that changed. the money now not only needs to be seasoned in advance (seemingly 2 rather than 3 months) but also cannot be touched for 3 months after, and even then only half of it can ever be spent.

 

it is basically a 400K bond that has to be posted and maintained. But badly worded/designed.

how will this be policed?

 

bringing updated passbooks every time you do a 90-day?

 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

I'm not talking about myself, I'm nowhere near 75, and I can bring in the required income if I decide to use that method. But your comments completely ignore the large number of long-term older expats who had planned for their retirement prudently and have been hit by poor exchange rates, in spite of them still having plenty enough to live on. 

Risk of exchange rate variations is part of the expat experience. Prudence or otherwise one's own factoring in. Nobody else's responsibility.

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Don't you think the foreigners/farangs are getting worse as well with their disrespect of Thai people, Thai culture, Thai laws, etc?   

Raucous foreigners (generally tourists) have always been around in Thailand and everywhere else, but if you're seeing a rise in sensationalist reports recently put it down to the explosion of social media. The old timers I know here understand pretty well how the place works and are typically very respectful, knowing how to get along with the locals without any chance of being taken for a ride.

 

As to Thai laws, few people have disdain for them more than the Thais themselves do, clobbered by them daily in all sorts of ways. If the law is an ass, in Thailand it's an ass pumped full of steroids and botox, well deserving of whatever constructive criticism gets thrown it's way. The same is true of the bastardisation of Thai culture in all sorts of ways. One example is the proliferation of bad monk stories here in recent years - no one laments these kinds of reports more than the average respectable Thai.

[GAZZPA]

14 hours ago, Banana7 said:

If you don't like the new rules, consider the Philippines Special Resident Retiree’s Visa (SRRV).  Search here on Thaivisa for "SRRV" to learn more.

 

Just read this, seems simpler and fairer then Thailand, not to mention cheaper. Deposit is a one time 20,000 usd and you can withdraw and invest locally with it. Seems much better then Thailands ever complicated visa application processes. Seems the new rules are simply designed to push out the foreigners, well it's working a treat so they should be applauded for their success.

 

I also hear quite a few retirees going to Spain, heard this a lot now as Asia is just not worth the effort for what is not a lot cheaper and frankly Spains weather is better. Also, if European then easier for language and healthcare.

 

I still work here but hearing the retirees around me unless you are stuck with family time to get out of LOS.

[maccastime]

So many stupid changes why make it so difficult for people to retire in Thailand in peace? After all they arrive cashed up and spend monies? And assist many Thai businesses, but no keep on messing about and upsetting many... wake up

[Pattaya46]

45 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The issues for many (not me), at a high level, include the following:

...
Are those enough issues?

 

> 1. They deny retirees the opportunity to work and earn an income in the country

Not true. Many possibilities of investments. Most of my used income now comes from the Stock Exchange of Thailand.

 

> 2. The local investments are horrible and poorly managed in their tiny stock market riddled with corruption in insider trading

BS! The SET is very strict with zero corruption, very well managed and documented, easy to use and to make profits.

 

> 4. They provide no reasonable long-term option that is not year-by-year

Elite Visa is very long term and used by about 6'000 people already

 

> 5. Now they are encouraging retirees to make a decision between locking up a significant amount of money for many in what is effectively a loss-making account or subjecting themselves to the instability of the currency markets and fluctuations

800k untouched on a Fixed Deposit Account was already a popular option; it just will become more popular. Many don't see that as a problem. And checking the exchange rate before doing your transfer just takes seconds...

 

> 6. Further, transferring money into and out of Thailand easily is complicated by the fact that Thailand is on nearly every global financial list of "trouble countries" requiring correspondent banks and other workarounds //

Change your bank at home. Many banks have no problem (and no questions) sending money to Thailand

 

> 7. Finally, the rules and regulations keep changing, …//

Details of application are changing, but the base of the rules didn't change for decade: If you have an income of 65'000 B you can get extension

 

> 8. Now they are also thinking up brainless healthcare requirements that force retirees to opt into what will almost surely be poor health insurance options.

