No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19

[FarFlungFalang]

8 hours ago, lkv said:

 

There are hundreds of reinfections worldwide, suggesting immunity could last as little as 3 months in some. Longer in others, perhaps up to 12 months. I guess time will tell as we go along. 

 

===quote from link below

The Netherlands alone has 50 such cases, Brazil 95, Sweden 150, Mexico 285, and Qatar at least 243

====

 

And this is on a very tight protocol of considering what is defined as reinfection. So in reality, likely many more.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/more-people-are-getting-covid-19-twice-suggesting-immunity-wanes-quickly-some

All these links are news articles that say suspected reinfections not confirmed reinfections.

[elgenon]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19
The Thaiger
 

OPINION

 

 

With the announcements this week about several vaccine candidate trials, either being completed or at the end of their Phase 3 testings, and the applications to government bodies for ‘emergency approval’, we now have to face the next question.

 

What restrictions will be imposed on those people who don’t have the vaccine, or even actively choose not to have the vaccine?

And more locally…

 

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Given the Thai Government’s low-risk strategy, well almost zero-risk strategy, and reluctance to take any chances with a second wave of Covid 19, it is highly likely there will be a stipulation that anyone entering Thailand will need a vaccine certificate or stamp in their passports.

Couple this with the Thai population’s continued fear of allowing foreigners back into the country at this time, in poll after poll, and it’s a safe bet there will be a “no vaccine, no entry” restriction imposed.

 

On a positive note, the Thai government may drop the 14 day quarantine for people that have had the vaccine (but not in the early days).

 

At this stage we know that most of the vaccine trials have had a 95% efficacy. We also know that the leading BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine needs an original jab plus a booster and has to be transported at extremely low temperature.

To complicate matters, there is not yet sufficient evidence that having had a bout of Covid-19, whether asymptomatic or not, guarantees you immunity. Or, if it does, for how long?

 

All these factors will mean that some level of quarantine will probably be in force as the Thai government slowly re-opens its borders to a wider groups of vaccinated travellers. This would remain in force until the world has a better knowledge of both the proven efficacy of the vaccine, or vaccines, and the re-infection rates.

 

So, even if we start getting groups of the world’s populations vaccinated before the end of the year, and that’s still a very big IF, there’s a lot more water to pass under the bridge until a coherent, reliable vaccine strategy can be understood and implemented.

 

Then there will be a rump of people, either hard core anti-vaxxers, or others who are at least skeptical of a new vaccine, who will want to wait or not want the vaccine at all. Public education, some strong science and a successful roll out of the early vaccines will be a key to winning over a lot of the world’s population.

 

Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality, it’s going to be one of the greatest public health challenges of all time, to reassure people about the science of vaccines and vaccination.

 

All this, in the middle of a pandemic that, for now, is still on the ascendency as far as new cases and deaths are concerned.

 

But there is little doubt rejoining the world of international travel, even local travel, could become restricted to only those who are vaccinated. The rest will be stuck roaming around their own countries, or states, for… years with a raft of restrictions on their lives. Who knows.

 

Will shopping centres or public buildings also impose a “no vaccine, no entry” policy? Hotels? Public buildings? Job applications?

 

On top of the economic stress which has fallen on a lot of the world, with so many governments now facing the headwinds of deep recession, the vaccine ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ will add even more public disquiet.

 

At this stage nobody is sure how the vaccine will be rolled out in Thailand. The Thai government has already signed up for several of the leading vaccine candidates and will most likely provide the vaccine for free to citizens under its public health system.

 

What does that mean for foreigners living here? If you are covered, with a work permit, under the country’s public health, are you able to get the vaccine for free too? Will the thousands of foreigners on private health insurance be covered?

 

Surely the insurers will want its customers to be vaccinated. Sick customers cost them money. So, will insurance renewals be limited to only people who have been vaccinated? Will visas be renewed only if you have been vaccinated?

