Johnson warns EU against any 'Napoleonic' tariffs in no-deal Brexit

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, bannork said:

Well it seems the British public don't agree with your definition, the vast majority preferring a soft Brexit, May's or none at all.

Top and bottom of it is if the Tories don't deliver a satisfactory Brexit, they are toast. You do understand that if we are tied to the EU in any way whatsoever, that is not Brexit. I am sure the British public can be quite accomodating and would settle for any of the leave choices as long as we leave.

[SheungWan]

Top and bottom of it is if the Tories don't deliver a satisfactory Brexit, they are toast. You do understand that if we are tied to the EU in any way whatsoever, that is not Brexit. I am sure the British public can be quite accomodating and would settle for any of the leave choices as long as we leave.

All except no-deal then it would be burnt toast.

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[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Top and bottom of it is if the Tories don't deliver a satisfactory Brexit, they are toast. You do understand that if we are tied to the EU in any way whatsoever, that is not Brexit. I am sure the British public can be quite accomodating and would settle for any of the leave choices as long as we leave.

I think to be honest, if the Tories deliver Brexit, they are toast and if they don't they are toast. 

 

All that really matters is the tax avoidance. 

[SheungWan]

I think you are 'over egging the pudding' on the definition of leave.
Leave means: "If you leave an institution, group, or job, you permanently stopattending that institution, being a member of that group, or doing that job."
It doesn't say you permanently leave but go back in on a Saturday morning to make the tea.

The Brexiteer Ladybird Guide to Understanding Very Little At All Other Than Simplistic Nostrums.

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[SheungWan]

Well it seems the British public don't agree with your definition, the vast majority preferring a soft Brexit, May's or none at all.
It seems we can check out but never leave.
Here's a softer version, perhaps Theresa's favourite.
 
[/url]  

There is no majority for Hard Brexit and never has been.

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[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think to be honest, if the Tories deliver Brexit, they are toast and if they don't they are toast. 

 

All that really matters is the tax avoidance. 

So basically going for a no deal would not alter their popularity in the 'I can deliver Brexit stakes.'

Nothing to lose but plenty to gain.

[nontabury]

25 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

There is no majority for Hard Brexit and never has been.

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 I know you have no respect for Democracy and the wishes of the majority,especially if they are northerners,and not members of the 

Islington waffles group. But let’s hear what a typical northerner made of the referendum and the question we were asked to make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

 
 I know you have no respect for Democracy and the wishes of the majority,especially if they are northerners,and not members of the 
Islington waffles group. But let’s hear what a typical northerner made of the referendum and the question we were asked to make.
 
[/url]  
 
 
 
 

Hard Brexiteers have never had a majority on their side. Maybe a majority of Old Grumpies.

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[SheungWan]

So basically going for a no deal would not alter their popularity in the 'I can deliver Brexit stakes.'
Nothing to lose but plenty to gain.

Hard Brexiteers have no majority in Parliament. Plenty to lose.

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[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The key point is that 57% want us out of the EU according to this poll. Despite the anti-Brexit media and big business efforts to scare us into changing our minds, the majority still want out.  

Where do you read that in that chart? According to Brexiteers, neither May’s deal nor a soft Brexit actually mean Brexit; they say it is “leaving in name only”. Therefore, according to that chart, only 28% want to leave the EU. 

 

Otherwise, should I be wrong in my understanding that May’s deal or a soft Brexit are “leaving in name only”, then why don’t you go ahead with one of those options? 

 

Of course, you know perfectly well that there are people who want to leave the EU but only with a soft Brexit or under May’s deal, never without a deal. Intentionally misinterpreting numbers like that is a really poor attempt. 

The poll shows that only 43% want to remain in the EU. And 57% want to LEAVE the EU. All of that 57% are fundamentally Brexiteers, i.e. don't want the UK to stay in the EU. Yes there are mixed views on how to leave, but they all want to leave. 

Remainers cannot keep pretending that the majority want the UK to stay in the EU now. That is clearly wishful thinking, and a much better example of the word 'misinterpreting'. 

[elliss]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

Parliament is the problem, they havent implemented what the electorate voted for 

 

      Because it was not what the people wanted .

       Spin doctors , including farage and bonkers , the tower awaits you .

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

26 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The poll shows that only 43% want to remain in the EU. And 57% want to LEAVE the EU.

That’s not what the poll says. The answering options are not “remain” or “leave” as you’re trying to suggest. For what the poll really shows please refer to the image posted, everything else is (again) intentional misinterpretation.

 

You don’t know how people would respond to such poll (or a referendum) if the question was: “Would you rather remain or leave without a deal if a soft Brexit or May’s deal is being rejected”. Polls like this are pretty useless because both sides, if they want to misinterpret the poll for their cause, can equally claim that those who favor May’s deal or a soft Brexit would rather pick their side than the other in the case May’s deal or a soft Brexit is being ruled out.  

