Motorbike accident - Need help!

[treetops]

6 minutes ago, Covid19Everywhere said:

No way they could know I will drive this way at this time. And the other guy was seriously injured.

Could have been any farang on a bike and you were just unlucky?  A bit pain for cash might be worth it to some.

[jastheace]

4 minutes ago, Covid19Everywhere said:

What so funny and why you think I am screwed?

You think this was a setup? I highly doubt. No way they could know I will drive this way at this time. And the other guy was seriously injured.

no, not  set up. I'm pretty sure about that.

I will try to be helpful- try the tourist police, if they have them where you are. failing that try the regular police. I doubt either will be able to help though. I am also pretty sure if you read the rental agreement you signed, there will be a clause that you are responsible for returning the bike in the same condition as you took it. 

the bike maybe illegal anyway. that could be your only line of defence. ask to see registration and tax / insurance papers for it first before going to the police, if it is illegal, ask for yr passport back, if refused, file a report that it's stolen. apply for a replacement.

[piston broke]

ok ...

 

this is how it is....

 

The bike rental guy will only have the basic "government" insurance on the bike....

 

The rental agreement will make you 100% responsible for damage to the rental bike and damage you cause to third party vehicles / property  ( government insurance only covers injury, not property damage)....

 

He's got your passport - so has you buy the balls ....

 

the only thing you can do is to get an independant to quote to fix the bike (try the local main dealers for a start) - rather than the rental bloke clutching figures out of the air, which will be in his favour - not your's...

 

if you "bike" you rented is an auto scooter - you will be surprised as to how cheap they actually are to repair ( parts and labour)....

 

as regards the "50,000 baht" repair costs - if it is a typical rental scooter, its not worth that - or a "wrtire off" as we would say in the west ..... depending on the age of the vehicle, pre accident condition and kms, you can get an idea of it's pre-accident value...

 

Hope this helps ...

 

ps i was a loss adjuster in the uk for over 30 years ..

.

Edited May 11, 2020 by piston broke

[gargamon]

Yes, you are liable for the damage to the bike. The contract will say it needs to be returned in the same condition it was rented. It is up to you to attempt to get funds from the person you had the accident with.

 

Look at it differently. If someone had stolen the bike, you would owe the replacement price of the bike. The argument you are attempting to use would mean it would be up to the bike's owner to find the person who stole it and get restitution from him.

[papa al]

ur screwed 

get it fixed yourself

[OneMoreFarang]

I think it's interesting that some guys here think they know exactly who has to pay and what your rights are.

Really? Do you know all the relevant Thai laws?

As far as I understand the OP rented the bike and I am sure there is somewhere in the rental contract that he has to pay for any damages of the bike. He wants to return a damaged bike. Someone has to pay for it. And maybe not only repair but also cost that the bike can't be used for x days.

The way I see it the OP has to pay for the damage of the bike because he had the bike when it was damaged.

That the bike was actually damaged because of someone else is not the problem of the bike owner. The company lend an undamaged bike and wants an undamaged bike or compensation back.

And does anybody here really know which insurance the rental company needs by law? Does he need 1st class insurance? Does he need other insurances? I don't know. And I won't assume he needs them.

 

Better check the law before you think you know the legal situation! Because maybe the rental guy does not want to screw you and maybe he likes to find a good solution for everybody. And when you treat him like he is the bad guy then this might not help.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's interesting that some guys here think they know exactly who has to pay and what your rights are.

Really? Do you know all the relevant Thai laws?

 

Agreed.  And even if you only gave the vendor a copy of your passport, you may still have a legal debt that's going to bite you in the butt next time you pass through immigration and whip out the original.  Kind of like the tourists who run out on a hotel bill or leave a lot of damage in their wake, or the ones who rent cars or scooters and fail to return them.

 

My inkling (and that's all it is) is that the OP is responsible for giving the scooter back in its original condition, and it's up to him to pursue reimbursement from the insurance company or the other party.  The vendor may be trying to claim more damages than he's entitled to, but that's just one of at least 3 separate issues. A) what about the passport? B) what are the actual damages? and C) who should pay them if one of the parties pleads indigence?

 

Over the years, there has been discussion of mandatory insurance as a condition of renting out scooters (and jet skis), but I'm not up on the laws that have resulted, if any.  Does anyone have a definitive answer?

