Do real estate agents always get a commission?

[OneMoreFarang]

I am thinking about buying a "used" condominium in Bangkok.

In the moment I want to get the facts right. I don't have any specific unit in mind.

 

I know lots of real estate agents try to sell condominiums to get a commission. And I think that is fair when they do their job.

 

How about this situation:

There is one or several agents who try to sell a condominium. And maybe they advertise the unit on their websites.

But what is the situation if I ignore the agent and I contact the owner directly? Is the owner still able to sell the unit without giving a commission to any agent?

Or are there (in some cases) binding contracts with the agent that the owner (and buyer?) has to pay a commission to the agent even if they talk to each other directly without any agent ever being involved.

 

The situation happens i.e. if I know a person in the building who knows the owner of the unit which I like to buy.

[xylophone]

Whilst it may seem straightforward that you would be able to buy a condo direct from the owner, there could be a few strings attached...........

 

Sometimes the owner of the condo will sign an agreement with a particular agent giving that agent the right to commission if the condo is sold, this especially if the condo is advertised on their website. If it is advertised on other websites, then often agents will have an agreement between them as to who gets what as regards commission.

 

It is a bit of a maze, and I'm not sure what an agent could do if you bought directly from the owner, although as I said, if the owner has signed an agreement, then he is obligated to pay the agent commission – – but getting it may be a different matter!

[Surelynot]

As I understand it the seller stands all the commission costs owed to the Estate Agent........things could get nasty if the Estate Agent finds they have been cut out of the loop..........I would be wary of doing as you suggest.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Surelynot

[rumak]

i am pretty sure you are going to get this answer from most guys here:

 

The SELLER  almost always    always    pays whatever commission there is when agent(S) sell the property.

 

don't offer anything !

[Surelynot]

Just to add to my post.....we looked at the same apartment with two different agents.....(long story)......we went ahead, without thinking about it, with the second agent......all hell broke loose.....they all know each other and exactly who is doing what.......

 

We were told in no uncertain terms to go with the the first agent and the second agent begged us to explain that he hadn't tried anything on and he apologized profusely to the first agent.......

[rumak]

surely not gives you a good example.    sometimes i am surprised that you do not understand ( not a put down...just you seem to have good sense)  how things Thailand work.

keep everything as SIMPLE as possible.    don't get in situations which might be considered you being devious or whatever.     Learn what you can from sources  outside of those you will be dealing with. (this INCLUDES,   or excludes,   family members) 

 

buying something is very simple.   offer a price ,  write your own contract ( RE agents and lawyers will not be working for YOU ) .     It is a buyers market now.   

If you are not confident,  find someone you trust to help.   You go to Land Office.   Seller signs over ownership.    Buyer hands seller a cashiers check.  

well,  thats how i do it......buying or selling

 

and..... any sign of BS     walk away

[xylophone]

Yes, as I and others have said, the seller pays the agent the commission, so as regards commission, you are not in the loop.

 

However if the seller understands that he is "obligated" to pay the agent his commission, then that may lessen your chances of being able to get the apartment at a discounted rate, if that's what you were hoping.

[Surelynot]

8 minutes ago, rumak said:

don't get in situations which might be considered you being devious

That is the 'killer'.......just not worth it......certainly not over here.

[Antonymous]

 

It depends on the type of contract the seller has entered into with the agent/agents and these contracts are negotiable.

 

For example, whenever I have sold properties the contracts I have with agents always state that if they (that agent) presents the property to their client (the potential buyer who has approached the agent initially) and if that prospect goes on to buy my property, the agent is due their commission. Totally fair.

 

However this type of contract allows the seller to do his own marketing and if he hooks a buyer that had never contacted the agent, the seller is not obligated to pay any commission to the agent. This is also fair.

 

Some contracts are not like this. If the agency has an exclusive contract (sole agent) they may state that the agent is due a commission when the property is sold, regardless of how the buyer was introduced. An agent who clearly identifies the specific location of the property in their advertising will want this type of contract so as to prevent a situation where a prospect sees the advert and then goes to look at the property independently. It is only fair to the agent in this situation.

 

The grey area is when there are multiple agents selling the same property AND the seller is also doing their own marketing. Very tricky to arrange a sensible commission that is fair to all parties.

 

 

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

That is the 'killer'.......just not worth it......certainly not over here.

