Jomtien says extensions need to show Insurance

[pontious]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Only at some embassies and official consulates in some of the home country of the person applying.

The embassy and honorary consulates in the UK will issue a single entry non-o for retirement with financial proof.  One cannot be applied for anywhere in the USA or Australia.

There are also a few honorary consulates that can still issue them.

This reply show's what a mess this is.

Only at some Embassies or consulates.

UK yes but US and Australia . NO.

A few others will.  The same police orders but  a zillion interpretations..

[gk10002000]

9 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Correct.  And it will stop many coming for long tsyaing periods too.  It has changed my plans - no way I am buying and living in Thailand for most of the year, after I get the pension. And I know 2 other blokes who now feel the same way about going there for longer than 2-3 months on a Tourist Visa.  Not only will this affect those already there and staying on Extensions/Renewals, it will also affect those who want to live in both Thailand and their home country. 

 

I know it is only for O-A Visas now (Retirement), but I can see it also being applied to the long term Marriage Visas in the future.  All they will need to do is create a sub-category (those aged 50+) and they can then easily apply the insurance requirement to that Visa too. 

Yes sir, same here.  The biggest rub is I will have and will be paying and will be keeping insurance in my home country (US of A).  I have no need to buy some garbage insufficient and costly Thai insurance at the same time.  And at 63, the prices are not insignificant.  The consensus was that nothing less than 1 Million baht coverage in a plan would be decent, so those minimum 400k baht and 40k baht out patient minimum plans would not be of much use for serious problems.  And if I had a serious problem, I would find some way to fly home for treatment.  In addition, unless one is really moving to Thailand permanently, in which case getting Thai insurance should probably be done anyway, especially if one does not have any sort of existing coverage, paying up front for a yearly premium is a money grab.  What if you pay up front but then move home or to another country?  Money now gone.  No monthly payment option at the moment is clear.

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, hereforgood said:

Sitting at the pool in my complex a guy that had just returned from Immigration inquired about the Medical Insurance requirements. He was told by the staff at desk 8 that he not need this time but he WOULD have to provide the insurance when he extended next year. He said he questioned them and he said they simply told him yes need boss say need. Taqke it for what it's worth.

 

I am taking it for a hearsay story. Triple hearsay, in fact: the guy said that the immigration officer said that his boss said.

[kingofthemountain]

  On 10/11/2019 at 2:39 PM, RedPill said:

Ok, that was my point yesterday in a different thread.

 

If the new health insurance requirements as 'pre-requirement' for O-A .... then why not the next stop to make it also a requirement for the retirement extension thereafter. 

 

And then we would already be in the extensions, too  ... it's not that crazy of a thought this could easily happen.

 

It would even make sense. Why only for the O-A for the first year, but not for the extension which opened the door to it?

 

 

 

 

I was coming in Thailand from europe with an OA visa 5 years ago

it was my only one visa i have ever had to come here

and i am staying here since 5 years with each year a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement.

Anyway I have to renew my 1 year extension of stay based on retirment at Jomtiem immigration office next  tuesday, so i can ask the question for 2020 when i have to renew again,if i have to show an insurance proof and i'll let you know here the IO answer given to me.//

 

Well as promised i am back with some facts

i was today in Jomtiem immigration office and i have had my passeport back with my extension of stay based on retirement, i have asked to the 2 immigration officers presents at the desk 8 and they have

confirmed next year if i want my extension of stay for 1 year i need to present a certificate of health insurance as required by the new law because i have had an OA visa granted 5 years ago.

It's very infortunate because for some reasons i have 0 intention to go this way, so i have 1 year to try to find another option or it should be my last year in Thailand. 

 

 

•  

[WaveHunter]

16 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

  On 10/11/2019 at 2:39 PM, RedPill said:

Ok, that was my point yesterday in a different thread.

If the new health insurance requirements as 'pre-requirement' for O-A .... then why not the next stop to make it also a requirement for the retirement extension thereafter. 

And then we would already be in the extensions, too  ... it's not that crazy of a thought this could easily happen.

