2 hours ago, mr mr said:

we shut down the world to stop a virus that you had to get tested in most cases to even know you had it. 

 

 

Yes that is the case , so why bother ? Well because some others , maybe your parents , do not need the test because they get very sick or die , while you maybe had nothing . You maybe are the engine which is feeding the machine , just because you only think about yourself .

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The people on oxygen in intensive care would disagree with you.

@Lacessit nonsensical argument. otherwise i could argue people who drive cars shouldn't, cuz of people killed by em.  we could be here all day with these sort of arguments 

42 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Not to mention that, as per the CDC itself, only around 6% of the deaths are fully related to covid 19, the other 94% being deaths WITH covid 19 from people suffering of multiple co-morbities. 

Yes , and they were dying anyway ... In fact let us close the hospitals , because basically , everybody is dying on 1 reason or another , so far in the billions of people who lived , nobody so far survived .

Yes by far the most people dying are old , and weren't in best shape , which is logical when they are old .

I hope you get to the respectable age , most of the C19 deaths are . And let's not forget , there are other things then dying also . I've lost a few family members ( far family) of C19 , and i know several others ( not family ) who were in hospital . 1 person , came back from hospital incontinent ... . Many people are suffering after the disease , for many months . You do not find those numbers in the stats , because basically , they no longer got C19 , and are just 1 of the millions of confirmed infected .

20 minutes ago, sezze said:

Yes that is the case , so why bother ? Well because some others , maybe your parents , do not need the test because they get very sick or die , while you maybe had nothing . You maybe are the engine which is feeding the machine , just because you only think about yourself .

 

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

 

...
Simple truths - COVID mainly kills old, sick people, with a higher fatality rate in the West due to rampant obesity ..... these people would probably die during the year anyway - with or without COVID. 
...

I call total B.S. You clearly just made up your big lie that "these people would probably die during the year anyway" to further your agenda. It's a false statement. There is no evidence for that. You should retract it. Sure, some people would have but people commonly live for many decades with the typical preexisting conditions associated with high risk of death from Covid-19. Your blatant distortion is part of a vile denialist agenda. Pushback is needed against such dangerous garbage.

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The people on oxygen in intensive care would disagree with you.

Shouldn't shut <deleted> down when it's an average mortality age of 83 yrs end of! 

5 minutes ago, Sharp said:

Shouldn't shut <deleted> down when it's an average mortality age of 83 yrs end of! 

Link showing that please. 

So in my state of Colorado there have been 2000 deaths. That's a rate of 35 per 100,000 from a population of 5.7 million, or (2000/5700000)*100000. In Colorado 45% of the deaths were 80 or over and 67% were 70+ (life expectancy is 78 in the US and probably a little higher in Colorado). The hospitalization figures are 4x the deaths (what % of people were admitted because of the severity of the illness or just to monitor for conditions??). Extensive stats from Denver: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/50dbb5e7dfb6495292b71b7d8df56d0a and Colorado: https://covid19.colorado.gov/data.

 

In the Chiang Mai metro area there are 900,000 people so if we transferred the rates over that would be 315 deaths (35*9=315) 211 of which (315*0.67) would be 70+.

So the question is would you notice if 200 elderly died in Chiang Mai over the last 8 months? Old people die and have other issues so we tend to accept these things. The other 100 younger people could raise some red flags but again that's a small number for the entire Chiang Mai region. 

 

Maybe the hospitalizations would be the key to noticing but I think it's entirely possible we would not even know COVID existed if we weren't reminded on a daily basis. These numbers are just not that huge.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I call total B.S. You clearly just made up your big lie that "these people would probably die during the year anyway" to further your agenda. It's a false statement. There is no evidence for that. You should retract it. Sure, some people would have but people commonly live for many decades with the typical preexisting conditions associated with high risk of death from Covid-19. Your blatant distortion is part of a vile denialist agenda. Pushback is needed against such dangerous garbage.

You can continue to wallow in fear, but the majority of deaths from COVID are clearly in elderly people and people with pre-existing conditions, whereas the deaths from diarrhea, malaria are predominently in under fives.

 

I know it's hard to admit you've fallen for the media induced fear campaign, but you need to look at the COVID stats in a wider context.

5 hours ago, mr mr said:

i am sure they would. how about the 99.9 percent who actually recover ? is it too early to call dibs on a covid-19 halloween costume ? it would be one of the best clown suits ever thought up. 

 

Currently its nearer 97%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

1 in 32 (ish) have died.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Currently its nearer 97%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

1 in 32 (ish) have died.

 

 

 

Need to factor in the high numbers of undiagnosed and symptomless cases, which will siginificantly reduce the fatality rate.  Then allow for people who died of other causes, but happened to also test positive for COVID.

