Why does the UK suffer such huge death rates from Covid?

[Susco]

7 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

 

Quote:

 

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

 

 

 

I've seen that as well, but what does it mean?

 

Deaths are deaths, my understanding of that note is that COVID deaths are included in the figures and not separated.

 

Do you think UN figures are not based on numbers provided by the UK government?

[polpott]

10 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

Because your assumptions are false. In the UK Covid deaths in May reached a peak of close to 1000, yesterday, 367. France yesterday, 523.

[Natai Beach]

Because the UK government decided to send COVID-19 positive old people into nursing homes and as a result it spread and killed thousands. 
They wanted to keep the beds free for young people, who generally only have mild symptoms. 
 

Harsh.

 

Plus the doctors and nurses didn’t have suitable protective clothing. So they caught it and spread it to thousands of others.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Natai Beach

[polpott]

6 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

So they caught it and spread it to thousands of others.

Not true. the problem caused by front line workers catching Covid was not that they spread it to "thousands of others" but it created even greater staff shortages on the wards. Also, some staff became reluctant to work with Covid patients.

 

Also complete nonsense that they wanted to keep the beds free for young people. It was the age old bed blocking issue.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by polpott

[NorthernRyland]

Here's excess deaths in the US. Considering 70% of deaths were people over 70 it's not *that* bad in terms of years of life lost. It only looks like a catastrophe when you start tallying together all deaths on aggregate and repeating the number over and over again to the public. 

[Natai Beach]

55 minutes ago, polpott said:

Not true. the problem caused by front line workers catching Covid was not that they spread it to "thousands of others" but it created even greater staff shortages on the wards. Also, some staff became reluctant to work with Covid patients.

 

Also complete nonsense that they wanted to keep the beds free for young people. It was the age old bed blocking issue.

 

 

No, it is very true. 

it is also true that the U.K. didn’t test enough. 
So the truenumber of infected people hasn’t been revealed. It is much higher than the official figures. That is part of the reason the death rate to infection rate in the U.K. is so high compared to nearly every other country. 
 

They are about to get smashed again. One balls up after another really. Didn’t lock down fast enough, wanted to “take it on the chin” , the testing balls up, tracing balls up, no protective clothing balls up, they advised people not to wear masks balls up, opened up too early balls up, etc etc

 

The UK did everything wrong, and the high deaths are the result. 

 

But the biggest balls up was the sending of covid infected people into nursing homes. It will be a sad xmas for many families this year. 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-how-elderly-paid-price-of-protecting-nhs-from-covid-19-7n62kkbtb

[dimitriv]

59 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Here's excess deaths in the US. Considering 70% of deaths were people over 70 it's not *that* bad in terms of years of life lost. It only looks like a catastrophe when you start tallying together all deaths on aggregate and repeating the number over and over again to the public. 

 

 

That's only 25000 excess deaths each week in May?

 

That's really nothing. And those old people who were almost dead anyway.

 

During the September 11 attacks of 2001, 2,977 people died. Why did the Americans make such a problem of that? I am sure some of them were also over 70 years old. It's not *that* bad in terms of years of life lost.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by dimitriv

[Kinnock]

The real question is why are people surprised about the death rate in a country with a large elderly population, high levels of obesity, incompetent government, a legacy of under investment in the health services and a selfish culture that rejects the use of masks to protect others?

 

It happens every time there's a flu epidemic too - but there's no news in old diseases.

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

10 hours ago, dimitriv said:

Quote:

 

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

 

 

Expand  

 

I've seen that as well, but what does it mean?

 

Deaths are deaths, my understanding of that note is that COVID deaths are included in the figures and not separated.

 

 

It says Covid deaths are NOT included.

And a projection is an estimate.

So these numbers are useless. Unless someone wants to prove something and is looking for some statistics to support a conspiracy theory.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by dimitriv

[Kiujunn]

2 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Because the UK government decided to send COVID-19 positive old people into nursing homes and as a result it spread and killed thousands. 
They wanted to keep the beds free for young people, who generally only have mild symptoms. 
 

Harsh.

 

Plus the doctors and nurses didn’t have suitable protective clothing. So they caught it and spread it to thousands of others.

 

Similarly, in Sweden old people deliberately didn't receive care if they caught covid. 

Many posters on TVF have said  "just let the old die".

 

Asians have a different attitude towards their parents and grandparents.

When the Chinese government pointed this out towards the French, it caused a diplomatic uproar. 

 

Funnily,  most Westerners consider the 4th commandment part of Western culture.

 

 

[polpott]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

No, it is very true. 

it is also true that the U.K. didn’t test enough. 
So the truenumber of infected people hasn’t been revealed. It is much higher than the official figures. That is part of the reason the death rate to infection rate in the U.K. is so high compared to nearly every other country. 
 

They are about to get smashed again. One balls up after another really. Didn’t lock down fast enough, wanted to “take it on the chin” , the testing balls up, tracing balls up, no protective clothing balls up, they advised people not to wear masks balls up, opened up too early balls up, etc etc

 

The UK did everything wrong, and the high deaths are the result. 

 

But the biggest balls up was the sending of covid infected people into nursing homes. It will be a sad xmas for many families this year. 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-how-elderly-paid-price-of-protecting-nhs-from-covid-19-7n62kkbtb

have you got a shred of evidence for this nonsence? The care home issue was a faux pas but one that many countries made, see another posters comments about the same issue in Sweden.