It would even make sense. Why only for the O-A for the first year, but not for the extension which opened the door to it?

 

I was coming in Thailand from europe with an OA visa 5 years ago

it was my only one visa i have ever had to come here

and i am staying here since 5 years with each year a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement.

Anyway I have to renew my 1 year extension of stay based on retirment at Jomtiem immigration office next  tuesday, so i can ask the question for 2020 when i have to renew again,if i have to show an insurance proof and i'll let you know here the IO answer given to me.//

 

Well as promised i am back with some facts

i was today in Jomtiem immigration office and i have had my passeport back with my extension of stay based on retirement, i have asked to the 2 immigration officers presents at the desk 8 and they have

confirmed next year if i want my extension of stay for 1 year i need to present a certificate of health insurance as required by the new law because i have had an OA visa granted 5 years ago.

It's very infortunate because for some reasons i have 0 intention to go this way, so i have 1 year to try to find another option or it should be my last year in Thailand. 

I also just renewed my "retirement" extension and asked about status of health insurance requirement, and pretty much was given the same answer by Imm officials at Jomtien office, though nothing is yet black & white about this.

 

I do not plan on staying in Thailand on a long-stay visa once my present one expires but I'm curious if a "traveler's insurance" policy would meet the requirements.  Does anyone know?

 

I've always had travelers insurance since coming to Thailand on a tourist visa, and continued with it when I switched to a long-stay visa.  The insurer said there was no problem with having such coverage even though I am here on a long stay visa.  The coverage is excellent as far as medical/health coverage goes, and exceeds the Thai requirements in terms of in-patient coverage.  The annual cost and ease of getting coverage is not nearly as daunting as other alternatives such as Cigna, etc.

 

Just throwing this idea out there to explore for those who feel they may find themselves "between a rock and hard place" when/if this rule goes into effect.

Edited October 17, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Sheryl]

Unfortunately as it currently stands it appears that only a policy from one of the 13 listed companies will be accepted except for new OA visas where a foreign policy can be used for the first entry only -- provided the insurer signs a certificate stating it complies with the Cabinet Resolution which may be hard to arrange.

This is contrary to various assurrances given prior to the Poluce Order that any policy including foreign which met the 400/40k criteria would be accepted. Local insurance brokers have been trying to get higjer level clarification but so far without success.

Meanwhile reports are that many Imm Offices are telling people only insurance bought in Thailand from one of the listed companies is allowed.



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[tgeezer]

Good God this is insane, why are people asking Immigration? 

OK here is something worth asking immigration:  if we pay for medical insurance coverage will we no longer be required to keep Bt 400.000 or need Bt 800.000 for subsequent extensions?

  

[WaveHunter]

41 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unfortunately as it currently stands it appears that only a policy from one of the 13 listed companies will be accepted except for new OA visas where a foreign policy can be used for the first entry only -- provided the insurer signs a certificate stating it complies with the Cabinet Resolution which may be hard to arrange.

This is contrary to various assurrances given prior to the Poluce Order that any policy including foreign which met the 400/40k criteria would be accepted. Local insurance brokers have been trying to get higjer level clarification but so far without success.

Meanwhile reports are that many Imm Offices are telling people only insurance bought in Thailand from one of the listed companies is allowed.



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So then in reality this sounds like this legislation is more about helping Thai Insurance companies make a profitable killing than it is about assuring that Farangs do not become a financial burden to the State.  Sorry to sound cynical but big business such as insurance companies have very powerful lobbying capabilities no matter if we're talking Thailand or any other country of the world.  Government and altruistic Insurance company spokesmen can dress it up any way they like, but it's really all about greed.

[WaveHunter]

10 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Good God this is insane, why are people asking Immigration? 

OK here is something worth asking immigration:  if we pay for medical insurance coverage will we no longer be required to keep Bt 400.000 or need Bt 800.000 for subsequent extensions?

  

I don't think the banks would be too thrilled about that.  The required 800/400 was designed specifically to benefit their interests and no other.  This new health insurance requirement is designed to benefit the Thai based Insurance companies who are part of the "Group of 13".   I hate being a cynic, but it's really pretty obvious what's going on here, and it's not a good thing at all.  Increasingly expats are being taken advantage of and respected less and less IMHO.

