Do you believe in God and why

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Good post.
Little piece of advice...don't waste your time with this kind of posts/posters. After trolling this thread for quite a while, regular posters (believers and non-believers alike) have learned to ignore him and have chosen to have a mature discussion instead of childish ramblings.

Mature discussion??? Please... 

 

Only ones who ignore my posts are the 4 or 5 "Woo-sters" here whom can't back up their unsubstantiated claims with anything more than unsubstantiated magical, mystical ramblings...then take their toys and stomp home when challenged. 

[VincentRJ]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have many examples of how a higher power has protected me, and one time stopped me losing an eye. 

Unexplainable by "science" yet happened.

Really! That's amazing! So you provided the full details of the circumstances to scientists, including video footage of the events, yet the scientists were unable to explain 'why and how' what happened. Wow! A true miracle! ????

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Really! That's amazing! So you provided the full details of the circumstances to scientists, including video footage of the events, yet the scientists were unable to explain 'why and how' what happened. Wow! A true miracle! ????

Replies like that are why I won't be responding to you in future.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

If the saving of one's life, and the offer of eternal life, are childish things, then I wish to be a child forever.

 

Many years ago, when I was yet a child and my family was poor, we did something special for my brother's birthday--go to Pizza Hut.  With our large family and our financial situation, this was a rare event indeed!  On the way, however, while Dad was driving in the passing lane of a four-lane road, divided only by the double yellow stripes in the middle, a pickup beside us, whose driver did not see us, changed into our lane to pass the car ahead of it.  Dad did not see the pickup, as it was in the car's blind spot.  Suddenly, however, the steering wheel turned, putting us in the oncoming lane, though no cars were in it.  Dad was quite surprised.  He turned to me, sitting in the front passenger seat, to ask if I had jerked the wheel.  I hadn't.  I hadn't seen the pickup coming either.  My mother, in the back seat and holding two of my brothers, one in each arm, also said she hadn't turned the wheel, nor could have, as her arms were full.  My sister, and one brother in the seat behind her, who were both sitting on the side of the pickup, had thought they would be hit.  They might have been killed.  Had our car rolled as a result of the accident, more of us might have been killed.  But we had no accident because a supernatural force had spared us.

 

How would a skeptic explain this event?

 

If you don't believe in God, would you accept angels?

 

In my family, we know that God sent His angel to save us that day.  Before we travel in the car, we like to ask God for His protection.  And God has protected us many times.

So you and your family are the special chosen ones and were saved, while the same "Thing" allows thousands of children to starve to death every week of every year? Allows thousands of others to die horribly in auto accidents, drownings, fires, etc. Allows child abduction, torture, murder, rape and other hideous and unmentionable things to happen around the world every day. Allows unimaginable suffering in infant and children's cancer wards by both the children and the family...BUT saved you and your Family? Well if that isn't proof of a miracle and Divine intervention, then nothing is! 

 

Wow. Just WOW. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, Skeptic7 said:

So you and your family are the special chosen ones and were saved, while the same "Thing" allows thousands of children to starve to death every week of every year? Allows thousands of others to die horribly in auto accidents, drownings, fires, etc. Allows child abduction, torture and other hideous things to happen around the world every day. Allows unimaginable suffering in infant and children's cancer wards by both the children and the family...BUT saved you and your Family? Well if that isn't proof of a miracle and Divine intervention, then nothing is! 

 

Wow. Just WOW. 

Just prove how narrow minded people are, that they deserve something more than others, and it is established in every religion and culture. If not privelaged, it is a test! 

 

Jeeeez

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Just prove how narrow minded people are, that they deserve something more than others, and it is established in every religion and culture. If not privelaged, it is a test! 

 

Jeeeez

As far as i know, nobody claimed they deserve better than others, except, perhaps, in your imagination ????

 

[Skeptic7]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have many examples of how a higher power has protected me, and one time stopped me losing an eye. 

Unexplainable by "science" yet happened.

Of course the sceptics won't believe such things happen, as that would force them to re evaluate their belief.

However, at least one comes on here only to mock, not to debate or persuade.