[huangnon]

Quote

Why does the UK suffer such huge death rates from Covid?

 

Because no one has died from old age or any other natural cause, since March.?

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, Kiujunn said:

Many posters on TVF have said  "just let the old die".

That would wipe out 80% of this forum.

[Fairynuff]

Two reasons for the UK suffering so badly. Firstly a totally incompetent government that has failed on literally everything from PPE to testing whilst handing out hugely lucrative contracts to all its mates. £12b on an app that doesn’t work ?

Secondly a general public that thinks wearing a mask is an infringement of their right to spread a deadly virus to everyone, and who also see half the government and their advisers breaking every rule because rules don’t apply to the government.

[Emdog]

Mushy peas. That's my view and I'm sticking to it.

[rupert the bear]

the uk has a high %age of older people as its a successful western democracy and the method of counting the victims,anyone whos died in the last 28 days that tested pos for the virus is a covid death.very strange.the cause of death could be of many things.the figs can be padded to fit the agenda using this methodology.

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, rupert the bear said:

the uk has a high %age of older people as its a successful western democracy and the method of counting the victims,anyone whos died in the last 28 days that tested pos for the virus is a covid death.very strange.the cause of death could be of many things.the figs can be padded to fit the agenda using this methodology.

Most countries tend to play down the numbers not pad them. Why on earth would they pad them?

[JusticeGB]

In the early stages of reporting deaths if an elderly person who had covid19 say 28 days before death and later died of heart failure the cause of death was put down to covid19 and not heart failure. Those early deaths rates have not been changed to reflect the true cause of death. Thus the covid19 death rate in the UK is overstated. 

[KhaoNiaw]

14 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

In the early stages of reporting deaths if an elderly person who had covid19 say 28 days before death and later died of heart failure the cause of death was put down to covid19 and not heart failure. Those early deaths rates have not been changed to reflect the true cause of death. Thus the covid19 death rate in the UK is overstated. 

What caused the heart failure?
Doctors are meant to record all contributory factors and conditions. Whether they do or not is up to their own thoroughness.

[JusticeGB]

2 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

What caused the heart failure?
Doctors are meant to record all contributory factors and conditions. Whether they do or not is up to their own thoroughness.

When old people die there are a lot of contributing factors. Someone who has asthma is more likely to get covid19 but the covid19 condition might weaken the immune system but if someone has a heart attack then the primary cause of death is not covid19 but the heart attack. 

[gamini]

poor diet(Fast food) through the but it might your what you want is nothing while you yard I do usuallyg what you are right about so so I have a 70 my I know you that there was the subject you ares more I have some more

[gamini]

Poor diet, obesity, humid cold weather, poor ventilation in public places and homes

[Patts]

16 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

While I agree that the UK's  mortality rate during the first wave was terrible at approximately 14% we are not the worst. 

 

The UK's mortality rate for the second wave is much better with reported deaths well below 1% of confirmed cases on most days so please don't spread misinformation. 

 

[jesimps]

That's an easy one, it's because we let in every Tom, Dick and Harry. Including our untested friends who come on rubber boats from across the channel.

[Nurseynutcase]

Can I add my 'pennorth' to this debate?

 

At one point earlier in the year the death rate of people from black and ethnic minorities in the UK was a greater percentage of total deaths than the percentage of the BAME population as a whole.

 

Now I don't know if anyone has looked at this but as Covid 19 affects the lungs and people of Afro-Carribean descent have a smaller lung capacity than caucasians.  Polynesians have a larger lung capacity than caucasians so I do wonder if this could be a contributing factor?

 

Add in the number of people who are obese, diabetes, heart disease etc, and a general aging population you can see the numbers can be skewed.

 

As for the UK's stats I don't think that just because someone tested positive in the previous 28 but died in a car accident, heart attack etc they should be included as a covid death.  This has, I know been discussed before.

 

If anyone believes the Chinese figures IMHO they are living in cloud cukoo land.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

poor diet(Fast food) through the but it might your what you want is nothing while you yard I do usuallyg what you are right about so so I have a 70 my I know you that there was the subject you ares more I have some more

Can you repeat that so it makes sense please.

[chilly07]

Because there is an idiot in charge whose strings are pulled by an evil <deleted> who is peddling herd immunity. Simple. Bit like the USA!

[Patts]

4 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Because there is an idiot in charge whose strings are pulled by an evil <deleted> who is peddling herd immunity. Simple. Bit like the USA!

Oh hear we go starting the conspiracy nonsense again. The government are not going for herd immunity which has never been proven to work especially on a virus that mutates or has been indicated in recent news there is a sharp decline in antibodies after 3 months of those who have already been infected. 

[Patts]

6 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

No, it is very true. 

it is also true that the U.K. didn’t test enough. 
So the truenumber of infected people hasn’t been revealed. It is much higher than the official figures. That is part of the reason the death rate to infection rate in the U.K. is so high compared to nearly every other country. 

You are talking utter nonsense. Testing increased at an incredible rate considering no one knew what to expect and we have had one of the highest number of tests per million for the past 4 months or so. In fact the only countries that have done more tests per million are those with very small populations of less than 10 million people!

 

The UK's infection rate is 39rd in the world per million, so nowhere near the worst, might want to check your facts before spreading lies.

 

Deaths per 1 million population:

 

[spidermike007]

I would suspect alot of it has to do with a horrible diet. Very unhealthy. Same with the US. Nearly as bad in Latin America.