Expat exodus under way?

[herfiehandbag]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps I should be finding a sarcasm alert icon, for the underprivileged.

Perhaps - I certainly missed it...

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, 86Tiger said:

I gotta say wrong on this implication of US being doom and gloom.

 

Life in US is back to normal.  There are still lot of mask nazis but for most part all have accepted there is a virus in the world and you may get sick.  But 99.9% will be over it in week or so just like everything else.

 

Now, the economy being a bombed out shell of itself is a different conversation.....

America is getting on average 40,000 new infections every day, 1000 deaths every day. There are 2.5 million sick people. The USA is heading into winter, when the virus is more active. I would not describe a country where 12% of the population are getting food stamps as normal.

This virus is not the flu, there are many younger people who are not getting over it in a week or so. It can cause serious lung damage. The medicos are now worried the loss of taste and smell is indicative of Parkinsonism in some patients, i.e. long-term neurological damage.

Your opinion is like Trump in the face of fairly stark facts. Wish it away, not happening.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Lacessit

[4737 Carlin]

13 hours ago, a3tsw said:

The American guy referred to had a business building electric cycles/bikes here for many years..

The market for e-bicycles has boomed in the last few years. There are waiting lists to get them in Western countries. His business should have been very lucrative - although the Thai market is non-existent. Thai's would rather fart exhaust fumes and make lots of noise than get any exercise.

[DouglasTsui]

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Not an exodus, but a constant trickle towards the exit door. Numbers for September will be out in a couple of weeks.

All in all Thailand have a net loss of 21,762 foreigners in August 2020 and oddly enough also lost 794 Thai.

 

Myanmar -10,188

Laos -4,201

Chinese -2,453

Russians -1,416

British -605

French -503

Germans -453

Philippines -256

Vietnamese -202

Ukrainians -200

Indian -185

Italian -168

Swedish -121

Swiss -117

Canadians -109

Pakistani -88

Malaysian -68

Dutch -64

Belgian -62

Spanish -47

Norwegian -43

 

A few nationalities have actually managed to enter in increasing numbers.

Cambodian +328

South Korean +303

American +209

Taiwanese +63

Australian +44

 

 

 

where's the source of all these info from may i ask? Wikipedia? Fox News? DT Press Secy?

 

[Yahooka]

7 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Remember there were a joint Thai-US military exercise in August?

Army and supporting personnel were probably a large part of the +209 Americans in August.

 

BANGKOK — More than a hundred American troops are participating in a military exercise in Thailand amid the coronavirus pandemic that infected at least 4.8 million people in the U.S., the government said Monday. 

Taweesin Visanuyothin, spokesman of the Center for the COVID-19 Situation Administration, said the 110 soldiers will fly into the country from their bases in Guam and Japan for a joint exercise with Thai soldiers, despite the army’s pledge to suspend such operations due to the coronavirus threat. 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2020/08/04/army-admits-110-us-soldiers-for-joint-exercise-in-pandemic/

And also plenty of foreigners (including aussies and americans) working in the industrial complexes ,Rayong is one of them.

[whaleboneman]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Never been many foreigners around here so can't see what "Exodus" you are referring to.

Went to an old Germans funeral a couple of weeks ago, died of a brain hemorrhage

Segue of the year award!

[donnacha]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

As a boozer I can definitely say Thailand is really cheap.

But, as a fellow fan of Vietnam, you might agree that, overall, it works out even cheaper there.

I even find booze in Spain significantly cheaper than Thailand.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by donnacha

[hansgruber]

4 hours ago, DouglasTsui said:

where's the source of all these info from may i ask? Wikipedia? Fox News? DT Press Secy?

 

He posted the source. Try reading the thread and you'll find it. 

[ChasingTheSun]

I personally know at least 6 foreigners who cant wait to come to Thailand once the borders reopen. I am also hearing that more people than ever are considering retiring in Thailand.

 

The good news for Thailand is that there is still no real competition to Thailand.

 

Perhaps the thread title should be changed to “Expat Exodus TO Thailand Coming”?

[Walker88]

8 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

I gotta say wrong on this implication of US being doom and gloom.

 

Life in US is back to normal.  There are still lot of mask nazis but for most part all have accepted there is a virus in the world and you may get sick.  But 99.9% will be over it in week or so just like everything else.

 

Now, the economy being a bombed out shell of itself is a different conversation.....

You wouldn't like Thailand. Probably too much mask wearing for you, such as being mandatory on public transportation or entering major shopping venues. Temp checks and sign-ins, too. 59 deaths so far from Covid-19 here, vs 204,000 in the "back to normal" US with "the economy {being} a bombed out shell of itself" (not sure how to parse those two).