Edited June 30, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[CG1 Blue]

38 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That’s not what the poll says. The answering options are not “remain” or “leave” as you’re trying to suggest. For what the poll really shows please refer to the image posted, everything else is (again) intentional misinterpretation.

 

You don’t know how people would respond to such poll (or a referendum) if the question was: “Would you rather remain or leave without a deal if a soft Brexit or May’s deal is being rejected”. Polls like this are pretty useless because both sides, if they want to misinterpret the poll for their cause, can equally claim that those who favor May’s deal or a soft Brexit would rather pick their side than the other in the case May’s deal or a soft Brexit is being ruled out.  

I actually agree to an extent, but with only 43% opting for Remain it does indicate there is an even lower appetite for staying in the EU than there was in 2016. 

[SheungWan]

The poll shows that only 43% want to remain in the EU. And 57% want to LEAVE the EU. All of that 57% are fundamentally Brexiteers, i.e. don't want the UK to stay in the EU. Yes there are mixed views on how to leave, but they all want to leave. 
Remainers cannot keep pretending that the majority want the UK to stay in the EU now. That is clearly wishful thinking, and a much better example of the word 'misinterpreting'. 

Doesn't get away from Hard Brexit being less than 50%, then, now and next week.

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[Pengo2001]

I wonder why anyone want to become pm in the Uk right now. They cannot accomplish anything. They cannot let the uk leave the eu without a deal. The UK parliament would try to block it and if the still manage to do it they would push the county off the cliff. 

They cannot renegotiate the withdrawal agreement even they always claim they will do it. They cannot ask the EU for a new dead line without looking like a total loser. The only thing the can do is call for a general election which would bring a s8ngle digit result for the Tories.

So whatever a new pm will do - he cannot win anything. So why does anyone want to become pm?

 

(and for the nitpickers here - I am German)

 

[vogie]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers have no majority in Parliament. Plenty to lose.

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And the Brexit Party on the subs bench.

[petemoss]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

And the Brexit Party on the subs bench.

I remember people saying the same about UKIP when Kermit was their leader. Didn't win a single seat in the following GE. Well one, by a defecting Tory MP.

 

Like the groundswell of opinion that was going to make Tommy Robinson the next PM. Absolutely destroyed in the Euro Elections. 2% of the vote.

 

Populists (right wing racists) have very vocal supporters but they are actually small in number. Can do well with a protest vote (as in the Brexit Party in the Euros) but stand no chance of being elected in a GE.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by petemoss

[vogie]

1 minute ago, petemoss said:

I remember people saying the same about UKIP when Kermit was their leader. Didn't win a single seat in the following GE. Well one, by a defecting Tory MP.

 

Like the groundswell of opinion that was going to make Tommy Robinson the next PM. Absolutely destroyed in the Euro Elections. 2% of the vote.

 

Populist (right wing racists) have very vocal supporters but they are actually small in number. Can do well with a protest vote (as in the Breexit Party in the Euros) but stand no chance of being elected in a GE.

Brexit Party and UKIP are totally different, not the same, but it does give you the chance to introduce Tommy Robinson into your arguments.

If you think that the Brexit Party won't do well at a GE, that is due to your wonderfull ability to predict the future, something that most remainers are extremely good at. Are you going to let us in to your little secret, do you dream it or is it your guardian angel that keeps you informed, it can't all be down to your crystal ball.????

[petemoss]

Just now, vogie said:

Brexit Party and UKIP are totally different, not the same, but it does give you the chance to introduce Tommy Robinson into your arguments.

If you think that the Brexit Party won't do well at a GE, that is due to your wonderfull ability to predict the future, something that most remainers are extremely good at. Are you going to let us in to your little secret, do you dream it or is it your guardian angel that keeps you informed, it can't all be down to your crystal ball.????

The new Brexit party is virtually identical to the old UKIP party, even have the same founder and leader. Please point out any substantive differences or are you yet again going to lambast somebody's post without a shred of evidence.

 

Unlike Brexiteers, remainers use facts to support their argument. Did not many vocal supporters claim that UKIP were going to be s significant force in Parliament (as you have done with the Brexit party) only to see them not win even one seat in the following GE? History has a habit of repeating itself and I used that as my evidence. Where's your evidence?

[tebee]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I actually agree to an extent, but with only 43% opting for Remain it does indicate there is an even lower appetite for staying in the EU than there was in 2016. 

but this is why we are at the current impasse - in 2016 52 % voted for several different versions of leave as against 48% for one version of remain. This was one of the flaws in the design of the referendum.

 

So now people use that 52% figure as an imperative to leave, but there is no majority in either the country or parliament for any one version of leave. 

