Expenses in Issan?

[CM Dad]

Between 30,000 - 40,000 per month is more than enough, especially if not paying rent, as long as you are not the ATM for the extended family.  If you are, then don't move there.  Helping family occasionally when needed is one thing, but supporting them should be avoided.

[Yom]

You have asked 'Expenses in Issan?'  -  Very good information already.

I would suggest to consider the climate and especially the air pollution too.

These days the numbers in Isan are ~ ok, green, yellow, orange.

But this could/will change very fast.

 

https://aqicn.org/

 

Very interesting some historical data. As example any station up north between November 2019 and April 2020.

 

 

 

[Boomer6969]

Slightly off topic. But I am having a long overdue one week holiday up North in Chiang Rai, and if I wasn't committed, as I am, to where I live now, I'd establish myself there without hesitation. Small quiet place with everything a healthy Farang retiree could dream of.

[Scott Tracy]

On 11/20/2020 at 7:12 AM, EVENKEEL said:

There's no rule that says you must live on her land. For extended happiness, live far away from her family and she can visit them.

 

I wish we had done that. Near to a river or lake in or near a city as far away from her family as possible.

 

So much strife. Family spats. Family 'borrowing' things. Can you take me here, can you take me there. Village taxi to hospitals and cousin's and aunts and uncle's funerals.

[Scott Tracy]

Also, beware... Notorious for gambling, be careful when the borders open again. Casinos are on the Cambodian side of the checkpoint. ID card only for Thais, passport and visa for others.

[Ireland32]

On 11/20/2020 at 7:12 AM, EVENKEEL said:

There's no rule that says you must live on her land. For extended happiness, live far away from her family and she can visit them.

2 hour rule works great , I made mine 5 hours Perfect 

[khunPer]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:27 AM, Chandler said:

Curious, close to the Cambodia border within reason.  Building a home on wife's land.  What are building costs like?  For say a decent 3 bedroom home with AC and hot water.  Decent living room and kitchen?   Also, is there a general consensus on the cost of living in that area?  Decent life style, nothing crazy.  Money to party or travel a little when you want to, but not really doing on regular basis....  Maybe leaving room for 1 or 2 children?   Probably 1 car/truck  and a motorbike.  Relaxed lifestyle...  I'm not sure if there is much difference in the schooling from Thai schools to private schools.  Any input on helping to figure this out would be appreciated.

Building costs

Experience from Surin, just about a real estate agent's (mega looong) stone throw from the border, foreign friends counted about 2 million baht a few years back for a decent 3-bed house with kind of Western-style fittings – i.e. kitchen and bathrooms – excluding land. Probably about same level today, if you can control the construction process. You might be quoted price for the work only – which can be a quite low price – and buying all materials yourself, which is a benefit, as you know what goes into the house, and you have full control over the expenses; it however requires that you are there during the construction, or someone else in control of buying and finance with enough knowledge/experience.

 

Living costs

–today might not be that different in various locations, due to chain stores have expanded all over. and are competing. Some local village products might however be little cheaper; whilst not local produced stuff, but bought from a local not-in-a-chain store, might be little higher priced in a village.

 

Life-style costs is a rubber band and very individual. I'm not living in Isaan , but probably not that different in living costs, I would count 15,000 baht a month for food etc. (i.e. 500 baht/day); depending of age and condition between 3,000 baht and 5,000 baht a month for one health insurance for a foreigner; 600-1,000 baht a month for Internet; around 400 baht a month for one mobile phone subscription (with data); and at least 5,000 baht a month for other household expenses, including modest electrical use. Count minimum between 25k baht and 30k baht a month (not including child/children). The 40k baht a month set by the government for extension of stay based on marriage, is not at all way out for a "normal" modest life-style.

 

Include in living costs budget that you set aside an easily available amount in cash for emergency and unforeseen, preferably top it up every month with a small amount. It's relative compared to income and/or savings, but even small regular money set-aside, can be big money in a rainy day.

