Nearly one in six Britons would refuse Covid-19 vaccine

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

you refer to bible belt ?

 

in my country, neighbor of you, it is ISLAMIC people not following the rules, no masks, mass meatings, etc....    wrong religion to blame ... you have a lot of those also in "the netherlands", and where they live = trouble

 

let's see what happens during ramadam...

But for vaccination its the bible belt that is what the tpic is about. Nice deflection to an other religion. Ramadan has been gone already you know a few months back.

[Bender Rodriguez]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

If you look in this topic its far more then 1% anyway I hope that Thai immigration is strict. We will see. 

if forced, I will pay & ask the nurse to BIN that poison or maybe you come the same day and you can get my shot in your big strong arm... can't hurt, right ?

[Bender Rodriguez]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

But for vaccination its the bible belt that is what the tpic is about. Nice deflection to an other religion. Ramadan has been gone already you know a few months back.

you know it is yearly, right .... and with the big 2nd, 3rd wave on the way, sure covid will be there around the next ramaDAMN

[Greenside]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:01 AM, BKKBike09 said:

Maybe they are of the view that until a vaccine has been properly trialled clinically (tens of thousands of patients over years: not 45 people over 30 days wtc), and possible complications and potential side-effects properly understood, the risk for them might not be worth it.

 

Ironically the potential for an adverse reaction to a hurriedly produced vaccine is greatest in the elderly and those with weakened immune systems or other serious underlying health issues - the groups most at risk from serious illness from Covid.

 

 

It depends exactly how the survey was constructed (ie was the "would you take it" question qualified with "if were proven safe and effective") , but the chances are that they are part of that dumber that planks group who prefer to believe idiotic online conspiracy theories unsupported by hard evidence, scientific data or studies.  I feel very sorry for their children who even under normal circumstances run completely unnecessary health risks from completely preventable diseases.

 

The Guardian article has much about the respondents who appear to have said no but if you want ample evidence of how people like this think, look no further than today's BBC short news video on Q Anon and the Corvid Crisis.  Yes, I know this is nothing new but it's developing into something truly scary and sinister.

 

Social media and poor education has a lot to answer for.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Greenside
Repair the link

[robblok]

33 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

if forced, I will pay & ask the nurse to BIN that poison or maybe you come the same day and you can get my shot in your big strong arm... can't hurt, right ?

You might be able to bribe a nurse who knows. This is Thailand after all. But bribing a nurse might also lead to problems if rejected. Your risk. Im sure your not the only one who will try it that way. 

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, Greenside said:

It depends exactly how the survey was constructed (ie was the "would you take it" question qualified with "if were proven safe and effective") , but the chances are that they are part of that dumber that planks group who prefer to believe idiotic online conspiracy theories unsupported by hard evidence, scientific data or studies.  I feel very sorry for their children who even under normal circumstances run completely unnecessary health risks from completely preventable diseases.

 

The Guardian article has much about the respondents who appear to have said no but if you want ample evidence of how people like this think, look no further than today's BBC short news video on Q Anon and the Corvid Crisis.

 

Social media and poor education has a lot to answer for.

Yep those fools with low education can find charlatans on the internet that brainwash them and supply them with fake news. Its a shame. I love the internet but it certainly dumbs some people down.

[Why Me]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Never imagined so many anti vaxers.

I doubt it's more than a small minority of TVers that are loons. It's just the title of the thread "... refuse Covid-19 vaccine" that's brought them out ranting and drooling.

 

Most expats I hear from in fact are desperate for the vaccine because it'll mean freedom of travel to/from Thailand.

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Why Me said:

I doubt it's more than a small minority of TVers that are loons. It's just the title of the thread "... refuse Covid-19 vaccine" that's brought them out ranting and drooling.

 

Most expats I hear from in fact are desperate for the vaccine because it'll mean freedom of travel to/from Thailand.

Then its a really vocal small minority, i see fake science about COVID everywhere on this forum. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

if forced, I will pay & ask the nurse to BIN that poison or maybe you come the same day and you can get my shot in your big strong arm... can't hurt, right ?

I knew a bloke who was afraid of needles too....????

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I knew a bloke who was afraid of needles too....????

Depends a bit how thick and long the needle is and where its sticked in. Rabies injection in my nose was one of the worst pains ever. 

[Why Me]

16 minutes ago, transam said:

I knew a bloke who was afraid of needles too....????

Trypanophobia. As opposed to trypophobia which is an abnormal fear of a cluster of holes.

[OJAS]

9 hours ago, Greenside said:

the chances are that they are part of that dumber that planks group who prefer to believe idiotic online conspiracy theories unsupported by hard evidence, scientific data or studies.  I feel very sorry for their children who even under normal circumstances run completely unnecessary health risks from completely preventable diseases.