 

At this stage there are no firm answers to any of these questions.

 

And then there is the SARS Cov2 virus (Covid-19) itself, a living virus which has the ability to mutate and adapt. Will these new vaccines be effective against all mutations? Again, this is all ahead of us.

 

We’re certainly now entering a new phase of this pandemic. New challenges, new questions. The rising numbers of cases throughout 2020 is only the first chapter of a book that will be many more years in the making.

 

Source: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/no-vaccine-no-entry-the-next-challenge-of-covid-19

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2020-11-24

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

The question I have is: Does Thailand have the infrastructure to administer vaccines that need to be super cold? Issan too ?

[CharlieH]

Reported and troll/bickering posts removed.

 

 

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

It’s looking likely that airlines may demand proof of vaccination. Qantas has already stated such 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8a59043d-df0d-45c1-b870-2780f06c5d1e

 

FT report May be required. In the Thaiger report Will be required. All speculation.

Edited November 25, 2020 by brianthainess

[sezze]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

May being the operative word.

Well yes , because it isn't that easy since many airlines are in service right now but on low level . For Qantas it is easier since i think not much is flying , and Australian borders are pretty well shut down ( correct ?) . But during next 6 months or 1y , many people may want , but cannot have vaccine yet . I'd say , just wait , on what gets approved , whats available and how fast , because all that would make or break this regulation . But as far as i see it , rules aren't going anywhere as long as you aren't vaccinated . How can you say , skip rules now , while only 2 people got their vaccines , you just can't . it would open the gates which you wanted to keep closed before . A vaccine isnt a medicine , a vaccine prevents you to get sick , or if you get sick , in a less severe manner . when only a few got the vaccine , it will protect them , but nothing more . If many are vaccinated you create herd immunity , in which way , all down to the test results , and real life results who will be there , but we just have to wait a little while longer . We almost there , we done this for 9 months , we can wait for 3-4 months more as long as the finish is in sight .

[Stoker58]

“Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality.....”

.

What a massively one sided article! Vaccines are dangerous things, even more so for older people and children, and should not be forced on anyone against their will.

[Thorgal]

15 minutes ago, sezze said:

Well yes , because it isn't that easy since many airlines are in service right now but on low level . For Qantas it is easier since i think not much is flying , and Australian borders are pretty well shut down ( correct ?) . But during next 6 months or 1y , many people may want , but cannot have vaccine yet . I'd say , just wait , on what gets approved , whats available and how fast , because all that would make or break this regulation . But as far as i see it , rules aren't going anywhere as long as you aren't vaccinated . How can you say , skip rules now , while only 2 people got their vaccines , you just can't . it would open the gates which you wanted to keep closed before . A vaccine isnt a medicine , a vaccine prevents you to get sick , or if you get sick , in a less severe manner . when only a few got the vaccine , it will protect them , but nothing more . If many are vaccinated you create herd immunity , in which way , all down to the test results , and real life results who will be there , but we just have to wait a little while longer . We almost there , we done this for 9 months , we can wait for 3-4 months more as long as the finish is in sight .

 

There’s no guarantee that your vaccine will be effective for mutations/variations of the virus.

[Henryford]

Well at least in Thailand you can pay to get a fake vaccination certificate.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, sezze said:

It has been said long time ago , and it makes sense doesn't it . If you want to fly , you need the vaccine . This way , everybody on that plane is vaccinated and all special measures can be out . Also , when arriving , you do not need quarantine , since all people arriving got that vaccine .

Anti vaxxers can do what they want , but they are staying home , or maybe come by land/sea and stay 2 weeks in quarantine with all measures as they are now . I expect news from the airline industry fast , like Qantas did already , and from many countries also , as soon as the 1st approvals are done . Now is too soon , since none of the vaccines is approved for use yet , can't say anything now , which might go belly up in next couple of weeks ( which i do not expect since 1st 3 candidates all say they got a working safe vaccine ... would surprise me if not 2 out of 3 make it at least ) .