 

Amusement, party and travel money

–is even more rubber band than living costs. If me, I would count not less than 30k baht a year. Dining out for two can be anything from a few hundred baht to around 15,000 baht in a gourmet restaurant – I still recall the 50% low season discount quote I saw from a local 5-star resort for an only 16,500 baht candlelight-dinner for two, but for that price house red-wine was included – later partying can, again depending of where, cost from a few hundred baht to several thousand. And how are you expect to be travelling, and in what level of accommodation?

 

Child/Children and school

Again rubber band, which can be stretched extremely long. I know from other posters living in Isaan that costs for raising child in a public school can be very modest, and English language skills can be learned from home, especially if a parent is native English speaker.

 

I have a Luk khrueng (Thai: ลูกครึ่ง, literally "half child"), and I counted from the beginning that this adventure would cost me 5 million baht – not that different from the typical calculation in my home country, which says 1 million Danish kroner in expenses, when using public schools and having a normal support from the government – and it has shown to be just about right. Having two children would however often be less than double costs.

 

Now that 5 million needs a bit of explanation. There might be huge difference in Isaan schools, some village schools might still not be up to an education level, where you can expect a child to move on to higher education, or studying abroad. So you might consider private schools.

 

Using a government school, you shall count extra for uniform, food and transport, and it's also common that the kids get some daily pocket money for buying something in the school shop, or from vendors outside the school; furthermore there might be an excursion on extra cost. Count between 10,000 baht to perhaps up to 20,000 baht a year. Furthermore children might be offered extra tuition(s) for a fee, which is quite common in Thailand.

 

Private schools are available in almost all kind of levels, but of course depending of local availability. A choice might be a so-called Bi-lingual, or English Program shortened EP,  school. The lowest priced that I know of costs around 30k baht a year – typically 10% discount for 2nd child, which is general for all private schools – plus uniform, books, transport and other extras. As often, you get what you pay for, so the English-language teachers might be not be native English-speakers. A higher end private EP school would be around 125k baht a year, plus all the extras, with tuition after Cambridge level, but not including a Cambridge certificate. All private schools will also follow the normal Thai curriculum – which is very good to include, if the child is expected to have a future in Thailand – even it might sometimes seem a bit odd looked at through Western tinted glasses, but that's how it is.

 

The Thai school year runs from early May to mid March. Kids are starting early, a private school can have 3 kindergarten level, i.e. K1 to K3, where K3 equals internationally Y1 (year one). Then follows 6 primary levels, i.e. P1 to P6, equaling Y2 to Y7. Thereafter 6 years middle and high school, i.e. M1 to M6.

 

Often will Thais that can afford it send their children to a private school from M1-level, eventually a bording school. Some of those schools can be quite expensive, but are considered as gateway to a University or a career, boys might be send to a military school.

 

International schools, following "normal" tuition year September-July, are available from Kindergarten level and all way up, however in some areas they might stop at Cambridge IGSCE-certificate level, i.e. Y11. For an international school you should count from around 250,000 baht a year, plus all the extras, and up to the area of a million baht a year for some; often the price would be in the level 400k baht a year. I would, based on my experience, recommend EP school for K1-K3 and P1-P6, and then change to international from Y8 (an extended summer holiday from mid March to about September 1st). You might not need a Cambridge-certificate, or similar, at Y7 level – it's the certificate that is expensive – whilst the Cambridge IGCSE-certificate after Y11 is of great value, and gateway for further education, or continuing with IB and university.

So this brings me back to my 5 million baht calculation. Nursery 1 or 2 years at about 30k baht a year = 60k baht. EP-school fees from K1 to P6 are 9 years x average 150k baht = 1.35 million. 4 years international up to IGCSE-level is 4 year x 250k baht = 1 million baht, or more. Two further years would be another 600k baht, or more. Food and other expenses for raising a child would average be 5k baht a month in 240 months (12 x 20) equaling 1.2 million baht. So about 4.2 million plus birthday and Christmas gifts, travelling and outings, teenager costs (????), and other extras, or first few university fees, might add up to 40k baht a year calculated in average. Of course it can be done much cheaper – still with excellent parenthood and result – and at a much higer price with the most expensive schools all the way up.