 

Lots of accurate posts about multiple agents getting a cut etc., etc.

 

Also in the picture, property agents in LOS are no better than many in other countries, they are not averse to complex dirty dealings. I'm aware of one farang property agent in an Eastern city who is an crooked as they come and has no hesitation to tell lies about property and other laws all for his personal benefit.

 

In Thailand if you talk to a property agent many will quickly insist that you sign a contract with them. In the fine print it will very likely say that they get a full commission regardless of who actually sells the property and even if it's an 'accidental' meeting of actual seller and actual buyer, and regardless whether they have been involved in any way. And the contract has no end date (in itself prohibited by law in many countries).

 

A twist of was a case which became national news perhaps 25 years ago, when the new boss of the LTO in a large Eastern province declared that she was entitled to a good commission on every sale which was processed through the LTO in terms of processing chanuts and other types of land title documents.

 

The new boss was the upstart ruthless daughter of an old style scaly political family and she made it clear she was special and entitled and was allowed to make new rules for the LTO she now managed.

 

She was moved on.

[Peterw42]

Exclusive agency agreements (only one agent can sell etc) are pretty rare (as a seller, why would you limit yourself to one agent), the seller is usually free to sell directly or through an agent, and multiple agents are free to sell. Most of the time a property is in the hands of 6-8 different people and whoever puts buyer in touch with seller gets a cut.

Real estate agents dont really exist in the western sense, There is no formal agent qualification or license ,anyone can broker a deal and get a cut.

Agents who have never even met the seller will sometimes list a property.

You could literally make a website tomorrow and start listing properties, any property that's for sale..  That's often how it works, someone calls themselves an agent, lists a property they have seen for sale, if they get an enquiry they then contact the seller or other agent and negotiate a commission. Lots of Thais, from the security guy at a condo block, through to agents with shopfronts, are all part of what is a very informal system.

 

Either way, any commission paid is nothing to do with the buyer.

[OneMoreFarang]

Thanks for all your replies.

When I understand this correct then it seems depending on the contract it might be that the seller has to pay a commission to the agent even if the agent was not involved with the person who actually buys the unit.

That's what I wanted to know. If the seller actually pays or not is up to the seller. As far as I am concerned the seller should act according to the contract he signed.

 

58 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

As I understand it the seller stands all the commission costs owed to the Estate Agent........things could get nasty if the Estate Agent finds they have been cut out of the loop..........I would be wary of doing as you suggest.

 

It is not my intention to cut anybody out of the loop. If I never talked to any agent and I don't have the information from the website of an agent then the agent was never involved - and not cut out of the loop.

I know an agent who is very active in the building were I currently live. Somehow she seems to think everything that is sold in that building has to be her business. But that is obviously BS. As far as I see it she is only involved if the seller or the buyer signed an exclusive contract with her. If the seller and buyer meet without her why should she get a commission?

 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If I never talked to any agent and I don't have the information from the website of an agent then the agent was never involved - and not cut out of the loop.

I would agree wholeheartedly, but as you go on to say, they don't see it that way.......facts/truth etc don't seem to have much bearing on the matter.....it is their perception that is the be all and end all......but good luck anyway.

 

Flat warming party?......Just drop me a line when and where.

[digibum]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for all your replies.

When I understand this correct then it seems depending on the contract it might be that the seller has to pay a commission to the agent even if the agent was not involved with the person who actually buys the unit.

That's what I wanted to know. If the seller actually pays or not is up to the seller. As far as I am concerned the seller should act according to the contract he signed.

 

Rather than trying to cut people out of the deal, I would approach this from a different perspective. 

 

The seller pays the agent for the listing.  The agent would typically split the commission with the agent that brought them a buyer.  If you don't use an agent as a buyer, negotiate with the agent on lowering their fee and getting the savings passed on to you via the seller's price. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It is not my intention to cut anybody out of the loop. If I never talked to any agent and I don't have the information from the website of an agent then the agent was never involved - and not cut out of the loop.

 

17 minutes ago, digibum said:

Rather than trying to cut people out of the deal, I would approach this from a different perspective. 

 

I don't intend to cut anybody out of the deal. Is that really so difficult to understand?

[smutcakes]

How do you even intend on contacting the owner directly if its on a website? In most cases if an agent is involved they will leave the agents contact details not the owners.