 

Unlrelable and largely meaningless stats like these are the key problem.

Yes, it's to kill the classic economy and send millions into dependency and deprivation..

to later blockchain you and your soul into their system.

3 hours ago, sezze said:

Yes that is the case , so why bother ? Well because some others , maybe your parents , do not need the test because they get very sick or die , while you maybe had nothing . You maybe are the engine which is feeding the machine , just because you only think about yourself .

My parents are in the final years of their lives and they'd rather take their chances with Covid than stay cooped up every day. They also see how this is ruining the lives of the younger generations, and they don't want those youngsters suffering for their sakes. 

It's time the world faced Covid head on because it's not going away. The vulnerable people can shield themselves if they choose to do so, and they should be given all the necessary support. 

5 hours ago, Kinnock said:

You are reinforcing the OP's point.

 

Yes, TB has an effective vaccine, yes it's largely preventable with a vaccination campaign and improvements in basic public health and nutrition ....... and yet it still kills more people every year than COVID-19 - highlighting the illogical over-reaction by many governments.

 

The biological differences between bacteria and viruses are largely irrelevant - we need to assess relative risks and take proportionate actions.

 

Diarrhoeal diseases kill many, many more people than COVID - with most of the deaths being kids under 5 years old.  So why so much focus on COVID and so little on the leading causes of death?

 

Simple truths - COVID mainly kills old, sick people, with a higher fatality rate in the West due to rampant obesity ..... these people would probably die during the year anyway - with or without COVID.  But TB, malaria and diarrhea mainly kills poor children in Africa and South Asia - so the elderly, Western global descision makers don't care.

 

If Johns Hopkins tracked and reported deaths from TB, diarrhea, malaria and HIV every day - people would see the insanity, but reporting COVID stats in isolation has created an unscientific panic.  Add in deaths from heart disease and road accidents, and we could all see the huge mistake being made.

Disagree. All the ailments and road accidents you cite are preventable. The fact they still occur is due to failed states and poor lifestyles. HIV transmission doesn't occur with sexual activity if people use condoms.

Show me how coronavirus is preventable without quarantine. AFAIK few of us have access to Trump's lavish cocktail of medications.

There's a hell of a difference between bacteria and viruses. Physical size for one, most bacteria are ten times the size of the average virus. Amenability to treatment with antibiotics is another. It's no accident COVID-19 clusters occur wherever there is meat processing, it obviously loves protein. One up for the vegetarians.

IMO you are simply expanding on the OP's look over there shtick. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle.

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Disagree. All the ailments and road accidents you cite are preventable. The fact they still occur is due to failed states and poor lifestyles. HIV transmission doesn't occur with sexual activity if people use condoms.

 

I don't think anyone is saying this is unfair. We're just at the point now after many months, saying: if YOU are concerned, then YOU take actions to protect YOURSELF and leave the rest of us out of this. Everyone entertained the idea of masks and lockdowns in the early stages but that was MONTHS ago and we see no end in sight to the hysteria.

31 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I don't think anyone is saying this is unfair. We're just at the point now after many months, saying: if YOU are concerned, then YOU take actions to protect YOURSELF and leave the rest of us out of this. Everyone entertained the idea of masks and lockdowns in the early stages but that was MONTHS ago and we see no end in sight to the hysteria.

I suppose there are protective actions I can take as an individual, but people are such idiots. Knowingly breaching quarantine while infected, attending large gatherings etc. Voluntary self-isolation works about as well as the Rolex I bought in Jakarta for $20.

I'm in northern Thailand, and my freedom of movement is virtually unrestricted. Drove from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai yesterday. Playing golf tomorrow.

IMO what you are describing is battle fatigue.

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Need to factor in the high numbers of undiagnosed and symptomless cases, which will siginificantly reduce the fatality rate.  Then allow for people who died of other causes, but happened to also test positive for COVID.

 

Unlrelable and largely meaningless stats like these are the key problem.

 

Don't disagree but its the only data we have at the moment. I suspect the real figure is somewhere between 98.5% - 99%

 

 

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

8 hours ago, sezze said:

Yes that is the case , so why bother ? Well because some others , maybe your parents , do not need the test because they get very sick or die , while you maybe had nothing . You maybe are the engine which is feeding the machine , just because you only think about yourself .

My parents are in the final years of their lives and they'd rather take their chances with Covid than stay cooped up every day. They also see how this is ruining the lives of the younger generations, and they don't want those youngsters suffering for their sakes. 

It's time the world faced Covid head on because it's not going away. The vulnerable people can shield themselves if they choose to do so, and they should be given all the necessary support. 

both my mother and father are 77 years old and have told me they would gladly die if it meant giving me my future back.