 

Car/motorbike

A new small car would cost around 500k baht, a 2WD pick-up begins around same level. Second hand cars are often high priced, as repairs are reasonable cheap due to labor cost, so it worth considering buying a new car with full warranty, and also a relative high resale value. Annual 1st-class insurance and tax will be around 20k baht, insurance cost is decreasing a bit as a car is aging (less value).

 

A new small motorbike/scooter would typically be around 50k baht, and annual mandatory insurance and tax a few hundred baht. Be aware of that the mandatory insurance is worth next-to-nothing, and many personal accident insurances have limited cover, or even no cover, for motorbike accidents. Most people however only have the mandatory insurance, as 1st class full cover might be relative very expensive.

 

Feel free to ask questions. I wish you good luck with your plans...????

[khunPer]

On 11/20/2020 at 1:04 AM, Chandler said:

well,  now I can narrow down my stuff 555   Just general costs like i said nothing crazy.

That the modest costs – depending of location and modesty – crazy stuff would be in millions a month...

[Bigstef]

Just because you don't know the region you should rent at least the first year or 2, then you'll know more about the family and the region and maybe find a perfect spot for your family maybe your wife land, good luck 

[SiSePuede419]

You forgot to mention your income source.  Obviously, it's not from working. ????

[ThaiFelix]

Cost of living expenses in Isaan is usually directly proportional tp the size of the wifes gambling addiction....I kid you not.  Not all but a lot are gamblers and the wife of a farang is expected to have a lot more to gamble otherwise why would you have a farang husband?  Fortunately my wife sees the depths of debt some of the farang wives around here get into and avoid it like the plague.

 

Off topic but a sad/funny story is an American came to town a few years back and built a mansion in our village as well as some plots of farm land scattered outside the village.  He only comes here twice a year and always gets the tour of his holdings.  No one has the heart to tell him his wife sold all the farm land 2 years ago to pay off her gambling debts!  Not long he will retire and move here permanently when I guess the tours will suddenly stop and he will discover that those nice people working on his wifes land are not relatives come to help out but the actual owners!!

[Kadilo]

3 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Cost of living expenses in Isaan is usually directly proportional tp the size of the wifes gambling addiction....

Tosh

[thailandbeachisland]

4 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Fortunately my wife sees the depths of debt some of the farang wives around here get into and avoid it like the plague.

yes your wife is Esaan but clearly better than others ! How lucky you are ! maybe she also has a master degree in law, right ?

 

????

 

????

 

????

 

 

[Kadilo]

55 minutes ago, thailandbeachisland said:

yes your wife is Esaan but clearly better than others ! How lucky you are ! maybe she also has a master degree in law, right ?

 

????

 

????

 

????

 

 

It’s always other people’s ferang wives that they know. Cliche after cliche. 

[AlexRich]

10 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Slightly off topic. But I am having a long overdue one week holiday up North in Chiang Rai, and if I wasn't committed, as I am, to where I live now, I'd establish myself there without hesitation. Small quiet place with everything a healthy Farang retiree could dream of.

I would agree with you about it being a great place, but you forgot to mention the pollution, which lasts months. And that’s why, even though I really like the place, I could never live there full time.

[Andycoops]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:54 AM, Chandler said:

any idea what cost of raising children are?  general costs I'm referring to.

 

Cost when kids are at a local school are minimal but University is another matter.

I pay 45000 a year in semester fees for my son and 12000 for my daughter who is at a vocational college.

Then you have room rent which is 7000 a month between them and living expenses 5000 each and incidentals like uniforms etc.

Each has their own scooter so that's another 100000/120000 depending on model.

[4MyEgo]

On 11/20/2020 at 11:25 AM, Chandler said:

30K Thb a month is fair there?