Edited October 19, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Matzzon]

In that case jomtien is wrong. Why do not all that are affected of this call the Immigration hotline, instead of making absolutely no difference here?

[moogradod]

23 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I don't think the banks would be too thrilled about that.  The required 800/400 was designed specifically to benefit their interests and no other.  This new health insurance requirement is designed to benefit the Thai based Insurance companies who are part of the "Group of 13".   I hate being a cynic, but it's really pretty obvious what's going on here, and it's not a good thing at all.

This seems to become more and more obvious now.

 

And if the reason for all this is as stated by @WaveHunter, then any advantageous proposals such as having money in the bank instead of insurance as alternative etc. will fall on deaf ears.

 

Even trying not to be apocalyptic this mandatory insurance under the current premises might develop into the biggest threat to the expat community ever experienced with consequences unheard of. And it seems to be already bad enough as it stands.

[madmen]

29 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Even trying not to be apocalyptic this mandatory insurance under the current premises might develop into the biggest threat to the expat community ever experienced with consequences unheard of. And it seems to be already bad enough as it stands.

What are you talking about? its mandatory for 14% of expats according to the current poll on TV

[WaveHunter]

47 minutes ago, moogradod said:

This seems to become more and more obvious now.

 

And if the reason for all this is as stated by @WaveHunter, then any advantageous proposals such as having money in the bank instead of insurance as alternative etc. will fall on deaf ears.

 

Even trying not to be apocalyptic this mandatory insurance under the current premises might develop into the biggest threat to the expat community ever experienced with consequences unheard of. And it seems to be already bad enough as it stands.

Now this is just my opinion mind you, but I think Thai officials are going way too far with all these measures which frankly amount to a bunch of nonsense.  I'm pretty confident that big business lobbyists are really behind all these examples of outrageous legislation but sooner or later it's going to come back and bite them all! 

 

I know a lot of people will say the effect of Expat spending on the Thai economy is like a drop on the bucket but I think they are wrong!  Expats and tourists contribute a LOT to the Thai economy and without their money being injected into the economy, Thailand would be a much different place...and not for the better!  Look at all the explosive real estate development in the form of new high-rise condos going up all over the country.  If it were not for expats and long-stay tourists, there would not be a market for such buildings. 

 

Yet expats and long-stay tourists are increasingly being taken advantage of, forced to jump through more and more hoops, all for the privilege of spending their hard-earned money here in the Kingdom.  That's not right!  It's kind of like the saying about "biting the hand that feeds you" as far as I'm concerned.  There's going to come a time (already here I think) when Expats start thinking about finding a new place to live; a place where they're shown a bit more respect and not just thought of as walking ATM machines.  A place where they're not forced to deal with such extreme bureaucratic nonsense that has become the norm here in the last couple of years.

 

Don't get me wrong; I love living here, I really do!  All the BS we're forced to endure as Expats is still worth it IMO...but I think we're fast reaching a tipping point, when a lot of us are just going to say "What the hell! ... Enough is enough!"

 

People on this forum can flame me if they want (and I'm sure many will) but that's how I see it.

Edited October 19, 2019 by WaveHunter

[tgeezer]

59 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

In that case jomtien is wrong. Why do not all that are affected of this call the Immigration hotline, instead of making absolutely no difference here?

I post here because in my experience measures like 90 day reports, TM 30 and now insurance for all retirees are uninitiated, it could be us doing it or Immigration launching rumours to see if they float. 

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I post here because in my experience measures like 90 day reports, TM 30 and now insurance for all retirees are uninitiated, it could be us doing it or Immigration launching rumours to see if they float. 

I do understand that, and that everbody wants to hear if more people experienced the same thing. Sure, but there must also be a reaction from all that is treated wrongly, that they does not only complain and post there experience here. They have a hotline for people to call. Then everybody that get the wrong treatment must use it. Tell which office and what they have been wrongly asked for.