 

 

27 minutes ago, mr mr said:

both my mother and father are 77 years old and have told me they would gladly die if it meant giving me my future back.

 

 

Do you really believe you got no future ? Better find a high building then ...

Yes , it is bad , NOW . And yes 2020 had been a bad year , and maybe even 21 will be a bad year , too early to tell . But they will find vaccine and therapies , and will find ways to get back to normal status . The normal status might not be like the old status , like every big thing , it leaves tracks through society , but all will be more or less like 2019 again in a few years . Do not be so depressed , the glass isn't half empty , but it isn't half full also .

32 minutes ago, mr mr said:

both my mother and father are 77 years old and have told me they would gladly die if it meant giving me my future back.

 

 

 

I've lived through the Cold War, Mutual Assured Destruction, 9/11, the GFC etc. etc. Always found my future is in my own hands.

I am 77 years old too. I apologize for living longer than is convenient for you.

9 hours ago, Kinnock said:

You are reinforcing the OP's point.

 

Yes, TB has an effective vaccine, yes it's largely preventable with a vaccination campaign and improvements in basic public health and nutrition ....... and yet it still kills more people every year than COVID-19 - highlighting the illogical over-reaction by many governments.

 

The biological differences between bacteria and viruses are largely irrelevant - we need to assess relative risks and take proportionate actions.

 

Diarrhoeal diseases kill many, many more people than COVID - with most of the deaths being kids under 5 years old.  So why so much focus on COVID and so little on the leading causes of death?

 

Simple truths - COVID mainly kills old, sick people, with a higher fatality rate in the West due to rampant obesity ..... these people would probably die during the year anyway - with or without COVID.  But TB, malaria and diarrhea mainly kills poor children in Africa and South Asia - so the elderly, Western global descision makers don't care.

 

If Johns Hopkins tracked and reported deaths from TB, diarrhea, malaria and HIV every day - people would see the insanity, but reporting COVID stats in isolation has created an unscientific panic.  Add in deaths from heart disease and road accidents, and we could all see the huge mistake being made.

This wins the internet today!! Well said.

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

 

12 hours ago, Don Chance said:

Here are 8 reasons COVID is so much worse than the covidiots think,

-COVID Can Damage Your Heart
-COVID Damages Young People's Hearts Even When They Don't Have Symptoms
-COVID Can Damage Your Brain and Even Produce Dementia, Parkinson's
-Months After COVID Infection, You Can Still Lose Your Taste and Smell
-Many Get Chronic Fatigue—and Nobody Knows How Long It Will Last
-You Can Damage Your Fingers and Toes, and Even Lose Your Legs
-You May Think You're Getting Better, and Then It Kills You
-You May Not Even Know You Have It—Until You Infect Somebody Else.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/09/here-are-8-reasons-covid-is-so-much-worse-than-the-skeptics-think/

Any stats to back that up?

Sweden rocks!

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Any stats to back that up?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/evidence-builds-covid-19-can-damage-heart-doctors-are-racing-understand-it

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200604/covid19-loss-of-smell-taste-might-be-long-term#1

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sweden rocks!

583 deaths per million population, it's up there alright. AFAIK you are currently in New Zealand, death rate 5. If you're one of these people that would rather die than be in lockdown...........

*Deleted post edited out*

 

My son in Australia knows two people, young, fit and healthy, who are facing months of rehabilitation. Anecdotal, I know.

Perhaps you can post some statistical evidence COVID-19 is harmless long term. Unfortunately, we'll have to exclude the dead.

1 hour ago, sezze said:

but all will be more or less like 2019 again in a few years . Do not be so depressed , the glass isn't half empty , but it isn't half full also .

 

ahhhh put down the bong and wake up my friend. the fun is just beginning. if you really think things are just going to slide back into 2019 mode in a little while i strongly suggest going to seek some professional help. you are completely delusional and obtuse with that statement. 

 

who said i was depressed ? i am f***ing P***ed off to no end. every morning i wake up i lose another day of my life to this nonsense. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

I've lived through the Cold War, Mutual Assured Destruction, 9/11, the GFC etc. etc. Always found my future is in my own hands.

I am 77 years old too. I apologize for living longer than is convenient for you.

any more of YOU you want to talk about ? this kind of attitude is why your generation is going to go down as one of the most hated ever to walk this earth.

 

stay selfish my friend.

18 minutes ago, mr mr said:

any more of YOU you want to talk about ? this kind of attitude is why your generation is going to go down as one of the most hated ever to walk this earth.

 

stay selfish my friend.

That generation is your parents or grandparents .... i hope they hear it from you that you hate them ... . And no i do not belong to that generation , but that generation worked for what you got now , including you could go to Thailand before , and you can write stupid things on the internet , and so many more things .