 

We have 4 kids, 2 go to a Catholic school which is private, not talking one of those international private schools, the other 2 go to government high school.

 

House to build 2 mil, 320 square metres, 6 beds, 3 baths, good quality, local builder. New pickup 800k, I budget on 70,000 a month which includes private emergency health insurance coverage for all.

 

We live comfortably, not over the top, if you want a domestic holiday or international holiday add to that, but at 70,000 baht per month, the budget comes in spot on every year, give or take 10,000/20,000 baht.

[4MyEgo]

On 11/21/2020 at 12:00 PM, Toscano said:

I would advise renting , if things turn sour you can pack your bags and leave . 

Alternatively only invest as much as your prepared to lose, generally speaking 10% of one's worth.

 

Been with my loving wife for 14 years, 2 kids with her, we have a great relationship and things have never been better in life, but as humans we can change at a moment, so if the s-hit ever hit the fan, at least the kids would have a place over their heads as opposed to renting, but I did not build till we moved here 5 years ago, that gave me more than enough time to know who she was, even though I knew that the first night I met her in a bar ????

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

On 11/20/2020 at 1:04 AM, Chandler said:

well,  now I can narrow down my stuff 555   Just general costs like i said nothing crazy.

You know? I have a great advice for you. Why don´t you come and stay in Thailand for a year with your wife? Why not buy a motorbike? Ask price for house and car! Pay for everything on a monthly basis during that year. After that you will have all the facts, including if it is the right choice for you.

If you already done all this, why in the world are you asking about it?

[wolf81]

22 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Slightly off topic. But I am having a long overdue one week holiday up North in Chiang Rai, and if I wasn't committed, as I am, to where I live now, I'd establish myself there without hesitation. Small quiet place with everything a healthy Farang retiree could dream of.

You wouldn't enjoy the burning season up here. Just for the burning season it's not a great place to stay year round in the north.

[rickudon]

Before i moved to Udon, i worked out my budget and decided i coulld live on 30,000 baht a month with my wife.. Never happened.  Minimum spend is 35,000 baht, and then all the unplanned extras ..... some months spend 50,000 baht.

Monthly outgoings .....

 

Mortgage -      3,000 baht

Electric  -          2.500 baht

Water  -             1500 baht (MIL uses a lot!)

Gas   -                  400 baht

Internet -             850 baht

funeral plans -   1200 baht (for the inlaws)

Phone x 2       -     600 baht

fuel for car     -   2000 baht    (school run twice a day)

car loan          -   6500 baht  

Car insurance -  1000 baht

school costs   -  3500 baht  (fees, books, uniform, food at                                                               school)

 Shopping -          5000 baht   (food, cleaning materials)

 

 

So 28,500 baht every month ..... without fail. Then add on cost of rice harvesting, car tax and mot, immigration extension, repairs, replacements (so much stuff just doesn't last), pocket money for self and wife,  so actual between 35,000 and xx,000!

 

Note - i haven't mentioned booze, holidays or health insurance. little money left for those .....

 

Two relatives have/are building houses next door - modest affairs, 2 small bedrooms, but well over one million baht each. That is the house. Landfill, landscaping, perimeter walls, gates etc. extra.

 

What ever you think you need, double it. Also that is incase of currency fluctuations and unplanned events (like children!).

 

Oh, and have an exit plan .......

[Yom]

17 hours ago, rickudon said:

What ever you think you need, double it.

 

17 hours ago, rickudon said:

Oh, and have an exit plan .......

 

Nothing to add.

[Chandler]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:44 PM, MikeN said:

Well that depends on your lifestyle but, as an indicator, earlier this year during peak COVID here when travel was restricted and many places shut the wife and I lived comfortably on around 20,000 in rural Ubon. Even in May when I did my visa extension with associated costs I only took 25k out of the bank. And that was not just surviving on MaMa noodles and water ! 