You are presumably referring here to all the hysterical scaremongering that was whipped up about perceived autism risks of the triple-MMR vaccine 20 years or so ago, which have since been completely discredited?

 

What's the betting that the hysterical scaremongering which is being whipped up by the COVID-19 anti-vaccine brigade on this particular thread will similarly prove to be without foundation?

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by OJAS

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, OJAS said:

You are presumably referring here to all the hysterical scaremongering that was whipped up about perceived autism risks of the triple-MMR vaccine 20 years or so ago, which have since been completely discredited?

 

What's the betting that the hysterical scaremongering which is being whipped up by the COVID-19 anti-vaccine brigade on this particular thread will similarly prove to be without foundation?

 

An extremely valid point. A major plainer in the Antivaccination campaigns was Andrew Wakefield who was discredited after his 1998 study into the ‘dangers of the MMR vaccine’ proved fraudulent - The Damage was done and this was all the confirmation bias the Antivaxxers needed.  

 

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield)  

 

That said, everything requires intelligent balance, educated and independent thought. We shouldn’t blindly believe what mainstream media tells us, equally so, we shouldn’t blindly disbelieve it out of some paranoid delusion that 'the man’ is out to control us or some equally schizoid delusions.

 

So.. The Covid-19 Vaccine IF / When it comes out? will be be safe, have the studies been rushed through clearance, could there potentially be any long term side effects ?????

 

 

Personally, as Children are not impacted by Covid-19 (or very rarely) I will not be giving this vaccine to my Son. 

My Parents are in their 80’s - any long term impact may not outlive them anyway. 

I’m in my 40’s - I don’t think I’ll want to be taking the vaccine until I’m entering the high-risk groups / age, by which time I think the vaccine will have been proven safe. 

 

That said, vaccines are most effective for their ‘herd effect’ when the vast majority of the population take them - but that depends how effective (ineffective) the vaccine is in the first place - if the vaccine is ineffective on less than 2% of people and most of the world has access, there is a good chance of eradicating Covid-19. However, if the vaccine is only 40-60% ineffective the virus will keep recycling and 40-60% of those in the high risk groups who have taken the vaccine will suffer less impact when struck with Covid-19.

[innosiem]

There is no such thing as an "anti vaxxer"

There are just people who are being deprived the freedom of choice.

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:02 AM, Yinn said:

 

Freedom? 

UK close many business because covid right? 

 

BS. 

 

 

 

 

Yes

You are demonstrating you are a tyrant who is advocating for your version of socialism/collectivism. Obey, don't think, ignore facts.

 

Speaking of closure of businesses, Thailand closed far more types and for longer than the UK did. Despite far fewer infections.

 

Mandatory vaccines? No thanks.

Some say the mask debate is a prelude to the coming vaccine debate. I agree in principle, though the risks of vaccines vs mask wearing are two different animals.

 

I understand prolonged wearing of masks has it's own set of health risks. Short-term wearing of masks, provided they're not politicized and forced on the population can protect oneself from dust and contaminants if used correctly. If masks are worn in a well-ventilated environment for as short a period of time as necessary to protect ones lungs from inhaling harmful particulate matter or dust say from working on a project such as home renovations, then all is well. Not so sure about wearing them to protect against germs - many studies indicate masks may do more harm than good, especially if healthy people are wearing them.

 

Vaccines, particularly pandemic vaccines that are rushed to market after little safety studies are done are an entirely different matter. Look at the 1976 swine flu shot debacle - lots of adverse reactions like narcolepsy, forcing pharmaceutical concerns and governments to abandon their mass vaccination campaigns after these went public.

 

I also suspect that many Thais, who may be OK with wearing masks won't be OK with a coerced vaccine much less a mandate. I remember reading an article about the head of a horse association in Pak Chong who expressed safety concerns about mass vaccination of horses against Hendra disease recently. He pointed out there is always a trade-off in terms of risks and benefits and suspected that the vaccination could make things worse.

 

Glad to see some Thais are intelligent and show they can reason, something which Yinn clearly can't do. She's a troll.

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 11:08 AM, Chivas said:

I can confidently say that Covid vaccine passports will be required to allow entry into Thailand when that is allowed sometime over the next couple years.

No certificate and you simply wont be coming in. I'd also expect the 30 day Visa exempt entry will disappear all applications to go via Embassies and Consulates.

 

No vaccine No Entry simple as.

Not sure it will happen that easily, but I've long suspected such a requirement may be looming in the 2020-2030 period.