"Also , when arriving , you do not need quarantine".  Do you really think that this unelected soldiers "government" is going to stop the quarantine as soon as the vaccine is available?

They will keep it going as long as possible as it is a big moneymaker for too many people, the hotels. the hospitals, the over the top charge of  testing, and not to forget the unelected "PM" and his "government".

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Obviously it's nice to get a vaccine shot for free. But personally I would pay a few thousand baht to get that shot if necessary. That one time investment is a lot better than running the risk of being infected.

For gods sake. don't give them any ideas by saying you would pay a few thousand baht, you don't know who's reading this.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

For gods sake. don't give them any ideas by saying you would pay a few thousand baht, you don't know who's reading this.

Sure. Next Prayut will be seen on television: "I read on Thai Visa from one more farang that..."

555

[scorecard]

53 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

FT report May be required. In the Thaiger report Will be required. All speculation.

Of course, right now so many balls in the air and it will probably be a few weeks before there are any clear answers, and that's across several countries.

 

From reading many reports/comments it seems the the WHO and other organizations and many governments are trying right now to decide some clear rules about who gets the vaccine by priorities and when and policies/rules per country about checking personal vaccine status on exit and entry.

 

We wait and see.

 

 

[Hoppyone]

23 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

It’s looking likely that airlines may demand proof of vaccination. Qantas has already stated such 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8a59043d-df0d-45c1-b870-2780f06c5d1e

 

 I would suggest a bit premature to be stating the obvious,let’s get it vaccine out there to start with

23 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

It’s looking likely that airlines may demand proof of vaccination. Qantas has already stated such 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8a59043d-df0d-45c1-b870-2780f06c5d1e

 

 

[chainarong]

23 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

It’s looking likely that airlines may demand proof of vaccination. Qantas has already stated such 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8a59043d-df0d-45c1-b870-2780f06c5d1e

 

Nothing new in vaccines you need yellow fever vaccine to go to Africa and in some area's of Indo cholera,  malaria , typhoid, most countries will introduce Covid 19 vaccine requirement anyway.

[eddysmit]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:27 AM, webfact said:

No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19
The Thaiger
 

OPINION

 

 

With the announcements this week about several vaccine candidate trials, either being completed or at the end of their Phase 3 testings, and the applications to government bodies for ‘emergency approval’, we now have to face the next question.

 

What restrictions will be imposed on those people who don’t have the vaccine, or even actively choose not to have the vaccine?

And more locally…

 

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Given the Thai Government’s low-risk strategy, well almost zero-risk strategy, and reluctance to take any chances with a second wave of Covid 19, it is highly likely there will be a stipulation that anyone entering Thailand will need a vaccine certificate or stamp in their passports.

Couple this with the Thai population’s continued fear of allowing foreigners back into the country at this time, in poll after poll, and it’s a safe bet there will be a “no vaccine, no entry” restriction imposed.

 

On a positive note, the Thai government may drop the 14 day quarantine for people that have had the vaccine (but not in the early days).

 

At this stage we know that most of the vaccine trials have had a 95% efficacy. We also know that the leading BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine needs an original jab plus a booster and has to be transported at extremely low temperature.

To complicate matters, there is not yet sufficient evidence that having had a bout of Covid-19, whether asymptomatic or not, guarantees you immunity. Or, if it does, for how long?

 

All these factors will mean that some level of quarantine will probably be in force as the Thai government slowly re-opens its borders to a wider groups of vaccinated travellers. This would remain in force until the world has a better knowledge of both the proven efficacy of the vaccine, or vaccines, and the re-infection rates.

 

So, even if we start getting groups of the world’s populations vaccinated before the end of the year, and that’s still a very big IF, there’s a lot more water to pass under the bridge until a coherent, reliable vaccine strategy can be understood and implemented.