If you live close to one of the bigger cities and cannot abstain from restaurant cooked farang food, and drinking at farang bars, then your costs will be higher than if you eat Thai or home cooked farang food, drinking with the family at home.

 And then you have the annual variable costs, such as health and car insurance.....what level of cover do you need ? Travel costs are up to you ...luxury resort on an island or something more budget minded ?

Thanks!   Im more then fine eating Thai 90% of the time and can cook farang as needed.  Good to know about expenses.  Im feeling that I should be about 75k a month roughly. for available expenses.  sounds like that should be sufficient for wife and a child or 2 maybe.

[Chandler]

On 11/20/2020 at 11:05 PM, Isaan sailor said:

Recommend A-quality wood doors for outside and inside.  Cheap wood doors don’t last, and not as secure.  Also, if you can afford marble (stone) flooring, looks great and much cooler on your feet—with or without A.C.

And get yourself a pre-nup, or a renewable lease on the land.

good advice thanks!

 

[Chandler]

On 11/21/2020 at 2:46 AM, Boomer6969 said:

Slightly off topic. But I am having a long overdue one week holiday up North in Chiang Rai, and if I wasn't committed, as I am, to where I live now, I'd establish myself there without hesitation. Small quiet place with everything a healthy Farang retiree could dream of.

Just might be hard to move the gf/wife away from family lol.  I was considering an island home however she made it clear she would rather travel to there for vacation, while living close to family

 

[Chandler]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:45 AM, SiSePuede419 said:

You forgot to mention your income source.  Obviously, it's not from working. ????

Would be Pension income 

[Chandler]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:58 PM, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

You know? I have a great advice for you. Why don´t you come and stay in Thailand for a year with your wife? Why not buy a motorbike? Ask price for house and car! Pay for everything on a monthly basis during that year. After that you will have all the facts, including if it is the right choice for you.

If you already done all this, why in the world are you asking about it?

I havent done that.  I have lived there for usually 3 or 4 months.  over the course of several years.  but thats BKK area pricing and more tourist style lifesyles, and using public transit etc.  I wouldnt be able to do that until I retire, therefore fact finding mission to establish baseline costs and median costs to weigh out the reality of Cost of living in that region. 

 

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

9 hours ago, Chandler said:

I havent done that.  I have lived there for usually 3 or 4 months.  over the course of several years.  but thats BKK area pricing and more tourist style lifesyles, and using public transit etc.  I wouldnt be able to do that until I retire, therefore fact finding mission to establish baseline costs and median costs to weigh out the reality of Cost of living in that region. 

 

Ok, I understand. I will go roughly over the whole thing. As I live in Isaan myself with a wife and two kids, I have a decent perspektive on all of this.

First we take the house. Depending on the area and how close to a city as well as the size of the city, building a house with the size you take as an example will included with land start at 1-1,2 million baht up to whatever you want. I would say the middle region is between 2-3 million baht.

 

If you want a motorbike of regular type 125 cc or 150 cc you will by that cash for between 40 000 to 80 000 baht each depending on how many you need.

 

A car goes for between 300 000 and up for decent second hand. For a new decent car the price depends on brand, but let´s say about 1-1,3 million baht for a Toyota Fortuner, or a starting price at 600 000 - 700 000 baht for a general faily good car.

 

After that we have the children. Here they usually start school at the age of 3.

 

Price for kindergarten in private school can start at 10 000 baht per term compared to all from free school to a couple of thousands per term for government school.

Year 1-6 in primary school will be about 15 000 term in private and around 3 000 - 5 000 per term in government school.

 

After that the price will wary very much out of your choice of school and can be all from 10 000 per term and up to whatever you wish to put out on education for your children.

 

Regarding the quality I prefer private school after testing the first 2 years in government school for my children.

 

if you do not live in or fairly close to one of the middle sized or bigger cities in Isaan, there will not be much of a place for entertainment. You will find places to take a beer without problem as well as restaurants and karaoke. In the middle sized and bigger cities there is normally quite a lot of entertainment. I spend about 5 000 - 15 000 baht per month on that depending on my mood.