 

Thailand is part of the UN/WHO system, so it will do whatever it's instructed to. What we won't be seeing is a unilateral requirement passed by Thailand when neighboring countries like Cambodia don't. All countries will be required to follow suit IF this requirement comes into place.

 

And I suspect it will go much further than just a covid shot, which will likely be annual. More than likely, MMR, tetanus and several other shots will be required too.

 

For some perspective, several Pacific islander countries introduced an MMR vaccine requirement to enter their countries since late 2019 after a measles outbreak in that region. Can't say whether it was temporary or not, seeing borders started closing down just months later and the only outbreak we're hearing about these days is covid.

 

And I don't see what eliminating 30/90 day visa waivers would have to do with it. If a vaccine requirement were to come into effect, you would need to show your certificate to get on board the aircraft and again at immigration. For entry via land borders, Thai immigration would request it there. Seeing that it's likely to become a universal requirement, expect outbound immigration from wherever you are coming from to request seeing it, and again upon arrival. Can easily be done even with a visa waiver. And seeing that the world is going digital, visa applications will increasingly be made online. Vaccination certificates could be requested that way too.

 

And it probably won't end there. The Thaichana/morchana apps and others developed around the world will eventually require vaccination status to allow entry to malls, shops and other public places.

 

I've known about this plan for several years. Please don't call me a "conspiracy theorist" though - I think critically and look at "authoritative sources" for details. They're the ones saying this.

For instance, there has been a European vaccine passport in development since 2018 and due to be implemented by 2023. That is the basis upon which something similar could be implemented worldwide in the coming years.

 

Despite everything we've been experiencing recently, I don't see vaccines being required for travel just yet - several countries have already opened up without any special requirements so by the time the rest of the world opens up, it will be business as usual for some time.

 

Also, we don't know whether an effective covid vaccine can even be developed.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/23/2020 at 12:10 PM, Yinn said:

US to pay Pfizer, BioNTech nearly $2bn for COVID-19 vaccines

 

The Trump administration will pay Pfizer and Germany's BioNTech SE nearly $2bn for a December delivery of 100 million doses of a COVID-19 vaccine the pharmaceutical companies are developing, the United States Department of Health and Human Services announced on Wednesday.

The US could buy another 500 million doses under the agreement.

The deal is part of President Donald Trump's Operation Warp Speed vaccine programme, under which multiple COVID-19 vaccines are being developed simultaneously. The programme aims to deliver 300 million doses of a safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine by January 2021.

 

Link 

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/pay-pfizer-biontech-2bn-covid-19-vaccines-200722130058951.html

Not enough for everyone. I would not want to be deciding who gets it.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, drbeach said:

Not sure it will happen that easily, but I've long suspected such a requirement may be looming in the 2020-2030 period.

 

Thailand is part of the UN/WHO system, so it will do whatever it's instructed to. What we won't be seeing is a unilateral requirement passed by Thailand when neighboring countries like Cambodia don't. All countries will be required to follow suit IF this requirement comes into place.

 

And I suspect it will go much further than just a covid shot, which will likely be annual. More than likely, MMR, tetanus and several other shots will be required too.

 

For some perspective, several Pacific islander countries introduced an MMR vaccine requirement to enter their countries since late 2019 after a measles outbreak in that region. Can't say whether it was temporary or not, seeing borders started closing down just months later and the only outbreak we're hearing about these days is covid.

 

And I don't see what eliminating 30/90 day visa waivers would have to do with it. If a vaccine requirement were to come into effect, you would need to show your certificate to get on board the aircraft and again at immigration. For entry via land borders, Thai immigration would request it there. Seeing that it's likely to become a universal requirement, expect outbound immigration from wherever you are coming from to request seeing it, and again upon arrival. Can easily be done even with a visa waiver. And seeing that the world is going digital, visa applications will increasingly be made online. Vaccination certificates could be requested that way too.

 

And it probably won't end there. The Thaichana/morchana apps and others developed around the world will eventually require vaccination status to allow entry to malls, shops and other public places.

 

I've known about this plan for several years. Please don't call me a "conspiracy theorist" though - I think critically and look at "authoritative sources" for details. They're the ones saying this.

For instance, there has been a European vaccine passport in development since 2018 and due to be implemented by 2023. That is the basis upon which something similar could be implemented worldwide in the coming years.

 

Despite everything we've been experiencing recently, I don't see vaccines being required for travel just yet - several countries have already opened up without any special requirements so by the time the rest of the world opens up, it will be business as usual for some time.

 

Also, we don't know whether an effective covid vaccine can even be developed.

Just as well I'm not planning to travel overseas again in this life.