 

Science is a wonderful thing, but it can often reveal scary truths, or suggest caution in certain behaviors. Only slowly are some of the secrets of Covid-19 being uncovered. Apparently in developing brains (a kind of euphemism for 'children')  it impacts neural connections. Brains get messed up, resulting in behavioral changes, and in some cases hallucinations. Further study is required. In even healthy young adults it impacts different organs, despite an asymptomatic initial attack. A star pitcher for the Boston Red Sox had his heart so affected he was forced to take the season off. The damage may be permanent. The effects of the virus are only slowly evidencing themselves, apart from the high death toll that is again on the upsurge in the US, back over 1000 per day.

 

Science trumps hopes, wishful thinking, or denial. Caution is appropriate when not everything is known. Pretending something that flies in the face of facts is foolhardy, as is now clear in the US, a country sitting at #4 in deaths per capita of 192 countries where Covid-19 is present, and likely to become #2, behind only Belgium, in the next week or two (using Johns Hopkins University data). Hardly a good job.

 

Thailand made a choice that trying to squelch the virus domestically is worth the economic hit. Maybe they're right, maybe not. As the facts surrounding Covid-19 become more well known, Thailand will know what requirements it can relax and what it must keep. There is pain either way, but they certainly do not want people who would use a term like 'mask nazi', because that implies a view totally at odds with how Thai medical authorities view the threat of the virus. If you were here, you would be prohibited from entering public places/transport if you insisted on your 'right' to go mask-less. You would be part of an expat exodus, but likely at the request of Thailand.

[DJ54]

10 hours ago, kenk24 said:

the liars letter

That’s not necessary... Cheers

Edited September 25, 2020 by DJ54
Not added

[Curt1591]

10 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

I gotta say wrong on this implication of US being doom and gloom.

 

Life in US is back to normal.  There are still lot of mask nazis but for most part all have accepted there is a virus in the world and you may get sick.  But 99.9% will be over it in week or so just like everything else.

 

Now, the economy being a bombed out shell of itself is a different conversation.....

I'm not talking COVID or the economy ... ????

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

You wouldn't like Thailand. Probably too much mask wearing for you, such as being mandatory on public transportation or entering major shopping venues.

Chiang Mai,

I wear it entering the bank, 7-11 and Tesco, off the moment I exit the stores ......... same as the Thais.

Apart from Bangkok there isn't any 'public transportation'.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, hansgruber said:

He posted the source. Try reading the thread and you'll find it. 

A file, but no source for the file.

[CH1961]

17 hours ago, trucking said:

Those people were still spending money here and their departure will not benefit the Thai economy in any way. 

The old story about the shirtless drunk big spenders ????

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Here's my story. About 3 years ago, I changed provinces out in Issan for work. In the new province I found a wonderful farang bar, where I met some wonderful people from various walks of life. Retirees, backpackers, guys on long pilgramages to find themselves or something, couples on exciting holidays, and other teachers. Good times.

 

Over the years, their numbers began to dwindle, coinciding with tougher immigration, the Big Joke debacle, the Embassy income letters, the nit picking of bank documents, weaker foreign currencies, and the stronger baht. I heard these complaints right there in the bar. Then these customers began disappearing.

 

Upon my last day in the bar, having landed a new job in BKK, I reminsced with the owner and two remaining customers about how sad it was to leave. We remarked on how this pain was softened by the fact the bar, and its surrounding town, weren't the same anymore anyway.

 

About a year ago now, upon moving in to our BKK condo, I saw we had a few other farang neighbors. Young guys who looked like teachers. Older guys who looked like retirees. Other older, dressed well farangs, who perhaps worked for multinationals. These began disappearing too. I now seem to be the only farang left for quite some distance. I occasionally see a couple at the 7-11, and I've met a Filipino teacher who lives around the corner.

[Peterw42]

21 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Here's my story. About 3 years ago, I changed provinces out in Issan for work. In the new province I found a wonderful farang bar, where I met some wonderful people from various walks of life. Retirees, backpackers, guys on long pilgramages to find themselves or something, couples on exciting holidays, and other teachers. Good times.

 

Over the years, their numbers began to dwindle, coinciding with tougher immigration, the Big Joke debacle, the Embassy income letters, the nit picking of bank documents, weaker foreign currencies, and the stronger baht. I heard these complaints right there in the bar. Then these customers began disappearing.

 

Upon my last day in the bar, having landed a new job in BKK, I reminsced with the owner and two remaining customers about how sad it was to leave. We remarked on how this pain was softened by the fact the bar, and its surrounding town, weren't the same anymore anyway.

