UK Pensions and related info

[Madgee]

Can you be prosecuted for receiving the UK pension annual increases when you claim to live in the UK when you actually live in Thailand? Yes (It is fraud)

 

Will you be prosecuted? Highly unlikely but likely to issue you with a penalty payment. 

 

Can the DWP impose that penalty on your state pension? No but can make make deductions from it only if you agree.

 

In most cases, if you do fraudulently claim the state pension increases, they impose a penalty that sits on your record and would be deducted from any other benefits you might claim unless you agree to a fixed amount deducted from your state pension until the penalty and the amount that has been falsely paid to you is fully recovered.                                                                                                                 

 

The State Pension is described in legislation as a “benefit” in order to root it within the existing social security framework as a statutory scheme paid out of monies in the National Insurance Fund.

 

DWP Debt Management. Collecting Overpayments. StepChange

Can the DWP look at my bank account?

The DWP can look at your bank account and social media if it has reasonable grounds to suspect you might be involved in benefit fraud. For example, they can request information from your bank if they suspect that you didn’t disclose all the capital you held in your bank account.

 

Penalties policy: in respect of social security fraud and error - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Can you be prosecuted for receiving the UK pension annual increases when you claim to live in the UK when you actually live in Thailand? Yes (It is fraud)

No they can't. 

If you have evidence they can, please post a link to the court case. 

[Madgee]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No they can't. 

If you have evidence they can, please post a link to the court case. 

I never said they have, I said they can.

Benefit fraud - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Please post me a link to say they can't. 

 

This really does go around in a never ending circle!

I'm due my full UK state pension in 2 years time and I'll not disclose that I live in Thailand. Am I committing fraud? Yes.

Will I still sleep soundly at night? Yes

[transam]

1 minute ago, Madgee said:

I never said they have, I said they can.

Benefit fraud - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Please post me a link to say they can't. 

 

This really does go around in a never ending circle!

I'm due my full UK state pension in 2 years time and I'll not disclose that I live in Thailand. Am I committing fraud? Yes.

Will I still sleep soundly at night? Yes

With long stay visa stamps in your passport......Yes...????

[Kwasaki]

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No they can't. 

If you have evidence they can, please post a link to the court case. 

That's not the way it's done and no one knows until it happens £1000 fine from what I remember and they seem to busy to do anything about it anyhow. 

I would say it will only become difficult to dodge in the future when there is more computer link up, to say for want of other words or they check people putting people who don't live there on the electraul list thingy. 

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, Madgee said:

I never said they have, I said they can.

Benefit fraud - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Please post me a link to say they can't. 

I've never known any government department not to take legal action when they can to recover money. This is how governments work.

 

As for Benefit Fraud, claiming welfare when you're on holiday in Spain or working on the sly is the normal court action in the link you have provided, nothing to do with the State pension.

Edited July 31, 2022 by BritManToo

[jonbeen]

30 minutes ago, transam said:

With long stay visa stamps in your passport......Yes...????

..but I always ????

 

..But I always lose mine before applying for new one

54 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Can you be prosecuted for receiving the UK pension annual increases when you claim to live in the UK when you actually live in Thailand? Yes (It is fraud)

 

Will you be prosecuted? Highly unlikely but likely to issue you with a penalty payment. 

 

Can the DWP impose that penalty on your state pension? No but can make make deductions from it only if you agree.

 

In most cases, if you do fraudulently claim the state pension increases, they impose a penalty that sits on your record and would be deducted from any other benefits you might claim unless you agree to a fixed amount deducted from your state pension until the penalty and the amount that has been falsely paid to you is fully recovered.                                                                                                                 

 

The State Pension is described in legislation as a “benefit” in order to root it within the existing social security framework as a statutory scheme paid out of monies in the National Insurance Fund.

 

DWP Debt Management. Collecting Overpayments. StepChange

Can the DWP look at my bank account?

The DWP can look at your bank account and social media if it has reasonable grounds to suspect you might be involved in benefit fraud. For example, they can request information from your bank if they suspect that you didn’t disclose all the capital you held in your bank account.

 

Penalties policy: in respect of social security fraud and error - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

"Only if you agree"  Agree to what exactly?  Its a disqualifying benefit,it cannot be touched,  "any other benefit attached to it maybe adjusted",and maybe is the operative word

Since this publication the word "disqualifying" has become the norm for the past 5 years or so

   Nobody ever has been apprehended and no one will,DWP stated years ago

Edited July 31, 2022 by jonbeen

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That's not the way it's done and no one knows until it happens £1000 fine from what I remember and they seem to busy to do anything about it anyhow. 