Nobody talked about that for extensions. How do you know they are thinking about it?

[Just1Voice]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

Are you sure? There was a recent report that this will not be an option at the Jomtien immigration office. Only an Income letter or bank deposit would be accepted.

Did you not understand - I can show a monthly income into a Thai bank ????

[jesimps]

15 hours ago, Banana7 said:

If you don't like the new rules, consider the Philippines Special Resident Retiree’s Visa (SRRV).  Search here on Thaivisa for "SRRV" to learn more.

 

It's my contingency plan for when they drop the compulsory medical insurance bombshell. I can surmount all these new rules where I'm not actually losing money, just having it tied up. However, a couple of hundred thou a year in dead money will finish me here. I'm not too popular with the wife and stepdaughter after putting them on standby for selling the house and leaving them here while I have to beggar off. I've told them to blame their government. I hope I'm not being prescient because I'm happy with my lot at present.

[miamiman123]

Thai banks liquidity?? 

[glennb6]

how many thais earn 400k baht a year/33,333b a month? teachers? police salary? etc? How many thais have 400k and 800k in their bank accounts?

How many destitute foreigners is the thai welfare system supporting? What percentage of 'poor' foreigners get housing/food/health financial assistance from thai govt ?

even the not so wealthy foreigners are a net plus to the economy, and if they cannot afford that, they are kicked out by law.

Still think this is about "quality retirees"? 

[p414]

How are they going to check the accounts.?

Does this mean we must take our bank books to immigration end of every month?plus a verification letter from the bank?..the banks are going to need more staff and immigration are going to need more offices.

[Chicken George]

15 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Gee I wonder why IOs would be pushing back. Nothing to do with kickbacks from agents .. nothing at all.

Kick backs will continue maybe bigger. This will change nothing. 

[HuskerDo]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

The issues for many (not me), at a high level, include the following:

 

1. They deny retirees the opportunity to work and earn an income in the country

2. The local investments are horrible and poorly managed in their tiny stock market riddled with corruption in insider trading

3. They deny retirees the ability to securely own their own property (and land)

4. They provide no reasonable long-term option that is not year-by-year

5. Now they are encouraging retirees to make a decision between locking up a significant amount of money for many in what is effectively a loss-making account or subjecting themselves to the instability of the currency markets and fluctuations

6. Further, transferring money into and out of Thailand easily is complicated by the fact that Thailand is on nearly every global financial list of "trouble countries" requiring correspondent banks and other workarounds -- where in stable, better placed countries, one can simply use one of the many services (like Paypal and others) to move money around with minimal fees and with maximal speed.

 

Edit:

7. Finally, the rules and regulations keep changing, and these clowns in the bureaucracy can't even agree on them putting many retirees in a high anxiety situation not knowing what to expect or when the rules will change again, randomly, without much planning or other thought process, and impact them negatively.

8. Now they are also thinking up brainless healthcare requirements that force retirees to opt into what will almost surely be poor health insurance options.

 

Are those enough issues?

1. Who cares about working if you are living in Thailand and retired.

2. No one is asking you to invest your money there. It's still allowable to transfer 65,000 per month.

3. Not true. You can own a condo if you desire.

4. Agreed.

5. see #2.

6. Not true. Many people have no problem doing it.

7. Agreed.

8. No proof of this as of yet however everyone should have healthcare insurance. You can't assume the healthcare options will be poor until the options are laid out.

[nobodysfriend]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the thing that changed. the money now not only needs to be seasoned in advance (seemingly 2 rather than 3 months) but also cannot be touched for 3 months after, and even then only half of it can ever be spent.

 

it is basically a 400K bond that has to be posted and maintained. But badly worded/designed.

I have an open end fund with SCB called +A , SCB pays about 1,5% and the money is always available . And it is accepted by Immigration . It just needs to be more than 8 cen baht ...

 

[HuskerDo]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I have an open end fund with SCB called +A , SCB pays about 1,5% and the money is always available . And it is accepted by Immigration . It just needs to be more than 8 cen baht ...