 

About a year ago now, upon moving in to our BKK condo, I saw we had a few other farang neighbors. Young guys who looked like teachers. Older guys who looked like retirees. Other older, dressed well farangs, who perhaps worked for multinationals. These began disappearing too. I now seem to be the only farang left for quite some distance. I occasionally see a couple at the 7-11, and I've met a Filipino teacher who lives around the corner.

A lot of the people you describe are not expats, backpackers, holiday makers, guys teaching on tourist visa's etc are not staying long term and never were.

Everyone's personal observations will be different, I personally dont know of any expats who have left.

The "empty bar stool measure" of expats is probably not a great broad indicator.

Retirees/married hasnt really changed, they just had to change how they showed funds. Most of them dont live in BKK.

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

Segue of the year award!

People are departing all the time, one way or another. I do not know very many foreigners so one gone is a significant percentage.

It is common practice on this forum for many to use distorted statistics to try and support some point of view. Not very popular however when it goes against the consensus.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, peterrabbit said:

Covid has just speeded up what was already happening.

Covid has, and will, accelerate many changes in the way people live as time goes by.

Online shopping probably one of the most significant. Retail outlets will struggle and distribution networks will thrive. In the last year at least 3 Kerry shops and a distribution centre have opened within a couple of miles radius of our house.

Many, particularly in the older age group have been made to feel vulnerable and a reluctance to travel has developed, and any future holidays are more likely to be domestic. This will be exasperated by a contraction in the aviation sector and the inevitable increase in costs.

I am still in touch with those I joined up with and we have regular zoom meetings, virtually all have now accepted that they will never fly again.

As you have pointed out Thailand has seen some more specific changes so it is hardly surprising that many see their future being more secure in the nanny state.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

A lot of the people you describe are not expats, backpackers, holiday makers, guys teaching on tourist visa's etc are not staying long term and never were.

I said retirees. They were on long term retirement visas, which we had often talked about. Note I mentioned the problems with Embassy letters and foreign currencies. Some of the backpackers and travelers also had long term visas, for retirement, Non-O for marriage, supporting families with remote work, digital nomads. You can't teach for very long on a tourist visa. They worked for government schools, which need complete paperwork. Some get away without this at language schools or tutoring centers, of which there aren't many out in the provinces. Again, I said this was Issan. Most of the teachers I'd met had been at their schools several years. With the exception of the few, clearly holiday makers, I consider all of them expats.

 

I teach reading comprehension. I often have to tell my students to find the information, not just skim, and guess what it might be.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

I personally know at least 6 foreigners who cant wait to come to Thailand once the borders reopen. I am also hearing that more people than ever are considering retiring in Thailand.

 

The good news for Thailand is that there is still no real competition to Thailand.

 

Perhaps the thread title should be changed to “Expat Exodus TO Thailand Coming”?

You may be right. Despite all the visa BS, Thailand does have superior health infrastructure to most other countries in the region, and apart from the Philippines, the availability of female company is second to none. I've lost count of the number of Thai women who have asked me if I have a GF or wife here, I know what the second question would be if I said no. While I'm not as ugly as a hatful of bums, I'm getting there.

Life in Thailand can be very enjoyable for a retiree, provided they are willing to adapt.

[madmen]

Vast majority are pensioners who ain't going nowhere, if anything it's a bonus to have deals now available with competition heating up 

Border bouncers good riddance. It's unfortunate that legit workers and bussines owners are forced out but it's the way of the world in the new normal. Non pensioners are far better off back home under their respective govt social security networks eg Australia can't stop throwing money at the population and another $700 xmas bonus coming soon.. 

[Henryford]

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

But, as a fellow fan of Vietnam, you might agree that, overall, it works out even cheaper there.

I even find booze in Spain significantly cheaper than Thailand.

 

Booze is cheaper everywhere compared to Thailand. I don't know how the Thais afford it.

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, madmen said:

Vast majority are pensioners who ain't going nowhere, if anything it's a bonus to have deals now available with competition heating up 

Border bouncers good riddance. It's unfortunate that legit workers and bussines owners are forced out but it's the way of the world in the new normal. Non pensioners are far better off back home under their respective govt social security networks eg Australia can't stop throwing money at the population and another $700 xmas bonus coming soon.. 

Under my personal circumstances, I  can't agree with you 100%. I think I'm better off here than being in Stage 4 lockdown in Melbourne, I'd be climbing the walls by now.

I get my part pension coming through here every fortnight. Sure, I miss out on the stimulus stuff, but that's no biggie. Here, I can play golf, swim, travel wherever I want to. Try that in Melbourne, the plod would be fining me heavily, or hauling me off in handcuffs.

Sure, I get free medical treatment in Oz. I'm having a medical check done at Bangkok Hospital soon, $750. Even ignoring all the border stuff, and whether I could get a flight back to Oz, I would still be shelling out twice or more than that in air fares to get back there. And then I could not return to Thailand.