 

Regular expensies as phone, TV, electric and water for a person that utilize aircon on a regular basis would be about 5 000 - 8 000 per month.

 

After that you will have the part of life that includes food. Depending on what you eat price will vary. I eat a maxed variety of let´s say 50/50 of Thai and International food. It usually lands on 12 000 baht per month.

 

On top of all this you will have insurances, your wife, clothes and hygien to pay up for. If you also engage in regular travel like you mentioned, that will also be an extra expense. We do that as well, and every time it seems to be at least 20k for the whole family during only a weekend.

 

I hope that will put you well place as a quarterback, with great knowledge of the ballpark you wish to play in. ????

 

As you certainly already are aware of there will also be visa expensies. Even if they do not take your money you will have to be able to show 800 000 in a Thai bank or 65 000 per month for retirement. If you go the marriage route the same will be 400 000 or 40 000 per month. Your true yearly expensies for that will be 1900 for extension. If you wish to travel out and in of the country during that time a multiple entry document will be needed for a yearly price of 3 800 baht.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Dagfinnur Traustason

[Yom]

14 hours ago, Chandler said:

Just might be hard to move the gf/wife away from family lol.

Try harder.

[Chandler]

6 hours ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

Ok, I understand. I will go roughly over the whole thing. As I live in Isaan myself with a wife and two kids, I have a decent perspektive on all of this.

First we take the house. Depending on the area and how close to a city as well as the size of the city, building a house with the size you take as an example will included with land start at 1-1,2 million baht up to whatever you want. I would say the middle region is between 2-3 million baht.

 

If you want a motorbike of regular type 125 cc or 150 cc you will by that cash for between 40 000 to 80 000 baht each depending on how many you need.

 

A car goes for between 300 000 and up for decent second hand. For a new decent car the price depends on brand, but let´s say about 1-1,3 million baht for a Toyota Fortuner, or a starting price at 600 000 - 700 000 baht for a general faily good car.

 

After that we have the children. Here they usually start school at the age of 3.

 

Price for kindergarten in private school can start at 10 000 baht per term compared to all from free school to a couple of thousands per term for government school.

Year 1-6 in primary school will be about 15 000 term in private and around 3 000 - 5 000 per term in government school.

 

After that the price will wary very much out of your choice of school and can be all from 10 000 per term and up to whatever you wish to put out on education for your children.

 

Regarding the quality I prefer private school after testing the first 2 years in government school for my children.

 

if you do not live in or fairly close to one of the middle sized or bigger cities in Isaan, there will not be much of a place for entertainment. You will find places to take a beer without problem as well as restaurants and karaoke. In the middle sized and bigger cities there is normally quite a lot of entertainment. I spend about 5 000 - 15 000 baht per month on that depending on my mood.

 

Regular expensies as phone, TV, electric and water for a person that utilize aircon on a regular basis would be about 5 000 - 8 000 per month.

 

After that you will have the part of life that includes food. Depending on what you eat price will vary. I eat a maxed variety of let´s say 50/50 of Thai and International food. It usually lands on 12 000 baht per month.

 

On top of all this you will have insurances, your wife, clothes and hygien to pay up for. If you also engage in regular travel like you mentioned, that will also be an extra expense. We do that as well, and every time it seems to be at least 20k for the whole family during only a weekend.

 

I hope that will put you well place as a quarterback, with great knowledge of the ballpark you wish to play in. ????

 

As you certainly already are aware of there will also be visa expensies. Even if they do not take your money you will have to be able to show 800 000 in a Thai bank or 65 000 per month for retirement. If you go the marriage route the same will be 400 000 or 40 000 per month. Your true yearly expensies for that will be 1900 for extension. If you wish to travel out and in of the country during that time a multiple entry document will be needed for a yearly price of 3 800 baht.

 

Thank you for the detailed reply  I very mucvh appreciate it.  there has been alot of helpful people here.