 

if we do decide to leave it will only be a minority of the country that is satisfied with how we leave  - this is why brexit has become such a political poisoned  chalice - a party delivering one version of it will alienate more people than they satisfy.

 

what we should have done is sat down and had a discussion about how we left and what we wanted our future relationship to be before we invoked article 50 - but no, the Tories decided to play the popularist card. This decision will destroy them.        

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, petemoss said:

The new Brexit party is virtually identical to the old UKIP party, even have the same founder and leader. Please point out any substantive differences or are you yet again going to lambast somebody's post without a shred of evidence.

 

Unlike Brexiteers, remainers use facts to support their argument. Did not many vocal supporters claim that UKIP were going to be s significant force in Parliament (as you have done with the Brexit party) only to see them not win even one seat in the following GE? History has a habit of repeating itself and I used that as my evidence. Where's your evidence?

I borrowed spideys crystal ball for the day.

 

Says the man who has the gall to say that people who believe in democracy are "right wing racists"

 

[petemoss]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I borrowed spideys crystal ball for the day.

 

Says the man who has the gall to say that people who believe in democracy are "right wing racists"

 

"I borrowed spideys crystal ball for the day." Sorry, you've lost me there.

 

"Says the man who has the gall to say that people who believe in democracy are "right wing racists""

Where did I say this? Twisting people's words, as usual. You must have been to the "Donald Trump School of Debating". I said that Tommy Robinson, UKIP and the Brexit party are right wing racists. I am pro democracy but I'm neither right wing or a racist.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, petemoss said:

"I borrowed spideys crystal ball for the day." Sorry, you've lost me there.

 

"Says the man who has the gall to say that people who believe in democracy are "right wing racists""

Where did I say this? Twisting people's words, as usual. You must have been to the "Donald Trump School of Debating". I said that Tommy Robinson, UKIP and the Brexit party are right wing racists. I am pro democracy but I'm neither right wing or a racist.

Just because you call the Brexit Party "right wing racists" that does not make them so, they are probably the least racists of all the main stream parties. Of all the parties I would suggest that The Labour Party is the racist of all the parties.

So are you suggesting that because I support a party that wishes to implement the wishes of the referendum and leave the EU, that makes me or anybody else for that matter racist. It makes me a believer of democracy and people that oppose it are anti-democratic.

[petemoss]

Just now, vogie said:

So are you suggesting that because I support a party that wishes to implement the wishes of the referendum and leave the EU, that makes me or anybody else for that matter racist.

No it doesn't make you a racist. If you aren't a racist, it just makes you someone who is easily fooled.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, petemoss said:

No it doesn't make you a racist. If you aren't a racist, it just makes you someone who is easily fooled.

You a very good at passing judgement on people you don't know, but I can assure you I am nobodys fool.

[petemoss]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

You a very good at passing judgement on people you don't know, but I can assure you I am nobodys fool.

555. It's not me that you have to convince!

 

You still haven't explained the term "Spideys crystal ball" or is this Brexiteer speak like "Remoaner" and "Project Fear"?

Edited July 1, 2019 by petemoss

[StayinThailand2much]

"Brexit supporters say there would be short-term disruption but in the long-term the UK would thrive if cut free from what they cast as a doomed experiment in German-dominated unity that has led to Europe falling behind China and the United States..."

Really?? Perhaps, those supporters should study their own country's history. Britain in the early 1970s was considered to be a "failed state". Then it joined the EEC in 1973. - No-one wishes the UK to repeat her dismal (economic) history, but who knows with someone like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson at the helm...

And, do the Brexiteers really want to risk the breaking off of Scotland?

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Edited July 1, 2019 by Rimmer
Over large quote removed

[vogie]

1 minute ago, petemoss said:

555. It's not me that you have to convince!

You are the one pointing the finger at me saying:

"No it doesn't make you a racist. If you aren't a racist, it just makes you someone who is easily fooled." But I guess it's just another day at the office for you.☺️

8 minutes ago, petemoss said:

No it doesn't make you a racist. If you aren't a racist, it just makes you someone who is easily fooled.

 

[StayinThailand2much]

No wonder he runs away from debates with his fellow leadership contenders, with ridiculous statements like that, they’d crucify him. 
 
At least there is some logic to his cowardice in avoiding such debates. 
 
Not sure how this cowardice makes him the ideal candidate to re-negotiate a treaty, that the EU has made clear is not up for re-negotiation, with the EU though.  

This guy cannot even 'negotiate' his private affairs, without the police having to investigate! - And the British want to trust him with leading the country??

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[Bluespunk]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

This guy cannot even 'negotiate' his private affairs, without the police having to investigate! - And the British want to trust him with leading the country??

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The country has no say at present, as only a tiny minority are involved in this vote to choose the next pm.