For once I agree with you...

...don't believe it.

 

Nor accept that you have proof of any such thing. ONLY your subjective opinion and unsubstantiated interpretation of something that turned out favorably for you, while countless others lost an eye. ????

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

As far as i know, nobody claimed they deserve better than others, except, perhaps, in your imagination ????

 

Please, try again. Im not even going to try to explain to you a simple fact, that every religion and life philosophy comes with promissed benefits! 

[AsianAtHeart]

Mr. Skeptic,

God loves everyone, including those starving children.  He has the power to save everyone, including those children.  But until the Great War is over, many unfair things will happen on account of God's great enemy, Satan.  We, as humans, are caught in the middle of this war for one simple reason:  Satan knows that by hurting us, God's children, he can hurt God more than fighting against God directly.  If you are a parent, you might understand this, as you would rather someone strike you than strike your child.

The war exists because God's greatest gift to His creation is the freedom of choice.  If God forced us to keep His law, there would be no starving children, no horrible deaths from accidents, drownings, fires, etc.  But there would be no true happiness.  People would see God as a forceful God whose law must never be broken or else He would strike them dead instantly.  For God to show that He is fair, and that His law is the law of love, He was obliged to permit that which He hates--sin.  Satan chose to sin, and others watched to see what would result.  God knew the result of sin before it even started, but to the naive watching universe, only seeing it with their own eyes would give them the same knowledge.  When all have been amply persuaded as to the results of sin, and when no doubt remains regarding the fairness of God's law, the Great War will be finished.  God will put an end to sin and sinners forever.  From then on, everyone will live in perfect happiness, and will never desire to sin again.

Meanwhile, God must allow the results of sinful choices.  The universe must witness these results for itself.  When God's people pray, and when it serves God's cause best, He can protect them.  But for those who do not serve Him, though He loves them, too, He must leave them to the results of their own choices--because, above all, He respects the freedom of choice.

The freedom of choice is granted you as well.  Precisely because God is a Gentleman, and will not force you against your will, He permits there to be sufficient room to disbelieve in Him, if you do not wish to accept Him.  Therefore, you may be a Skeptic, and there will not be any incontrovertible "proof" of God's existence to force you to believe in God.  Nonetheless, for those like myself who do believe, God has revealed Himself in many tangible ways, ways that clearly prove to my own mind His existence and love.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have many examples of how a higher power has protected me, and one time stopped me losing an eye. 

Unexplainable by "science" yet happened.

Of course the sceptics won't believe such things happen, as that would force them to re evaluate their belief.

However, at least one comes on here only to mock, not to debate or persuade.

Instincts like every animal have, created in your genes and dna for thousands, million, and billions of years, so our anchestors survived the harsh inviroment back in ancients time. Our data bank is full of memory from those times. Call it god, fine for me, but most likely we are much more advanced than we can believe, same as animals. We are not the only intelligent lifeform on this planet, and even more complexed life exist than ours. Mother earth is her name with everything she have created by collecting space dust. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Tagged

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Please, try again. Im not even going to try to explain to you a simple fact, that every religion and life philosophy comes with promissed benefits! 

Yes, but the "promised benefits" don't include things like winning the lottery, or being safe from all misfortunes.

The benefits regard the inner peace, not much to do with the material world ????

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, but the "promised benefits" don't include things like winning the lottery, or being safe from all misfortunes.

The benefits regard the inner peace, not much to do with the material world ????

I believe you missed out of the majority of western christianity where they claim exectly that. And also you have missed to read the basics from what I believe is the major religion influenced every modern religion Hinduism. You get what you deserved based on your previous life and your deeds. Paying and praying for luck, do it ring a bell? Gods chosen people? And alot more. Wake up

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I believe you missed out of the majority of western christianity where they claim exectly that. And also you have missed to read the basics from what I believe is the major religion influenced every modern religion Hinduism. You get what you deserved based on your previous life and your deeds. Paying and praying for luck, do it ring a bell? Gods chosen people? And alot more. Wake up

Well, as you seem to know everything, perhaps i am not worth enough to discuss with you

[Tagged]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, as you seem to know everything, perhaps i am not worth enough to discuss with you

Simple question, does religion or such as budhism promise benefits? 