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by impulse

[JeffersLos]

Think of it this way, you won't have to rent it anymore, because tomorrow you will be buying it. 

[timendres]

4 hours ago, time2093 said:

Your BIG mistake was to hand over your passport as a deposit. I seen it to many times happen to foreigners who dont know better and get in an accident your fault or not. It will cost you in the end as forget about getting the money from the Thai guy. Suggest you negotiate with the motor bike owner on a price if you ever want to see your passport again.

Unless you are an IO, or put a gun to my head, you will never touch my passport. I have had hospitals demand it, police demand it, shop owners demand it, even building owners demand it. I tell them all to pound sand.

[properperson]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's interesting that some guys here think they know exactly who has to pay and what your rights are.

Really? Do you know all the relevant Thai laws?

As far as I understand the OP rented the bike and I am sure there is somewhere in the rental contract that he has to pay for any damages of the bike. He wants to return a damaged bike. Someone has to pay for it. And maybe not only repair but also cost that the bike can't be used for x days.

The way I see it the OP has to pay for the damage of the bike because he had the bike when it was damaged.

That the bike was actually damaged because of someone else is not the problem of the bike owner. The company lend an undamaged bike and wants an undamaged bike or compensation back.

And does anybody here really know which insurance the rental company needs by law? Does he need 1st class insurance? Does he need other insurances? I don't know. And I won't assume he needs them.

 

Better check the law before you think you know the legal situation! Because maybe the rental guy does not want to screw you and maybe he likes to find a good solution for everybody. And when you treat him like he is the bad guy then this might not help.

 

You're obviously from the southern most tip of planet Zogg ?

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Covid19Everywhere said:

What so funny and why you think I am screwed?

You think this was a setup? I highly doubt. No way they could know I will drive this way at this time. And the other guy was seriously injured.

It's not a setup, it's how these bike rentals generally work, the rider is liable. For next time you can request 1st class insurance so you aren't liable, if it's not available then go elsewhere.

 

Let us know how it gets resolved

[Don Mega]

8 hours ago, piston broke said:

 

if you "bike" you rented is an auto scooter - you will be surprised as to how cheap they actually are to repair ( parts and labour)....

 

as regards the "50,000 baht" repair costs - if it is a typical rental scooter, its not worth that - or a "wrtire off" as we would say in the west ..... depending on the age of the vehicle, pre accident condition and kms, you can get an idea of it's pre-accident value...

 

Hope this helps ...

 

ps i was a loss adjuster in the uk for over 30 years ..

.

The OP was not riding a scooter.

[Vigilante]

Lessons to be learned

Never, ever give your passport to  anyone other than Immigration.

 

[balo]

You lost this case the moment you handed over your original passport!  That is a very stupid thing to do, but this is probably your first time here.  
If the rental company does not have a proper insurance, you have to pay, simple as that.  

You can always visit your embassy and ask for another passport, just tell them you lost the old one. Then just relocate to somewhere else, far away from the rental company.   
 

[Curt1591]

Rule #1:  Do not surrender your passport to any business. If this is "required", walk away. 

This is a perfect example of the consequences. 

[baansgr]

How much and how easy is it to get a new passport

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, properperson said:

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Better check the law before you think you know the legal situation! Because maybe the rental guy does not want to screw you and maybe he likes to find a good solution for everybody. And when you treat him like he is the bad guy then this might not help.

 

You're obviously from the southern most tip of planet Zogg ?

Are you living in Thailand? Do you hate all Thais?

There are actually lots of nice Thais out there. But if you treat them like criminals then don't be surprised if they don't treat you like a nice guy. 

[OneMoreFarang]

30 minutes ago, balo said:

You lost this case the moment you handed over your original passport!  That is a very stupid thing to do, but this is probably your first time here.  
If the rental company does not have a proper insurance, you have to pay, simple as that.  

You can always visit your embassy and ask for another passport, just tell them you lost the old one. Then just relocate to somewhere else, far away from the rental company. 

And that solves the problem?

How about if you walk out of a hotel without paying? Yeah, happy, I have money in my pocket? Maybe not.

Fraud comes to my mind, but maybe that is not the correct legal term. 

Enjoy your next "visit" at immigration.