This is a bit like debt collectors trying to recover unsecured loans.

You don't have to pay them unless you want, sure they'll threaten all sorts, but essentially no way to legally recover.

 

You need to differentiate between a court imposed fine and a voluntary payment.

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, transam said:

With long stay visa stamps in your passport......Yes...????

Why would you show them your passport?

Last time the UK police asked to see mine, I claimed I didn't have one.

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

This is a bit like debt collectors trying to recover unsecured loans.

You don't have to pay them unless you want, sure they'll threaten all sorts, but essentially no way to legally recover.

 

You need to differentiate between a court imposed fine and a voluntary payment.

Well it may well be the case DWP cannot stop you getting your pension when they catch someone whose committing fraud but they are allowed to withhold the pension payment there lays the difference it will be much the same thing they do if they do not receive a life form back as has happened to me twice. 

[jonbeen]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well it may well be the case DWP cannot stop you getting your pension when they catch someone whose committing fraud but they are allowed to withhold the pension payment there lays the difference it will be much the same thing they do if they do not receive a life form back as has happened to me twice. 

No,they cannot withhold pension payment,the difference is they can suspend payment until the life form is returned ,but any payment is returned to you

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

No,they cannot withhold pension payment,the difference is they can suspend payment until the life form is returned ,but any payment is returned to you

Yes, I never understood the desperation so many on this forum show because their state pension payment was delayed. It's not as if money in the bank earns you any worthwhile interest, they must have serious money management issues.

 

You get the same nonsense posts in WISE threads, money transfer delayed a day or two and it's the end of the world. These guys are living on a knife edge. 

[Seppius]

What really constitutes "living" here. You are given in most cases 90 days' permission to stay.

 

How long would you need to be here before the UK Gov decides? you could just be taking a year's break . UK home address and pension into UK bank important I would think, 10% rise coming next April

[partington]

27 minutes ago, Seppius said:

What really constitutes "living" here. You are given in most cases 90 days' permission to stay.

 

How long would you need to be here before the UK Gov decides? you could just be taking a year's break . UK home address and pension into UK bank important I would think, 10% rise coming next April

This is not a matter of any doubt at all, and a question that no-one needs to ask since the UK government has published a step by step flow diagram of the residence test rules which enable everyone to work out whether the UK government consider them resident or not.

 

The test is clear (though not simple) and it does not concern itself at all with whether any other country considers you tax resident. Here it is, just do it and you will know:

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

Edited July 31, 2022 by partington

[transam]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why would you show them your passport?

Last time the UK police asked to see mine, I claimed I didn't have one.

If you live in LOS and renew PP in LOS, they want a copy of every page of PP. A Thai PP agent has to copy every PP page.

 

What they do if you renew in the UK, I have no idea, but the PP is in someones hands to inspect it.

 

It is very easy for police in the UK to find out if you have a PP, just a phone call away, all high-tech now.....????

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, I never understood the desperation so many on this forum show because their state pension payment was delayed. It's not as if money in the bank earns you any worthwhile interest, they must have serious money management issues.

 

You get the same nonsense posts in WISE threads, money transfer delayed a day or two and it's the end of the world. These guys are living on a knife edge. 

Why do people think like that it's nothing to do with desperation you have to ring them up and find out whats going that's all.

[hotandsticky]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

How do you propose he gets to go unfrozen in Thailand.

There is a whole thread that I started on unfreezing UK state pensions.

[jonbeen]

3 hours ago, transam said:

If you live in LOS and renew PP in LOS, they want a copy of every page of PP. A Thai PP agent has to copy every PP page.

 

What they do if you renew in the UK, I have no idea, but the PP is in someones hands to inspect it.

 

It is very easy for police in the UK to find out if you have a PP, just a phone call away, all high-tech now.....????

Banging on this subject for years and years,so what? nothing is ever done,nothing ever will. How do u feel banging on,convincing no one and losing a ton of money doing it

   Replied many many times    lose it,.go.uk to renew  uk address,no issues,plain sailing   good as gold,cheap too   

[jonbeen]

"Pensioners could receive a record £2,052 boost in the state pension over the next two years, as high inflation is expected to deliver back-to-back double digit increases under the Government's triple lock promise. "

  Good news at last,could be  lot more as forecast is over 13% coming up,plus compounding

[Excel]

16 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

"Pensioners could receive a record £2,052 boost in the state pension over the next two years, as high inflation is expected to deliver back-to-back double digit increases under the Government's triple lock promise. "

  Good news at last,could be  lot more as forecast is over 13% coming up,plus compounding

And this conservative government has suspended the "triple lock" once already so who knows if they will do it again which means the UK pension increases may well fall below the rate of inflation again if they do the same thing again.