 

Do this sound familar to you? "give and you will receive 10 fold" just as one simple example, and there is thousands of other promises for deeds, and if you just believe strong enough. 

 

 

[Tagged]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, as you seem to know everything, perhaps i am not worth enough to discuss with you

It is you who tried to fire me up with your belief of my imagination. Just reminding you simple facts. 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

Simple question, does religion or such as budhism promise benefits? 

 

Do this sound familar to you? "give and you will receive 10 fold" just as one simple example, and there is thousands of other promises for deeds, and if you just believe strong enough. 

 

 

I replied already, why don't you try to understand what i mean, instead of ranting ?

The benefits, as you call them, are for the spiritual world.

I one goes to the temple and pray to win a lottery, i regard him/her as a superstitious moron.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

It is you who tried to fire me up with your belief of my imagination. Just reminding you simple facts. 

I can try to explain, seriously, please try to understand.

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I replied already, why don't you try to understand what i mean, instead of ranting ?

The benefits, as you call them, are for the spiritual world.

I one goes to the temple and pray to win a lottery, i regard him/her as a superstitious moron.

Who are you to regard people as morons, when their teachers and trusted ones lead them that way! Do you put yourselves higher than other people, because you have understood? 

 

I know you and me aggree on many things, but people are people, and most people need guidance, but unfortenaly they find it in wrong places, where their being taken advantages of. Religion is such a tool. 

 

You and me can choose, and live by thought, and do not need to admit 100% to anything to feel fullfied. Or what? We can evaluate things with common sence right? Others or many do not have that privilige, and buy gold to put on statues for maybe some luck in future. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Who are you to regard people as morons, when their teachers and trusted ones lead them that way! Do you put yourselves higher than other people, because you have understood? 

 

I know you and me aggree on many things, but people are people, and most people need guidance, but unfortenaly they find it in wrong places, where their being taken advantages of. Religion is such a tool. 

 

You and me can choose, and live by thought, and do not need to admit 100% to anything to feel fullfied. Or what? We can evaluate things with common sence right? Others or many do not have that privilige, and buy gold to put on statues for maybe some luck in future. 

I don't think that i am better than others, that would be wrong.

Yet i believe that if i look for the truth, and i consider the truth as the highest goal, the truth will come to me.

You can call it how you like, that is not important.

Other people may crave for money, fame, or beautiful lovers, for me the truth is n.1.

[Tagged]

29 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't think that i am better than others, that would be wrong.

Yet i believe that if i look for the truth, and i consider the truth as the highest goal, the truth will come to me.

You can call it how you like, that is not important.

Other people may crave for money, fame, or beautiful lovers, for me the truth is n.1.

And then again, whats truth for you, is not the same truth for the majority of this planet. The mojority of this planet belongs to a belief system who promiss benefits. 

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Mr. Skeptic,

God loves everyone, including those starving children.  He has the power to save everyone, including those children.  But until the Great War is over, many unfair things will happen on account of God's great enemy, Satan.  We, as humans, are caught in the middle of this war for one simple reason:  Satan knows that by hurting us, God's children, he can hurt God more than fighting against God directly.  If you are a parent, you might understand this, as you would rather someone strike you than strike your child.

The war exists because God's greatest gift to His creation is the freedom of choice.  If God forced us to keep His law, there would be no starving children, no horrible deaths from accidents, drownings, fires, etc.  But there would be no true happiness.  People would see God as a forceful God whose law must never be broken or else He would strike them dead instantly.  For God to show that He is fair, and that His law is the law of love, He was obliged to permit that which He hates--sin.  Satan chose to sin, and others watched to see what would result.  God knew the result of sin before it even started, but to the naive watching universe, only seeing it with their own eyes would give them the same knowledge.  When all have been amply persuaded as to the results of sin, and when no doubt remains regarding the fairness of God's law, the Great War will be finished.  God will put an end to sin and sinners forever.  From then on, everyone will live in perfect happiness, and will never desire to sin again.