 

Then there will be a rump of people, either hard core anti-vaxxers, or others who are at least skeptical of a new vaccine, who will want to wait or not want the vaccine at all. Public education, some strong science and a successful roll out of the early vaccines will be a key to winning over a lot of the world’s population.

 

Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality, it’s going to be one of the greatest public health challenges of all time, to reassure people about the science of vaccines and vaccination.

 

All this, in the middle of a pandemic that, for now, is still on the ascendency as far as new cases and deaths are concerned.

 

But there is little doubt rejoining the world of international travel, even local travel, could become restricted to only those who are vaccinated. The rest will be stuck roaming around their own countries, or states, for… years with a raft of restrictions on their lives. Who knows.

 

Will shopping centres or public buildings also impose a “no vaccine, no entry” policy? Hotels? Public buildings? Job applications?

 

On top of the economic stress which has fallen on a lot of the world, with so many governments now facing the headwinds of deep recession, the vaccine ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ will add even more public disquiet.

 

At this stage nobody is sure how the vaccine will be rolled out in Thailand. The Thai government has already signed up for several of the leading vaccine candidates and will most likely provide the vaccine for free to citizens under its public health system.

 

What does that mean for foreigners living here? If you are covered, with a work permit, under the country’s public health, are you able to get the vaccine for free too? Will the thousands of foreigners on private health insurance be covered?

 

Surely the insurers will want its customers to be vaccinated. Sick customers cost them money. So, will insurance renewals be limited to only people who have been vaccinated? Will visas be renewed only if you have been vaccinated?

 

At this stage there are no firm answers to any of these questions.

 

And then there is the SARS Cov2 virus (Covid-19) itself, a living virus which has the ability to mutate and adapt. Will these new vaccines be effective against all mutations? Again, this is all ahead of us.

 

We’re certainly now entering a new phase of this pandemic. New challenges, new questions. The rising numbers of cases throughout 2020 is only the first chapter of a book that will be many more years in the making.

 

Source: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/no-vaccine-no-entry-the-next-challenge-of-covid-19

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2020-11-24

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

Good article, but the vaccine results so far tested have an *UP* to ninety percent success result, for ninety odd percent of the people that would not die from the Covid disease. 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, elgenon said:

The question I have is: Does Thailand have the infrastructure to administer vaccines that need to be super cold? Issan too ?

I understand that it is only one of a range of vaccines about to become available that needs to be "super cold". The rest just require normal refrigeration.

[juice777]

17 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

Only if the vaccine has been thoroughly tested. Normally it takes 10 years at least to do that. So what corners have been cut?? Until they  have long term trials no one knows what possible side effects there are!

Read this

 

BBC News - Oxford vaccine: How did they make it so quickly?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Stoker58 said:

“Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality.....”

.

What a massively one sided article! Vaccines are dangerous things, even more so for older people and children, and should not be forced on anyone against their will.

You are quoting one vaccine but yes, one that quite clearly went wrong - no getting away from that although in fairness, you are using that to justify your theory that as you state 'Vaccines are dangerous things' - which is just plain wrong. What about the hundreds of vaccines that have save millions of lives since Edward Jenner formulated the first vaccine for Smallpox in 1796?

 

Its a question of risk and trust.  Science usually learns from its mistakes and the millions of lives that have been saved by vaccines are proof enough for me to trust in the science and take the risk.  Walking out of your house is a risk - only you can decide whether its a risk worth taking. However, the evidence against your statement is overwhelming. The countless millions that didn't die. The millions that can still walk, still see........etc. etc. etc. Your point is valid but insignificant when taken in context.

 

Nobody is likely to be forced to be vaccinated - at least in Western democracies but as others have pointed out, in the case of Covid 19, they may suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated by being denied entry to some countries etc.

Edited November 25, 2020 by KhaoYai

[Geoffggi]

18 hours ago, Traubert said:

Wrong.