 

Anyway its the Sellers responsibility to pay the agent in 99.999% of the cases. Make contact through the agent and let the seller handle it.

[digibum]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't intend to cut anybody out of the deal. Is that really so difficult to understand?

 

Hmmm, I don't know, maybe it's the way you keep bringing up going around people. 

 

46 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If I never talked to any agent and I don't have the information from the website of an agent then the agent was never involved - and not cut out of the loop.

 

47 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But that is obviously BS. As far as I see it she is only involved if the seller or the buyer signed an exclusive contract with her. If the seller and buyer meet without her why should she get a commission?

 

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But what is the situation if I ignore the agent and I contact the owner directly?

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

There are no contract between owner and agents.

Most owners use multiple agents and sometimes agents work together as co-agents. Whoever does the sale gets the 3% commission. 

If you contact the owner direct, say from  FB Group or through Juristic Person, then you can negotiate direct and no commission is paid.

What are u looking for? Only Sukhumvit Suite?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Never Use Agents

Contact Owners Direct

Online Search for Shortlist

Site Visits for Direct Owner Contact

Seller Pays Commission BUT assume they will pass that cost on to Buyer through Sale Price

Commissions in Phuket are now Ridiculously High (another reason to avoid Agents). Minimum 5% to 20% for ( common) Distress Sales ( such property selling at roughly half pre- covid price here)

Another way is Introduction Fee of say 250k for 15 mill villa or 50k for 2 mill condos, legally payable upon successful sale completion only.

NEVER sign Agents Contracts without Independent Legal Advice

In fact getting Legal Advice is First Step in House Search

Some Agent Contracts get commission ONLY for introduction

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am thinking about buying a "used" condominium in Bangkok.

In the moment I want to get the facts right. I don't have any specific unit in mind.

 

I know lots of real estate agents try to sell condominiums to get a commission. And I think that is fair when they do their job.

 

How about this situation:

There is one or several agents who try to sell a condominium. And maybe they advertise the unit on their websites.

But what is the situation if I ignore the agent and I contact the owner directly? Is the owner still able to sell the unit without giving a commission to any agent?

Or are there (in some cases) binding contracts with the agent that the owner (and buyer?) has to pay a commission to the agent even if they talk to each other directly without any agent ever being involved.

 

The situation happens i.e. if I know a person in the building who knows the owner of the unit which I like to buy.

 

We are selling our house... Numerous agents have contacted us (my Wife and I) under various pretences, such as pretending to be an interested buyer, as an agent with an interested customer... both obvious lies. 

 

We have also had agents contact us and ask to be the sole agent and sign a contract, we have of course said no. 

 

 

We have listed our property on Facebook Market place, we have also seen property webpages where a agent has lifted my Facebook Market place photos and are presenting them as their own. 

 

None of this bothers me much.

 

 

IF someone contacts my Wife or I our first question is are you a the potential buyer or are you and agent or buying for someone else ?

 

Someone interested to purchase and contacting via an advert (i.e. from Facebook Marketplace) should always ask ‘are you the owner’ or 'are you an agent’ or ‘are you selling on behalf of someone else’..... 

 

 

IF going through an agent the agent expects to take 3% of the sale. 

IF going direct to an owner, no one else gets anything from the sale, even if ‘other agents’ list the property there is no way they can prove the same came from their site as the same property is often listed multiple times and the owner will / may have also listed the property themselves.

 

 

Thus: On adverts such as Facebook Market place look for comments which state ’Sale by Owner’ (not an agent).

 

 

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Agent wanted 5% to introduce potential Buyer.

I said thats 750k on my asking 15 mill.... for doing really nothing... no way

thinking no way some chancer like you is taking any more than 250k intro fee......even if I put the 5% in any sale price...... just couldn’t do that at all.....

I said i am not advertising to sell

and any Buyer can easily contact me directly by a knock the door

or leaving a message in my mail box

that approach also puts Seller in stronger sale position

thinking also that if people have come to my nine villa complex to look at other places there, they can easily contact any other resident owner like myself whilst there so no agent need be involved for my place......