[jonbeen]

2 hours ago, Excel said:

And this conservative government has suspended the "triple lock" once already so who knows if they will do it again which means the UK pension increases may well fall below the rate of inflation again if they do the same thing again.

Its votes that count,would be suicide especially with GE looming   Sure is good news though

[Excel]

1 hour ago, jonbeen said:

Its votes that count,would be suicide especially with GE looming   Sure is good news though

They have 2 years to go before the GE. Looks like inflation will top out in the next year so hence I would not put it past this crowd of incompetent and lying ministers to suspend the triple lock again so it does not get paid next year and then allow it the following year when inflation will mean a lower increase and it will then be in election year.

[jonbeen]

40 minutes ago, Excel said:

They have 2 years to go before the GE. Looks like inflation will top out in the next year so hence I would not put it past this crowd of incompetent and lying ministers to suspend the triple lock again so it does not get paid next year and then allow it the following year when inflation will mean a lower increase and it will then be in election year.

"Tom Selby, of AJ Bell, said that any deviation from the triple lock would be “political suicide” for either of the two runners in the race to replace Boris Johnson. 

“It will be costly but the triple lock is a totem for doing right by older people and so no politician will want to break it because the reality is that they will need votes,” he said." 

Telegraph

I reckon its a done deal,plus 500  in next couple of months

 

[steve187]

On 6/22/2022 at 12:23 PM, Kwasaki said:

A subject which comes up from time to time so it's to know that there is no benefits what so ever for a Thai wife married to a Englishman on a pension living in Thailand. 

 

 

not quite correct, a Thai national living in Thailand can get a Uk state pension if she has contributed at least 10 years UK NI contributions  being married or not doesn't come into it, but would make no difference, you would be correct for other benefits.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, jonbeen said:

"Tom Selby, of AJ Bell, said that any deviation from the triple lock would be “political suicide” for either of the two runners in the race to replace Boris Johnson. 

“It will be costly but the triple lock is a totem for doing right by older people and so no politician will want to break it because the reality is that they will need votes,” he said." 

Telegraph

I reckon its a done deal,plus 500  in next couple of months

 

Let's hope so as the UK pension is already  low compared to many other countries.

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, steve187 said:

not quite correct, a Thai national living in Thailand can get a Uk state pension if she has contributed at least 10 years UK NI contributions  being married or not doesn't come into it, but would make no difference, you would be correct for other benefits.

I stated living in Thailand.

 

If there was a thread of a Thai person living in UK they will be entitled to many benefits and a retirement pension base on NI payments which will be frozen if they come back to Thailand. ????

[jonbeen]

On 6/22/2022 at 12:23 PM, Kwasaki said:

A subject which comes up from time to time so it's to know that there is no benefits what so ever for a Thai wife married to a Englishman on a pension living in Thailand. 

 

 

Are you the harbinger of death?   Its all doom and gloom,cannot do this ,cannot do that,just get on with unfreezing if you require it,or just be happy living in your own skin

 

 Recently been on to my pension provider,as long as I'm legally married in Thailand,living with her , no restrictions apply,she is entitled to half my pension,which makes me think Ill marry her 22 year old niece

[Excel]

1 minute ago, jonbeen said:

Are you the harbinger of death?   Its all doom and gloom,cannot do this ,cannot do that,just get on with unfreezing if you require it,or just be happy living in your own skin

 

 Recently been on to my pension provider,as long as I'm legally married in Thailand,living with her , no restrictions apply,she is entitled to half my pension,which makes me think Ill marry her 22 year old niece

The thread is about the UK state pension, not private pension providers, some of whom have differing entitlement rules.

[transam]

17 minutes ago, steve187 said:

not quite correct, a Thai national living in Thailand can get a Uk state pension if she has contributed at least 10 years UK NI contributions  being married or not doesn't come into it, but would make no difference, you would be correct for other benefits.

At the UK state pension retirement age of 66 years old...

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

Are you the harbinger of death?   Its all doom and gloom,cannot do this ,cannot do that,just get on with unfreezing if you require it,or just be happy living in your own skin

 

 Recently been on to my pension provider,as long as I'm legally married in Thailand,living with her , no restrictions apply,she is entitled to half my pension,which makes me think Ill marry her 22 year old niece

Oh thanks guru how do you propose how I can get my UK pension unfrozen you don't know my circumstances so don't be so smug mug.