[WaveHunter]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I do understand that, and that everbody wants to hear if more people experienced the same thing. Sure, but there must also be a reaction from all that is treated wrongly, that they does not only complain and post there experience here. They have a hotline for people to call. Then everybody that get the wrong treatment must use it. Tell which office and what they have been wrongly asked for.

Have you ever called a Thai bureaucratic office's "helpline"?  I have, and it is one of the most frustrating experiences you can have LOL!  I won't say more; just try it and you'll find out what I mean, but have a bottle of Tylenol handy before you do, be prepared to be on the phone for at least one hour just to get through to the right person (or any human being at all), and then have a nice stiff drink ready for when you finally give up in disgust LOL!

Edited October 19, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Jingthing]

Good God this is insane, why are people asking Immigration? 
OK here is something worth asking immigration:  if we pay for medical insurance coverage will we no longer be required to keep Bt 400.000 or need Bt 800.000 for subsequent extensions?
  

Because they have the power to grant or deny extensions.

Too obvious?

Of course this has nothing to do with the financial requirements.

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[madmen]

5 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I am talking about the grandmother that came with the family to Thailand to lead a happy life together and now cannot get insurance and the government offers no solution. I am talking about the wealthy man that supports his Thai family and children with compassion but who has unforturtunately hypertension. I am talking as well about everybody that would be struck by these laws in the future - becoming old and sick which is everybodys fate. And the healthy one who has calculated his monthly allowances just to be good enough to live his dream in Thailand, came here 20 years ago but is now 75 years old.

 

Only "14%" you say ? I say not even ONE single family to be torn apart is worth it. Not even one death because of that is worth it.

That's always been the case  . 

[Matzzon]

43 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Have you ever called a Thai bureaucratic office's "helpline"?  I have, and it is one of the most frustrating experiences you can have LOL!  I won't say more; just try it and you'll find out what I mean, but have a bottle of Tylenol handy before you do, be prepared to be on the phone for at least one hour just to get through to the right person (or any human being at all), and then have a nice stiff drink ready for when you finally give up in disgust LOL!

Yeas I have, but I also know that there were going to be at least one of all the posters that came up for an excuse to do something again. Better to complain on a forum, where you can be sure nobody is qualified to change anything.

Now, I am going to take a couple of beers. That is not out of the reason regarding any hotline. It´s pure the the everyday need after reading all the complaints, misery and excuses the expat community in Thailand have.

[sturdyd]

So, as usual nobody knows what's going on including those charged with implementing the "law". And as usual half a dozen pages of "experiences" clears up nothing. And let's not forget those who stoke nothing but FUD (and you know who you are). So, basically I'm sick of it. What I want to know -- and I assume somebody has a genuine, factual answer -- is if I go for my extension and don't like what I hear or what they want, how long will I get before I have to leave the country? That is, how much time will they give me to clear my affairs? Accurate answers appreciated, thank you.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, tgeezer said:

 if we pay for medical insurance coverage will we no longer be required to keep Bt 400.000 or need Bt 800.000 for subsequent extensions?

  

That money was never previously associated with paying for medical services, simply as living expenses. So I have a feeling no, it will still be required!

[NE1]

The 400,000/800,000 baht should be your gaurantee for medical expenses. 

It is up to you what you do with your money .

If you fail to meet the following years financial requirements so be it.

But the money you have to set aside initially should be able to be used for what you want.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, NE1 said:

The 400,000/800,000 baht should be your gaurantee for medical expenses. 

It is up to you what you do with your money .

If you fail to meet the following years financial requirements so be it.

But the money you have to set aside initially should be able to be used for what you want.

Well of course you can if you choose to... although you could be risking your next extension.  (And even put yourself at risk for breaking the terms of the current retirement extension). We still have to reach that milestone which will be in Feb/March 2020, to see if we will be required to prove we kept the 800/400k untouched in the bank. In reality it isn't up to us what we do with our own money!

 

I am not yet convinced medical insurance will be obligatory for extensions.... it really would be fraught with complexities. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by jacko45k

[Skallywag]

Cannot a retiree just switch from a Non-Imm 0-A , to Non-Imm O? 