 

What/Who is SCB and what is your definition of an open end fund in Thailand? Thanks! 

[Zack61]

15 hours ago, Banana7 said:

If you don't like the new rules, consider the Philippines Special Resident Retiree’s Visa (SRRV).  Search here on Thaivisa for "SRRV" to learn more.

 

I’m sure it will get a lot of hits. 

[jacko45k]

Just now, HuskerDo said:

What/Who is SCB and what is your definition of an open end fund in Thailand? Thanks! 

I would guess Siam Commercial Bank.

[yellowboat]

Or the self reliant.  Molesting the goose while their neighbors do the opposite.  Spending more time in Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia would be the remedy .

[reargunnerph3]

I can see Cambodia and The Pines becoming very popular

[Pattaya46]

7 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Or the self reliant.  Molesting the goose while their neighbors do the opposite.  Spending more time in Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia would be the remedy .

4 minutes ago, reargunnerph3 said:

I can see Cambodia and The Pines becoming very popular

...

I really would like that all the members continuously promoting nearby countries move there once for all.

This would stop these too many out-of-subject posts in important immigration threads...  

[Chassa]

Can you still use your overseas pension (40000 per month) as part of your 800000 baht annual donation to the cause?

[crazykopite]

My nephew stayed with me in the Kingdom for 6 months he absolutely loved the place he then went to New Zealand and although he liked it said it was way to costly . For the past 3 months he has been living in Argentina and tells me it is way cheaper than Thailand and that it is an amazing place to live so maybe the time has come for me to look to greener pastures or convert to a multi entry and take a nice holiday 4 times a year.

[skatewash]

10 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

BJ was not yet head of immigration last May, but as head of tourist police his role of regular crackdowns and shake-ups was very similar to what it is now. It's well known that he's long since been golden boy to the xenophobic DPM and that he's pretty much following the briefing given to him.

 

I agree these embassies have let down their citizens very badly, and the resulting two tier system is grossly unfair. But they didn't just suddenly decide to embark on this new tighter interpretation of the rules by themselves - income letters were a nice little earner for them, involving minimal administration. The UK embassy described the meeting in May vaguely, not due to slapdash record keeping but for diplomatic reasons, and their comments implied they had no choice in the matter. This was the same month the UK embarrassed Thailand by issuing a ten year visa to it's second most wanted fugitive while ignoring all extradition requests, so it's hard not to join the dots. 

So we agree that BJ was not involved in the discussions with the embassies in May 2018.

 

According to the vice consul of the BE in her radio interview, the decision was a result of an FCO audit that was looking to streamline services offered by the BE.  In their opinion, the income letter was unnecessary and duplicative because there was a lump-sum method that accomplished the same result.  Her words.

 

When responding to FOIA requests the government doesn't get to conceal evidence even for diplomatic reasons.  Accepting they are not lying in their response they didn't take any notes.  Why was that?

 

If the Thais were upset (rightly, IMHO) about issuing the visa to a fugitive from justice, then how do you explain the US, Australian, and Danish decisions.  Surely Thai immigration was not out to get them for the same reason, that's a very large number of dots to connect, indeed.  

 

So I guess we may have to disagree about those details, but I'm glad to find common ground in that we both believe the embassies let down their citizens very badly and decry the unfair two-tier system that resulted from the embassies decisions.

[HuskerDo]

5 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

My nephew stayed with me in the Kingdom for 6 months he absolutely loved the place he then went to New Zealand and although he liked it said it was way to costly . For the past 3 months he has been living in Argentina and tells me it is way cheaper than Thailand and that it is an amazing place to live so maybe the time has come for me to look to greener pastures or convert to a multi entry and take a nice holiday 4 times a year.

Not safe in Argentina...

 

Crime rates in Argentina

Level of crime	73.40	High
Problem people using or dealing drugs	64.23	High
Problem property crimes such as vandalism and theft	70.04	High
Problem violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery	71.09	High
Problem corruption and bribery	85.37	Very High