Meanwhile, God must allow the results of sinful choices.  The universe must witness these results for itself.  When God's people pray, and when it serves God's cause best, He can protect them.  But for those who do not serve Him, though He loves them, too, He must leave them to the results of their own choices--because, above all, He respects the freedom of choice.

The freedom of choice is granted you as well.  Precisely because God is a Gentleman, and will not force you against your will, He permits there to be sufficient room to disbelieve in Him, if you do not wish to accept Him.  Therefore, you may be a Skeptic, and there will not be any incontrovertible "proof" of God's existence to force you to believe in God.  Nonetheless, for those like myself who do believe, God has revealed Himself in many tangible ways, ways that clearly prove to my own mind His existence and love.

 I like what you say, but I would expand it to say that this world of hardships is for all of us, and God is as interested in the lost as He is the those who are saved. The Bible suggest even more so. And His children all experience the trouble in this world as it is the method through which we are refined. Until we see past ourselves and to the truth. Mercy abounds for the lost and many times they will be spared misfortune, so that they may continue to have every opportunity for revelation.

Every Christian gets sick, every Christian dies. Yet there is also times of intervention and blessing. But we can not claim we are removed from the tragedies of the world. It is not benefits of this life that matter, but the benefits of the next. And our eyes should be focused on the eternal, not the temporal. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by canuckamuck

[Tagged]

25 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

  It is not benefits of this life that matter, but the benefits of the next. And our eyes should be focused on the eternal, not the temporal. 

Thank you, the promissed benefits, but also promissed for this life as well by many preachers. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Tagged

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Thank you, the promissed benefits, but also promissed for this life as well by many preachers. 

It is not that there are no benefits in this life. There are benefits for believers. But they are not to be conjured up by anyone with a request. Even Jesus limited His miracles because the miracles were not what was important. Many people get off track and promise things that may or may not happen. The last couple of decades there have been some unfortunate trends in preaching.

Anytime the focus is material, things start to go south.

[mauGR1]

42 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And then again, whats truth for you, is not the same truth for the majority of this planet. The mojority of this planet belongs to a belief system who promiss benefits. 

What is the truth is obviously open to discussion.

However i am not very concerned about what the majority of people believe, sometimes i have to accept that what is true for you may be different for me.

[Tagged]

30 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

What is the truth is obviously open to discussion.

However i am not very concerned about what the majority of people believe, sometimes i have to accept that what is true for you may be different for me.

Care enough to debunk my post, and mention my imaginary mind about benefits and Vip service of believers. 

 

Historical, being member of the right club, gives benefits, and even today, not a single president of America would win a election without giving a hand out to the christians. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Care enough to debunk my post, and mention my imaginary mind about benefits and Vip service of believers. 

 

Historical, being member of the right club, gives benefits, and even today, not a single president of America would win a election without giving a hand out to the christians. 

 

 

Really, i don't know what you are on about.

I hope you find someone who understands you

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Replies like that are why I won't be responding to you in future.

Sorry! Didn't realize you were so sensitive. I was just trying to communicate the standards for determining that something cannot be explained by science. It's usually due to a lack of data. ☹️

[Neeranam]

Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.”

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Tagged said:

Please, try again. Im not even going to try to explain to you a simple fact, that every religion and life philosophy comes with promissed benefits! 

Those benefits are available to all that live according to the rules. Money or power won't give an advantage.

Choose not to adhere to the rules don't get the benefits. Your choice.

[mauGR1]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those benefits are available to all that live according to the rules. Money or power won't give an advantage.

Choose not to adhere to the rules don't get the benefits. Your choice.

As a believer, not specifically Christian, or Hindu or Buddhist the only real benefit i can think about, is the faith in some sort of divine justice, which is not apparent in the physical world, at least to my eyes.

Christians, Hindus, and Buddhist all believe that life doesn't finish with the demise of the physical body, although the description of the after-life is different.

But religion, spirituality, faith, are extremely individual stuff, we could study the same book for decades, and still come to different conclusions about the reality of God and divine justice.