Not wrong, they have only been approved in each individual countries.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, paulikens said:

it will be a complete joke if they still want you to quarantine if you have had the vaccine. 

But this unelected "PM" and his soldiers already are a complete joke except when it comes to lining their pockets.

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

But this unelected "PM" and his soldiers already are a complete joke except when it comes to lining their pockets.

Is there a vaccine against pocket lining sickness?

[TigerandDog]

17 hours ago, scorecard said:

 Are you sure that's what 'the aussie govt' said?

yep, it was in the news. They have stated that vaccination will not be mandatory BUT they are considering not allowing anyone who wants to travel internationally ( whether that be into Oz or out of Oz ) to do so with proof of vaccination. As I said, at the moment it is only under consideration.

[Stargeezr]

Well without the vaccine, look at all the international flights.  Are the airlines going to be

foolish to let just who ever wants to travel to fly with them, or will they all be cautious and say

get a vaccine or wear you mask and 14 days quarantine at your destination, if you do not. .  The people who

want to be anti vaxxers, let me know how the covid 19 sickness was for you when you contact

it and have to recover. I have seen enough news stories from people who have had this virus

and it is one that I never want to experience.    Canada will not be getting the vaccine for a while

yet, and now most of the country is getting the second wave and more people are getting sick.

The Alberta government has made stricter rules because the cases are rising. It seems that there

are enough people who are not cautious and are getting sick, that we may be in another lock down, if that is what 

it takes to get the covid numbers down.  The USA is still number one though and until their population

gets things under control, I am not travelling to that country.

Geezer

 

[Antiparovian]

Will your "Thai GF"  demand no Vaccine no entry?

[McAmp]

When a vaccine for Covid 19 is available, I feel pretty sure that most countries will require the traveler to be vaccinated before arrival. The same was true back in the 1970's, Small pox vaccination was mandatary before traveling to some countries and it was not a pandemic at that time. Would I have the vaccine if offered...yes.

 

[John Drake]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Retail in Bangkok?

Lots of things cost very little to produce them. But for the single customer at the end of the line they are a lot more expensive. And obviously someone has to inject that vaccine and will charge for that work.

 

I can just see the wonderful possibilities. Western made vaccines free for Thais, while farangs must pay for Chinese made vaccines only.

[ding]

A press release from a for-profit pharmaceutical firm, whose stock skyrocketted after the press release, and who funded/sponsored the study- is not a peer reviewed study. Not an independent randomized, double-blind control trial with a large n=.

 

If this article's speculation does come to pass it will be a long time before most people are vaccinated. I think it'll be a second path/requirement IF the AstraZeneca/Oxford non-mRNA vaccine is actually preventative.

 

Thailand is interested in not seeding SARS-CoV-2 into their country. I don't know enough about the three prime vaccine candidates to know if that's something that any of them do.

Edited November 25, 2020 by ding

[OneMoreFarang]

26 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I can just see the wonderful possibilities. Western made vaccines free for Thais, while farangs must pay for Chinese made vaccines only.

Why that?

If you go i.e. to Bumrungrad can you get only Chinese medicine? Or any medicine you like - as long as you pay for it.

[Kraig62]

Should be “No vaccine, No worries!”

[Nanaplaza666]

I dont hear anybody talking about the first groups that will be vaccinated , many countries will choose the most vaulnarable groups first , elderly, high risk persons that already have underlying illness etc . So those are not really people that will travel or go on a holliday to thailand . And every country doesn't habe enough vaccines to vaccinate the whole population to begin with so i don't think the no vaccine no entry rule will be a lot differen't to the nr of tourists that are allowed to enter on this very moment . If that rule comes it will take many months before tourists can come back in by the nr's they are hoping for as it will take momths before they have enough vaccines all over the world to vaccinate eberybody . As other people are saying , people that have a chance to vaccinate but choose not to, ok up to them , then they shouldn't be allowed to enter .