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

whoa......big time eye opener ........so there can be NO AGENT  CONTROL by Anyone in fact....... unacceptable........

and Buyers are definitely impacted negatively by Agents so as a Buyer I would also require the below No Agents condition..... otherwise walk away....

can be multiple first tier agents plus unlimited second / third etc tier sub agents...... all with commission claims on Seller....unless buying off plan directly with trusted developer as I did.......any non- developer sales adverts must clearly state

“Owner Direct Sale to Direct Buyer ONLY —- NO AGENTS.... NO COMMISSIONS”

“Property Viewing Discussions have No Legal Force“

The respective Lawyers can handle any post -viewing progress in writing.

Unwritten Option still to offer small defined legal contract for Introduction Fee to Direct Local Acquaitances who introduce Completed Buyer ( “ putting the word around” )..........

 

now if you are a Non- Resident Owner Seller ( Out of Province) you would have to carefully appoint  a Single Exclusive Agent such as a trusted Realtor or Lawyer.......I did that successfully ten years ago......

 

Complex Important Subject .........Positive Comments Most Welcome !

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:39 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

t seems depending on the contract it might be that the seller has to pay a commission to the agent even if the agent was not involved with the person who actually buys the unit.

That's what I wanted to know. If the seller actually pays or not is up to the seller.

If you are the buyer, it should not matter to you what the seller does... if he has an exclusive contact w/the agent then he will pay... but it is not a transaction that you are involved in... you make the offer you want and pay that amt... 

[1FinickyOne]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:04 PM, richard_smith237 said:

We have listed our property on Facebook Market place, we have also seen property webpages where a agent has lifted my Facebook Market place photos and are presenting them as their own. 

 

None of this bothers me much

I think that would bother me, but of course, if they get you your price or something acceptable and you sell your home, ok..

 

In these times of covid, have you had many potential buyers off facebook? 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I think that would bother me, but of course, if they get you your price or something acceptable and you sell your home, ok..

 

In these times of covid, have you had many potential buyers off facebook? 

 

 

Nope... We’re contacted about once every couple of weeks by a ‘buyer’...  but we can quickly tell by their questions that its someone who has decided to ‘try’ and be the middle-man (woman)....   

 

So no... Over the past year we have not had any serious interest or people looking to ‘buy’ our property. 

 

We don’t ‘need to sell’ and are happy living here, but will sell to an interesting party if we are offered a reasonable price. I can’t see this happening any time soon.

 

 

 

[connda]

I didn't even know that Thailand had Real Estate agencies. 
Do they operate primarily in cities?  Are they as numerous as the West?  And what are the commissions? In the US it used to be 3% for the lister and 3% for the seller. 
Just curious if I ever need to sell.  If the wife passes before me, I may want to sell the house and property and leave Thailand.  The only reason I stay is to support my wife.  When the wife goes, I don't have a reason to stay.

[chilly07]

My experience is that so called agents do little more than drive around collecting phone numbers, pretend they have a buyer and  have no agreement with the seller so all you have to do is drive round and make contact directly. Also if the seller has to pay the agent they will make sure the price paid covers the fee so you will pay more. Same with renting. 

[ChipButty]

You should come to Phuket everybody is an agent, but in recent times the Real estate offices have closed down and bye the way it's 5% commission on a sale and 10% on rental property

[ChipButty]

32 minutes ago, connda said:

I didn't even know that Thailand had Real Estate agencies. 
Do they operate primarily in cities?  Are they as numerous as the West?  And what are the commissions? In the US it used to be 3% for the lister and 3% for the seller. 
Just curious if I ever need to sell.  If the wife passes before me, I may want to sell the house and property and leave Thailand.  The only reason I stay is to support my wife.  When the wife goes, I don't have a reason to stay.

You need to get out more

[Travel Dude]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:38 AM, Russell17au said:

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On 5/3/2021 at 4:10 AM, RichardColeman said:

I do not think restrictions are the issue. The issue is the never ending length of restrictions and being unable to plan positively for the end of them as you have no end date for return to normality.

 

 

 

On 5/4/2021 at 11:42 AM, Surelynot said:

Just to add to my post.....we looked at the same apartment with two different agents.....(long story)......we went ahead, without thinking about it, with the second agent......all hell broke loose.....they all know each other and exactly who is doing what.......

 

We were told in no uncertain terms to go with the the first agent and the second agent begged us to explain that he hadn't tried anything on and he apologized profusely to the first agent.......

It's really nasty of you to go with an agent and then go through with the 2nd agent. How do you think agents make a living and feed their family? Shame on you to be so inconsiderate.