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, baansgr said:

How much and how easy is it to get a new passport

 

Pretty cheap and fairly easy, usually.  All you have to do is sign an affidavit confirming what happened to the original, along with a police report.

 

Then you hope the truth doesn't come out, because if you thought you were in trouble with a scooter vendor, just wait until your government finds out you lied on an affidavit or the Thai police found out you filed a false report.  And even then, you still have to clench your sphincter every time you pass through Thai immigration, hoping the scooter guy hasn't reported you for theft.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, baansgr said:

How much and how easy is it to get a new passport

I guess it's not the same for every country. But it's more than likely that they will ask you why you want a new passport. So what will you tell them? Will you tell them you lost it, like others suggested here? What will you do if the embassy wants that in writing and if they ask in which police station you recorded your "loss"?

Will you go to a police station and tell them you lost your passport to get a document even if you know exactly you never lost it?

I am sure embassies and police are not happy to get lied to.

[taninthai]

So the op was riding a big bike,,,a lot of the big bike rental places do actually have insurance,,but you should clarify this and check paperwork before you take bike,,,if it was a scooter no chance.

[balo]

16 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How about if you walk out of a hotel without paying? Yeah, happy, I have money in my pocket? Maybe not.

I would never do that, I just suggested an escape plan if OP are broke and can't pay 50k.  I would never do it myself. 

 

[richard_smith237]

One option to get your passport back. Agree to 'some' payment.

Tell them you need your Passport to withdraw money at the bank.

 

 

[pineapple01]

When Will they Ever Learn, no sympathy at all.

[Sujo]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I guess it's not the same for every country. But it's more than likely that they will ask you why you want a new passport. So what will you tell them? Will you tell them you lost it, like others suggested here? What will you do if the embassy wants that in writing and if they ask in which police station you recorded your "loss"?

Will you go to a police station and tell them you lost your passport to get a document even if you know exactly you never lost it?

I am sure embassies and police are not happy to get lied to.

Dont need to lie. Just say the rental guy has the passport and refuses to return it. The passport is the property of the govt and they will take steps to get it. Passport can only be held by court order.

 

in the interim if you have a flight out they can give you an emergency doc so you can leave.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Sujo said:

Dont need to lie. Just say the rental guy has the passport and refuses to return it. The passport is the property of the govt and they will take steps to get it. Passport can only be held by court order.

 

in the interim if you have a flight out they can give you an emergency doc so you can leave.

I agree. But "don't need to lie" does not mean that some people would do it because they don't want to tell what really happened.

[taninthai]

On 5/12/2020 at 5:37 AM, balo said:

You lost this case the moment you handed over your original passport!  That is a very stupid thing to do, but this is probably your first time here.  

About this handing over passport situation .........we rent bikes out at our place ,never used to take passport or anything then 2 years ago a stupid Swedish tourist completely smashed up the whole front of a 6 month old Yamaha gt 125....told her the realistic price of 6500bht to repair ,big drama accused us of scamming her,,,,,from that day on we do not let bikes go out without either 5000 bht deposit or passport as deposit ,,funny 90% prefer to leave there passport.

if you borrow/hire/rent something off someone it needs to be returned in exact condition it was given to you ,this is not unreasonable request and decent honest people should/would accept this.bike rental business is a pain we have people bring bike back after 3 days with flat tyre and when we say no problem it’s only 140 bht they say it’s not there fault????????????

would you lend/borrow/rent Your car/bike /house to someone with no security deposit?

would you borrow/rent something from someone break it/smash it up and just give it back and walk away ?

[Grumpy one]

Chill out, the worst that can happen is you loose your passport and either of the bike owners shoot you

Just pay the bike repairs if not outrageous and mark it up to a learning experience

[alacrity]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:10 PM, VocalNeal said:

So some guy crashes and damages a motorbike that you own. What would you want him to do for you?

Cover their expenses, I suppose. Because they have western expectations of justice. Mostly bike insurances here are worth Jack. Particularly with small rental bikes.

Ergo, the OP is liable.

Hopefully, others should research and learn from such experiences. Then again...

Edited May 13, 2020 by alacrity
text

[balo]

8 hours ago, taninthai said:

would you lend/borrow/rent Your car/bike /house to someone with no security deposit?

No I wouldn't , and I would have paid a 5000 baht deposit if I wanted to rent your bike. I will never leave my passport anywhere.