That would do away with the insurance requirement, for those who want to self-insure

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Skallywag said:

Cannot a retiree just switch from a Non-Imm 0-A , to Non-Imm O?

Yes but not that easy to do. They would have to leave the country to apply a non-o visa if possible or a get a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry and  apply for a non immigrant visa (category O) at immigration.

But IMO that will not be needed when thing are sorted out and the correct info is used by immigration. Everything in the order indicates it is not meant to be retroactive for previous OA visa entries. 

[WaveHunter]

13 hours ago, sturdyd said:

So, as usual nobody knows what's going on including those charged with implementing the "law". And as usual half a dozen pages of "experiences" clears up nothing. And let's not forget those who stoke nothing but FUD (and you know who you are). So, basically I'm sick of it. What I want to know -- and I assume somebody has a genuine, factual answer -- is if I go for my extension and don't like what I hear or what they want, how long will I get before I have to leave the country? That is, how much time will they give me to clear my affairs? Accurate answers appreciated, thank you.

I've been told by more than one reliable source that in a worst case scenario situation, Imm will give you 5 or 7 days to clear up affairs.  Of course, there are a lot of other options such as leaving the country and then coming back in (by air) on a visa-exempt status for 30 days, or travelling out of the Kingdom and applying for a SETV which can allow you to extend your time here even more significantly.  Nothing is guaranteed though; it's a roll of the dice.

 

@ubonjoe has discussed such options in depth in various threads and he is acknowledged as a very factual source here on ThaiVisa.  If you really want the best information available on this, do a google search of this forum for his posts on this subject (The ThaiVisa search engine is horrible; Google will give you much better results.).  In Google search, do your search like this, "thaivisa" "ubonjoe" "visa exempt", for instance. [ click on link to see sample search ]

Edited October 20, 2019 by WaveHunter

[tgeezer]

It is so frustrating, we are talking to minions, they don’t have any answers the people at the top know exactly what they are doing but are not telling us. 

We have to guess and I am guessing that hospitals or insurance companies have complained to the minister. The decision has been made that if the hospitals are unable to ‘squeeze blood out of a stone’ because the ‘stones’ are on A-O visas and don’t have to keep money in the bank. It is reasonable to make the ‘stones’ have insurance.  At the rumour level the indemnity sum was Bt 400,000, what a coincidence, that is the very sum that the new rules say every retiree is required to leave untouched in the bank! 

Once a retiree has extended he has money in the bank or income against which he can borrow money in order to pay hospitals bills so the fact of entering on an A-O visa is irrelevant. You can not expect a lady who is intimidated by her superiors and scared of making a mistake to work that out and even if she did she risks being contradicted by a Captain who can’t work it out. 

[Sheryl]

The people at the top know what they intended. I would not assume that they know what the lower-down people are doing.

 

An added wrinkle is that the top dogs involved spanned more than one Ministry. The police order issued by RTP Imm differs in several significant respects from public statements by MoPH on how this would work. Can't assume MoPH has reviewed the order or knows this.

 

I would encourage anyone with contacts high up in either MoPH or RTP to discuss with them.

 

 

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[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

the people at the top know exactly what they are doing

don't overestimate them

[sturdyd]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I've been told by more than one reliable source that in a worst case scenario situation, Imm will give you 5 or 7 days to clear up affairs.  Of course, there are a lot of other options such as leaving the country and then coming back in (by air) on a visa-exempt status for 30 days, or travelling out of the Kingdom and applying for a SETV which can allow you to extend your time here even more significantly.  Nothing is guaranteed though; it's a roll of the dice.

 

@ubonjoe has discussed such options in depth in various threads and he is acknowledged as a very factual source here on ThaiVisa.  If you really want the best information available on this, do a google search of this forum for his posts on this subject (The ThaiVisa search engine is horrible; Google will give you much better results.).  In Google search, do your search like this, "thaivisa" "ubonjoe" "visa exempt", for instance. [ click on link to see sample search ]

Thank you for your cogent answer. You're one in a mil...  well, several dozen. ????