IF a vaccine is developed governments will be praying it doesn't have serious side effects, or they'll be facing banishment to the waste at the next election.

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, rabas said:

Not wanting to turn this into a Thai-bashing ---- too late for that when you started on helmets.

 

Maybe it's the company you keep? Where I live I see lots of people every day in many scenarios,  Masks, alcohol, thermometers, and sign in sheets everywhere. Only smiles and courtesy, even from checkers. Just yesterday a kind lady waiting for a lift let me take the lift before her just to avoid riding together. Wonderful people.

 

Why would a Thai refuse a vaccine?

 

Maybe because they've done a risk benefit analysis and decided the risks are not worth it, especially when no double blind placebo or long term studies have been made?

 

And BTW he's right - most Thais are getting back to normal and gradually no longer wearing masks unless they are forced to, and what's wrong with that? Lao and Cambodians never wore them to begin with and word out of Vietnam is they've largely dropped mask requirements since May, despite other countries like Malaysia now making them compulsory.

[drbeach]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just as well I'm not planning to travel overseas again in this life.

IF a vaccine is developed governments will be praying it doesn't have serious side effects, or they'll be facing banishment to the waste at the next election.

Indeed. Just like what happened in 1976. And another little known fact - in 2009 governments purchased large stockpiles of the swine flu shot, were about to do a mass vaccination rollout but it failed because the pandemic was already over by that time.

 

The pharmaceutical companies still made record profits despite their product not being used - governments footed the bill, which ultimately means the taxpayer. It is all about money after all.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, robblok said:

Totally different in my part of Thailand all are still wearing masks. A bit less then before but when shopping all are wearing masks. People i see making trouble about it and putting fake names on lists are foreigners. I think Thais are far more likely to take the vaccine then the selfish gits that post here complaining about masks, social distancing and tracking.

From that post I can only surmise that you are OK about everyone taking an unproven vaccine despite the history of bad vaccines? Any vaccine that is available in less than 2 years is likely not guaranteed safe.

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:14 AM, JonnyF said:

Yinn, if all Thai people get the vaccine then all Thai people will be safe.

 

So you don't need to worry about foreigners thousands of miles away choosing not to have a vaccine since it will be them who suffer, not Thai people (since 100% Thai people will be vaccinated so you cannot catch it from them). You can even ban them from Thailand if you like, up to you. But it is not up to you whether they have it or not. And criticizing them and calling them names for choosing not to have it makes you look a bit immature.

 

Personally I would definitely get the vaccine, but it should be (and would be) my choice. If others choose not to and suffer the effects then that is their choice. It's called Freedom of choice, we're quite keen on it in the West and you should respect our culture as you expect us to respect yours.

I personally don't think all Thais will get the shot unless forced to. Thais only follow the laws when enforcement and punishment is draconian. If road rules were enforced, Thais would follow them. Yinn is clearly very tyrannical in her thinking, but she doesn't speak on behalf of all Thai people. Despite the massive fear mongering that the government has imposed on it's citizens, not all Thais are drinking the kool aid. Also, while many Thais may be OK with wearing masks (which nearly everyone assumes is only a temporary measure), it doesn't necessarily mean they'd be OK with receiving a coerced vaccine shot.

 

To be honest, despite everything that's been going on in Thailand, I don't see the country imposing a vaccine mandate either on it's citizens or anyone else. At most, it might follow WHO guidelines and possibly impose a vaccine requirement as a condition of entry to the country, but not to people already within the country.

 

Some employers might coerce their staff to get it, it may be essentially required for medical staff (btw I suspect some vaccines are already mandatory for this group of people but not sure) and there may be a mass rollout at public schools but other than that, I don't see it happening. I think this pandemic will be over long before a vaccine will become available.

 

There will likely be more pressure to impose mandatory vaccine requirements in other nations, especially those with totalitarian governments able to impose top-down control effectively, such as Vietnam. Now one country where vaccines are obligatory for all citizens is China. The law was passed Dec 1, 2019, meaning that when a covid vaccine does come around, it is safe to assume that it will be essentially forced upon all Chinese citizens including adults (not necessarily foreigners though).

 

https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/china-vaccine-law-passed/

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

From that post I can only surmise that you are OK about everyone taking an unproven vaccine despite the history of bad vaccines? Any vaccine that is available in less than 2 years is likely not guaranteed safe.

Yes I am ok with everyone taking it if they want to come to Thailand. By not having enough people take it its worthless. Free ride people should then not be allowed into Thailand. Whatever others decide in other countries is their choice (or that of the government). 

 

I am Thankful that they have a strong government in Thailand and that there is a high likelihood that they will make it mandatory. 