Certainly non-pensioners who have lost their employment here are better off in Oz. Why the f##k the Federal Government can't get off its bum and deploy RAAF transports to get

them home beats me. It's not as if the flyboys have anything to do at present but chew up taxpayer dollars.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Lacessit

[madmen]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Under my personal circumstances, I  can't agree with you 100%. I think I'm better off here than being in Stage 4 lockdown in Melbourne, I'd be climbing the walls by now.

I get my part pension coming through here every fortnight. Sure, I miss out on the stimulus stuff, but that's no biggie. Here, I can play golf, swim, travel wherever I want to. Try that in Melbourne, the plod would be fining me heavily, or hauling me off in handcuffs.

Sure, I get free medical treatment in Oz. I'm having a medical check done at Bangkok Hospital soon, $750. Even ignoring all the border stuff, and whether I could get a flight back to Oz, I would still be shelling out twice or more than that in air fares to get back there. And then I could not return to Thailand.

Certainly non-pensioners who have lost their employment here are better off in Oz. Why the f##k the Federal Government can't get off its bum and deploy RAAF transports to get

them home beats me. It's not as if the flyboys have anything to do at present but chew up taxpayer dollars.

Like I said it's for non pensioners only but you make some good points. Indeed the medical system here is outstanding and simple Check up for me has brought up a whole host of problems and getting them all treated through the gold coast hospital which is public but 5 star service all for free. 

 

Melbourne is the only place in full lockdown but rest of oz is non mask waering normal or as close to as possible. 

The reason they are not sending evacuation flights is because of there daily cap. Same as Thailand, they can handle only so many in the system at once. And a nice surprise awaits them now with a $2500 hotel charge! Most are avoiding going home unless it's absolutely necessary 

[geriatrickid]

There have been multiple discussions of the value of some foreign residents.

 

It is obvious that some folks do not understand that the money spent by a large number  of long stay visitors was insignificant. They were not Investing in the creation of wealth or in the growth of the country.  Even basic retirees are a zero sum demographic unless those retirees are located in the higher end communities and invest in property and services.  The Thai government knows that and this is why it has tried to find away to bring back the profitable long stay Scandinavians.

 

The border hoppers and their basic living conditions will not be missed financially. The border hoppers who worked the boiler rooms won't be missed. The vast majority of people forced to leave should not have been in Thailand because they could not meet the financial conditions.

 

Yes, many foreigners have  gone home. In the case of some large companies they were  repatriated in accordance with operating requirements, but they will be back.  Yes, some   foreign investors and small business operators have left or will leave because their businesses have failed. That is not Thailand's fault. They either had a bad business or it was a business that would have suffered no matter the location. Hotels, and the bar and restaurant business has collapsed around the world. The world is a harsh place. Ask a kid starving in war ravaged Yemen.

 

The retirees who planned and budgeted don't have to go. The business operators who had a well managed and capitalized business don't have to go. Essential industry businesses are staying. For example, some of the foreign controlled PPE manufacturers can't keep up with the market demands.

Yes, alot of  low end beer bar operators/pimps have had to close shop. Yes some coffee shops closed. It's called supply and demand. It is survival of the fittest. Those who survive the market shakeout will prosper over time.

 

Yes, many homes/condos are up for sale or rent. It was that way last year in Cha Am when I was walking around.  The economy sucks worldwide. people can't afford  their old lifestyles, let alone two homes. We are in  for a very harsh economic climate for the next 5 years+.  wait until interest rates  jump in a couple years.

 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Booze is cheaper everywhere compared to Thailand.

Obviously you are not from Canada... 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Booze is cheaper everywhere compared to Thailand. I don't know how the Thais afford it.

Depends on what you buy. Wine in Thailand is ridiculously priced. 600 baht for a bottle of Jacob's Creek?

OTOH, whisky here is half the cost of the same brand in Australia.

Lao Khao is less than 100 baht a bottle. Not that I would drink the stuff.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Henryford said:

Booze is cheaper everywhere compared to Thailand. I don't know how the Thais afford it.

Red Cock Vodka 150bht/bottle in Tesco.

Black Cock Whiskey 130Bht/bottle Tesco.

Hong Thong Rum 300bht/bottle everywhere.

 

Which western countries can you buy cheaper than that?

[madmen]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Red Cock Vodka 150bht/bottle in Tesco.

Black Cock Whiskey 130Bht/bottle Tesco.

Hong Thong Rum 300bht/bottle everywhere.

 

Which western countries can you buy cheaper than that?

Methalated spirits, bunnings 70 baht everywhere. Doubt it could taste worse than black cock whisky