 

Those that won't take it risk others let them pay for their selfish attitude. 

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:07 AM, Yinn said:

Hmm, I think everyone (thai) will get vaccine. Better than loose business, job.

 

I agree people lazy to wear mask now a bit. Still necessary supermarket, plaza. 

Because we win covid already.

 

No case now 50+ day already. If have, everybody be serious again, sure.

Nonsense. Many Thais are much smarter than you, have some critical thinking skills left and will refuse.

 

Read a report in the paper a few weeks ago about the head of a Pak Chong horse association who expressed concerns about mass vaccination of horses against Hendra disease. He said mass vaccinations could be making the problem worse and he doesn't want it to be imposed by force.

 

He's right of course and I know for a fact many Thai people will decline. Including my own wife.

 

And besides, no government other than the most tyrannical ones like North Korea or China would try to impose a 100% vaccination uptake. Developing countries like Thailand don't even have the resources to do that anyway. Forest dwellers living in some remote national park in Tak province for instance are certainly not going to get it nor does the government have the power to force them to. Especially to continue living in a forest. For so-called "herd immunity", which in itself is a flawed concept when it comes to vaccinations, the uptake necessary is considered to be between 80-95%, never 100%.

 

You can also rest assured the wealthy and the elite won't be taking any shots. They are always exempt from such laws. And being Thailand, even in the unlikely event a shot were mandated, people will just bribe officials or pay off doctors to produce vaccination certificates. Which is what I would do if I were ever faced with such a predicament.

[drbeach]

Just now, robblok said:

Yes I am ok with everyone taking it if they want to come to Thailand. By not having enough people take it its worthless. Free ride people should then not be allowed into Thailand. Whatever others decide in other countries is their choice (or that of the government). 

 

I am Thankful that they have a strong government in Thailand and that there is a high likelihood that they will make it mandatory. 

 

Those that won't take it risk others let them pay for their selfish attitude. 

No, there is not a high likelihood they will make it mandatory. That is conjecture and I see little chance of it happening that way.

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:32 AM, robblok said:

Im disgusted with your attitude. I can accept you not wanting a vaccination but your not willing to give up anything for it. You just want your free ride. Im willing to take a small risk for everyone while you are not but want all the benefits. Utterly selfish. So yes I do hope they ban people like you from entrance and stuff like that. Then you can have your freedom but pay for it like i pay for the greater good by taking a small risk.

Your ability to spin everything to try to make you sound better sounds to me like you would make a good Communist. "For the greater good" right?

[Henryford]

I would certainly refuse one. What's in it, how long has it been tested !! At least here i can pay a few baht to get my "certification".

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, drbeach said:

No, there is not a high likelihood they will make it mandatory. That is conjecture and I see little chance of it happening that way.

Right.. just look at the measures they have in place now.. far stronger then other countries. So yes i see it happening. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Your ability to spin everything to try to make you sound better sounds to me like you would make a good Communist. "For the greater good" right?

Nothing to do with communism, just not selfish like the anti vaxers. 

[drbeach]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:20 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

The thing about wearing a mask or not is a culture thing. It is common for Asians to wear one, especially in China because of the appalling pollution and in Japan out of politeness and consideration for others. But it is a completely alien concept for those in Europe/USA/Australia, and it takes a massive mind-shift to adapt to wearing one. Some, especially in the USA, are stupid and stubborn enough to believe that it is in violation of their human rights. And we've seen the results of that.

You were on the right track but I have to take exception to your last sentence. Yes, imposing something by force IS a violation of human rights and liberties I'm afraid. The American Constitution and Bill of Rights is quite explicit about that.

You also forgot to mention that in collectivist cultures people are discouraged from asking questions or engaging in critical enquiry. The opposite to most western cultures.

 

And there are good reasons to not want to wear a mask...such as if you have health conditions where breathing is difficult for you. Or for young children. Anyone who's suffering from dementia or autism isn't going to be able to wear a mask. Asthma patients. And then you have studies that indicate prolonged mask wearing may do more harm than good and make you more susceptible to contracting germs that, in a weakened immune system can cause illness.

 

It's not as black and white as most simple minded people think it is. The fact is, this whole mask debate has been greatly politicized in the same way as the vaccine debate has been. While I believe the facts regarding vaccines lean more towards the anti than the pro side, the facts should rule the day.

 

Same with masks - which, I believe, if used sparingly for their intended purposes are OK. But they should NEVER be imposed by force.

 

Fortunately, it is logical to conclude that mask mandates are only temporary. I think Thais, like the rest of the world implicitly knows that we're not going to be wearing masks indefinitely. Perhaps 3 more months, according to several articles I've read in the mainstream media.